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Pve Discussion - Every Class has 2 burst heals. Nightblade 0 - Game Imbalance
Lab3360
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Dark Cloak should remain unchanged as a burst heal
The proposed change on pts is duplicative. Nightblade already has a heal over time skill which does the exact samething in funnel health and swallow souls.(minus protection).
By eliminating Nightblade burst heal, this change also eliminates Nightblade the ability to tank in pvp but especially in pve.
Here are some facts regarding Nightblade burst heals vs other classes burst heal access.
Templar - Breath of Life
Templar - Hasty Prayer
DK - Green Dragons Blood
DK - Stone Fist
Warden - Enchanted Growth
Warden - Budding Seeds
Sorc - Clanfere
Sorc - Matriarch
Nightblade - Nill
Every other classes have 2 burst heals, whereas Nightblade will not have a single one as is on pts
Please explain how eliminating Nightblades only burst heal is balance and brings Nightblade within alignment with other classes by making them the only class with no access to burst heal while every single other class has access to 2 or more burst heals.
Again, the change on pts eliminates Nightblade as a tank role.
Dark Cloak should remain unchanged as a burst heal
Edited by Lab3360 on April 20, 2019 7:48AM The proposed change on pts is duplicative. Nightblade already has a heal over time skill which does the exact samething in funnel health and swallow souls.(minus protection).
By eliminating Nightblade burst heal, this change also eliminates Nightblade the ability to tank in pvp but especially in pve.
Here are some facts regarding Nightblade burst heals vs other classes burst heal access.
Templar - Breath of Life
Templar - Hasty Prayer
DK - Green Dragons Blood
DK - Stone Fist
Warden - Enchanted Growth
Warden - Budding Seeds
Sorc - Clanfere
Sorc - Matriarch
Nightblade - Nill
Every other classes have 2 burst heals, whereas Nightblade will not have a single one as is on pts
Please explain how eliminating Nightblades only burst heal is balance and brings Nightblade within alignment with other classes by making them the only class with no access to burst heal while every single other class has access to 2 or more burst heals.
Again, the change on pts eliminates Nightblade as a tank role.
Dark Cloak should remain unchanged as a burst heal
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NordSwordnBoard✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭If you had to double bar your burst heal, would you want it back?Fear is the Mindkiller27 -
Casterial✭✭✭✭✭
✭Nightblade is getting a heal, and also has the ability to spam stealth and heal in stealth.
Now if they couldn't heal in stealth like you can't regain stamina while blocking, but gave them a good heal. I'd vouch for it.Daggerfall Covenant:Casterial Stamplar || Casterial DK || Availed NB || Castyrial Sorc || Spooky Casterial Necro
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For the Daggerfall Covenant
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jypcy✭✭✭✭✭NordSwordnBoard wrote: »If you had to double bar your burst heal, would you want it back?
Sure, I do that on my tankblade already lol2 -
rotaugen454✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Red apples are red and oranges aren’t. Produce imbalance!"Get off my lawn!"1 -
Insco851✭✭✭✭✭
✭Nightblade is getting a heal, and also has the ability to spam stealth and heal in stealth.
Now if they couldn't heal in stealth like you can't regain stamina while blocking, but gave them a good heal. I'd vouch for it.
Heal in stealth!
You realize that is exactly the problem right? Pigeonholing every Blade into a cloak spamming Uber-hated spec?
And in theory you have a case, it makes sense on paper... but open world pvp where aoe is king... you are ripped from stealth repeatedly- and again, this pigeonholes then into attack and run class... or just run... to another better equipped toon to play open world.4 -
ItsNebula✭✭✭✭✭Nightblade has...
Very cheap ult that’s WAY to powerful and gives way to much.
Cloak.
Fear.
Very powerful spamable
Massive burst
TLDR; cry me a ocean20 -
Casterial✭✭✭✭✭
✭Nightblade is getting a heal, and also has the ability to spam stealth and heal in stealth.
Now if they couldn't heal in stealth like you can't regain stamina while blocking, but gave them a good heal. I'd vouch for it.
Heal in stealth!
You realize that is exactly the problem right? Pigeonholing every Blade into a cloak spamming Uber-hated spec?
And in theory you have a case, it makes sense on paper... but open world pvp where aoe is king... you are ripped from stealth repeatedly- and again, this pigeonholes then into attack and run class... or just run... to another better equipped toon to play open world.
I said COULDNT heal in stealth, NB is just a funky class... I think this approach they're doing is good, but a little aggressive.Daggerfall Covenant:Casterial Stamplar || Casterial DK || Availed NB || Castyrial Sorc || Spooky Casterial Necro
Member since: August 2013
Kill Counter Developer
For the Daggerfall Covenant
The Last Chillrend Empress
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Lab3360✭✭✭✭✭Nightblade is getting a heal, and also has the ability to spam stealth and heal in stealth.
Now if they couldn't heal in stealth like you can't regain stamina while blocking, but gave them a good heal. I'd vouch for it.
Youre talking pvp. There is more to the game than pvp. Most of the population is on pve. Which is another reason this change is not good. It will effectively eliminate Nightblade tanks. Thats not balance.
I dont know that you have ever tanked before. But its inplauable to tank endgame content with only a coupe of HOTs.
Tanks need a burst heal to survive.
Spamming 2 Hots will not recover 33k health in 2 seconds considering ground aoe, enviormental damage, damage from adds, and a bosses 2nd or 3rd hit within a 2 second period.
Edited by Lab3360 on April 19, 2019 6:13PM4 -
Casterial✭✭✭✭✭
✭Nightblade is getting a heal, and also has the ability to spam stealth and heal in stealth.
Now if they couldn't heal in stealth like you can't regain stamina while blocking, but gave them a good heal. I'd vouch for it.
Youre talking pvp. There is more to the game than pvp. Most of the population is on pve. Which is another reason this change is not good. It will effectively eliminate Nightblade tanks. Thats not balance.
I dont know that you have ever tanked before. But its inplauable to tank endgame content with only a couole of HOTs.
Tanks need a burst heal to survive.
True, it does greatly affect PVE, which is a MUCH bigger majority of the game. Harms build diversityDaggerfall Covenant:Casterial Stamplar || Casterial DK || Availed NB || Castyrial Sorc || Spooky Casterial Necro
Member since: August 2013
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Lab3360✭✭✭✭✭rotaugen454 wrote: »Red apples are red and oranges aren’t. Produce imbalance!
Great analogy. They are both fruit and have some of the same benefits. Fructose, packed with antioxidents and vitamins and are a source of calories.
They are not imbalanced at all2 -
Lab3360✭✭✭✭✭Nightblade is getting a heal, and also has the ability to spam stealth and heal in stealth.
Now if they couldn't heal in stealth like you can't regain stamina while blocking, but gave them a good heal. I'd vouch for it.
Heal in stealth!
You realize that is exactly the problem right? Pigeonholing every Blade into a cloak spamming Uber-hated spec?
And in theory you have a case, it makes sense on paper... but open world pvp where aoe is king... you are ripped from stealth repeatedly- and again, this pigeonholes then into attack and run class... or just run... to another better equipped toon to play open world.
That heal did nothing for dps. You need high health for a spammer to benefit.1 -
Lab3360✭✭✭✭✭Nightblade is getting a heal, and also has the ability to spam stealth and heal in stealth.
Now if they couldn't heal in stealth like you can't regain stamina while blocking, but gave them a good heal. I'd vouch for it.
I think that would be a viable option.
I totally agree. But allow them to use vigor or another source heal..
Im not a big pvper. My focus is mainly on pve. I just know how much this change impacts pve tanks.0 -
Lab3360✭✭✭✭✭Nightblade is getting a heal, and also has the ability to spam stealth and heal in stealth.
Now if they couldn't heal in stealth like you can't regain stamina while blocking, but gave them a good heal. I'd vouch for it.
Youre talking pvp. There is more to the game than pvp. Most of the population is on pve. Which is another reason this change is not good. It will effectively eliminate Nightblade tanks. Thats not balance.
I dont know that you have ever tanked before. But its inplauable to tank endgame content with only a couole of HOTs.
Tanks need a burst heal to survive.
True, it does greatly affect PVE, which is a MUCH bigger majority of the game. Harms build diversity
It really does. There has been lack of oversite on this subject0 -
Casterial✭✭✭✭✭
✭Nightblade is getting a heal, and also has the ability to spam stealth and heal in stealth.
Now if they couldn't heal in stealth like you can't regain stamina while blocking, but gave them a good heal. I'd vouch for it.
Youre talking pvp. There is more to the game than pvp. Most of the population is on pve. Which is another reason this change is not good. It will effectively eliminate Nightblade tanks. Thats not balance.
I dont know that you have ever tanked before. But its inplauable to tank endgame content with only a couole of HOTs.
Tanks need a burst heal to survive.
True, it does greatly affect PVE, which is a MUCH bigger majority of the game. Harms build diversity
It really does. There has been lack of oversite on this subject
My pre-order case of ESO says "Play any class, any race, anyway you want." haha, I was a foolDaggerfall Covenant:Casterial Stamplar || Casterial DK || Availed NB || Castyrial Sorc || Spooky Casterial Necro
Member since: August 2013
Kill Counter Developer
For the Daggerfall Covenant
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Casterial✭✭✭✭✭
✭Donny_Vito wrote: »Cant you just use Vigor like everyone else?
Vigor is getting nerfed to not stack, so if anyone else uses it, its useless being slotted in that dungeon/trial.Daggerfall Covenant:Casterial Stamplar || Casterial DK || Availed NB || Castyrial Sorc || Spooky Casterial Necro
Member since: August 2013
Kill Counter Developer
For the Daggerfall Covenant
The Last Chillrend Empress
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Royalthought✭✭✭✭✭Nightblade has...
Very cheap ult that’s WAY to powerful and gives way to much.
Cloak.
Fear.
Very powerful spamable
Massive burst
TLDR; cry me a ocean
The ult gives minor mangle and a damage boost on pts. What makes that too much/powerful?
Thier spammable only has a 5% pen debuff and it wont happen if youre facing them.
Besides those two, nothing else you mentioned does damage. Is there some other ability they get "massive burst" from? Especially, regarding tanks.5 -
Lab3360✭✭✭✭✭Nightblade is getting a heal, and also has the ability to spam stealth and heal in stealth.
Now if they couldn't heal in stealth like you can't regain stamina while blocking, but gave them a good heal. I'd vouch for it.
Heal in stealth!
You realize that is exactly the problem right? Pigeonholing every Blade into a cloak spamming Uber-hated spec?
And in theory you have a case, it makes sense on paper... but open world pvp where aoe is king... you are ripped from stealth repeatedly- and again, this pigeonholes then into attack and run class... or just run... to another better equipped toon to play open world.
I said COULDNT heal in stealth, NB is just a funky class... I think this approach they're doing is good, but a little aggressive.
I think not being able to heal in stealth is a little harsh. I would agree with maybe not using certain skills in stealth. Stealth does not provide the protection that Mist form does which is 75% damage reduction but you cant heal. Stealth provides no protection and can still take damage.Edited by Lab3360 on April 19, 2019 6:33PM0 -
Casterial✭✭✭✭✭
✭Nightblade is getting a heal, and also has the ability to spam stealth and heal in stealth.
Now if they couldn't heal in stealth like you can't regain stamina while blocking, but gave them a good heal. I'd vouch for it.
Heal in stealth!
You realize that is exactly the problem right? Pigeonholing every Blade into a cloak spamming Uber-hated spec?
And in theory you have a case, it makes sense on paper... but open world pvp where aoe is king... you are ripped from stealth repeatedly- and again, this pigeonholes then into attack and run class... or just run... to another better equipped toon to play open world.
I said COULDNT heal in stealth, NB is just a funky class... I think this approach they're doing is good, but a little aggressive.
I think not being able to heal in stealth is a lottle harsh. I would agree with maybe not using certain skills in stealth. Stralth does not provide the protection that Mist form does whichbis 75% damage reduction but you cant heal. Stealth provides no protection and can still take damage.
Good insight, this is true... Shade + stealth is the most annoying combo tho hahaDaggerfall Covenant:Casterial Stamplar || Casterial DK || Availed NB || Castyrial Sorc || Spooky Casterial Necro
Member since: August 2013
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Lab3360✭✭✭✭✭Donny_Vito wrote: »Cant you just use Vigor like everyone else?
Vigor is not a burst heal. It is a hot and scales more from weapon damage. Tanks dont need weapon damage. Weapon damage is for dps which is why alot of stam dps use Vigor. Also vigor would not be a reolacement for burst heal needed for pve tanksEdited by Lab3360 on April 19, 2019 6:33PM2 -
Raudgrani✭✭✭✭✭
✭Nightblade is getting a heal, and also has the ability to spam stealth and heal in stealth.
Now if they couldn't heal in stealth like you can't regain stamina while blocking, but gave them a good heal. I'd vouch for it.
How do you heal in stealth as a magblade? Curious for real. Mutagen? There's hardly any kind of burst heal available as far as I can see. And what are we getting? Oh, yes. A pretty strong self heal, just requiring you to hit any enemy FIVE times, and then spend magicka to fire a slow dodgeable projectile to hit the enemy for healing. Well that's GREAT! Magblades will be very OP with this new feature, I can't wait.
Healing Ward pulls you out of stealth (and it's not instant), so does Combat Prayer. What are we left with? Nothing. Not for any sort of burst heal at the very least. Swallow Soul requires that you announce your presence, and is probably comparable to Forward Momentum's heal at best - except you can't remove snares with it too.
EDIT: And yeah, "heal in stealth" alone isn't a problem. But trying to heal up when you got half a zerg looking for you, and you have several different bleeds, burning status (typically on a vampire - yay!), poison ticking on, Haunting Curse and Power of the Light boiling on your a**, tell me how unfair and OP cloak is. Merely looking angrily in your general direction breaks cloak you know.Edited by Raudgrani on April 19, 2019 6:36PM5 -
Casterial✭✭✭✭✭
✭Nightblade is getting a heal, and also has the ability to spam stealth and heal in stealth.
Now if they couldn't heal in stealth like you can't regain stamina while blocking, but gave them a good heal. I'd vouch for it.
How do you heal in stealth as a magblade? Curious for real. Mutagen? There's hardly any kind of burst heal available as far as I can see. And what are we getting? Oh, yes. A pretty strong self heal, just requiring you to hit any enemy FIVE times, and then spend magicka to fire a slow dodgeable projectile to hit the enemy for healing. Well that's GREAT! Magblades will be very OP with this new feature, I can't wait.
Healing Ward pulls you out of stealth (and it's not instant), so does Combat Prayer. What are we left with? Nothing. Not for any sort of burst heal at the very least. Swallow Soul requires that you announce your presence, and is probably comparable to Forward Momentum's heal at best - except you can't remove snares with it too.
Magblade still a thing? Wasn't it trashed?
lol, no I kid. But, most NBs do all their heals pre-stealth when low, then come out at 50%+ in the 3 second time frame. (Usually they reenter right after to) Daggerfall Covenant:Casterial Stamplar || Casterial DK || Availed NB || Castyrial Sorc || Spooky Casterial Necro
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Jhalin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Donny_Vito wrote: »Cant you just use Vigor like everyone else?
Vigor is getting nerfed to not stack, so if anyone else uses it, its useless being slotted in that dungeon/trial.
@Casterial Haven’t found any evidence of this is any patch notes thus far. Do you have a source for this?3 -
Lab3360✭✭✭✭✭Royalthought wrote: »Nightblade has...
Very cheap ult that’s WAY to powerful and gives way to much.
Cloak.
Fear.
Very powerful spamable
Massive burst
TLDR; cry me a ocean
The ult gives minor mangle and a damage boost on pts. What makes that too much/powerful?
Thier spammable only has a 5% pen debuff and it wont happen if youre facing them.
Besides those two, nothing else you mentioned does damage. Is there some other ability they get "massive burst" from? Especially, regarding tanks.
Not at all. The 2 you mention are good examples of Hots. They will not burst a tank in pve either at all against a single target boss.
Very ineffectiveEdited by Lab3360 on April 19, 2019 6:47PM0 -
Casterial✭✭✭✭✭
✭Donny_Vito wrote: »Cant you just use Vigor like everyone else?
Vigor is getting nerfed to not stack, so if anyone else uses it, its useless being slotted in that dungeon/trial.
@Casterial Haven’t found any evidence of this is any patch notes thus far. Do you have a source for this?
Possibly they removed it, but this was to keep it in line with all skills which don't stack
This was the video, but I can't find it anymore: www twitch tv/videos/402688127Edited by Casterial on April 19, 2019 6:41PMDaggerfall Covenant:Casterial Stamplar || Casterial DK || Availed NB || Castyrial Sorc || Spooky Casterial Necro
Member since: August 2013
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Lab3360✭✭✭✭✭Nightblade has...
Very cheap ult that’s WAY to powerful and gives way to much.
Cloak.
Fear.
Very powerful spamable
Massive burst
TLDR; cry me a ocean
Please explain how any of what you stated benefits a pve Nightblade tank in endgame content against an individual boss?
Fear - You cannot fear bosses
Cloak - why would tank cloak a boss
What Utli are you refering. You didnt say.
Massive Bust heal. Which heal are you speaking because the pts heal is not massive nor bursty. Its HOT.
Also you mentioned a very spammabke massive burdt heal in the same breath with a Stealth. The skill shadowy disquise which puts you in stealth or invisibility is a morph which you choose with Shadowy disquise (Stealth) or Dark Cloak (I think the spammable massive heal you are refering to which inly works for high health tanks).
Please explain. We need to hear you.
Edited by Lab3360 on April 19, 2019 6:54PM3
