Answer to "Update 22 Combat Direction" Thread - How to fix the Stamina Nightblade Meta

templesus · April 2019

Agree completely, everyone knows Stamblade nerf is incoming, why would people knowingly endorse ZOS projected changes over these? Sniker, as someone who 1vXes (the endgame of PvP) and PvEs at the endgame level, knows what he’s talking about when he’s proposing changes for the class.

enzoisadog · April 2019

yikes

xenowarrior92eb17_ESO · April 2019

ok so I have given this thread a serious readthrough and I have come to the conclusion that the point of view of OP is strictly made from PvP side and has little to none functionality on both pve and pvp as I have stated b4 unless Zo$ decides to make 2nd effects on all classes and their skills that work completely different in pvp and pve so we will finally get rid of this ridiculous kind of threads...

meanwhile

Thlepse · April 2019

edited.

Thlepse · April 2019

TheRealSniker wrote: »

Hello everyone,
if you know me then it's probably from youtube, PC EU players might know me from open world or very high MMR Battlegrounds aswell.

wuttttttttttttt

twing1_ · April 2019

Removing heavy armor scaling from shadow barrier removes the sustainable source of major ward/resolve from a pve nb tank's class arsenal.

Without heavy armor scaling, an nb pve tank would be required to cast a shadow skill every 6 seconds for 100% uptime on major ward/resolve. The cheapest shadow skill is 2700 magicka.

That would require 900 magicka regen to simply counteract this cost alone, which is not sustainable on top of the other magicka skills tanks are required to cast.

I understand that there is a heavy armor stamblade meta in PvP that must be dealt with, but the problem isn't the duration of major ward/resolve on these builds. The problem is that their spammable attack (surprise attack) grants them major ward/resolve, and moving this out of the shadow skill tree will remedy this on its own. Stamblades would then be required to use magicka skills every 9 seconds (assuming they opt for 2 heavy pieces and keep 5 medium pieces for 15% weapon damage), which is a lot harder for them to both sustain and maintain.

Please do not nerf nb PvE tanking (more than its already been nerfed with the loss of sap tanking and timestop) on account of PvP. Moving surprise attack out of the shadow tree is enough on its own. Shadow barrier doesn't need to be changed.

In regards to dark cloak being nerfed by putting points into dark veil, they should just change dark cloak so that it heals x% of health every second instead of 32% health over x seconds. That way dark veil would actually buff dark cloak, as it should.

Edit: referred to shadow barrier when I wanted to refer to dark veil

Shadow-Fighter · April 2019

Nice ideas but you cannot balance this game anymore. There are huge fundamental balance issues since One Tamriel. Nerf after nerf since Morrowind sustain changes and the heavy attack meta killed "niche" builts.

Many average players with "niche" builts was successful in end game. Today you should be use meta builts to be successful.

I for one didnt played PVE end game (vet trials) since 2 years, because of the bad Morrowind sustain changes.

Generally its not about the x class that should be nerfed or buffed, its about the whole balance concept with tons of sets, cp, etc that should be fixed asap.

Note: Targetting only one thing will create other major issues.

Sanguinor2 · April 2019

Seems good to me honestly, Stamblade has nerfs a Long time coming since I cant see any Intention from zos to bring other classes to their Level.
If These changes were to happen and you are concerned About your survivability as pve dps you can just use blur since it would be moved to the shadow skill line thus giving you the resistances and the aoe Damage reduction.
If you are concerned About the dps nerfs, then I dont know what to tell you except that stamblade has been on top of dps for so Long nerfs shouldve happened earlier already. Incap is an incredibly overloaded ultimate and loosing that 20% increase on dots will reduce your dps but again how Long have you been on top?
Inb4 "dont nerf stamblade bring other classes up to their Level" lets be real: do you ever see this Happening except to push Sales for a new class? I sure dont.
Only Thing that was brought up which would be problematic in PvE is the resistance Duration for tanks, while there is Always the Option to use balance from mages Guild there should be something in the nb class tree to help maintain a good uptime on Major resistance buffs for tanks.

Pvp wise you will know why some Change is necessary if you ever ran into a decent heavy bleedblade in a 1v1.

Maverick_Brian · April 2019

Ignoring the nobodies that are wannabe trolls... It's about damn time some good suggestions were posted, glad it was you that opened up the subject with some really interesting proposals, fam.

I agree with just about every change suggested except the necessity of the Shadowy Disguise change. Based on what you've suggested, the duration of the invisibility from that skill would be the same only if you wear light and medium. I don't really think any good heavyblade would run that instead of Dark Cloak and it doesn't have that much strength on a heavyblade. It's quite easy in open world to decloak a build that doesn't have the mobility a medium spec would. So I feel like a change could be implemented for this, but I don't see it as a must have. I think in that way, it can be fine the way it is right now, although I am aware of the potential it can have on a rally.

usmcjdking · April 2019

This is a bit hard to read due to format, and some of the changes are probably way too aggressively aimed at nerfing HA directly - but the sentiment and the idea is generally very good.

Thanks for the post.

lassitershawn · April 2019

TheRealSniker wrote: »

lassitershawn wrote: »

If S/B is an issue in PvP and not being nerfed because of "PvE tanks," I can say that pretty much all we need is the side effects of the skills, not the damage. The damage could be completely removed on ransack/pierce armor for example and it wouldn't matter a lick for PvE tanks. Same goes for heroic slash, it is just used for the maim and ultigen.

Thing is Specs like Stamsorc, StamDK and Stamdens heavily rely on a spammable from the S&B tree, Ransack or Low Slash are both widely used abilities.

Ok I was confused by your statement that something can't be nerfed for PvE tanks. I now assume you just meant the fracture can't be removed or something? In any event if its for PvP balance I don't mind losing anything from S/B as a tank except major debuffs on pierce and minor heroism/maim on heroic cause that's pretty much all that matters

TequilaFire · April 2019

templesus wrote: »

Agree completely, everyone knows Stamblade nerf is incoming, why would people knowingly endorse ZOS projected changes over these? Sniker, as someone who 1vXes (the endgame of PvP) and PvEs at the endgame level, knows what he’s talking about when he’s proposing changes for the class.

1vX is not even a planned part of this game and should have no bearing on overall game balance.
Such arrogance.

brandonv516 · April 2019

I don't play Stamblade but i will comment on some of the general NB ideas:

-Move Surprise Attack/Concealed Weapon to Assassination tree
Don't really have a problem with this. Doesn't hurt Magblade as we are using other Shadow skills to benefit from the passives.

-Lower Major Defile on Incap from 6 seconds to 4 seconds/20% damage buff only applies to direct damage
All sources I'm seeing say that Reverb Bash gets 10 seconds of Major Defile. If this is accurate/updated, it's ridiculous to make a suggestion for Incap to receive a nerf in this department.

I'm okay with the 20% damage buff only applying to direct damage. It should not apply to bleeds for sure.

-Removal/change of Shadow Barrier passive
Completely unnecessary if Surprise Attack/Concealed Weapon is moved to the Assassination tree.

-Dark Cloak being capped
It's only slightly beneficial starting at 25k health and you want it capped at 25k health? I don't know - seems like it would be useless at that point.

Shadowy Disguise duration nerf
So 1.5 seconds of invisibility for Heavy Armor users and 3 seconds for Light/Medium armor users? I'm on the edge with this one, leaning more towards it being a good suggestion. However, if there are any Heavy Armor Magblades left, this might be the end of them using Cloak.

TheRealSniker · April 2019

brandonv516 wrote: »

I don't play Stamblade but i will comment on some of the general NB ideas:

-Move Surprise Attack/Concealed Weapon to Assassination tree
Don't really have a problem with this. Doesn't hurt Magblade as we are using other Shadow skills to benefit from the passives.

-Lower Major Defile on Incap from 6 seconds to 4 seconds/20% damage buff only applies to direct damage
All sources I'm seeing say that Reverb Bash gets 10 seconds of Major Defile. If this is accurate/updated, it's ridiculous to make a suggestion for Incap to receive a nerf in this department.

I'm okay with the 20% damage buff only applying to direct damage. It should not apply to bleeds for sure.

-Removal/change of Shadow Barrier passive
Completely unnecessary if Surprise Attack/Concealed Weapon is moved to the Assassination tree.

-Dark Cloak being capped
It's only slightly beneficial starting at 25k health and you want it capped at 25k health? I don't know - seems like it would be useless at that point.

Shadowy Disguise duration nerf
So 1.5 seconds of invisibility for Heavy Armor users and 3 seconds for Light/Medium armor users? I'm on the edge with this one, leaning more towards it being a good suggestion. However, if there are any Heavy Armor Magblades left, this might be the end of them using Cloak.

Reverb has a Major Defile duration of 4 seconds

templesus · April 2019

TequilaFire wrote: »

templesus wrote: »

Agree completely, everyone knows Stamblade nerf is incoming, why would people knowingly endorse ZOS projected changes over these? Sniker, as someone who 1vXes (the endgame of PvP) and PvEs at the endgame level, knows what he’s talking about when he’s proposing changes for the class.

1vX is not even a planned part of this game and should have no bearing on overall game balance.
Such arrogance.

Imagine insinuating someone else is arrogant, after you assumed to know how the game was designed and what the Devs intended it for as if they ever explicitly stated it.
Such irony.

frostz417 · April 2019

Night blades are now going to endure the pain every other class has been enduring the last 5 years. Enjoy your nerf 😂😂

ccmedaddy · April 2019

brandonv516 wrote: »

All sources I'm seeing say that Reverb Bash gets 10 seconds of Major Defile.

o.O

Ragnaroek93 · April 2019

Pretty much agree on everything in the post but want to add that this goes far beyond stamblades. They're basically the only spec which is competitive with medium armor and hit and run builds. Trashing stamblade now means removing the hit and run playstyle altogether. Let's be realistic, medium armor (especially with a bow) just sucks on all other classes and this issue is getting ignored since years (same as other builds like magblade in PvP right now lol) by the developers, overnerfing rollerblade will solve exactly nothing. It's not hard to realise that stamnb is so popular for stamina builds because it's the only class which can be competitive without being a sword and board tank.

After all I don't have much hope for this game. Looks like the playstyle I love to play (hit and run builds) will be removed more or less and changing to another class won't help either because this freaking playstyle isn't viable on anything else. The combat team in ESO has the talent to turn every hype into sh*t with their stupid nerf madness (we're gonna fight dragons after we paid them for overnerfing our classes and builds which we're playing since years *HYYYYYYPE*), the things they come up with are just awful most of the time and often just insult the players who put effort into the game and supporting it since years. Just imagine how the game will look like in a year when every class lost their class identiy, feels the same and when build diversity is non existant.

TheGreatBlackBear · April 2019

Nightblades as a class have been getting weaker with every patch. It's only stupidly overpowered sets and more recently the broken orc and dark elf passive that inflates dps numbers. Nerf the toolkit all you want. Nothing changes.

brandonv516 · April 2019

TheRealSniker wrote: »

brandonv516 wrote: »

I don't play Stamblade but i will comment on some of the general NB ideas:

-Move Surprise Attack/Concealed Weapon to Assassination tree
Don't really have a problem with this. Doesn't hurt Magblade as we are using other Shadow skills to benefit from the passives.

-Lower Major Defile on Incap from 6 seconds to 4 seconds/20% damage buff only applies to direct damage
All sources I'm seeing say that Reverb Bash gets 10 seconds of Major Defile. If this is accurate/updated, it's ridiculous to make a suggestion for Incap to receive a nerf in this department.

I'm okay with the 20% damage buff only applying to direct damage. It should not apply to bleeds for sure.

-Removal/change of Shadow Barrier passive
Completely unnecessary if Surprise Attack/Concealed Weapon is moved to the Assassination tree.

-Dark Cloak being capped
It's only slightly beneficial starting at 25k health and you want it capped at 25k health? I don't know - seems like it would be useless at that point.

Shadowy Disguise duration nerf
So 1.5 seconds of invisibility for Heavy Armor users and 3 seconds for Light/Medium armor users? I'm on the edge with this one, leaning more towards it being a good suggestion. However, if there are any Heavy Armor Magblades left, this might be the end of them using Cloak.

Reverb has a Major Defile duration of 4 seconds

Okay thanks for clarifying. Some of those sites need updates.

I still feel I need to stand by 6 seconds as it is an ultimate.

ccmedaddy wrote: »

brandonv516 wrote: »

All sources I'm seeing say that Reverb Bash gets 10 seconds of Major Defile.

o.O

I don't use the skill so I was basing it on clearly outdated information by a simple 'eso reverberating bash' search through Google.

Girl_Number8 · April 2019

TequilaFire wrote: »

Why the hell can't we just play this game and leave it the hell alone.
OK so we nerf the most popular class, well there goes more population down the tubes.
I don't care who you are, it is all about playability not just elite top end scores and numbers.
A class should be fluid and fun to play which NB fills the bill.
Improve the other classes and there won't be so much lop sided class distribution.
I run Templar and Stamden mains but occasionally play Stamblade just because I come from an Assassin's Creed
Brotherhood Multiplayer background which I played to death.

They also need to fix this games performance before doing class balance, right now performance is so bad you can't
tell what the hell is going on with skills.

This^

Girl_Number8 · April 2019

templesus wrote: »

Agree completely, everyone knows Stamblade nerf is incoming, why would people knowingly endorse ZOS projected changes over these? Sniker, as someone who 1vXes (the endgame of PvP) and PvEs at the endgame level, knows what he’s talking about when he’s proposing changes for the class.

Not really. One persons opinion does not speak for the majority of the player base. Zos really needs to look at things another away. Fanboiis smh.

There are a lot of great 1 v X players far better that don't even bother with YouTube and some do. Their opinions come from a personal lopsided view point. There needs to be balancing with in Zos not fanboiis and ego driven look at me players.

That edit their videos to look so bright and shiny

Buffs in other classes are sorely needed to keep the game fun and fast paced. Zos needs to communicate with their larger player base and hire more employees that are looking at the long term life of the game in all areas not one.

templesus · April 2019

Girl_Number8 wrote: »

templesus wrote: »

Agree completely, everyone knows Stamblade nerf is incoming, why would people knowingly endorse ZOS projected changes over these? Sniker, as someone who 1vXes (the endgame of PvP) and PvEs at the endgame level, knows what he’s talking about when he’s proposing changes for the class.

Not really. One persons opinion does not speak for the majority of the player base. Zos really needs to look at things another away. Fanboiis smh.

There are a lot of great 1 v X players far better that don't even bother with YouTube and some do. Their opinions come from a personal lopsided view point. There needs to be balancing with in Zos not fanboiis and ego driven look at me players.

That edit their videos to look so bright and shiny

Of course it doesn’t speak for the majority of the playerbase...I’m assuming you know this all too well, but the majority of the player base quest, do normal dungeons, roleplay, and zerg. However these players should have much less say on class balance then players at the endgame level.

Just because a change makes it harder for you to Zerg doesn’t make it a bad change. You’ll be able to Xv1 players just fine as long as you’re allowed to be in your 24 man groups.

Girl_Number8 · April 2019

templesus wrote: »

Girl_Number8 wrote: »

templesus wrote: »

Agree completely, everyone knows Stamblade nerf is incoming, why would people knowingly endorse ZOS projected changes over these? Sniker, as someone who 1vXes (the endgame of PvP) and PvEs at the endgame level, knows what he’s talking about when he’s proposing changes for the class.

Not really. One persons opinion does not speak for the majority of the player base. Zos really needs to look at things another away. Fanboiis smh.

There are a lot of great 1 v X players far better that don't even bother with YouTube and some do. Their opinions come from a personal lopsided view point. There needs to be balancing with in Zos not fanboiis and ego driven look at me players.

That edit their videos to look so bright and shiny

Of course it doesn’t speak for the majority of the playerbase...I’m assuming you know this all too well, but the majority of the player base quest, do normal dungeons, roleplay, and zerg. However these players should have much less say on class balance then players at the endgame level.

Just because a change makes it harder for you to Zerg doesn’t make it a bad change. You’ll be able to Xv1 players just fine as long as you’re allowed to be in your 24 man groups.

I don't Zerg silly. I solo doing 1 v X or 2 v X. I play on every platform and I do not think that one persons view point is healthy for the entire game. Stamblades are easy but I would rather see positive threads then one persons view point and his fanboii cronies.

Me, I am not a fangirl. I love the game and actually want to see it grow. Which is what Zos is doing by many of the changes but the classes still need some buffs to have a better game play and bring things up to par equally rather then focus on a couple of classes.

Sorry you're fanboii, hopefully you will grow out of that.

templesus · April 2019

Girl_Number8 wrote: »

templesus wrote: »

Girl_Number8 wrote: »

templesus wrote: »

Agree completely, everyone knows Stamblade nerf is incoming, why would people knowingly endorse ZOS projected changes over these? Sniker, as someone who 1vXes (the endgame of PvP) and PvEs at the endgame level, knows what he’s talking about when he’s proposing changes for the class.

Not really. One persons opinion does not speak for the majority of the player base. Zos really needs to look at things another away. Fanboiis smh.

There are a lot of great 1 v X players far better that don't even bother with YouTube and some do. Their opinions come from a personal lopsided view point. There needs to be balancing with in Zos not fanboiis and ego driven look at me players.

That edit their videos to look so bright and shiny

Of course it doesn’t speak for the majority of the playerbase...I’m assuming you know this all too well, but the majority of the player base quest, do normal dungeons, roleplay, and zerg. However these players should have much less say on class balance then players at the endgame level.

Just because a change makes it harder for you to Zerg doesn’t make it a bad change. You’ll be able to Xv1 players just fine as long as you’re allowed to be in your 24 man groups.

I don't Zerg silly. I solo doing 1 v X or 2 v X. I play on every platform and I do not think that one persons view point is healthy for the entire game. Stamblades are easy but I would rather see positive threads then one persons view point and his fanboii cronies.

Me, I am not a fangirl. I love the game and actually want to see it grow. Which is what Zos is doing by many of the changes but the classes still need some buffs to have a better game play and bring things up to par equally rather then focus on a couple of classes.

Sorry you're fanboii, hopefully you will grow out of that.

Imagine telling someone to grow up but you use words like fanboy and fangirl. FYI I don’t even follow Sniker on YT, I’ve just spoke to him on the class discords 😂

You actually haven’t posted anything so far that refutes or attributes anything from the post, you’ve just posted nonsense so far, yet you want the game to grow. Interesting

Ratzkifal · April 2019

Sounds very good so far. I'm a little worried about Nightblade PvE tanks, since those resistances from the passive are much needed and 3 seconds are not a lot.

ccmedaddy · April 2019

brandonv516 wrote: »

ccmedaddy wrote: »

brandonv516 wrote: »

All sources I'm seeing say that Reverb Bash gets 10 seconds of Major Defile.

o.O

I don't use the skill so I was basing it on clearly outdated information by a simple 'eso reverberating bash' search through Google.

Ah ok I thought you were saying reverb is getting buffed next patch, which would've been an interesting course of action by ZOS considering all the 'nerf SnB' threads that have popped up lately.

Iki · April 2019

Good job with opening post, lots of insightful points there. Only thing I disagree with is how you would change incapa.
That 20% bonus damage should be completely removed, not just changed to affect direct damage only.

If changed it your way, it sure would be hefty nerf to bleedblades, but burstblades would continue to get too much free dps from too cheap ultimate.
Or replace that 20% bonus-dmg with minor fracture, that would also increase damage-output but for more reasonable amount and would not affect bleeds.

TheRealSniker · April 2019

Iki wrote: »

Good job with opening post, lots of insightful points there. Only thing I disagree with is how you would change incapa.
That 20% bonus damage should be completely removed, not just changed to affect direct damage only.

If changed it your way, it sure would be hefty nerf to bleedblades, but burstblades would continue to get too much free dps from too cheap ultimate.
Or replace that 20% bonus-dmg with minor fracture, that would also increase damage-output but for more reasonable amount and would not affect bleeds.

Nightblades are supposed to be the Burstblades though, thats their identity and a big amount of pressure of a magblade and medblade comes from that 20%

Much of the burst nowadays gets sponged through anyway because tankiness is so high.

Vapirko · April 2019

TheGreatBlackBear wrote: »

I could flip that and say that PvP is no reason to strip functionality from Incap in PVE. Having surprise attack proc the major resistances is crucial for stamblade survival in PVE. Dark cloak is an excellent tool for Nightblade tanks (yes they exist). Instead of nerfing or removing functionality from a class because it's overtuned in PVP we should look into changing how the moves and passives behave when fighting players as opposed to monsters.

Stamblades are overtuned in PvE as well from what I understand, parsing pretty far ahead of other classes.