This may be partly why wings is getting nerfed. Pay to win.

TumlinTheJolly · April 2019

Necro is getting a very strong pull ability vs range. That, PLUS Shimmering Shield, PLUS reflect on wings would really mess with ranged builds. So how do they help ranged builds be a bit more viable?... Nerf one of these abilities. They're not going to nerf the P2W classes, so DK gets the short end of the stick (I don't main DK FYI, and I'll be buying the xpac for sure).

DisgracefulMind · April 2019

Uhhhh, what?

Ace_SiN · April 2019

I know it's cool to create conspiracies about how devs are corrupt and only care about money, at the expense of their consumers. However, that doesn't make any sense.. at all.. I don't agree with all the changes (especially the WW nerf without any cost adjustments to skills), but I can tell the devs are finally taking the time to develop a ruleset. Prior to this, ESO has been a chaotic mess that you learned to accept or leave.

For PvP, I think the necro pull is mostly terrible. PvP is all about controlling the situation and timing, not having random people pulled to you. Maybe if you're a zergling this will be hilariously trolly, but as a small scale player I'm not so sure.

LittlePinkDot · April 2019

TumlinTheJolly wrote: »

Necro is getting a very strong pull ability vs range. That, PLUS Shimmering Shield, PLUS reflect on wings would really mess with ranged builds. So how do they help ranged builds be a bit more viable?... Nerf one of these abilities. They're not going to nerf the P2W classes, so DK gets the short end of the stick (I don't main DK FYI, and I'll be buying the xpac for sure).

But they buffed magdk damage for a few of its class skills. Im happy with the damage boost. And I believe there was a cost reduction too. Wings is water under the bridge in comparison.

Savos_Saren · April 2019

Honestly, a lot of NBs and Sorcs wanted a nerf to Wings- but when ZOS implemented the 50% damage reduction- they said that change was OP.

I've seen propositions that it should still reflect from people outside of 10m range but do nothing for people within 10m. I've seen propsitions that it should only reflect back 2 attacks per person within the six second window without having to reapply wings (this would make it very, very expensive to spam and allow Sorcs/NBs to duel DKs more easily).

It's hard to say what the best change is.

TheValkyn · April 2019

Ace_SiN wrote: »

I know it's cool to create conspiracies about how devs are corrupt and only care about money, at the expense of their consumers.

I'd love to see this proven wrong especially knowing ZOS' and Bethesda's current sales strategy.

Zacuel · April 2019

My only concern as a dk is without wings I'll be a sitting duck. I'm thinking if it's really bad switching to medium armor with swift jewelry and running chains.

Maybe run wings and blade cloak for range and aoe damage reduction.

But you know how it goes. It may sound good on paper but you still end up getting wrecked.

Kind of a wait and see thing.

Lord_Eomer · April 2019

Wings will do okay, stop complaining.

Wings were OP and needed this fine tuning.

wheem_ESO · April 2019

My Ricochet skull crit a Wings-up DK in a Battleground for just over 1k.

DisgracefulMind · April 2019

wheem_ESO wrote: »

My Ricochet skull crit a Wings-up DK in a Battleground for just over 1k.

Yeah, I was dueling my friend, and my skull was averaging about a ~3k on him with wings up, but his Dragon Fire Scale reflect was hitting average 2.4k for every single piece of damage inflicted (including light attacks). I actually feel like Wings are overtuned in this state. What are ranged supposed to do...lightning heavy still? Nothing changes then. The issue was range not being able to keep pressure on DKs, and that's still an issue.

DKs need to seriously re-evaluate this change; it's strong.

Jhalin · April 2019

Wings were not OP in the way that needed a complete removal of their most iconic abilities

It’s like NBs losing their Cloak and Evasion (which sucked, rest in peace dodge chance)

Or if Templar lost Purge and BoL

Or if Sorc lost their pets or Overload bars (which was also a stupid nerf, rest in peace with shields too)

Tbh I don’t know what Warden really has except their AoE stam spam so cant really comment there. Tried it and never really found much to work off as a big feature of the class.

Regardless, their “balance” which is bad in the first place, is making everything dull and unfun bit by bit.

Chelo · April 2019

TumlinTheJolly wrote: »

Necro is getting a very strong pull ability vs range. That, PLUS Shimmering Shield, PLUS reflect on wings would really mess with ranged builds. So how do they help ranged builds be a bit more viable?... Nerf one of these abilities. They're not going to nerf the P2W classes, so DK gets the short end of the stick (I don't main DK FYI, and I'll be buying the xpac for sure).

Dude it was obvious, they don't want another "MagBlade vs DK" situation happening to the Necromancer, nobody is going to buy the class if DKs could counter their entire range skill set with just pressing 1 key...

Honestly it was going to happend eventually, since the future of Range New Classes are projectiles...

juhislihis19 · April 2019

Necromancer has to be the best class available with the best buffs and debuffs. It's just good business. Necro will be the new cash cow for few years. It's not a conspiracy, they need to make more money.

DisgracefulMind · April 2019

juhislihis19 wrote: »

Necromancer has to be the best class available with the best buffs and debuffs. It's just good business. Necro will be the new cash cow for few years. It's not a conspiracy, they need to make more money.

But it's not

templesus · April 2019

Cue the Westbrook walking out on the interviewers clip

Anyron · April 2019

Nonsense. Necro may be strong but its new and there will be ballancing.

P2w? Why? Because one class is better than other?
This isnt what p2w is about

Jhalin · April 2019

Anyron wrote: »

Nonsense. Necro may be strong but its new and there will be ballancing.

P2w? Why? Because one class is better than other?
This isnt what p2w is about

Everyone and their mum likes to define P2W as locking something exclusively behind paying money. Such as: in-class Berserk, Minor Toughness, Major Vulnerability, instant revive

This is very clearly what P2W is about

DisgracefulMind · April 2019

Jhalin wrote: »

Anyron wrote: »

Nonsense. Necro may be strong but its new and there will be ballancing.

P2w? Why? Because one class is better than other?
This isnt what p2w is about

Everyone and their mum likes to define P2W as locking something exclusively behind paying money. Such as: in-class Berserk, Minor Toughness, Major Vulnerability, instant revive

This is very clearly what P2W is about

Except...Magicka Warden is basically in shambles and Necromancer isn't this crazy omfgthisissofknstrong class either. Wouldn't p2w specifically be something that gives you a massive advantage? Because neither really does as it stands on PTS.

Spizzie · April 2019

Why not keep the reflect but just for the first projectile that lands after cast. That would make it more skill-based, requiring the DK to time the reflect well enough if they wanted to send back that bow proc, crystal frag, or destro reach and not one of the light attacks between. Not sure how you would balance the remaining duration of the wings. Maybe make it a 30% reduction to projectiles after the first reflection?

I don't think anyone is going to be satisfied with these wing changes, DK's, NB's and Sorcs included. Sorcs are going to feel like their crystal frag proc is super soft and easy to heal from, NB's are going to work hard to get their bow procced only for it to take off less than 1/4 of a DK's health bar, and DK's aren't going to feel the uniqueness of their class-defining ability.

Numerikuu · April 2019

LittlePinkDot wrote: »

TumlinTheJolly wrote: »

Necro is getting a very strong pull ability vs range. That, PLUS Shimmering Shield, PLUS reflect on wings would really mess with ranged builds. So how do they help ranged builds be a bit more viable?... Nerf one of these abilities. They're not going to nerf the P2W classes, so DK gets the short end of the stick (I don't main DK FYI, and I'll be buying the xpac for sure).

But they buffed magdk damage for a few of its class skills. Im happy with the damage boost. And I believe there was a cost reduction too. Wings is water under the bridge in comparison.

Inb4 a lot of those buffs end up reverted or nerfed come the end of the PTS cycle. I'm not getting my hopes up.

Glory · April 2019

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

wheem_ESO wrote: »

My Ricochet skull crit a Wings-up DK in a Battleground for just over 1k.

Yeah, I was dueling my friend, and my skull was averaging about a ~3k on him with wings up, but his Dragon Fire Scale reflect was hitting average 2.4k for every single piece of damage inflicted (including light attacks). I actually feel like Wings are overtuned in this state. What are ranged supposed to do...lightning heavy still? Nothing changes then. The issue was range not being able to keep pressure on DKs, and that's still an issue.

DKs need to seriously re-evaluate this change; it's strong.

DFS is very strong in dueling range, although generally I found it not oppressive. Important to note that using DFS requires either dropping snare/immob immunity or another skill slot for RaT. Also important to note that DFS gets watered down when you are fighting multiple ranged.

Example: You are fighting 1 range, all the fire procs every half second hit them - very strong.

Fighting 3 range - every half second one of those three people will get hit, distributing the damage randomly and diluting the strength.

Not saying it's not a good skill, I like the changes. But worth noting.

mcagatayg · April 2019

TumlinTheJolly wrote: »

Necro is getting a very strong pull ability vs range. That, PLUS Shimmering Shield, PLUS reflect on wings would really mess with ranged builds. So how do they help ranged builds be a bit more viable?... Nerf one of these abilities. They're not going to nerf the P2W classes, so DK gets the short end of the stick (I don't main DK FYI, and I'll be buying the xpac for sure).

GOOD ONE LOL
DK is fine with the new and old shield, both of them serve different purposes. New one is prob better for stam for example less magicka overall cuz other one only blocks 4 and you might need to cast it more in some instances.

CrazYDunm3r · April 2019

Have you tried the new wings on PTS? It is f*cking amazing...

DisgracefulMind · April 2019

Glory wrote: »

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

wheem_ESO wrote: »

My Ricochet skull crit a Wings-up DK in a Battleground for just over 1k.

Yeah, I was dueling my friend, and my skull was averaging about a ~3k on him with wings up, but his Dragon Fire Scale reflect was hitting average 2.4k for every single piece of damage inflicted (including light attacks). I actually feel like Wings are overtuned in this state. What are ranged supposed to do...lightning heavy still? Nothing changes then. The issue was range not being able to keep pressure on DKs, and that's still an issue.

DKs need to seriously re-evaluate this change; it's strong.

DFS is very strong in dueling range, although generally I found it not oppressive. Important to note that using DFS requires either dropping snare/immob immunity or another skill slot for RaT. Also important to note that DFS gets watered down when you are fighting multiple ranged.

Example: You are fighting 1 range, all the fire procs every half second hit them - very strong.

Fighting 3 range - every half second one of those three people will get hit, distributing the damage randomly and diluting the strength.

Not saying it's not a good skill, I like the changes. But worth noting.

That is true, it is a bit watered down against multiple ranged.

I just don't think people should be saying it's not strong, because it's incredibly strong.

Tonnopesce · April 2019

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

Glory wrote: »

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

wheem_ESO wrote: »

My Ricochet skull crit a Wings-up DK in a Battleground for just over 1k.

Yeah, I was dueling my friend, and my skull was averaging about a ~3k on him with wings up, but his Dragon Fire Scale reflect was hitting average 2.4k for every single piece of damage inflicted (including light attacks). I actually feel like Wings are overtuned in this state. What are ranged supposed to do...lightning heavy still? Nothing changes then. The issue was range not being able to keep pressure on DKs, and that's still an issue.

DKs need to seriously re-evaluate this change; it's strong.

DFS is very strong in dueling range, although generally I found it not oppressive. Important to note that using DFS requires either dropping snare/immob immunity or another skill slot for RaT. Also important to note that DFS gets watered down when you are fighting multiple ranged.

Example: You are fighting 1 range, all the fire procs every half second hit them - very strong.

Fighting 3 range - every half second one of those three people will get hit, distributing the damage randomly and diluting the strength.

Not saying it's not a good skill, I like the changes. But worth noting.

That is true, it is a bit watered down against multiple ranged.

I just don't think people should be saying it's not strong, because it's incredibly strong.

Don't necro threads we might get confused here, in 2017 we got a whole different nerf.