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Let's brainstorm together! How would you overhaul the CP system?
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Tyrobag✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I think they should divide the trees into what they actually are, Thief, Mage, and Warrior. Make the thief trees contain all stamina related CP perks, make the mage tree contain all mage related CP perks. The warrior is fine as is, its all about defense and tanking.
By putting both damage and sustain perks for each stat in the same trees they would accomplish two things:
1. Players have to now make a decision on how much sustain they are willing to sacrifice for damage, and visa versa. Rather than how it is now, you always put 75 points into Tenacity and either mooncalf or Arcanist, and then just pile on damage perks for one stat type.
2. It would make hybrids (which are a staple of TES) viable since you no longer need to choose one damage/sustain type, but can balance them as you see fit.
If they did this the only thing left to do to fix hybrids would be to decouple damage from raw magicka/stamina.1 -
Juhasow✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭CP are too plentiful, you can cap most perks, from defensive to offensive ones, to the point of diminishing returns trivializing spending more points in said perk.
To cut it short, atm there are barely any tradeoffs while spending your CP, you can get rediculous numbers of damage modifiers whilst being in heavy, this is counterintuitive and homogenizes classes/armor weights(or in the case of armor weights, it trivializes certain types, since you can easily make up the differences with CP.)
Nonsense, you can have high burst DPS in heavy armor in no CP PVP as well - Clever Alchemist, 7th Legion...
As for the PVE - I have never seen DD using heavy armor or tank using medium armor so yeah....
Then You havn't seen much yet. And people who havn't seen/tested much shouldnt comment on game end.0 -
Juhasow✭✭✭✭✭
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What huge power creep do you have in Cyrodiil? Do you have non CP campaign? You do!!! Then go there!!! Oh wait, nobody is playing there?! There is a reason for this!!! How I'm tired of this "power creep blah blah" talking!!!p_tsakirisb16_ESO wrote: »What new and exciting ideas do you have? What would be your model?
Get back to VR16 and stop there.
The game was designed for level 50 cap. Many feeling entitled, wanted progression (grind) and got Veteran Ranks (16 max), introducing Cadwel's "silver/gold".
Few months later, the same people took the forums demanding more progression (grind) needed, the Champion System was implemented to allow such limitless progression.
A huge powercreep followed since, both on PVE and especially Cyrodiil, made the game been ridiculous easy including a loud minority demanding more power in this forums while at the same time the same people complain everything is too easy. Yet are also the same people who complain about Skyshards grinding.Siohwenoeht wrote: »First, and I know it wouldn't be popular with some, the gear cap needs to increase if they're going to limit or drastically change the CP structure.
Hell no.
There are many statistics available about how many DLC veteran dungeons have been accomplished by player base and usually they flow around 5-10%. Take away CP and they will be flowing around 1%, which will make a gap between extremely skilled players and average players even larger as only these first will have access to top gear!!!
Actually non Cp campaign is pop locked during evnings. People play there because of few things like slightly less lag or simply fact they're not 810 CPs yet and few more. Fact You're tired of something doesnt make is less valid. It's also less easy to create power houses in non CP that will be carried by both sets and CPs which CP campaign struggle with. problem with CP though is that certain builds will still be able take unfair adventage from sets there because when it coems to power creep increase both CPs and sets contributr to that so removing 1 factor doesnt remove the whole issue.
Ahh the statistics argument. You see problem with statistics is that to properly analyse them You need to understand provided data and the context of it. No there isnt many statistics available for DLC content participation of players. The only ones that most of the people is reffering to are playstation ones so we already have just fraction of information. If You would know how achievement registration there works You would've known why creating any theories around numbers presented there is silly. Also according to those achievement charts yes low amount of people accomplish DLC content but the problem is low amount of people even enters it for the 1st time (there is also achievement for that which also low amount of people have). You need to understand that many of people contributing to those statistics will never even visit certain place yet the're still part of the equation.
Finally I never understood that argument about acces to the top gear that only top players have by doing hardest content. Why would average players even need acces to the top gear in the 1st place if they're unable to complete the content where that gear would be usefull and content the're able to clear does not require that top gear ?Edited by Juhasow on April 3, 2019 1:33PM0 -
Kuramas9tails✭✭✭✭✭
✭I, personally, feel like CPs are too broad and too many. I feel like CPs should only affect the role in which you play.
Your friendly neighborhood crazy cat lady of ESO
New PSN name: SundariTheLast. Proud seller in RedEye Empire, PURPLE GANG and Backalley Trading.
AD High Elf Mageblade DPS (General)(Former Empress) -- Stormproof/VMOL, VHOF, VDSA completion
AD Khajiit Mageblade DPS -- Flawless Conquerer
FOR THE QUEEN!
PS4/NA1 -
Tan9oSuccka✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭No CP just feels right.
No whacked out builds augmented by CP.
As far as PVE. Scale enemies down and remove CP. Max level 50. Balancing can actually be done with out juggling CP.
Im sure this will be wildly unpopular, but CP is a huge broken crutch.1 -
Suddwrath✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭I would completely remove CP from the game and add the bonuses granted to CP into armor/class passives.
Currently, there is not a trade-off in the CP system. A light armor sorcerer can put as many points into Hardy as a heavy armor Dragonknight, and players do not have to decide between sustain and damage.
Rather than eliminating these bonuses granted by CP they would simply be transferred into an armor/class passive. Let's use Hardy as an example. Hardy would be transferred to the Heavy Armor skill tree as another passive, and the amount of experience to unlock the current Hardy bonuses would be required for the new Hardy passive (which would keep the current sense of progression). This would also provide balance so that light armor users can't invest into Hardy, but then heavy armor users can't invest into something like Elfborn (which would be transferred into the Light Armor tree).
tl;dr
CP itself will be removed but the bonuses granted by CP will be transferred into armor/class passives.Edited by Suddwrath on April 3, 2019 1:42PM2 -
Commancho✭✭✭✭✭You're not exactly a theorycrafter, are you? This alone wouldn't make hybrids competitive, much less overpowered. It would, however, allow for more freedom among sets and ultimates, and maybe most importantly for the long term health of the game, allow for better differentiation between magicka and stamina abilities than which types of damage they deal.
With the current CP cap and scaling, such allocations would be very suboptimal for PvP and not work out the way you are saying. In fact, we would likely see a lot of sustain CP being transferred into both damage and defense passives.
I would still like to see lower scaling and a lower CP cap compared to the max cp level, but for different reasons.
Yeah, shared weapon/spell dmg or penetration would be overpowered. I bow to your theory crafting skills!Then You havn't seen much yet. And people who havn't seen/tested much shouldnt comment on game end.
Don't try to patronise me here if you have nothing valuable to say. I have over 3k hours in the game, I have done most of the solo/PVE content on veteran HM and I play both CP and no CP PVP on daily basis. Maybe I'm not the best ESO player in the world, but I have enaugh experience to discuss things here.
I don't even need statistics. I have over 3k hours playtime and I have played hundreds of random dungeons with random people. Just go PUG vSP and count how many groups will pass the first boss.Ahh the statistics argument. You see problem with statistics is that to properly analyse them You need to understand provided data and the context of it.
I have never understood why cater few percents of the player base? Why put so much work in quests, dialogues, mechanics, animations, bosses - when 3 months after releasing a DLC dungeon nobody plays it unless there is a pledge for it and they have friends online - because those 5% who could have already done it and they got the gear/achievement they wanted - and the rest is simply not capable of doing it and they never will.Finally I never understood that argument about acces to the top gear that only top players have by doing hardest content. Why would average players even need acces to the top gear in the 1st place if they're unable to complete the content where that gear would be usefull and content the're able to clear does not require that top gear ?0 -
Tebari✭✭✭Here is my idea.
Leave the current CP system in place, but put a cap on the number of points that can be spent. This cap could be 600, 810, 900 or whatever ZOS picks.
After the cap, you would still gain CPs, but you would no longer get points to spend. Instead for each CP you gain you get a reward box. The contents of this reward box could be specific to CPs. For example, there could be style pages, pets or mounts that are only obtainable from the rewards box. It could also contain other items from the game, such as motif chapters, recipes, gold, crafting materials, etc. - basically some reward for playing.
I do not know if this is a good or bad idea, but it is something different than what has been offered so far.2 -
karekiz✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Remove all CP
THEN
Watch as the entire game crumbles.
You think DLC dungeons are "Too hard now", just wait till you don't have those extra bonus resists. Just think we have full 810 CP teams that go to the forums and complain about the first boss in Scalecaller. I can't wait till we take away a couple good thousands off their 5-10K parse.Edited by karekiz on April 3, 2019 2:32PM2 -
Tan9oSuccka✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Remove all CP
THEN
Watch as the entire game crumbles.
You think DLC dungeons are "Too hard now", just wait till you don't have those extra bonus resists. Just think we have full 810 CP teams that go to the forums and complain about the first boss in Scalecaller. I can't wait till we take away a couple good thousands off their 5-10K parse.
I don’t think anyone is suggesting removing CP, and then leaving the jacked up enemies with current scaling.1 -
Skwor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Funny how so few know or have forgotten at least up to CP 160 in the form of VR 14 was the gold disc release of the game. Removing all CP would mean ALL content scaling would be broken from the very core game mechanic in that it is all based on CP 160.0 -
Skwor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭russelmmendoza wrote: »Just make cp900 and lets leave it at that.
Seriously?
Nope. That means I lose all the CP I have worked for above that. One sure way to drive players away is to take away what they have earned.Edited by Skwor on April 3, 2019 2:57PM0 -
RaddlemanNumber7✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Accept that power creep is going to be a thing either with CP or with any replacement system for CP. So, go for the cheap option. Keep the CP functionality as is. Simply reduce the CP of all accounts over 160CP to 160CP. Compensate the players of active accounts with say 5 or 10 crowns for every CP taken off their account.
Maybe set the finishing line for max CP to something below 810. Fire the starter's gun and let the race to the top begin.
This exercise couple be repeated once every year.
PC EU0 -
Qbiken✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Tan9oSuccka wrote: »No CP just feels right.
No whacked out builds augmented by CP.
As far as PVE. Scale enemies down and remove CP. Max level 50. Balancing can actually be done with out juggling CP.
Im sure this will be wildly unpopular, but CP is a huge broken crutch.
CP isn't even in the top 3 of reasons why the power creep is an issue (especially for PvE)Edited by Qbiken on April 3, 2019 3:12PM0 -
Imperial_Voice✭✭✭✭✭
✭This is going be unpopular but I really hope ZoS ignores this thread, lots of terrible ideas from a vocal minority that would screw the majority, if your worried about the game being much easier with champion points then don't spend them like I do.
Agreed. The problem with every thread about replacing the CP system is that each suggestion is infinitely worse than the system we already have. I would take a return to VR over all of these to be honest.0 -
Skwor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Imperial_Voice wrote: »This is going be unpopular but I really hope ZoS ignores this thread, lots of terrible ideas from a vocal minority that would screw the majority, if your worried about the game being much easier with champion points then don't spend them like I do.
Agreed. The problem with every thread about replacing the CP system is that each suggestion is infinitely worse than the system we already have. I would take a return to VR over all of these to be honest.
Lol I think we would be at VR 75 by now if we re-converted CP back to VREdited by Skwor on April 3, 2019 4:00PM1 -
ToRelax✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭You're not exactly a theorycrafter, are you? This alone wouldn't make hybrids competitive, much less overpowered. It would, however, allow for more freedom among sets and ultimates, and maybe most importantly for the long term health of the game, allow for better differentiation between magicka and stamina abilities than which types of damage they deal.
With the current CP cap and scaling, such allocations would be very suboptimal for PvP and not work out the way you are saying. In fact, we would likely see a lot of sustain CP being transferred into both damage and defense passives.
I would still like to see lower scaling and a lower CP cap compared to the max cp level, but for different reasons.
Yeah, shared weapon/spell dmg or penetration would be overpowered. I bow to your theory crafting skills!
There is no shared weapon and spell damage. Penetration is already equal except for a few select set bonuses, light armor passive and CP.
So, thank you for proving my point.
I cut out the misquotes.Edited by ToRelax on April 3, 2019 4:04PMDAGON - ALTADOON - CHIM - GHARTOK
The Covenant is broken. The Enemy has won...
Elo'dryel - Sorc - AR 50 - Hopesfire - EP EU0 -
HowlKimchi✭✭✭✭✭
✭I would not overhaul it. I will probably just limit the cap to somewhere around 300 CP or even lower.0 -
Thrawniel✭✭✭I'd love more utility out of it. Like, we have some, but meta builds discourage you from ever putting points into those.
Atm you have to choose whether you want to be the best power-wise, or have faster crafting xp, cheaper sprint, better chest loot and harvesting loot.
So if ZoS does not want power creep, why not focus more on out of combat utility for all points past cp160?
Make it so you can only use those first 160 cp points for combat-related buffs, and others will go towards things like crafting, pickpocket etc. So new players won't be too stressed about catching up to cp800+ to be competitive in combat. They need cp160 to wear top gear anyways, so it will make sense.
As for rest of the points... keep current utility passives, but add things like:
- increase to refinement and pickpocket chances past what direct skill lines give you. Or - similarly to harvesting passive - a chance to get double yield now and then;
- boost passive for master writ drop chances. I mean, the fastest way to 'grind' cp is doing master writs during double xp events anyways, so why not make it work both ways?
- improvements to our fence npc to allow her launder stolen loot, and maybe even some multiple points passive to lessen her cut from sale of stolen items. Or maybe even ability to separate her sale limit from Outlaw Refuge sale limit. Right now she is useless aside from being housing npc. I have all the justice achievements, and I never used her for any of it. There are plenty of outlaw refuges with guard-free approach, so there was no point to get less gold by using her. If her sale limit, even with current 40% cut was separate, it would be useful for selling off white items and keeping greens and up for outlaw refuge trip.
- high-lvl 'bribe' passive that allows you to pay off your bounty to the guard as a bribe, without loosing stolen goods.
And add something for people who do not care for crafting or thieving too.
Maybe make a high lvl skill that out-of-combat (and if you do not carry scroll, artifact weapon etc) sprint cheaper, to the point of being free, if you have enough spare points to put in it.
Maybe add some top tier skill that reduces and eventually eliminates wayshrine fees.
Maybe another high-tier skill that slows down gear degradation. Which will be useful for vet content players.
Maybe even add the skill that allows you to use only half a potion for its full benefit. There are so many complaints about potion costs, and ability to use a single potion twice will be something desirable, while not affecting economy too badly.
And since prosperous gear was removed, maybe add increase to gold drops into cp passives too? Everyone likes more gold, so people will want to collect cp past 160 for it.
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HowlKimchi✭✭✭✭✭
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So am I. Still does not change what I said
That means my reasons behind why I want CP to be capped is not out of envy. Comprehend?4 -
Skwor✭✭✭✭✭
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So am I. Still does not change what I said
That means my reasons behind why I want CP to be capped is not out of envy. Comprehend?
I knew you played since oct 2014 and had already suspected you were max, and suspected your post was not out of envy. There are also other posts using around 300 that likely are out of envy. All I did was use your post to launch mine since yours was the most recent.
Comprehend?
Edited by Skwor on April 3, 2019 4:12PM0 -
Juhasow✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭You're not exactly a theorycrafter, are you? This alone wouldn't make hybrids competitive, much less overpowered. It would, however, allow for more freedom among sets and ultimates, and maybe most importantly for the long term health of the game, allow for better differentiation between magicka and stamina abilities than which types of damage they deal.
With the current CP cap and scaling, such allocations would be very suboptimal for PvP and not work out the way you are saying. In fact, we would likely see a lot of sustain CP being transferred into both damage and defense passives.
I would still like to see lower scaling and a lower CP cap compared to the max cp level, but for different reasons.
Yeah, shared weapon/spell dmg or penetration would be overpowered. I bow to your theory crafting skills!Then You havn't seen much yet. And people who havn't seen/tested much shouldnt comment on game end.
Don't try to patronise me here if you have nothing valuable to say. I have over 3k hours in the game, I have done most of the solo/PVE content on veteran HM and I play both CP and no CP PVP on daily basis. Maybe I'm not the best ESO player in the world, but I have enaugh experience to discuss things here.
I don't even need statistics. I have over 3k hours playtime and I have played hundreds of random dungeons with random people. Just go PUG vSP and count how many groups will pass the first boss.Ahh the statistics argument. You see problem with statistics is that to properly analyse them You need to understand provided data and the context of it.
I have never understood why cater few percents of the player base? Why put so much work in quests, dialogues, mechanics, animations, bosses - when 3 months after releasing a DLC dungeon nobody plays it unless there is a pledge for it and they have friends online - because those 5% who could have already done it and they got the gear/achievement they wanted - and the rest is simply not capable of doing it and they never will.Finally I never understood that argument about acces to the top gear that only top players have by doing hardest content. Why would average players even need acces to the top gear in the 1st place if they're unable to complete the content where that gear would be usefull and content the're able to clear does not require that top gear ?
Lol maybe You should spent a little bit more time on forums learing how to quote comments because You quote my comments as someone elses.
Amount of hours You've spend in the game means nothing , effectiveness of it does everything. I know ppl that are playing since beta and they know nothing about combat in the game and frankly based on Your comments I can patronise You here and there. For example when You say You havnt seen medium armor tanks in PvE I can say You havnt seen much yet because medium armor tanks are a thing especially in certain boss fights where You go for fast clear. When I am in vBRP our tank in few fights is using powerfull assault on armor to provide additional dmg boost for the team because tanks dont need heavy armor in every fight and if You think differently then You havnt seen much yet. Also I've been doing lot of vet dungeons with medium armor tanks. Fat You dont know it's possible doesnt mean it's impossible.
Well if You dont need statistics then why You are using them also without even fully understanding them ? Again 3k hours isnt valid argument for any discussion about combat in general. How You've spend that 3k hours is important because someone with 400 hours can be more experienced in combat then someone with 3k hours if that 2nd person was mostly meming around. Btw I've spent like 9k hours in the game so by Your logic my points are 3 times more valid then Yours
I even got CP cap on 2 accounts and maxed out 24 characters , played each class on each role on both mag and stam so by Your logic everything I'll say is valid and final unless someone with more time played will say differently 
You see how stupid it sounds ? yet You use that as argument in discussion.
If You do vSP with pugs and You have troubles there after spending 3k hours in the game that perfectly shows You wasted lot of the time from that 3k hours because You should be able to carry any pug team through most of vet DLC content. I dont want to brag but I am pretty sure I would be able to do that vSP without HM with pretty much anyone by explaining mechanics to them if they would read what I wrote ofc. If they wouldnt or if I wouldnt communicate with them then this is not issue on the game side that people do not follow the basics of a group content and dont want to play as a team in a group content. You cant blame the game for every pug that joins group through group finder. That is just being silly.
How do You know what percentages are ? Yousaid You dont care about statistics after all. You contradict Yourself in 2 sentences. Also the goal of creating game end content is not to cater to small amount of playerbase but just to give ppl some goal they can go for while progressing. it's obvious some of them will never reach it but does it mean there shouldnt be goal at all ? Also each DLC content have normal mode for people who struggle to complete vet so if You want to play for story play in normal mode. If You want to use argument that best gear drops in vet mode then You forgot that if someone is unable to complete vet content then he dont need gear from there for anything because he is at that point low or at best medium tier player and low medium tier content can be completed with purple crafted sets easily.
Edited by Juhasow on April 3, 2019 4:36PM0 -
HowlKimchi✭✭✭✭✭
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So am I. Still does not change what I said
That means my reasons behind why I want CP to be capped is not out of envy. Comprehend?
I knew you played since oct 2014 and had already suspected you were max, and suspected your post was not out of envy. There are also other posts using around 300 that likely are out of envy. All I did was use your post to launch mine since yours was the most recent.
Comprehend?
Okay then I guess.
Anyway I like the suggestion that there's a CP cap of around 300, and each successive CP you gain gives you exclusive motifs or titles or costumes, w/e. It can be one possible endgame goal.1
