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ZoS purges, dots, and "unhealthy gameplay"

Wing
Wing
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this is an interesting gameplay loop that is pretty crappy atm, as you cannot really buff or nerf a side without people being angry (and for good reason)

for instance, dots, many classes have them, many would like to use them, however bleeds fall into this category, generally people hate bleeds (as like oblivion damage it bypasses mitigation in an effort to "fight tanky players" as a result tanks still laugh at it and it nukes low health players)

you also have debuffs, major defile being the big hated one. so people want to be able to purge bleeds, and debuffs like defile

but dot heavy players don't want their damage nerfed (such non bleed dot heavy classes like magicka DK) also understandable


so, what do?

1) we need better options for killing tanks that don't also just flat out destroy anyone not a tank (something current bleeds / poisons / oblivion damage does) more abilities or sets that offer:

-%health damage *such as knight slayer*
-or perhaps some form of %resistance damage (for instance we have a set that gives health recovery based on sum resistances, what if we had a set or ability that did DAMAGE to the target based on their sum resistances)

these ideas by design do consistent damage to the target based on how tanky they are, doing less damage to squishy targets, and more damage to tanky targets without doing overbearing amounts of damage to either. this would be the only damage I would consider making "oblivion"

2) no dot should be "oblivion" or bypass all resistances, all dots should be a form of actual damage such as physical, magical, fire, poison, etc. that can be dealt with normally.

3) no dot should be able to be purged (OMG WHAT!!!) with dots reduced to doing consistent damage over time and bleeds removed there should be no reason to nerf this particular style of play with one end all be all effect. (note some / all skills might need to be re tuned with this in mind)

4) purge effects only purge actual negative status effects (such as maim, defile, fracture, breach, mangle, etc.) and more sources of purge can now be added to the game WITHOUT negating dot builds. this would also make abilities that only cleanse a limited number of effects do better at cleansing ACTUAL status effects rather then having to cast it 3-4 times


so, what do we end up with?
a healthy and consistent gameplay experience across the board with multiple build paths depending on the style of play or the kind of targets you need to deal with without double dipping and being over bearing on other particular playstyles.

@ZOS_Gilliam @ZOS_BrianWheeler
Edited by Wing on April 18, 2019 10:38AM
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  • DisgracefulMind
    DisgracefulMind
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    It would be a DK asking for DoTs to be unpurgeable xD
    Unfortunate magicka warden main.
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  • Wing
    Wing
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    It would be a DK asking for DoTs to be unpurgeable xD

    I play a stam DK and only make use of venomous claw.

    however EVERY class has dots (sans sorc iirc) or access to them through weapon skill lines. but attacking a health gameplay balance because your what? scared of magicka DK's?
    ESO player since beta.
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  • Ahzek
    Ahzek
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    As a stam sorc with a crazy one DoT in total in my current build, i like the ideas brought forth by the OP.
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  • DisgracefulMind
    DisgracefulMind
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    Wing wrote: »
    It would be a DK asking for DoTs to be unpurgeable xD

    I play a stam DK and only make use of venomous claw.

    however EVERY class has dots (sans sorc iirc) or access to them through weapon skill lines. but attacking a health gameplay balance because your what? scared of magicka DK's?

    You don't even know me lol, I'm not scared of magicka DKs in the slightest, but I don't agree at all with this suggestion. It would almost entirely benefit mostly Magicka DKs.
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  • Wing
    Wing
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    Wing wrote: »
    It would be a DK asking for DoTs to be unpurgeable xD

    I play a stam DK and only make use of venomous claw.

    however EVERY class has dots (sans sorc iirc) or access to them through weapon skill lines. but attacking a health gameplay balance because your what? scared of magicka DK's?

    You don't even know me lol, I'm not scared of magicka DKs in the slightest, but I don't agree at all with this suggestion. It would almost entirely benefit mostly Magicka DKs.

    depends on the numbers, (as I stated some if not all numbers would need to be looked at to make sure there not over-tuned) it depends on if right now dots are balanced around being purged or not (I doubt it) and dots (everything but bleeds) are mitigated by normal means such as resistances (as they all should be) and all other standard forms of mitigations.

    dot damage by its nature is a non bursty but resource efficient form of damage that (once gain other than bleeds currently) is fairly incapable of taking down individuals on its own, I don't expect that to change, you should not be able to burst people down with dots (something that once again bleeds and poisons are doing right now)

    they should do what they are supposed to, apply steady efficient damage over time that has the fatal flaw of being unable to burst, lack surprise, and be easy to react to / heal through / counter / etc.

    and it would be VERY easy to change numbers, to strong? nerf the damage, to efficient? increase the cost, to weak? increase the damage, etc.

    but right now some dots are BS, and some are weak, all can be purged, but not everyone has purge, and those that have dots, don't want there to be more purge. so the gameplay is to unhealthy and inconsistent to balance anything.

    and thus we come to the bleed builds running poisons against low health people that don't have access to purges that is the current BS of PVP
    ESO player since beta.
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    You shall be as gods You shall be as gods You shall be as gods You shall be as gods You shall be as gods You shall be as gods You shall be as gods You shall be as gods You shall be as gods You shall be as gods You shall be as gods You shall be as gods You shall be as gods You shall be as gods You shall be as gods You shall be as gods You shall be as gods You shall be as gods You shall be as gods You shall be as gods You shall be as gods You shall be as gods You shall be as gods You shall be as gods You shall be as gods -Xenogears
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  • TumlinTheJolly
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    This all looks good to me. Nice suggestions.
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  • jcm2606
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    Oblivion damage flat out shouldn't exist. If a player wants to counter tanky builds, they should have to counter the specific methods of achieving tankiness. Sets that deal increased damage to blocking targets, or increased damage to shields (not the oblivion damage Knight Slayer), are good examples that should be more common.

    In my philosophy, a counter that doesn't discern between what it should and shouldn't be countering isn't a counter, it's a broken mechanic. Oblivion damage fits squarely in the "doesn't discern" category, since it cuts through all mitigation, and so shouldn't exist. There are other examples, healing absorption being another one, since it doesn't discern between a tank who mitigates via healing, and your average DPS barely staying alive through basic heals, but oblivion damage is perhaps the biggest example.

    In a similar vein, I feel bleed damage should be reworked to either have a global %-based resistance debuff similar to maces/mauls (for instance, bleeds ignore maybe 50% of the target's physical resistance, so it hits resistance stackers harder than your average player), or it should be reworked to scale based on the max health of the target. It's a choice between having bleeds counter resistance or max health, and I feel a mechanic should be introduced for whichever bleeds don't counter. More options is better.
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