OwnerOfSuccuby wrote: »

Good player and good dd is not about damage at all. I can say more. Thise who just dps target can not pkay good. They just skip mechanics with no real action.

3 dd - 1 tank 180 k dps, boss do not use its skills = kill dummy. Noskill needed at all.
Other party -> not enough damage to skip phase = can not pass at all.
Very bad game.

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Trully good game for dd is when you can survive, make and know all tacticks, can make all by your self. Tank is dead - run with boss. Or resurect your oarty member.

Yes you are dd. You have to have 35-40+k dps. But put it by your own. Have saves for party. Abbility survive and kill add. Do not die in each situation. That is good pkay loocks like. Not skipping mechanicks.

For example we can do a lot of dunguans with only 2 of us in paty. We do not need 4 people. If you just dps all - you will never do the same. The game is not only about high dps you know ?

As DD you must make 35+k dps for exampl.

But are you good or bad is not calculated in how much of it you can do on dummy. Tou can have 40 k dps and be much better than thouse who make 60k dps. The game is not only about dps. It is more about abbility to play. Make and play with strategy. Think, make thingth by your own. Those who can anything of it - just go to high dps. My opinion.

You are half right.

If you die by not knowing the mechanics, then your dps is truly irrevelant, but as long as you survive, and know the tactics you can damage, and while you damage it is your skill on the dummy, that used to deal maximum possible damage.

I saw many guy spamming lights attacks even on trashmobs. I like WTF YOU DOING MAN?! Every weapon type has a sort of spammable attack. An attack, that you use when all other skills are applied, and worth at least same as a light attack. Also get some *** AOE when facing a bunch of trash mobs.

Especially in the base game there are lots of dungeons where the DPS literary don't have to pay attention at all until last boss. If you are slow on those bosses, then these kind of videos, and dummy training might truly help.

starkerealm wrote: »

So, in the end, I'd say, "worry more about what player can actually do, than what they can do to a dummy."

I have never come across a player who can do 50-60k+ on a solo dummy that hasn't been at least competent in trials. Sure they may not be good enough for a competitive group but if you can do that damage then more often than not you're not going to be a detriment to the group.

starkerealm wrote: »

DjMuscleboy02 wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

So, in the end, I'd say, "worry more about what player can actually do, than what they can do to a dummy."

I have never come across a player who can do 50-60k+ on a solo dummy that hasn't been at least competent in trials. Sure they may not be good enough for a competitive group but if you can do that damage then more often than not you're not going to be a detriment to the group.

Oddly enough I've encountered players who could legitimately pull 60k live, who were a detriment to the group. Not because of their skills, but because of their overall behavior and attitude. Again, DPS isn't everything. Granted, that's a bit outside the scope of what we've been talking about, but, does kinda underline the idea that maybe evaulating players for the DPS role goes a bit beyond just saying, "hey, they can do damage."

Oh absolutely. I've always said that attitude was one of the biggest things I'd look for in filling a raid team. My point was more aimed at people who struggle to do 40k on a dummy.

DjMuscleboy02 wrote: »

It is very interesting that taking weapons from purple to gold can add a further 2 - 3k.

This is because the weapon's damage stat increases by ~200 when you upgrade from Purple to Gold. This is the only, truly significant, increase from purple to gold gear.

Increasing armor from purple to gold doesn't affect outgoing damage at all. Note: I did not say, "upgrading your armor." If you attempt this, you will see a marginal damage increase, (assuming your rotation test is consistent.)

I wouldn't commit to that, "500dps" number that T3 is throwing around, because, well, frankly, it's wrong. Upgrading a full set of Rele body pieces will increase your DPS from that set by ~200 + plus the extra 213 Stam you'll pick up from the improved enchantments. (Assuming no pieces are infused, in which case that will be a little higher, but not by much.)

Compare that to 5pc Dreugh King Slayer, where you'll see your weapon damage increase by 10. Seriously, that's the difference. Your crit chance will go up marginally as well in both cases (~60 for Rele, ~30 for DKS.) I can't remember the exact percentage, but it's still less than 1% total.

So, here's how this works: The armor item itself (think an unenchanted, traitless, non-set piece) does not affect your DPS at all. (This is ignoring passive skills, as none of those scale based on the item's rarity, just "is there something in that slot?") Upgrading it increases your damage resistances, and even then the Purple to Gold jump is usually less than 100. This is contributing to a stat that will be measured in five digits, so you can see where the jump isn't particularly significant. (Incidentally, progression is almost linear, so your increase from blue to purple is roughly in step with your purple to gold increases.)

There are three major things which can influence your damage output, and some of these interact:

Set bonuses are probably the biggest, and what T3 is talking about there, even if he can't explain it. Sets calculate their bonus based on the average of each equipped piece. For example, a purple piece of gear with a weapon/spell damage bonus will be 124 at Purple, and 129 at Gold. If you're wearing five pieces of that set, and you upgrade one from purple to gold, the bonus you receive will increase to 125. (Incidentally, in the case of Hunding's/Juli, the difference between full purple and full gold is 11, so each piece will increase your weapon damage stat by 2.2. Single damage type sets, like Automaton, Silks of the Sun, or War Maiden give you 14.)

Now, something critical to remember, some set bonuses do not scale with their rarity. Off-hand, sets that provide major/minor buffs come to mind as an example of this. (For example: Rattlecage and Dreugh King Slayer.) You will see some damage increase from the 2 through 4pc bonuses, but the 5pc won't scale. Just pay attention when you're looking at a set and upgrading it.

Sets that deal damage independent of the player (like Relequin, Destructive Mage, Viper, Poisonous Serpent, ect) benefit the most from upgrades to gold, as their procced damage increases with the item's rarity. (You can't parse with it, because no synergies, but Alkosh does downright hilarious damage at gold rarity if you're stealing a lot of synergies from the tank, because there's no cooldown on the DoT from it. Amusingly, raids where one of the DPS is also running Alkosh tend to fair better, simply because there's less pressure on the tank to maintain uptime, either player can refresh the debuff. (At least, I think it refreshes, I don't think the debuff stacks with itself. Though I haven't bothered testing that. (The DoT does self-stack, though. If that doesn't get you cackling, you haven't actually looked at the set for DPS.))

Incidentally, the big winner on damage dealing sets are your 2pc monster sets, as the bonus for individual pieces is averaged across two pieces (instead of five), and it's cheaper to gold out two armor pieces, rather than five.

Enchantments increase their effectiveness with rarity; which, I'd hope, you know. However, the enchantments on dropped items have no rarity. So, when you get a piece of pre-enchanted gear as a drop, the enchantment effect on it will dynamically scale to the item's rarity. (It also scales to the item's enchanting level bracket, but, there's no way to adjust the level of an item, so consider this more a piece of trivia.) This means, when you're upgrading a piece of dropped gear, the original enchantment on it will scale up with that piece.

So, for example (because this one's in my inventory right now), if you get an Aether Jerkin of Destruction at purple rarity, the Enchantment will be +802 Mag, increasing it to gold will improve that enchantment to 868. (Small enchantments go from 324 -> 351, if you're wondering.)

Unlike set bonuses, this is not calculated against anything, and you simply get the extra 66 magicka added to your pool. That will help to increase your damage a little, but it's probably not enough to look at it and go, "oh, hey, I need to do this right now."

The third thing that will affect your damage is your trait. Most armor traits won't. Stuff like Nirnhoned, Reinforced, Training, or Impen, won't increase your DPS at all. However, there are two armor traits that will. Infused will increase the effectiveness of your armor enchant, which will increase one of your pools. So, your infused Destructive Aether Jerk will instead give you +938 at purple, and +1041 at gold. This is because upgrading the trait increases the bonus from that trait (17%->20% with Infused.) Divines will also increase your damage depending on your standing stone bonus (6.5%-7.5% per piece, so 1% per piece, though slightly less net, because you're going to be evaluating with that 6.5% bonus already in place.) (So, we can safely assume, in most damage specs it'll benefit you somehow.)

Now, everything I just explained above also applies to weapons, except that more of their traits are beneficial to damage. Sharpened and Infused are both more damage. Nirnhoned is a buff to the damage stat itself. Even decisive will increase your overall damage, if you're remembering to use your ult, even if I don't particularly recommend the trait. Picking the right trait is more about understanding what your build needs or already has.

Upgrading jewelry returns almost nothing, and should be an act of last resort, (or just an opportunity to show off your wealth.) Everything I said above, except your upgrade costs are an order of magnitude more expensive. The trade off is, jewelry enchantments are more appealing, and being able to slap infused on a weapon damage enchant is a pretty significant buff. I'm not saying, "never do this," but really don't do this unless you want to, not because you think it will improve your DPS.

Ability altering weapons, (yes, this includes the vMA bow), don't directly increase your DPS. They improve a specific skill, which in turn can increase your overall DPS. I realize this may sound like nitpicking, and it kinda is, but when when we're talking about the benefit for someone with shaky DPS, saying, "yeah, upgrading to a Maelstorm Bow will increase their DPS by X" is really misleading, especially if they're having a hard time remembering to keep Endless Hail up. If you know what you're doing, and can keep track of your ground AoEs, they're amazing. But, if we're talking about someone struggling to crack 15k, remembering to keep their AoEs up is probably a big part of their problem, which directly effects the two major vMA weapons, (the bow, and the destro staff.)