Allow storage container access through banker?

Kuramas9tails · April 2019

Do you think that if you bought the banker that you should be allowed to access your storage containers that are placed in your home from anywhere in the world? (I also think guild traders and guild banks should be accessed through the banker too but...ZOS)

I know this would be a little bit of a hassle since (I assume) storage containers are only loaded when going inside your house so it would have to be coded to be accessed without loading into the home.

Nestor · April 2019

No

While it would be convenient, Housing Storage is Offline Storage. As you say, you need to load your house, and quite frankly, the individual container to access it.

On line storage, like your character, and your bank, are loaded with the character. That can have an impact on performance. How much an impact, who knows, but the devs made housing storage off line for a reason.

So, sounds good, but the performance implications could be an issue.

John_Falstaff · April 2019

No

Nestor wrote: »

While it would be convenient, Housing Storage is Offline Storage. As you say, you need to load your house, and quite frankly, the individual container to access it.

On line storage, like your character, and your bank, are loaded with the character. That can have an impact on performance. How much an impact, who knows, but the devs made housing storage off line for a reason.

So, sounds good, but the performance implications could be an issue.

Regardless of the conversation topic, I should say that we don't have enough information to tell for sure whether bank contents is necessarily cached in memory as soon as character is loaded. "Storage not accessible from everywhere" != "offline storage", just like "storage available from anywhere in game" != "storage cached in memory". I'm not saying it cannot be the case, but it shouldn't be presented as an axiom; it's just guesswork.

idk · April 2019

No

Nestor wrote: »

While it would be convenient, Housing Storage is Offline Storage. As you say, you need to load your house, and quite frankly, the individual container to access it.

On line storage, like your character, and your bank, are loaded with the character. That can have an impact on performance. How much an impact, who knows, but the devs made housing storage off line for a reason.

So, sounds good, but the performance implications could be an issue.

I have to agree with this.

Also, Zos made it clear these containers could not be accessed via the banker. It is possible this is not an easy change and probably not worth the effort to ties these into the banker.

John can say we may not have enough information on the matter, but some things seem fairly logical and these are worthy points to bring up unless one wants to discuss things in a vacuum which is often pointless.

Nestor · April 2019

No

John_Falstaff wrote: »

Nestor wrote: »

While it would be convenient, Housing Storage is Offline Storage. As you say, you need to load your house, and quite frankly, the individual container to access it.

On line storage, like your character, and your bank, are loaded with the character. That can have an impact on performance. How much an impact, who knows, but the devs made housing storage off line for a reason.

So, sounds good, but the performance implications could be an issue.

Regardless of the conversation topic, I should say that we don't have enough information to tell for sure whether bank contents is necessarily cached in memory as soon as character is loaded. "Storage not accessible from everywhere" != "offline storage", just like "storage available from anywhere in game" != "storage cached in memory". I'm not saying it cannot be the case, but it shouldn't be presented as an axiom; it's just guesswork.

Yes we do. The devs told us the housing storage is treated as off line storage back when they told us about it. It is the reason we cant access the storage from the banker now.

idk · April 2019

No

Nestor wrote: »

John_Falstaff wrote: »

Nestor wrote: »

While it would be convenient, Housing Storage is Offline Storage. As you say, you need to load your house, and quite frankly, the individual container to access it.

On line storage, like your character, and your bank, are loaded with the character. That can have an impact on performance. How much an impact, who knows, but the devs made housing storage off line for a reason.

So, sounds good, but the performance implications could be an issue.

Regardless of the conversation topic, I should say that we don't have enough information to tell for sure whether bank contents is necessarily cached in memory as soon as character is loaded. "Storage not accessible from everywhere" != "offline storage", just like "storage available from anywhere in game" != "storage cached in memory". I'm not saying it cannot be the case, but it shouldn't be presented as an axiom; it's just guesswork.

Yes we do. The devs told us the housing storage is treated as off line storage back when they told us about it. It is the reason we cant access the storage from the banker now.

Very good memory.

DaveMoeDee · April 2019

I assume you are talking about additional dialog options with the banker to access each container.

Yes, I would enjoy this change.

No, I don't think it is a good design. I don't think it makes sense conceptually.

idk · April 2019

No

DaveMoeDee wrote: »

I assume you are talking about additional dialog options with the banker to access each container.

Yes, I would enjoy this change.

No, I don't think it is a good design. I don't think it makes sense conceptually.

It is not a good idea conceptually to have storage tied to housing as so many asked for?

It seems to have been a stellar idea with all the threads that came out after launch of housing asking for being able to store items in chests in ones home. It is pretty much what people asked for.

John_Falstaff · April 2019

No

Nestor wrote: »

John_Falstaff wrote: »

Nestor wrote: »

While it would be convenient, Housing Storage is Offline Storage. As you say, you need to load your house, and quite frankly, the individual container to access it.

On line storage, like your character, and your bank, are loaded with the character. That can have an impact on performance. How much an impact, who knows, but the devs made housing storage off line for a reason.

So, sounds good, but the performance implications could be an issue.

Regardless of the conversation topic, I should say that we don't have enough information to tell for sure whether bank contents is necessarily cached in memory as soon as character is loaded. "Storage not accessible from everywhere" != "offline storage", just like "storage available from anywhere in game" != "storage cached in memory". I'm not saying it cannot be the case, but it shouldn't be presented as an axiom; it's just guesswork.

Yes we do. The devs told us the housing storage is treated as off line storage back when they told us about it. It is the reason we cant access the storage from the banker now.

I have not seen the reference; was it in one of the video interviews? If yes, I'll believe it (though I should've stopped believing anything devs say when they started to lie big time about bugs in group finder they're of course going to fix). It does make sense, just needs confirmation.

idk · April 2019

No

John_Falstaff wrote: »

Nestor wrote: »

John_Falstaff wrote: »

Nestor wrote: »

While it would be convenient, Housing Storage is Offline Storage. As you say, you need to load your house, and quite frankly, the individual container to access it.

On line storage, like your character, and your bank, are loaded with the character. That can have an impact on performance. How much an impact, who knows, but the devs made housing storage off line for a reason.

So, sounds good, but the performance implications could be an issue.

Regardless of the conversation topic, I should say that we don't have enough information to tell for sure whether bank contents is necessarily cached in memory as soon as character is loaded. "Storage not accessible from everywhere" != "offline storage", just like "storage available from anywhere in game" != "storage cached in memory". I'm not saying it cannot be the case, but it shouldn't be presented as an axiom; it's just guesswork.

Yes we do. The devs told us the housing storage is treated as off line storage back when they told us about it. It is the reason we cant access the storage from the banker now.

I have not seen the reference; was it in one of the video interviews? If yes, I'll believe it (though I should've stopped believing anything devs say when they started to lie big time about bugs in group finder they're of course going to fix). It does make sense, just needs confirmation.

I agree Zos loss credibility when they lied about not knowing GF was fixed. However what Nestor stated is also something easy to grasp just looking at this logically since the more items that need to be loaded the longer it would take.

Bank inventory is likely not kept in active memory as it would just add to lag for many players and it is also likely stored server side, not client side.

cpuScientist · April 2019

No

I do not want it SIMPLY because they have to have reasons for housing to go to your houses I mean. If we can just get it from the bank then what's the house even there for

They need to add More MOAR things that make us have to go to a house IMHO also add a darn wayshrine...

But whatever

zaria · April 2019

Other

Think the problem is that the storage container is part of your house instance.

John_Falstaff · April 2019

No

@idk , well, it's more about how it's put - I'm sort of against shushing people with "no, it can't be done because <thing the person only surmised but doesn't know for sure>". Yup, it's logical to load contents of the coffers with house instance (wouldn't say the same with absolute certainty about bank - occasional delays while accessing bank can be delays with processing requests, or may be IO delays because bank's on disk and we've hit cold cache, it would also make sense not to load the bank until first request). So, while yes, there are differences about when bank and coffers are loaded, I think it very well might be that bank is also not loaded at the time of character load. Tons of various options there.

Another curious question is the average usage of memory in this case and that; depending on patterns of coffer usage - how many players and how often would dig in their coffer contents - it may be either less or even more beneficial to load coffers separately, because if someone often accesses the coffers, they use up memory for house instance (including all furniture and everything) instead of just a hundred of storage slots (I'd imagine that a single item takes about 40-50 bytes judging by the fields, so that might be much cheaper than loading a house instance). So... nothing is absolute, under some conditions and for given category of users, giving fast access to coffers will result in less memory usage.

I'd still say "no" to the topic starter, though, because it'd make coffers redundant. Basically, making coffers available would amount to providing more bank space, and - for some inexplicable reason - sectioning that space into different categories. In that case, why not simply enlarge bank space to begin with (I'd welcome that - I'm a hoarder, plus recently started life of a tank taught me that one can't have too many sets handy).

Tasear · April 2019

Yes

I will take maniqueens instead.

#HappinessIsHoarding

idk · April 2019

No

John_Falstaff wrote: »

@idk , well, it's more about how it's put - I'm sort of against shushing people with "no, it can't be done because <thing the person only surmised but doesn't know for sure>". Yup, it's logical to load contents of the coffers with house instance (wouldn't say the same with absolute certainty about bank - occasional delays while accessing bank can be delays with processing requests, or may be IO delays because bank's on disk and we've hit cold cache, it would also make sense not to load the bank until first request). So, while yes, there are differences about when bank and coffers are loaded, I think it very well might be that bank is also not loaded at the time of character load. Tons of various options there.

Another curious question is the average usage of memory in this case and that; depending on patterns of coffer usage - how many players and how often would dig in their coffer contents - it may be either less or even more beneficial to load coffers separately, because if someone often accesses the coffers, they use up memory for house instance (including all furniture and everything) instead of just a hundred of storage slots (I'd imagine that a single item takes about 40-50 bytes judging by the fields, so that might be much cheaper than loading a house instance). So... nothing is absolute, under some conditions and for given category of users, giving fast access to coffers will result in less memory usage.

I'd still say "no" to the topic starter, though, because it'd make coffers redundant. Basically, making coffers available would amount to providing more bank space, and - for some inexplicable reason - sectioning that space into different categories. In that case, why not simply enlarge bank space to begin with (I'd welcome that - I'm a hoarder, plus recently started life of a tank taught me that one can't have too many sets handy).

I would think the issue would fall more into server load at the time, not memory usage holding it in memory, though I would expect it is released from active server memory soon after we are done with the bank or coffer.

I would expect the issue falls more in line with X number of players opening their bank for 480 slots vs 480+360 slots. Take that a step further, since it is 11 different containers it would seem the load could be even more. Even if the banker had "pages" for each container it still needs to be loaded or have a lag.

I look at how the guild bank has a long delay loading as an example of what could happen.

I most certainly agree with your last point that the difference should remain a difference vs just additional bank space. I cannot read minds but it would seem Zos indented for these to be different.

I still suggest an armory (for ESO+) that would hold our bound armor. Especially if we could group sets. Set names needs to be more standard though with having sets names come first all the time. Currently the name format is not standard which is poor quality control on the part of management.

Kuramas9tails · April 2019

Yes

cpuScientist wrote: »

I do not want it SIMPLY because they have to have reasons for housing to go to your houses I mean. If we can just get it from the bank then what's the house even there for

They need to add More MOAR things that make us have to go to a house IMHO also add a darn wayshrine...

But whatever

What did we use housing for before storage?

Jeremy · April 2019

cpuScientist wrote: »

I do not want it SIMPLY because they have to have reasons for housing to go to your houses I mean. If we can just get it from the bank then what's the house even there for

They need to add More MOAR things that make us have to go to a house IMHO also add a darn wayshrine...

But whatever

True.

It does give players an actual purpose to visit their home.

Jeremy · April 2019

Kuramas9tails wrote: »

cpuScientist wrote: »

I do not want it SIMPLY because they have to have reasons for housing to go to your houses I mean. If we can just get it from the bank then what's the house even there for

They need to add More MOAR things that make us have to go to a house IMHO also add a darn wayshrine...

But whatever

What did we use housing for before storage?

Nothing really, at least from a game play perspective. It was mostly just a creative exercise - which is all fine and good. But I like for player housing to have some real benefits as well and adding storage containers did accomplish that.

Merlight · April 2019

No

Voted 'No', because immersion.

Nestor wrote: »

While it would be convenient, Housing Storage is Offline Storage. As you say, you need to load your house, and quite frankly, the individual container to access it.

On line storage, like your character, and your bank, are loaded with the character. That can have an impact on performance. How much an impact, who knows, but the devs made housing storage off line for a reason.

So, sounds good, but the performance implications could be an issue.

I can't see how this is relevant to the question presented: "Allow storage container access through banker?"

OP didn't ask for instant access. I guess they'd be fine if it worked like guild bank (let's pretend for a while guild bank access works well). That chest contents would load only after choosing it in the menu. Not loading a house in order to access a chest doesn't sound like a bad idea performance-wise.

Merlight · April 2019

No

idk wrote: »

Bank inventory is likely not kept in active memory as it would just add to lag for many players and it is also likely stored server side, not client side.

Backpack, bank and crafting bag inventories are kept in client memory, twice actually because UI scripts get their contents from the API and then cache it in Lua tables. If these were not cached client-side, the latency you'd experience for example just scrolling through your backpack, or hovering over an item waiting for the tooltip showing how many of that kind you have in different bags, would make you cry.

NordSwordnBoard · April 2019

Other

I wouldn't be able to admire how well I arranged and labelled them.

idk · April 2019

No

Merlight wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Bank inventory is likely not kept in active memory as it would just add to lag for many players and it is also likely stored server side, not client side.

Backpack, bank and crafting bag inventories are kept in client memory, twice actually because UI scripts get their contents from the API and then cache it in Lua tables. If these were not cached client-side, the latency you'd experience for example just scrolling through your backpack, or hovering over an item waiting for the tooltip showing how many of that kind you have in different bags, would make you cry.

I had forgotten about the API but not sure how that makes it certain actual contents are stored client side vs server side.

Yes, the information the addon gathers is stored client side and when you hover over an item the information about all the places it is stored is obtained from the addon information, not from the client.

I had my addon information reset somehow. Until I looked at the inventory of a character, a chest and even the bank the addons could not tell me how many of an item I had or where it was stored.

So I get what you are saying but that information is not coming from the game but what the addon has stored after it saw the inventory.

Merlight · April 2019

No

idk wrote: »

I had forgotten about the API but not sure how that makes it certain actual contents are stored client side vs server side.

Well, the UI/addon is able to scan the whole backpack by calling GetItemInfo individually for each item slot from 1 to 200 (or whatever your backpack capacity is) and this operation usually takes less time than the ping to server. So it's pretty safe to assume the backpack contents is known to the client before the UI starts asking

The Elder Scrolls Online

Allow storage container access through banker?

Allow storage container access through banker? 60 votes