If crates were banned.

Alucardo · April 2019

rope_bunny wrote: »

Crown Crates aren't really gambling. If you don't get what you want, usually you can just extract the items you don't want in exchange for gems and get what you want that way with the exception of Radiant Apex Mounts.

Tell that to the netherlands and belgium. Obviously more countries want to jump on board too - it's just a matter of time.

AlienSlof · April 2019

If crates were banned.

I would CHEER!

Just put stuff in the shop for direct purchase and leave it there for a good long while. People will buy what they want and ZOS would still make money. Just stop with the predatory boxes already!

Genomic · April 2019

AlienSlof wrote: »

If crates were banned.

I would CHEER!

Just put stuff in the shop for direct purchase and leave it there for a good long while. People will buy what they want and ZOS would still make money. Just stop with the predatory boxes already!

Exactly. I don't know why so many people seem to not understand this. ZOS can easily sell the items directly in the Crown store. The ONLY reason they are not is because it deceptively manipulates people into habitually spending more money. The psychological techniques and effects have been very well documented, hijacking the brain's dopamine reward system. It's unabashed, ugly greed on ZOS's part to introduce them.

Turelus · April 2019

rope_bunny wrote: »

Crown Crates aren't really gambling. If you don't get what you want, usually you can just extract the items you don't want in exchange for gems and get what you want that way with the exception of Radiant Apex Mounts.

They're not gambling as covered by law, but they are exactly the same methods used in some gabling. It's essentially gambling that doesn't have to be regulated because you're buying a product, not trying to get more money back.

The only way to obtain gems is to buy crates, and that's a pretty bad rate.
Radiant Apex Mounts can't be purchased for gems, thus you have to keep playing to win.
You can't choose to turn everything into gems, only consumables or duplicates.
There are now gem exclusive items which require you to constantly buy crates to get the currency needed to buy the items.

It's predatory and insulting business model used to extract as much money from the customer as possible.

If you want information on drop rates you can check: https://www.crowncrates.com
Also consider signing up to Faunter's Patreon to support the great work they do giving players the data ZOS won't on crates.

Narvuntien · April 2019

It's gambling in everything but the actual money all the psychological tricks used in gambling machines are being used for crates. I don't like them.

I am lukewarm on the selling of cosmetics in the game especially for those prices but... the good news as far as that goes is at least you can get some sweet ones from actually playing the game like the trials skins and the motif system. So it's nowhere near as abusive as some other games. So over all I am okay with the selling of cool looking mounts and costumes.

Look this game needs money to run I get that, I am perfectly willing to shell out that $30 a year for the expansion actually (although I know ESO+ members were annoyed about that) because its new and good content. I am willing to allow ESO+ members to have advantages like the craft bag and double bank space.

Bobby_V_Rockit · April 2019

Its keeps them employed. I’m happy

Alucardo · April 2019

Bobby_V_Rockit wrote: »

Its keeps them employed. I’m happy

They were employed long before crates existed.

Bobby_V_Rockit · April 2019

Alucardo wrote: »

Bobby_V_Rockit wrote: »

Its keeps them employed. I’m happy

They were employed long before crates existed.

They gotta make money to stay employed

Alucardo · April 2019

Bobby_V_Rockit wrote: »

Alucardo wrote: »

Bobby_V_Rockit wrote: »

Its keeps them employed. I’m happy

They were employed long before crates existed.

They gotta make money to stay employed

Subscriptions, chapters, DLCs, initial game fee, and all of the other crown store purchases?

AlienSlof · April 2019

They could do that without predatory crates. All they need to do is LISTEN to what we want, then put those items in the shop: hair styles, clothes, interesting pets, mounts, services.

All can be lucrative without a single gamble crate in sight.

AbysmalGhul · April 2019

I usually don't purchase them and I could care less either way. For arguments sake, (for my world police people) if the crates did go and they placed all of the items in the crown store, would it be less predatory for the company to milk every red cent out of the impulsive who would probably end up buying everything up in the crown store?

Moonsorrow · April 2019

Crates are gambling yeah. But never had an issue with that personally.

Liking more to buy things directly, even with marginally higher price than what it would cost if rng luck from a box type of situation with same item.

ZOS does well to use both options on making money, as long as crates stay legal they should sell them. Free choice on people if buy or not. I like how capitalism works.

I know i said some months ago that the person who is responsible on monetization/crown store is tired since they could make so much more money, even without pay2win stuff added to (and never do that, even if it can be tempting, it kills games surprisingly fast).. and Event Tickets happened now, with the festivals rewards planned so that those who "want it all"/collectors WILL end up buying Tickets for sure. Nice move. Will get ZOS some nice cashflow thats for sure.

And so it is good for the game and for us. People not need all the things one can get with tickets, so those who pay for the things they want directly like Indrik, style pages, pets.. that can also get without real money. It is a nice way of making money, better than crates actually for the player, they get what they want with 100%.

Things like selling Event Tickets is the future when/if crates go away someday. With Event Tickets you can combine own effort ingame and if short of time, then buy the rest. More satisfying feeling for the buyer too, than getting worthless consumables from a mangy khajiit who keeps lying that you have a lucky aura.

Tyralbin · April 2019

I did not intend to cause arguments but was just thinking outside the box in ways they could use the current crown crates.

Oh and in the UK crown crates are seen as gambling but they haven't been covered by the gaming act yet and the UK may still not go the way of Belgium. They are under review but it may take ages for it to be sorted for obvious reasons.

Jayman1000 · April 2019

redspecter23 wrote: »

RNG has never been overly popular as a reward method.

On the surface it may not seem popular... but in terms of players actually USING these rng lottery gambling systems, then it is very much popular. ZOS and other video game companies indulging themselves in gambling practices know full well how popular RNG loot crates really are.

Moonsorrow · April 2019

Tyralbin wrote: »

I did not intend to cause arguments but was just thinking outside the box in ways they could use the current crown crates.

Oh and in the UK crown crates are seen as gambling but they haven't been covered by the gaming act yet and the UK may still not go the way of Belgium. They are under review but it may take ages for it to be sorted for obvious reasons.

Oh, forgot to say that i actually agree with you.

They should add some to ESO+ for sure, good timing if they want to get the price of ESO+ up a couple of euro/dollars, adding some crates in to the deal then would be nice.

People liked their "free crates" when did get those earlier when others did get free eso+, i think people would like some crates attached to eso+

and as a gold sink in the game, would get some extra gold away. I can imagine a khajiit casino type of place at some city.

todokete · April 2019

Please ban the crates. They're a very shady business model

ChuckyPayne · April 2019

... then they figure out new ways to replace the loss.

I don't like corwn crates I don't like item malls (doesn't matters cosmetics/convenience/p2w) but I bought already stuffs from store or creates for gold (from others via gifting). There's the little evil inside, to be ESO+ get crowns u can buy, etc etc.

If there would be a button to erase all item malls from every games I would press as fast as I can.

Item malls are the lazy 0 hour content development, the new the shiny way to earn tons of money with minimal efforts. We pay much more if we want (or if we forced). If It wouldn't exist, then we would get contents bigger and more often. That would be the nice world like at the late 1990s, early 2000s.

barney2525 · April 2019

I'm still confused by the guy who is fine with crates but doesn't open them.

I don't get it.

Assuming the crates referred to are the free ones we have gotten as login gifts from time to time, why wouldn't you open them?

JinMori · April 2019

Kiralyn2000 wrote: »

Canned_Apples wrote: »

No, they are 100% Gambling. 100%.

Dungeon runs are also gambling - you spend your time ("time is money, friend") to open the loot box hit the end boss and hope that the loot you want pops out.

...but yeah, they'd just switch to putting the stuff in the crown store straight. Probably have a few less variants (like not every type of mount in fire/ice/dead/scales/rainbows/etc)

No, that is not the definition of gambling, just because there is an rng chance doesn't mean it's gambling, gambling specifically required the use of real money to be considered that, or the possibility of losing money to something directly.

JinMori · April 2019

The problem with crates and in game microtransaction is that they can earn money from them rather than making a good game, which is why some pointed out that crates make devs lazy, and if you buy them, know that you are directly compromising the game.

Also, these people that talk about "you don;t know how development of a game works", well do YOU? I think *** not.

As a matter of fact there have been reports that directly stated the low sales will not compromise the overall earnings of the company, how come that companies could make more than enough money even before microtransactions? and now they are somehow required? They are not, they are just an extra, a trap for people to fall in.

Aznarb · April 2019

Remove crate and put item from them in CS like any other item instead of locking them behind RNG and huge paywall.
I bet they'll earn more money this way cuz many of us don't want to put a single penny in RNG box.

Edit : at least their is nothing p2w in this game and it's a good thing.

Nemesis7884 · April 2019

I think purely cosmetic items and crates are the least intrusive way to generate revenues, fund new content and secure this games future and a much better option than possible alternatives such as time/grind related paywalls (why i am concerned about the move with regatds to skyshards)

Jayman1000 · April 2019

Kiralyn2000 wrote: »

Canned_Apples wrote: »

No, they are 100% Gambling. 100%.

Dungeon runs are also gambling - you spend your time ("time is money, friend") to open the loot box hit the end boss and hope that the loot you want pops out.

If there is skill involved before getting the loot, then it is not gambling. Hence, dungeons are not gambling. Although in the case of some normal dungeons they can be so extremely easy that one might perhaps still argue to some extent that the loot in the end is gambling because it almost require no skills...

Mathius_Mordred · April 2019

What is the issue with the gambling crates, everyone has to be over 18 to play don't they? Is it that they don't explicitly specify that it's gambling? because everyone knows that it is anyway. I don't have an issue with gambling in games as long as they are not targeted towards minors, which would be unethical and possibly illegal in some countries. At the end of the day, we are all adults, we make a choice on how we spend our disposable income and we don't need a nanny state to save us from our own impulsive desires thank you very much.

Jayman1000 · April 2019

Mathius_Mordred wrote: »

What is the issue with the gambling crates, everyone has to be over 18 to play don't they? Is it that they don't explicitly specify that it's gambling? because everyone knows that it is anyway. I don't have an issue with gambling in games as long as they are not targeted towards minors, which would be unethical and possibly illegal in some countries. At the end of the day, we are all adults, we make a choice on how we spend our disposable income and we don't need a nanny state to save us from our own impulsive desires thank you very much.

Because if you are doing gambling then you need to adhere to gambling laws. But by using loopholes in the law zos and other videogame companies using gambling practices, can avoid following gambling laws because they can claim that it is "technically not gambling", even though for all intent and purposes this is gambling.

InvictusApollo · April 2019

Crates are gambling. THey use the same psychological effects as casinos. They should be banned. Instead we shouold be able to buy exactly what we want for a set amount of money. If I want to buy a certain mount I should be able to buy it instead of buy lottery tickets that give me a chance to get it.

Mathius_Mordred · April 2019

Jayman1000 wrote: »

Mathius_Mordred wrote: »

What is the issue with the gambling crates, everyone has to be over 18 to play don't they? Is it that they don't explicitly specify that it's gambling? because everyone knows that it is anyway. I don't have an issue with gambling in games as long as they are not targeted towards minors, which would be unethical and possibly illegal in some countries. At the end of the day, we are all adults, we make a choice on how we spend our disposable income and we don't need a nanny state to save us from our own impulsive desires thank you very much.

Because if you are doing gambling then you need to adhere to gambling laws. But by using loopholes in the law zos and other videogame companies using gambling practices, can avoid following gambling laws because they can claim that it is "technically not gambling", even though for all intent and purposes this is gambling.

Then isn't it the politicians' role to adjust those laws to include this new type of gambling? And until they do so ZoS and others are not actually breaking any laws? What, if any, current gambling laws are they breaking? I'm no expert in this area but from my cursory glance at the topic, they don't seem to be breaking any because there is no real-world financial payout or material prizes from the chance boxes. Until the laws are changed then these forms of gambling will continue.

You could also say that playing a trial for a chance to win something you want is also gambling, in this case you are paying with your time, and time=money, for a random chance, and yet because no real-world money is involved nobody says anything.

As long as this game remains targeted at adults, ie over 18, then I have no issue with it, if under 18s are playing, and I know they are, then it is for their parents to ensure they are not spending their money on gambling, as I do with my children.

IIISYNIII · April 2019

Tyralbin · April 2019

Mathius_Mordred wrote: »

Jayman1000 wrote: »

Mathius_Mordred wrote: »

What is the issue with the gambling crates, everyone has to be over 18 to play don't they? Is it that they don't explicitly specify that it's gambling? because everyone knows that it is anyway. I don't have an issue with gambling in games as long as they are not targeted towards minors, which would be unethical and possibly illegal in some countries. At the end of the day, we are all adults, we make a choice on how we spend our disposable income and we don't need a nanny state to save us from our own impulsive desires thank you very much.

Because if you are doing gambling then you need to adhere to gambling laws. But by using loopholes in the law zos and other videogame companies using gambling practices, can avoid following gambling laws because they can claim that it is "technically not gambling", even though for all intent and purposes this is gambling.

Then isn't it the politicians' role to adjust those laws to include this new type of gambling? And until they do so ZoS and others are not actually breaking any laws? What, if any, current gambling laws are they breaking? I'm no expert in this area but from my cursory glance at the topic, they don't seem to be breaking any because there is no real-world financial payout or material prizes from the chance boxes. Until the laws are changed then these forms of gambling will continue.

You could also say that playing a trial for a chance to win something you want is also gambling, in this case you are paying with your time, and time=money, for a random chance, and yet because no real-world money is involved nobody says anything.

As long as this game remains targeted at adults, ie over 18, then I have no issue with it, if under 18s are playing, and I know they are, then it is for their parents to ensure they are not spending their money on gambling, as I do with my children.

Only in Belgium are they breaking a specific law against crown crates at the moment.

There are specific laws in the UK that could probably be used against gambling in this form in games but it would be a long and costly battle.

A law exists which states anything over a certain stake can be classed as gambling and the cost of a crown crate well exceeds that. The issue is that the internet itself is not covered by the law in certain cases and these laws only exist to companies that are registered in the UK.

Only Casinos, Bingo and lotto so far is covered online in the UK afaik.

I do have knowledge in this area I was in the Gaming Industry in the UK for 25 years.

NoTimeToWait · April 2019

If crates were banned, Pacrooti would be one sad cat