profundidob16_ESO wrote: »

Agenericname wrote: »

Aside from all of the obvious bad, there's also the additional challenge of making this work. The RDF is already broken, adding yet another mechanism would likely just end up with any one in queue being blown up and teleported out regardless of their DPS, and then brought right back, blown up again, repeat as many times as we got a "someone declined queue" during the Undaunted Event.

Yes, I would agree here. The practical implementation of what I proposed would most likely end up being something like:

You get teleported into open space and keep falling forever, unable to do anything except launch a support ticket ! =P

Or it could be similar to CoH2 and instead of falling you get feared out the area, through the wall of course, and just keep running unable to break the fear or do anything other than open a support ticket.

Secret World actually did something (sort of) like this.

They had a boss each player *had* to defeat - solo - in order to be able to ENTER into any end-game (vet type) dungeons.

You had to pick a roll - and the fight was setup to test tanking, dps, or healing - depending on which role you picked. Once cleared you were able to enter "vet" dungeons.

You only had to defeat it once though - because TSW never had a auto-group maker so there was never any locks on what roll you could pick in a dungeon. Once defeated - you could tank/heal/dps regardless of what roll you were in when you defeated the boss. (I believe, its been a number of years so I could be wrong...)

Not exactly the same - but a similar idea.

Didn't really effect whether people played crappy in the dungeon - but it did set up at least some small "marker" players had to hit in their chosen roll before they could enter into end game dungeons.

Because normally no -bad dps in a hard boss fight is usually more about knowing the fight, then gear, and lastly whether you're really hitting the buttons fast enough/right order.

But I see no reason vet dungeon finder couldn't at least use some type of minimum gear requirement - to at least show someone has the gear to produce the dps in the first place(?). But tons of players in the right gear can hit a training dummy and get the high numbers - but can't do it live.

I don't play vet dungeon games in TESO so I have no clue - but if its really that big of a problem in the que - a gear score would be a "simpler" (and more realistic request perhaps) solution.

mystkldrgnb14_ESO wrote: »

Secret World actually did something (sort of) like this.

They had a boss each player *had* to defeat - solo - in order to be able to ENTER into any end-game (vet type) dungeons.

You had to pick a roll - and the fight was setup to test tanking, dps, or healing - depending on which role you picked. Once cleared you were able to enter "vet" dungeons.

You only had to defeat it once though - because TSW never had a auto-group maker so there was never any locks on what roll you could pick in a dungeon. Once defeated - you could tank/heal/dps regardless of what roll you were in when you defeated the boss. (I believe, its been a number of years so I could be wrong...)

Not exactly the same - but a similar idea.

Didn't really effect whether people played crappy in the dungeon - but it did set up at least some small "marker" players had to hit in their chosen roll before they could enter into end game dungeons.

Because normally no -bad dps in a hard boss fight is usually more about knowing the fight, then gear, and lastly whether you're really hitting the buttons fast enough/right order.

But I see no reason vet dungeon finder couldn't at least use some type of minimum gear requirement - to at least show someone has the gear to produce the dps in the first place(?). But tons of players in the right gear can hit a training dummy and get the high numbers - but can't do it live.

I don't play vet dungeon games in TESO so I have no clue - but if its really that big of a problem in the que - a gear score would be a "simpler" (and more realistic request perhaps) solution.

Actually now that you mention it, another new mmorpg that had just left beta last year had a hard gear check as well. In order to reach the minimum total combined gearscore required to be able to queue for the game's first dungeon you basically had no other option than to to collect enough green gear (for almost all slots) from quest rewards at the right level. Each next dungeon then also had a new total combined gearscore requirement etc...

No, I like the challenge of dungeon finder exactly because those are not organized groups, it's a mess and things get crazy more than often, even quite difficult at times with a strong need to adapt on the fly and that's all the fun.

Those who are so bothered to find low dps can work to get decent themselves and carry a bit instead to expect so much from others, then you can enjoy all the marvelous surprises of dungeon finder. Otherwise just join your guilds mates or people you do know they are good and experienced players and have it the easy way.

Or how about they just implement a proper report system, where you can distinguish between:

- toxic behavior (with chat examples)
- misleading other players by picking a non fitting role
- cheating (that's a more difficult topic)
- etc.

Depending on the frequency of your sent reports of the same category they will lose value, so you can't abuse the system to spread your own toxicity towards players you simply don't like.

If a player got reported often enough, a supporter will look into the case and decide if the player needs to be punished. A penalty could be: additional queuing time for the specific character's role he got reported for. 5 mins - 10 mins- 20 mins - banned from groupfinder for 1 day - etc.

Of course this needs to be worked out as it is just an idea.

Imo this is more dynamic than a test that every player has to overcome for any dungeon.

richo262 wrote: »

Much easier ways of doing this.

1) Lock Vet behind CP160 or even CP200. There is no benefit to anybody to have an under CP160 in the vet group. The team suffers from it, and the under CP160 player only benefits from purple rings / amulets that are sub cp160 (worthless) or a monster helm that is also sub CP160 that will be out levelled by the time they find the shoulders to match. Undaunted keys also should be locked from use until CP160, or drop only CP160 items. Sub CP160 players get the same XP from running random normal, it is quicker, and they'll get a smaller repair bill at the end, they should be encouraged into normal for their own sake.

2) If you are going to have a certification process, have it done, once per character. Not once per que. IE, Stam DPS is tested at the fighters guild, Mag DPS is tested at the mages guild, Tanks are tested by the undaunted and healers are tested also at the mages guild.

2a) You could it block the tank selection unless they are wearing 5 pieces of heavy or a Frost staff. DPS is blocked unless they are wearing Light/Medium. Healer is blocked unless they are holding a Resto staff.


DPS already have to wait 20 - 30 minutes for a dungeon, having them smack a dummy around just to sit in a que is even more tedium.

1. I've carried groups through vet dlc where the cp810 was simply dead weight and constantly being saved by the cp 120 healer over and over...so no. I'm sorry but you're wrong on this regard.

2. Agreed, having to do it only once seems a bit easier but then you get the typical abuse: "hey my friend, can you log on to my account just once and do good dps for me on the dummy so I can queue forever as dead weight ?..."

2a. The best tanks in the game actually run a lightning staff on the back and can wear double medium armor sets. Your proposal would block them out completely. In addition they would simply equip something to queue and then switch set the second they get inside...

3. If proper checks are in place you'll have to wait only 15min instead of 30min, so that 1 minute of qualifying for dps will save you up to 14minutes because the people that are only capable of normal dungeons are filtered out of the queue.

DenMoria wrote: »

What's the issue with the DPS?

What DPS is expected (although I would assume it must be high given that it's veterans).

All I know is that, although I'm still relatively low level, I'm easily hitting 3-4K at level 12 or 13 already and can only assume that it will continue to grow.

Just wondering so that I can set my sights on the necessities for later activitiies.

Thank you

I get worthless dps players way too often. I don't know what is the expected, and i don't use addon to check other's dps, but there is a monumental difference in speed.

Now i play as tank, and the best i can do is ~8k. using the tank gear, and dps skills+weapon. If you can't do this much, then "git gud".

But i like the idea, and should be expanded to tank/healer too. I remember a "healer" with no healing skills. We got lucky, that i can heal, and tank at the same time in the easier vet. dungeons.

Tank would be surviving damage for one minute. Your enemy would have infinite health, but not invulnerable so you can use skills/heavy attacks on it. Also there would be a small health training dummy, that generates infinite aggro, and you must keep the enemy taunted.

Healer would have similar trial. An npc keeps attacking a dummy. The npc cannot be taunted, and you must keep the dummy alive.

For making the stuff less frustrating you would only need to take the trial once, and you can re-take later to get a better rating for the DPS. Healer, and tanks don't need rating, because they get invited soon enough.

profundidob16_ESO wrote: »

ok this will for sure set some fire but here goes a crazy idea for a possible future patch note:


-queuing as dps for any VETERAN dungeon no longer queues you straight away but instead now teleports you to a small room with only a test dummy and a start button. After pressing the button a 3 sec countdown timer starts after which you have to unleash your maximum dmge on the test dummy during 1 minute and kill it before those 60 seconds expire . The higher your dps the higher you end up on the queuing priority list and if you fail to meet the minimum dps check threshold by not being able to kill the dummy in that 1 minute timeframe it explodes, killing you in the process as well as teleporting you back outside. =P

that should solve all the issues with low dps in vet dungeons

@ZOS_GinaBruno

Yeah this is horrid. A better idea would be when you do a dps parse on a dummy the system notes your dps score and pairs you with people relative to your score. Healing and tanking could easily be scored with tests designed for them as well

Mr_Potato wrote: »

Show me where ESO has said that you MUST weave, perform animation cancelling, and produce 30-40K in-order to get through any in-game content? Not everyone playing this games wants to have to learn hacks to make the character do more than what was intended or needed. Maybe the issue is your over-inflated expectation of how you want the game to be? However, I do agree players do need to learn the mechanics.

High DPS is not required. Sticking with a PUG is also not required. I usually stick it out with low DPS on vet randoms, But I won't stick around with a PUG not willing to do hard mode on a base game pledge. It is actually pretty rare though that PUGs refuse hard mode for the base game pledges.

For normals, I would be a fool to have any expectations of anyone. So long as they listen when I ask them to stop heavy attacking with their frost staff and stop piercing as a DPS, I'm fine.