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Transmutation, We have Traits, Why not Armor Type as well?
Matthew_Galvanus
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As the title states, the fact that transmutations are limited solely to trait types seems rather ridiculous. One of the most frustrating problems I have is when Im making a new character and im grinding dozens of keys (sometimes many more than that) trying for one singular monster shoulder type ( be it, light, medium, or heavy) and often times i'll get everything i don't need. For example, i have used close to fifty keys trying to get a medium or light (preferably light) Ilambris shoulder type, but more often than not i won't get the right monster set, or less commonly, i'll get the shoulder i want, but not the armor type i need (thus far i've only gotten heavy types). This endless rng nightmare that is completely stacked against you is driving me completely up the wall.
I have never understood why we don't have the ability to transmute an armor from one class to another (like light into heavy, heavy to medium, etc, etc). It would get rid of this incredibly frustrating feeling when you spend days or even weeks trying to get that one shoulder you want.
It's not just monster sets that would benefit from this though, imagine being able to take a chest piece you so lovingly crafted from scratch and golded out and being and to transmute its type to suit a new build.
I won't deny that this comes from a place where i'm feeling horribly frustrated at the fact that i've wasted a *ton* of keys looking for one single kind of monster set shoulders, but it doesn't change the fact that this idea feels like something that should have been a thing when transmutation was first introduced with Clockwork City. And if not then, then better late than never.
Of course the same stipulations that come from transmuting would apply to them, any item you transmute the armor type for would become bound to you (assume it wasn't already), it'd still cost 50 transmutation crystals (because non eso+ players cant go over that) and it would give us a solution to a horribly designed 'rewards' system.
I have never understood why we don't have the ability to transmute an armor from one class to another (like light into heavy, heavy to medium, etc, etc). It would get rid of this incredibly frustrating feeling when you spend days or even weeks trying to get that one shoulder you want.
It's not just monster sets that would benefit from this though, imagine being able to take a chest piece you so lovingly crafted from scratch and golded out and being and to transmute its type to suit a new build.
I won't deny that this comes from a place where i'm feeling horribly frustrated at the fact that i've wasted a *ton* of keys looking for one single kind of monster set shoulders, but it doesn't change the fact that this idea feels like something that should have been a thing when transmutation was first introduced with Clockwork City. And if not then, then better late than never.
Of course the same stipulations that come from transmuting would apply to them, any item you transmute the armor type for would become bound to you (assume it wasn't already), it'd still cost 50 transmutation crystals (because non eso+ players cant go over that) and it would give us a solution to a horribly designed 'rewards' system.
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Taleof2Cities✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭It’s a can of worms, @Matthew_Galvanus ... a pandora’s box.
Easy to implement into the game? Probably.
Having the Combat Team trying to re-balance the game after? A nightmare.
Remember that you can catch your selected monster shoulders at Adhazabi Aba’Daro the Golden if you hit the right weekend.
That’s after racking up keys of course. Most players should not be having issues with keys ... if they’re unlocking their Undaunted Mettle passives (like they should) to max out stats.
Edited by Taleof2Cities on April 18, 2019 1:56AM5 -
Matthew_Galvanus✭✭✭✭✭
✭Taleof2Cities wrote: »It’s a can of worms, @Matthew_Galvanus ... a pandora’s box.
Easy to implement into the game? Probably.
Having the Combat Team trying to re-balance the game after? A nightmare.
why would it need rebalancing? If you limit items that can be transmuted to only ones that have a light, medium, and heavy version of the same item, then it should be fine.
for instance, a dungeon set that is exclusively light can;t be transmuted into a medium or heavy armor type because no such armor exists, whereas a set item that you crafted can be transmuted because the item exists in all armor types.Edited by Matthew_Galvanus on April 18, 2019 1:56AM0 -
Siohwenoeht✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Ya... So many set bonuses are geared towards specific types of armor. Medium sets typically have Stam bonuses, light typically mag, heavy = health, so I can't see how this would help outside of monster sets.
With my monster sets, I adjust the other pieces to get the undaunted bonus... Not necessarily properly min/max but enough for what I do.Edited by Siohwenoeht on April 18, 2019 1:56AM"It is a lovely language, but it takes a very long time saying anything in it, because we do not say anything in it, unless it is worth taking a long time to say, and to listen to." - Treebeard0 -
Matthew_Galvanus✭✭✭✭✭
✭Siohwenoeht wrote: »Ya... So many set bonuses are geared towards specific types of armor. Medium sets typically have Stam bonuses, light typically mag, heavy = health. With my monster sets, I adjust the other pieces to get the undaunted bonus... Not necessarily properly min/max but enough for what I do.
that is what i try to do as well. i usually try to do 5 pieces of my class' chosen battle style (mage= light, stam=medium, tank=heavy)
with the monster set having one of each other typing (one medium, one heavy, etc) so that i benefit from the undaunted bonuses while still retaining the perks of having 5 pieces of a specific armor type.
hence why i feel transmuting armor types should be something we can do, to make achieving this easier and to circumvent this ridiculous grind that feels very frustrating0 -
Matthew_Galvanus✭✭✭✭✭
✭@Taleof2Cities
it's not that i have issues collecting keys, it's that im tired of wasting countless keys and never getting what i actually want/need for a build.1 -
Taleof2Cities✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Matthew_Galvanus wrote: »
why would it need rebalancing? If you limit items that can be transmuted to only ones that have a light, medium, and heavy version of the same item, then it should be fine.
for instance, a dungeon set that is exclusively light can;t be transmuted into a medium or heavy armor type because no such armor exists, whereas a set item that you crafted can be transmuted because the item exists in all armor types.
Alright, I’ll let you lead the sit-down discussion with the Combat Team.
A couple of obvious issues will be sets like light armor Rattlecage and medium armor Dreugh King Slayer.
You’re the one that gets to let them know they’re in charge of balancing all the dropped sets for all armor weights.0 -
Matthew_Galvanus✭✭✭✭✭
✭Taleof2Cities wrote: »Matthew_Galvanus wrote: »
why would it need rebalancing? If you limit items that can be transmuted to only ones that have a light, medium, and heavy version of the same item, then it should be fine.
for instance, a dungeon set that is exclusively light can;t be transmuted into a medium or heavy armor type because no such armor exists, whereas a set item that you crafted can be transmuted because the item exists in all armor types.
Alright, I’ll let you lead the sit-down discussion with the Combat Team.
A couple of obvious issues will be sets like light armor Rattlecage and medium armor Dreugh King Slayer.
You’re the one that gets to let them know they’re in charge of balancing all the dropped sets for all armor weights.
did you not read what i said in regards to that? Item sets that only have one kind of armor type CANNOT be transmuted as they'd have nothing to transmute to since only one type exists.Edited by Matthew_Galvanus on April 18, 2019 2:07AM2 -
Mettaricana✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Matthew_Galvanus wrote: »Taleof2Cities wrote: »It’s a can of worms, @Matthew_Galvanus ... a pandora’s box.
Easy to implement into the game? Probably.
Having the Combat Team trying to re-balance the game after? A nightmare.
why would it need rebalancing? If you limit items that can be transmuted to only ones that have a light, medium, and heavy version of the same item, then it should be fine.
for instance, a dungeon set that is exclusively light can;t be transmuted into a medium or heavy armor type because no such armor exists, whereas a set item that you crafted can be transmuted because the item exists in all armor types.
Seems pointless as there really isnt any sets like that except crafted and by then just cheaper and easier to recraft it1 -
DisgracefulMind✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭No thank youUnfortunate magicka warden main.
PC/NA Server
Fairweather Friends
Retired to baby bgs forever. Leave me alone.2 -
Matthew_Galvanus✭✭✭✭✭
✭Mettaricana wrote: »Matthew_Galvanus wrote: »Taleof2Cities wrote: »It’s a can of worms, @Matthew_Galvanus ... a pandora’s box.
Easy to implement into the game? Probably.
Having the Combat Team trying to re-balance the game after? A nightmare.
why would it need rebalancing? If you limit items that can be transmuted to only ones that have a light, medium, and heavy version of the same item, then it should be fine.
for instance, a dungeon set that is exclusively light can;t be transmuted into a medium or heavy armor type because no such armor exists, whereas a set item that you crafted can be transmuted because the item exists in all armor types.
Seems pointless as there really isnt any sets like that except crafted and by then just cheaper and easier to recraft it
how would it be pointless if it saved people countless hours of work. this post is mainly about petitioning for this changed mainly so i dont have to grind innumerable keys to get a monster shoulder i want1 -
MartiniDaniels✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Matthew_Galvanus wrote: »DisgracefulMind wrote: »No thank you
any particular reason why?
Because all the existing balance of viable sets will be thrown away immediately. Crafting sets will be gutted too.2 -
IsharaMeradin✭✭✭✭✭If it were to include the crafted sets or any other drop set, no.
If it were for monster sets only and costs twice as much transmutation stones as it does for the trait, I could live with that.
For example:
Mag character
Picks up Shadowrend shoulders in heavy with training trait
Shadowrend helmet is obtained in heavy with well-fitted trait
One of them should be medium as light is being worn in the other 5 slots
Neither trait may be preferred 50 stones each to change
Change one piece to medium 100 stones
200 stones total.
It needs to be cost prohibitive so that players will run the content and try their luck. But the ability to do it could be there if someone really wants to skip the grind.
Or given that they now have skyshard purchases on the way...
They implement a non-transferable crown purchased token that when used the player fills out a form with the desired set shoulders, trait and armor type. The token will guarantee that they will get that drop in the current game session but not necessarily on the first go. A random number unseen to the player between 10 and 50 will be used to determine which key drops the desired item. The token will not work unless the player is carrying at least 50 keys and 50 transmutation stones.
This would still allow players to get random generated pieces that they may decide to use with other helms while feeding keys to the chest until their specified piece drops. Content still gets played for the keys and stones. Multiple keys get spent. Transmutation stones taken in exchange of providing desired trait. Token ensures the desired armor type is obtained.
Yes, it could be considered P2W but 2/3s of that payment is with in-game currency that is only obtained by playing the game. The 1/3 that comes from real money only provides a guarantee that RNG will provide the desired item within a fixed range of key uses.
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DisgracefulMind✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Matthew_Galvanus wrote: »DisgracefulMind wrote: »No thank you
any particular reason why?
It'd be a balancing nightmare in a game that's already a balancing nightmare.Unfortunate magicka warden main.
PC/NA Server
Fairweather Friends
Retired to baby bgs forever. Leave me alone.0 -
therift✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Change your build to something you have.
Judging from the length of time Transmutation was requested and when it was introduced, it'll be 2020 before it's implemented.
We're still going through rounds of nerfs balance adjustments due in part to Transmutation.
No thank you for the foreseeable future. Work on fixes first, content-skipping shortcuts later. Much later.
Besides, ZoS is already working on a solution to reduce RNG from Undaunted Chests. Hopefully, we'll have it this year.
edit:spellcheck sucks
Edited by therift on April 18, 2019 4:47AM0 -
hregrin✭✭✭It's not a problem of changing the type of armor. It's a problem of the way monster shoulders are handled (and shoulder only - it's reasonably easy to get the head you want, especially since they added transmutation). There is a problem with shoulders. Running HM pledges every day with one character will give you 6 keys (and not everyone can run dlc HM, so let's average it to 5). Getting the shoulder you want in the armor type you want can often burn through 50 or more keys. And the more dlc dungeons they add, the worst the problem will be (for urgalag's chest at least, but it's pretty bad for the others the way it is).
What they need to do, and IIRC they already told they were working out the best way to handle it, is change the way monster shoulders are distributed. Either by having a random box per set that can give you any type, or by a voucher system, or anything that avoids us having to go through 50 or more useless shoulders before we get the one we need.0 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Matthew_Galvanus wrote: »Taleof2Cities wrote: »It’s a can of worms, @Matthew_Galvanus ... a pandora’s box.
Easy to implement into the game? Probably.
Having the Combat Team trying to re-balance the game after? A nightmare.
why would it need rebalancing? If you limit items that can be transmuted to only ones that have a light, medium, and heavy version of the same item, then it should be fine.
for instance, a dungeon set that is exclusively light can;t be transmuted into a medium or heavy armor type because no such armor exists, whereas a set item that you crafted can be transmuted because the item exists in all armor types.
This part is more likely to be a greater challenge for Zos to implement for starters. I doubt the db fields and filters are setup for this as it would not be needed otherwise.
I agree with @Taleof2Cities overall on this. Even if Zos could easily implement this and for some reason added it to the game. The next thread we would see in the forums would be some yank saying it is ridiculous that we can change the armor weight of some pieces but not all pieces.
It is a slippery sloap, Pandora's box leading to combat balance issues and why Zos would likely not want touch this idea.
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Austinseph1✭✭✭✭✭Transmuting sets that already have a heavy, medium, or light counterpart like monster sets doesn’t sound game breaking. But I think that opens up a can of worms and people would then want all sets opened. It’s honestly not a problem in the first place and would remove a ton of grind but monster sets should be a journey to get. I am okay with the work I’ve put into them and it’s honestly not a QoL improvement I would be interested on having them work on in place of actual content or bug fixes. It’s a nice thought, but nothing really necessitates the need unless they are just feeling generous.0 -
Parrot1986✭✭✭✭✭
✭It’s an MMO and there will and should always be an element of grind in it to encourage replay ability without it being overbearing. the fact that you have transmute for traits I think it’s pretty balanced.
In PVE for Magika you want a shoulder in either heavy or medium and a helm in the opposite. For Stam you want both in medium, that’s hardly a difficult drop to get. I agree RNG on the chests can sometimes be cruel, I spent nearly 100 to get 1 earthgore, but it’s pretty balanced.
Allowing you to transmute weights leaves us 1 step away from people asking to be able to choose the drop they want. Which will happen based on how the games gone so far.
When monster helms didn’t drop guaranteed people moaned so Zos changed it. Then people moaned their group mates got the helm they wanted, zos changed it. Then then the trait was the wrong one, zos changed it. People are never happy basically and eventually want to to take it to a point where they get the exact gear they want in 1 run, which I disagree with completely.4 -
D0PAMINE✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭This is why I save everything in good traits and all weights. I have no storage but my key grind is null. Althougn it took a f*ck ton of time to get them all, it's not at stressfull anymore now that im stocked and locked.0 -
bharathitman✭✭✭✭OP, if your idea gets implemented then it would be a game changer, in a very very bad way. The game wasn't designed for it and balancing it later will be a complete nightmare. You will have people transmuting non craftable sets to their desired weights1
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FierceSam✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭I get the concept, but I don’t see the need for it.
When I started getting monster hats and only had a very limited number of keys, this would have been great. However, now I have storage boxes full of arm pieces and a load of keys I really don’t need. And I really don’t do that many dungeons.
The fundamental downside to this idea is that it would lead to people playing fewer dungeons. The rng element of the shoulder pieces encourages/forces players who want specific sets to do more than a couple of dungeons for each set they want because they need the keys. Transmutation was brought in because players felt they had to run specific dungeons too many times just to get a hat in the right weight and trait. Now you can be confident that your group will get a hat in the right weight in a couple of runs max.
This has reduced the need to rerun older dungeons so much that ZOS have had to introduce the mask style motifs as an additional incentive to do some of the less well liked middle tier dungeons.1 -
NupidStoob✭✭✭✭✭Getting the gear you want has never been so fast/easy in this game before. "Ridiculous" was before transmutation. Now it's totally bearable. Pretty much every monster set also has a good alternative so there rarely is a need to chase after that perfect piece. Nowadays when I need a headpiece I need at maximum 3 runs to get what I want if I run with guildies and most often it's one run. Shoulders can of course be more RNG, but like I said there are numerous alternatives.
From ZoS point of view pledges are one of the aspects that keep the game alive. So I don't think they will just invalidate their existence with a change like this.
OP since I assume you are a magsorc you can also just use: Zaan, Grothdarr, Slimecraw Skoria or Nerien'eth (vaguely sorted by usefulness). Grothdarr and Nerien'eth both drop from the same chest as Ilambris, so there is a high chance you already have them. Can just run them with wrong trait in purple for the time being honestly. A few mismatched Traits don't make much of a difference.2 -
ThanatosXR✭✭✭We need Legendary type armor. Armor that can be modified to fit your characters build style0
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Tsar_Gekkou✭✭✭✭✭
✭I wouldn't mind having heavy magicka sets like Sanctuary for pvp.Xbox NA healer main
vAA HM | vHRC HM | vSO HM | vMoL HM | vHoF HM | vAS+2 | vCR+3 | vBRP | vSS HM | vKA HM | vRG HM |
Flawless Conqueror | Spirit Slayer | Dro-mA'thra Destroyer | Tick-Tock-Tormentor | Immortal Redeemer | Gryphon Heart | Godslayer | Dawnbringer | Planesbreaker |0 -
m2rc✭✭✭I disagree:
Your suggested change would mostly impact the process of farming undaunted shoulders. If you had the option to spend transmutation crystals on changing the armour type it wouldn't even change the amount of time you'd have to farm pledges. By the time you've got enough transmutation crystals to transmute your shoulder from farming pledges you've probably already got the shoulder in the armour type you wanted.
If somehow you're a transmutation crystal magnate, this change would mean you would barely even have to play the game to get BiS gear. Transmutation was added in the first place to make farming for BiS gear less excruciating then what it once was. Zos has been generous enough the balance the relationship of zos wanting you to play more and the player wanting to do less to get more in our favour, doing this would ruin this relationship and make farming gear unrewarding.
This change would also diminish the population of players in the dungeon queues, as there are quicker ways to get transmutation crystals and why bother farming a dungeon over and over if you can just change your piece automatically. This change doesn't encourage players to advance their skills in their roles through playing dungeons.
That's why I disagree, but thanks for bringing up the change anyway. People like you who suggest change are the reason why things like transmutation were added into the game.1 -
Smasherx74✭✭✭✭✭
✭How about no? They've made it easy enough for you to get BiS gear with minimal grinding. Most of us worked our asses off for our builds, at least you can do is the same.Master Debater2 -
Chronocidal✭✭✭+1 for transmute armour type for sets that already have multiple armour types (eg: crafted)
+1 for the cost of that transmute to be 50 stones so its still within the non-ESO+ players grasp0 -
Mitrenga✭✭✭✭✭So you would like to throw away all the work on balancing and set item creation that ZoS worked on? How about the theorycrafters and players who spent their time/gold? Such an implementation would ruin the game. No need to farm anything, no need to work for anything except to get some transmutation stones. Empty dungeons, empty overland areas, dolmens, trials. Hell no need for item sets except a few meta ones..
Game is really easy as it is and please don't dumb it down anymore.0 -
vingarmo✭✭✭I like this idea solely for the fact that it would make possible to transmute sets like Rattlecage (to light), Advancing Yokeda (to medium) and Alkosh (to heavy). For the monster sets I don't see a problem as well. People who enjoy doing pledges get all sets eventually and those who mostly pvp won't be forced to do content they don't like (or pray for golden rng).0