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Gold buying by real money is a bad practice in ESO - Please Restrict it!
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wolfie1.0.✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭I run around in PVP on my Super Cool Psijic Wolf mount. It makes me look so awesome that my enemies just beg to be slaughtered by me. People and mobs, and end game dungeons just toss gold my way because i look so awesome.5 -
TheDarkShadow✭✭✭✭✭
✭I can make about 100k gold/day ingame. I rather buy crown store stuffs with gold and save real money for sub, chapters, store exclusive houses, upgrading computer... I don't care if they "win", they can have the gold. I have what I want, I also "win". ZoS get the real money, they "win" too. Everyone "win", so I see no reason to stop it.4 -
N00BxV1✭✭✭✭✭
✭Zos should just let us buy gold directly from the crownstore and cut out the middlemen. Since it’s not P2W or anything. /s2 -
Gilvoth✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭the ones that complain about it are properly the ones running the gold selling websites, losing out since this happens
there we go, now we see the truth.
your comment is the real reason this thread.
because so far in this thread we have seen zero reason to call it pay to win.
thank you for open our eyes with truth.
and yes i am being serious.2 -
xilfxlegion✭✭✭✭✭xilfxlegion wrote: »KaraBela94 wrote: »You really need to learn the definition of Pay2Win seriously
I know the definition very well.
Gold is used for power too, such as buying gear/upgrading the gear/bidding on guild traders.
There are many other uses.
If gold is available for real life money, it is P2W.
This definition is much broader.
no ---- because gold doesnt help you win anything in this game. you cant just make up your own definition
You can have a different opinion on that matter but to say that gold does not make you stronger is a complete lie. You can buy armor, weapons, potions, poisens and change skills with gold. If you can buy gold for real life money it is pay to win. Because there is not a good way to buy gold for real life money and you can be scamed, it still falls in a grey area for me. But ZOS and the community should be more carefully when it comes to pay to win. If there are more and more and more ways real life money effects the game like buying Skyshards or store exclusive crafting stiles, than the gameplay will always suffer. I want more game and less buying dumb stuff. I have nothing against giving money to ZOS but there are just so little cool costumes and items in the crown store.
nothing you can buy with gold in this game will make you any better than if you didnt have gold. anything you can get with gold you can farm in the game. selling crown store items for in game gold is not pay to win, opinion or not --- it just simply isnt.4 -
Victor_Blade✭✭✭✭Crown store items are basically cosmetics and they don't change how your character performs in fights or anything. Just makes them or their equipment look different. I fail to see your point, altho I've been been in a crown store item trading.3 -
drkfrontiers✭✭✭✭✭
✭Its a cool feature and P2W argument is moot as anything in the game is attainable with some effort. Go play EVE Online and then see P2W..."One must still have chaos in oneself to be able to give birth to a dancing star."
~ Friedrich Nietzsche5 -
p_tsakirisb16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭It's pure P2W for the reasons I mentioned.
How is P2W? What exactly you win? 99% of the gear is either crafted or bound dropsI believe it is P2W.
Define Pay 2 Win in this case? How someone exchanging Crowns to Gold make him "win".
Easy to throw mud on the fan, saying "this is P2W" you need to back up how something like that is "winning".
If it was EVE Online, yeah we would be talking about P2W. But this game doesn't have player driven economy, nor it affects your performance and your ability to do things.
6 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
It is not P2W.
If you really want to gripe about gold buying you would be complaining about how long it takes for Zos to ban bot accounts. That is where the real issue is so please get priorities straight.
I disagree.
Though it is for sure Pay for too much convenience.
You really need to read what you quote before you respond.
You just disagreed to a quote where most of the comment was about bot accounts (actual gold sellers) and was saying that removing them should be a priority.
To that I say you are flat wrong. They are the most destabilizing force in a games economy and they give a huge bolster to the legitimate in game trading you are complaining about. Curb them and the in game gold value of crown items deflates. Do not curb them then everything of value in game inflates regardless.
In other words, you are sounding like you do not care if Zos permits this gold selling by the bots.
I disagreed with you regarding the crown store items for gold trade isn't P2W.
It is P2W.
I'm one of the players who perhaps reported the most bots in the game.
You can take a look on this old discussion I started about bots:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/357289/bots-apocalypse-please-stop-them#latest
Please try to not go off topic in this discussion, thanks.
You can say it is P2W all you want but that doesn’t make it so.
P2W has always meant you can buy with real month stuff that makes you stronger than what is available in game.
You can say it is P2W all you want but in this case you are wrong. As such Zos will not find a need to change things based on this thread.
The best you can do to invoke change based on your opinion is to not support it. I agree with what Code said in their post here and feel it is the real issue related to this.2 -
Juhasow✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Crown store items for gold is pure P2W.
You can't buy BiS gear in crown store, you can't buy it for gold either (two exceptions are the gold trader once per week and buying stuff from group members in trials/dungeons), so you literally CANNOT win by paying. Doesn't even matter if gold or crowns. Everything you can buy is usually not hard to get or it doesn't give you any advantage at all.
What is really happening here is that you simply dislike ingame stores, hence "I refuse to touch Crown Store exclusive motifs. I would rather they didn't exist at all" (crown store has a lot of exclusive stuff, not just motifs), and you'd like to ignore it all together but it became harder since people are able to buy those exclusive things with their gold. And that's outrageous! They shouldn't! PLEASE STAPH THEM!
It's okay to dislike things you do not agree with but at least be honest with yourself and don't cover it with pay-to-win label. It's getting old.
Of course You can buy BiS gear for gold. Even BoP one. Have You ever heared about carry runs ? You know what is the currency there ? Gold. You can easily get for example perfected siroria/relequen by paying for being carried like a bag of potatoes and getting all the loot. You can pay for vDSA carry runs and get master dual wield , destro staff or bow or perfected asulym destro staff in vAS HM without even knowing mechanics of vDSA or vAS and practicing it at all and those mentioned weapons are part of many BiS PvP setups that will give You many times adventage over players who dont have them. You can buy rare items that normally You would spend weeks or months on farming and retraiting just by buying them already with perfect traits for the gold You earned in few minutes by selling crowns.
The only BiS items You cannot get faster by spending the gold atm are maelstrom weapons. Rest You can simply get by paying for it directly or through carry runs. Especially when new update hits and there are new meta setups those players paying real life money for the gold and buying those BiS items for the gold are getting real adventage over people who play game normally and do not have accumulated large amounts of gold which takes some time to accomplish.
I personally know someone who is selling crowns for gold and he openly says "why should I spend time on playing the game the way I dont like and farm or progress through stuff , if I can just take weekend shift in my job which isnt even hard because in weekends there isnt much to do and for money I'll earn I can get everything I need in the game way faster then it would take normally"
Definition of pay to win You've linked describes excatly what's happening in ESO through gifting. You can buy the gold for real money and get certain BiS items instantly while there are "those playing for free who might otherwise need to spend time progressing in order to unlock said items". If that is definition of p2w then ESO is game with p2w element within.Edited by Juhasow on April 14, 2019 6:21PM3 -
Jayman1000✭✭✭✭✭
✭It does NOT increase inflation of ingame prices. No gold is being produced by this, gold only changes hands here. Hence nothing is inflated. If anything it could possibly cause deflation because more goods are being produced out of the crown store than would be without this system (assuming some of the goods or similar goods could have been purchased by ingame gold consumation at game vendors).
It gives competition to real money trading (the tos-breaking bad kind) and obviously this is a benefit: it allows players to buy gold legitimately + zos earns more cash.
And yes it is a type of P2W, but a mild indirect form. You gain no direct advantage in game play, personally I think it's fine.
Edited by Jayman1000 on April 14, 2019 6:21PM0 -
adriant1978✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Not only should it not be limited, it should be expanded. I would like ESO to incorporate a gold-to-crown/crown-to-gold system themselves, to make this process even more convenient for us.
Yes, please. I wouldn't be averse to selling a few unused Crowns since there is rarely anything good in the store these days, IMO, but I'm not risking getting scammed in /zone and neither do I want to have to join "this guild" or "that discord".2 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Jayman1000 wrote: »It does NOT increase inflation of ingame prices. No gold is being produced by this, gold only changes hands here. Hence nothing is inflated. It gives competition to real money trading (the tos-breaking bad kind) and obviously this is a benefit: it allows players to buy gold legitimately + zos earns more cash.
And yes it is a type of P2W, but a mild indirect form. You gain no direct advantage in game play, personally I think it's fine.
You are right that this is not what leads to inflation. However it does not really provide competition to the real gold sellers. It actually helps the real gold sellers because I can now buy gold from them and pay you that gold to get a big home for a fraction of what you actually paid for it.
The real gold sellers add gold to the market and that ends up inflating the price of everything, including crown trading. If Zos does not work to keep bots in check that is exactly what will happen. It has happened in other games.
So Zos needs to actually get serous about going after the bots again, like they did the first month or two of the game.Edited by idk on April 14, 2019 6:23PM0 -
bharathitman✭✭✭✭Crowns are terribly expensive for an average individual buy in countries outside of the United States, I am glad that the gifting system exists for people who cannot afford to buy crowns using RL money. There is a reason why EU servers have a higher gold to crown exchange rate when compared to NA servers. Crowns are relatively expensive to buy in eastern european countries, an average individual with less income cannot afford to shell out for crowns.
Crown sellers are trading their real life money for in-game gold which can be farmed pretty easily, the only thing that is traded here is time & effort (in the form of gold) by 2 parties. There is nothing wrong with it, lot of people cry P2W but do not understand what it actually is.
3 -
Linaleah✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭MartiniDaniels wrote: »prototypefb wrote: »MartiniDaniels wrote: »Probably OP is concerned that if some people want to dominate trading market they may just sell 100k+ crowns for 30mil+ and bid for good trader which will leave out other guilds who earned let's say 20mil from trading and member donations. This scenario is probably possible and even takes place in reality (remember those strange guilds which are appearing in deshaan with poor listings for couple of weeks and then vanishing god knows where), but now there is not so big demand for crowns to make that an issue.
Still if we talk about established trading guilds and if they have rich IRL members, those guilds will have strong advantage and it will be literally P2W (in terms of trading place and prestige).
i don't see any1 spending rl money to hire a guild trader... seems far fetched.
if they do, then they must hate opposing guild very much and i feel for them(not rly, idc).
tipically large guild alliances conspire and bid on weak opponent spots to hurt competition and possibly get the spot in new upcomming guild of their own in future.
You probably didn't play other MMO's. Rich or even not so rich guys sometimes may spent their entire salary to get that fancy item or skin, and cost might be much higher then those 100k crowns. In ESO's case it's whole guild, prestige and respectable place. So if such person lands in ESO, only thing that prevents him from dominating trading spots is that demand for crown gifts is not so big to provide stable sales of hundred thousands of crowns.
how many trading spots can a single person feasibly dominate? bidding is once a week - how long are they are going to manage to do that? and for how long? and most importantly - WHY??
dirty worthless casual.
Lois McMaster Bujold "A Civil Campaign"Reputation is what other people know about you. Honor is what you know about yourself. Guard your honor. Let your reputation fall where it will. And outlive the ***0 -
Bouldercleave✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Crown store items for gold is pure P2W.
You can't buy BiS gear in crown store, you can't buy it for gold either (two exceptions are the gold trader once per week and buying stuff from group members in trials/dungeons), so you literally CANNOT win by paying. Doesn't even matter if gold or crowns. Everything you can buy is usually not hard to get or it doesn't give you any advantage at all.
What is really happening here is that you simply dislike ingame stores, hence "I refuse to touch Crown Store exclusive motifs. I would rather they didn't exist at all" (crown store has a lot of exclusive stuff, not just motifs), and you'd like to ignore it all together but it became harder since people are able to buy those exclusive things with their gold. And that's outrageous! They shouldn't! PLEASE STAPH THEM!
It's okay to dislike things you do not agree with but at least be honest with yourself and don't cover it with pay-to-win label. It's getting old.
Of course You can buy BiS gear for gold. Even BoP one. Have You ever heared about carry runs ? You know what is the currency there ? Gold. You can easily get for example perfected siroria/relequen by paying for being carried like a bag of potatoes and getting all the loot. You can pay for vDSA carry runs and get master dual wield , destro staff or bow or perfected asulym destro staff in vAS HM without even knowing mechanics of vDSA or vAS and practicing it at all and those mentioned weapons are part of many BiS PvP setups that will give You many times adventage over players who dont have them. You can buy rare items that normally You would spend weeks or months on farming and retraiting just by buying them already with perfect traits for the gold You earned in few minutes by selling crowns.
The only BiS items You cannot get faster by spending the gold atm are maelstrom weapons. Rest You can simply get by paying for it directly or through carry runs. Especially when new update hits and there are new meta setups those players paying real life money for the gold and buying those BiS items for the gold are getting real adventage over people who play game normally and do not have accumulated large amounts of gold which takes some time to accomplish.
I personally know someone who is selling crowns for gold and he openly says "why should I spend time on playing the game the way I dont like and farm or progress through stuff , if I can just take weekend shift in my job which isnt even hard because in weekends there isnt much to do and for money I'll earn I can get everything I need in the game way faster then it would take normally"
Definition of pay to win You've linked describes excatly what's happening in ESO through gifting. You can buy the gold for real money and get certain BiS items instantly while there are "those playing for free who might otherwise need to spend time progressing in order to unlock said items". If that is definition of p2w then ESO is game with p2w element within.
Is it really all that game breaking that some people are willing to exchange real money for gold via crowns and then use that gold to get carried through a dungeon to get Bis gear?
I just don't see where this is a big deal. In full disclosure, I have not used the crowns for gold process as I have accumulated a few million in gold already and I can't find anything to spend it on as it is. I donate a bunch to my trading guild and make about 500,000 a week just doing crafting writs and simple adventuring.
0 -
SKYICE01✭✭✭its funny that people do this. Just normal buying Gold on websites Gives you so much for your money. So make it like BDO where you cant trade gold at all.
2 -
Linaleah✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭xilfxlegion wrote: »KaraBela94 wrote: »You really need to learn the definition of Pay2Win seriously
I know the definition very well.
Gold is used for power too, such as buying gear/upgrading the gear/bidding on guild traders.
There are many other uses.
If gold is available for real life money, it is P2W.
This definition is much broader.
no ---- because gold doesnt help you win anything in this game. you cant just make up your own definition
You can have a different opinion on that matter but to say that gold does not make you stronger is a complete lie. You can buy armor, weapons, potions, poisens and change skills with gold. If you can buy gold for real life money it is pay to win. Because there is not a good way to buy gold for real life money and you can be scamed, it still falls in a grey area for me. But ZOS and the community should be more carefully when it comes to pay to win. If there are more and more and more ways real life money effects the game like buying Skyshards or store exclusive crafting stiles, than the gameplay will always suffer. I want more game and less buying dumb stuff. I have nothing against giving money to ZOS but there are just so little cool costumes and items in the crown store.
there is one little but crucial problem with this reasoning.
there is absolutely NO gear in this game that can make you a better player. skill requirement in this game is far far FAR too high for that.
this is a game where you can have someone wearing houndings set ( which doesn't take long to craft at all, its a 6 trait set) and a world drops set (taht can be farmed very easily solo) - doing 5 times as much dps as someone who went on a bunch of nCR pugs and got themselves a full set of relequen. because performance in this game at the core is NOT. about. gear. oh gear helps. in skilled hands - gear can help quite a bit. but it is NOT and has never been a crutch that drastically changes player performance. it can only improve on a skill that is already there.
so someone with a deep wallet is not going to be able to crush someone who spent hours and hours practicing their rotation. and someone who is particularly good at the game - is not going to need to open the wallet in a first place, cause they are going to be able to get the best gear the old fashioned way. good players tend to always be in demand.
P.S. crafting styles are literally just appearance customization. there is nothing different in terms of wearing grim harlequin appearance vs.. I don't know... rank one redguard style, other then looks.dirty worthless casual.
Lois McMaster Bujold "A Civil Campaign"Reputation is what other people know about you. Honor is what you know about yourself. Guard your honor. Let your reputation fall where it will. And outlive the ***5 -
xeNNNNN✭✭✭✭✭
✭Please stop using "P2W" and "Pay for Convenience" next to each other as if they're basically the same thing. They are not.Ah, e-communities - the "pinnacle" of the internet............yeah, right.5 -
Juhasow✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Bouldercleave wrote: »Crown store items for gold is pure P2W.
You can't buy BiS gear in crown store, you can't buy it for gold either (two exceptions are the gold trader once per week and buying stuff from group members in trials/dungeons), so you literally CANNOT win by paying. Doesn't even matter if gold or crowns. Everything you can buy is usually not hard to get or it doesn't give you any advantage at all.
What is really happening here is that you simply dislike ingame stores, hence "I refuse to touch Crown Store exclusive motifs. I would rather they didn't exist at all" (crown store has a lot of exclusive stuff, not just motifs), and you'd like to ignore it all together but it became harder since people are able to buy those exclusive things with their gold. And that's outrageous! They shouldn't! PLEASE STAPH THEM!
It's okay to dislike things you do not agree with but at least be honest with yourself and don't cover it with pay-to-win label. It's getting old.
Of course You can buy BiS gear for gold. Even BoP one. Have You ever heared about carry runs ? You know what is the currency there ? Gold. You can easily get for example perfected siroria/relequen by paying for being carried like a bag of potatoes and getting all the loot. You can pay for vDSA carry runs and get master dual wield , destro staff or bow or perfected asulym destro staff in vAS HM without even knowing mechanics of vDSA or vAS and practicing it at all and those mentioned weapons are part of many BiS PvP setups that will give You many times adventage over players who dont have them. You can buy rare items that normally You would spend weeks or months on farming and retraiting just by buying them already with perfect traits for the gold You earned in few minutes by selling crowns.
The only BiS items You cannot get faster by spending the gold atm are maelstrom weapons. Rest You can simply get by paying for it directly or through carry runs. Especially when new update hits and there are new meta setups those players paying real life money for the gold and buying those BiS items for the gold are getting real adventage over people who play game normally and do not have accumulated large amounts of gold which takes some time to accomplish.
I personally know someone who is selling crowns for gold and he openly says "why should I spend time on playing the game the way I dont like and farm or progress through stuff , if I can just take weekend shift in my job which isnt even hard because in weekends there isnt much to do and for money I'll earn I can get everything I need in the game way faster then it would take normally"
Definition of pay to win You've linked describes excatly what's happening in ESO through gifting. You can buy the gold for real money and get certain BiS items instantly while there are "those playing for free who might otherwise need to spend time progressing in order to unlock said items". If that is definition of p2w then ESO is game with p2w element within.
Is it really all that game breaking that some people are willing to exchange real money for gold via crowns and then use that gold to get carried through a dungeon to get Bis gear?
I just don't see where this is a big deal. In full disclosure, I have not used the crowns for gold process as I have accumulated a few million in gold already and I can't find anything to spend it on as it is. I donate a bunch to my trading guild and make about 500,000 a week just doing crafting writs and simple adventuring.
It's not about is it or is it not game breaking but is p2w element exist or not. Some people will say it's game breaking some will say it isnt but it's not the point of discussion here.
I think Your point of view here is slightly blurred because You look at that subject from the perspective of someone who have been playing for a long time and actively been doing things bringing benefit. How long it took You to get to that point though ? Because now other people can get to that point in few hours without even playing the game. That is the difference that brings concerns.0 -
StormeReigns✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Hmm. Whose more factually accurate...
Antivax, the Op, Flat Nirn'ers, or Mother goose rhymes?Edited by StormeReigns on April 14, 2019 6:57PM2 -
Ryknos✭✭✭I'm sorry but this actually doesn't cause inflation at all, the main reason being that you can't sell Crown items in a trading store. Even if you were able to, you'd have to inflate every trading store out there and that's impossible because not every trading store is the same.0 -
Bouldercleave✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Bouldercleave wrote: »Crown store items for gold is pure P2W.
You can't buy BiS gear in crown store, you can't buy it for gold either (two exceptions are the gold trader once per week and buying stuff from group members in trials/dungeons), so you literally CANNOT win by paying. Doesn't even matter if gold or crowns. Everything you can buy is usually not hard to get or it doesn't give you any advantage at all.
What is really happening here is that you simply dislike ingame stores, hence "I refuse to touch Crown Store exclusive motifs. I would rather they didn't exist at all" (crown store has a lot of exclusive stuff, not just motifs), and you'd like to ignore it all together but it became harder since people are able to buy those exclusive things with their gold. And that's outrageous! They shouldn't! PLEASE STAPH THEM!
It's okay to dislike things you do not agree with but at least be honest with yourself and don't cover it with pay-to-win label. It's getting old.
Of course You can buy BiS gear for gold. Even BoP one. Have You ever heared about carry runs ? You know what is the currency there ? Gold. You can easily get for example perfected siroria/relequen by paying for being carried like a bag of potatoes and getting all the loot. You can pay for vDSA carry runs and get master dual wield , destro staff or bow or perfected asulym destro staff in vAS HM without even knowing mechanics of vDSA or vAS and practicing it at all and those mentioned weapons are part of many BiS PvP setups that will give You many times adventage over players who dont have them. You can buy rare items that normally You would spend weeks or months on farming and retraiting just by buying them already with perfect traits for the gold You earned in few minutes by selling crowns.
The only BiS items You cannot get faster by spending the gold atm are maelstrom weapons. Rest You can simply get by paying for it directly or through carry runs. Especially when new update hits and there are new meta setups those players paying real life money for the gold and buying those BiS items for the gold are getting real adventage over people who play game normally and do not have accumulated large amounts of gold which takes some time to accomplish.
I personally know someone who is selling crowns for gold and he openly says "why should I spend time on playing the game the way I dont like and farm or progress through stuff , if I can just take weekend shift in my job which isnt even hard because in weekends there isnt much to do and for money I'll earn I can get everything I need in the game way faster then it would take normally"
Definition of pay to win You've linked describes excatly what's happening in ESO through gifting. You can buy the gold for real money and get certain BiS items instantly while there are "those playing for free who might otherwise need to spend time progressing in order to unlock said items". If that is definition of p2w then ESO is game with p2w element within.
Is it really all that game breaking that some people are willing to exchange real money for gold via crowns and then use that gold to get carried through a dungeon to get Bis gear?
I just don't see where this is a big deal. In full disclosure, I have not used the crowns for gold process as I have accumulated a few million in gold already and I can't find anything to spend it on as it is. I donate a bunch to my trading guild and make about 500,000 a week just doing crafting writs and simple adventuring.
It's not about is it or is it not game breaking but is p2w element exist or not. Some people will say it's game breaking some will say it isnt but it's not the point of discussion here.
I think Your point of view here is slightly blurred because You look at that subject from the perspective of someone who have been playing for a long time and actively been doing things bringing benefit. How long it took You to get to that point though ? Because now other people can get to that point in few hours without even playing the game. That is the difference that brings concerns.
Why does it bring concerns that someone can achieve it faster than I did? Why would one even care that someone else has the same thing quicker?
I've enjoyed the game a long while and have built 8 very distinctive adventurers / crafters. Other people want certain things faster so they can jump right into PvP or end game trials. Why would I have a porblem with that if I am enjoying my aspects of the game?
a PvPer that has "bought" Bis gear through carries is easy to see on the battlefield - they are the ones needing a res...2 -
Wavek✭✭✭I think some people just want to take a shortcut. I dont like any game allowing a real money to gold exchange but it doesn't necessarily hurt ESO. In a game like ESO, having more gold does not make you better than anyone else. Nothing in ESO that is purchasable from another player is hard to get or unavailable to those who have less gold.2
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Juhasow✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭the ones that complain about it are properly the ones running the gold selling websites, losing out since this happens
To be fair I made a reasearch about that theory for PC EU server and frankly it looks like it's quite opposite. Buying the gold from websites and then buying crown store items for that gold allows You to get those crown store items 2x cheaper then if You would buy them directly from ESO store. It's perfect deal for new players that want crown store items and do not have gold to get them in game and dont give a damm it's illegal in terms of ToS. It also propably increases the sales for those websites that sells the gold propably obtained through bots and other shady memes (1 of those sellers was offering like ~1,5 billion to sell in total and was claiming it was obtained through natural methods lel).1 -
CassandraGemini✭✭✭✭✭
✭I haven't read the whole thread, so I apologize if something like this has been said before, but did you consider the other side of things? I have done this once - paid someone else gold and got a Crown Store item gifted instead - when I had only played a few weeks and hadn't subscribed to ESO+ yet, so I didn't have any Crowns to speak of myself (besides the initial 500), but I really wanted one of the Crown Store pets. On the other hand I didn't want it enough that I would have been willing to pay money just for that, but I wasn't at the point where I thought about a subscription yet, so... I think for these exact cases the gifting is a great thing, and while I could agree to restricting it somewhat, so people don't use their real world financial advantages they might have over others to literally buy in-game advantages in the form of gold, I wouldn't want to have this possibility disappear completely.This poor little Bosmer stealth passive had passionate friends and a big loving family!1 -
carlos424✭✭✭✭✭This is a purely money-making strategy from ZOS. You really can’t blame them. Why shouldnt they benefit from people buying gold? People are going online to do it, so they just keep it in-house and cut out the middle men. It does feel a bit wrong to me, and it is definitely effecting the game. For instance I have noticed more guild trader spots being bought by one, or a few people, in prime locations, with little or nothing to sell. They are obviously buying gold to do this, and I would guess it is from selling crowns “legally.” Also, if you are a person that is playing the game for the housing, furnishing recipe’s, etc., it can be argued that the more gold you have to buy rare items the more you are “winning.” : )Edited by carlos424 on April 14, 2019 7:23PM1
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Jayman1000✭✭✭✭✭
✭Jayman1000 wrote: »It does NOT increase inflation of ingame prices. No gold is being produced by this, gold only changes hands here. Hence nothing is inflated. It gives competition to real money trading (the tos-breaking bad kind) and obviously this is a benefit: it allows players to buy gold legitimately + zos earns more cash.
And yes it is a type of P2W, but a mild indirect form. You gain no direct advantage in game play, personally I think it's fine.
You are right that this is not what leads to inflation. However it does not really provide competition to the real gold sellers. It actually helps the real gold sellers because I can now buy gold from them and pay you that gold to get a big home for a fraction of what you actually paid for it.
The real gold sellers add gold to the market and that ends up inflating the price of everything, including crown trading. If Zos does not work to keep bots in check that is exactly what will happen. It has happened in other games.
So Zos needs to actually get serous about going after the bots again, like they did the first month or two of the game.
well ok I agree that it only partly competes with illegit gold selling, but when you are saying that it also lets people buy cheap gold from illegit gold sellers and then buy tons of items from people selling crown store items, I think you are forgetting that this then actually leads to increased crown sales. So it's part competition part somewhat symbiotic. Zos may not publicly applaud this, but the fact that they now actually benefit from that business also, surely they cannot see that as bad? Previously all the profit of gold selling just went straight to illegit gold sellers, but now zos gets crown store sales boost from it... cynically speaking this is also a way for zos to benefit from illegit gold sellers without actually selling gold.
"The real gold sellers add gold to the market and that ends up inflating the price of everything, including crown trading.". No, again, as I said before, this requires producing gold from thin air, for exampling exploiting, hacking or gold produced from selling trash items from grinded mobs (though I cannot believe these methods can amount to much, hacking exploiting must be very prone to get discovered by zos (which can then take the gold out of the game negating any inflationary effect) or they have to grind a long time for monsters trash items that doesn't sell for much gold. This last method is basically the only legit way to produce gold, and it is not very effective. So the only legit way to cause inflation is not very effective).
Gold sellers has to get their gold from somewhere right? so they can either buy it from others players and resell it (a sort of flipping I guess) which does NOT increase inflation, or they can gather ressources, gear, motifs etc and sell them which also does not create inflation, this actually causes deflation. And then lastly, as I mentioned they could grind monsters and sell the trash items to npc vendors for gold, which does then create inflation (it's like printing gold), but you dont get much gold from trash items from monsters so I doubt this can have much influence on the economy.
Bottom line, I fail to see how the crown store trade can cause inflation. Take a look at most prices of ingame items btw, most things have been falling in price over time.Edited by Jayman1000 on April 14, 2019 7:35PM0 -
Lyserus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭If that is pay to win, then every dlc/chapter with exclusive skill lines/ armor sets are pay to win, how about we stop that too?
Learn the definition of pay to win3 -
Hallothiel✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I never get what the ‘win’ is in this game.
What do I ‘win’, exactly?
And this gold for crown (items) is fine. Stop mithering over nothing.3
This discussion has been closed.