Ahh the sweet Stamblade tears (magblades you have my sympathy). Also you’re class is still strong, you’re still getting great secondary effects, you still have class identity. You’re just going to have to work for your kill instead of being able to wipe someone out in a couple hits from stealth with no effort.

Any non ganking medium armor stamblade is gonna be hit real hard by these nerfs. Meanwhile the superior heavy armor stamblades are going to be super strong still as there weren't any medium armor buffs or bleed nerfs.

Alucardo wrote: »

Shadowasrial wrote: »

But I definitely expect to be able to kill a player who I’ve taken by surprise and who is by themselves

This right here is why Nightblades are god damn stupid. Any other class initiates a fight normally, and fairly. But no, not nightblades. They stalk in the shadows like cowards, hit you with a fat heal debuff, wiping out over half your health pool in one strike, while also increasing their damage against you by 20%, followed by their spammable which strips away your resistances and hits like a truck.
Before you have time to react you're almost dead in an unrecoverable state.
Stamblade is the most idiotic thing I've ever encountered

Well when you put it like that, it makes sense that they went with the nerfs they did.

p_tsakirisb16_ESO wrote: »

Alucardo wrote: »

Shadowasrial wrote: »

But I definitely expect to be able to kill a player who I’ve taken by surprise and who is by themselves

This right here is why Nightblades are god damn stupid. Any other class initiates a fight normally, and fairly. But no, not nightblades. They stalk in the shadows like cowards, hit you with a fat heal debuff, wiping out over half your health pool in one strike, while also increasing their damage against you by 20%, followed by their spammable which strips away your resistances and hits like a truck.
Before you have time to react you're almost dead in an unrecoverable state.
Stamblade is the most idiotic thing I've ever encountered

@Alucardo mate you are the voice of wisdom.
Don't forget also to add that Bosmers previous passives made that ridiculous OP class the cancer at Cyrodiil.
And personally I have no sympathy to the magNBs, who are as bad.

In light also with the pet Sorc serious nerf, which seems everyone ignored, Cyrodiil would be a better place tbh.

Kiralyn2000 wrote: »

Alucardo wrote: »

Shadowasrial wrote: »

But I definitely expect to be able to kill a player who I’ve taken by surprise and who is by themselves

This right here is why Nightblades are god damn stupid. Any other class initiates a fight normally, and fairly. But no, not nightblades. They stalk in the shadows like cowards, hit you with a fat heal debuff, wiping out over half your health pool in one strike, while also increasing their damage against you by 20%, followed by their spammable which strips away your resistances and hits like a truck.
Before you have time to react you're almost dead in an unrecoverable state.

Soooo.... a typical "rogue" in just about every MMO pvp situation I've ever heard of?

edit: I mean, I don't pvp because I hate it, but I'm just surprised at how offended some people get at single-target stealth assassin classes acting like single-target stealth assassins. Getting 'ganked' by some jackass griefer rogue #/&^!($ is a core part of the pvp experience.

Following your own mindset, I say that NBs shouldn't be able to bring down a heavily armoured Templar or Dragonknight with just two strikes. Because NB is a simple a "rogue" class as you insist.
Yet that obvious is happening in Cyrodiil the last 5 years. Hell, the only class that can recover and beat the NBs is the Magicka sorcerers and DKs.

So, be thankful NBs escaped with just those few tweaks. The nerfhammer should have been heavier.

---

And a history lesson. DAOC had similar PVP system with ESO. What killed the whole game PVP "selling point", was the huge amount of CC, against a pitiful amount of non existing "anti-CC". With a cherry on top, 3 very powerful stealth classes one-two shooting everyone and not giving a chance to the defender to react.

Exactly what's happening in Cyrodiil 5 years now. FYI many of the DAOC game designers worked and working on ESO.

Also if you ask people around, they will tell you that the best memorable experience in Cyrodiil, was when they met another "non stealth", "non one shoot trick pony", non jumping around like a fricking rabbit player, and had a battle lasting 15+ minutes. And what puts off the significant majority of the player base, is one shoot OP gang builds, which doesn't allow for anyone to react, making their whole Cyrodiil experience an endless trip on a horse trying to get to the battle and never getting there.

That is why always advocated less CC, less ganging possibilities, and more long lasting fights resembling a war at Cyrodiil, not another mission for the Dark Brotherhood.

You must have gotten trollolololed by every stamblade you could never catch. Talking about larger nerfs like this isn’t already crippling....

15 minute duels... aka stall builds.

I don’t even play stamblade but it’s pretty obvious you bagged any and every stamblade you ever managed to kill.

The trouble with the "quickly kill" anything classes (in any game) is that they're frequently designed in a way that renders them unplayable.

For example, consider what we saw in City of Heroes/Villains. They created a class called a "Stalker," very like the Nightblade. The class was designed to attack, hit VERY hard and kill the enemy quickly, because they really didn't have the ability to survive a protracted battle... very like the Nightblade.

However, what happened was that they were attacking and killing other players without the other player having ANY chance to counterattack or otherwise defend themselves. Keep in mind this was how it was INTENDED to be. However, for the Stalker's target, it was NO FUN at all, because there was nothing to do. You were attacked, and dead before you could do anything. What fun.

This resulted in ONLY Stalkers going to the PvP zones, and since they were always invisible, there was NO MORE PvP. There might have been a hundred people in the zone, but they were all invisible Stalkers, so they could never find each other... and no one else could go in there because they were a target with no gameplay for themselves.

Here, we have Nightblades. I've experienced it myself in Cyrodiil, where I'm running along and suddenly drop dead. I never see the attacker, and have no opportunity to counter or heal or do anything else. It's not any fun, so why would I go there?

So the problem is the initial design premise. You can't make a class who is intended to defeat an enemy too fast for them to react or play the game themselves, because it leads to no one even trying. Thus, the Nightblades get nerfs.

However, if they're going to nerf them in a way that allows people to counter or heal or something, then the Nightblade needs to be BUFFED in a way that allows them to survive more protracted battles and more numerous foes.

Shadowasrial wrote: »

Now the only way to give major fracture is mark target which defeats the purpose of surprise. When you get marked I bet you buff up and probably block until we attack. So it defeats the purpose of the mark.

I'm a Nightblade main (as in, it was my first character, but I honestly play everything), so I understand what you're saying. But... You can just apply Mark Target after you open on someone. Sure, you lose the effect of it on the opening hit (compared to using it beforehand; which you wouldn't have had with Surprise Attack, anyway) and you lose the GCD you have to spend on Mark post-opener now, but you can still surprise your target and end up functioning quite well.

And on the bright side, you could also use Mark as a misdirection. Mark some random dude to make him suddenly start playing defensively for a few seconds and then open on someone else who let their guard down while thinking you'll be going after the marked target. Psychological warfare is good fun in PvP.

I've mained brawler sNB for over 4 years, I refuse to rely on the gimmick of invisibility to win fights. Now the only strength that the class has relies on playing as a ganker. Stam NB has been pigeonholed into this one play style. After thousands and thousands of hours developing non-cookie cutter builds the playstyle is being dragged out from under my feet. I heavily considered quitting the game today, instead I changed the name of my main to Tarn the Fallen... he is my new crafting mule...

eso_lags wrote: »

I dont think zos should be nerfing classes, i think they should be buffing classes that dont have as much as classes like nightblade, warden, necromancer, etc.. However, you are wrong about everything.

Nightblades are probably the best class for solo. They are very good at 1vx because they can kite like no one else with cloak and image. Plus they have massive damage to take down individual targets and move on to the next one. At least stam blades.

But the real point is their kit. Nightblades have access to so much. So many buffs, so many debuffs. So many combos and so many counters. Im not going to list them all out but there is a lot. The 4 strongest skills are definitely taking a hit, but the class will be fine. Again, i think zos should buff instead of nerf but apparently they wont.

The problem with buffing the classes is that you run the risk of trivializing all the content of the game (indeed, this is already an issue).