To BDO or to ESO?

Kiralyn2000 · April 2019

Yeah, whatever your issues with ESO or Blades' income models is, it'll only be worse in BDO. Just prettier.

BrightOblivion · April 2019

Wing wrote: »

as someone who did play BDO extensively

it is a GORGEOUS . . . skinners box.

your looking at spending at least $50-$100 base to be able to play the game at a competent level.

leveling is very fast at first but that's really because the game does not really start until 56 and then is a total grind after.

story (lol its a Korean skinner mmo there isn't one)

open world pvp with no ability to opt out.

a both hollow and deep skill / ability system, its more akin to mortal combat then a traditional mmo, as various keys / buttons do a single action that can be combo'd into other actions. you can get by spamming one skill till 56 then your going to get rekt be people that know their class and combo's and I frames like the back of their hand with no chance of fighting back.
and at 56 you get your "awakened weapons" that I find to be the antitheses of good RPG progression. 1-56 you level slowly unlocking skills and learning how your class plays (you may jump around before you find one you like) and once you get a hang of it at 56 your given this whole list of OP abilities that may or may not play like the class you had just been leveling and you need to "switch" into this mode constantly and using "old" class skills will pull you out of it.

(as awakened weapons will overwrite some of your buttons with different skills but not ALL of them, meaning if you press and old skill you drop back into normal class and have to re "switch" into awakened)

the whole awakened system is dumb and unintuitive

actually not as many players as it seems. the majority of people you see around are bots or offline grinding, be that fishing, setting themselves to walk between towns to level skills, or so forth.

TLDR: its about fashion, there is a reason all the adverts are about looks and character creation, and be prepared to pay an arm and a leg for cosmetics.

its like a free to play browser grind game at its core. but hey, its very pretty.

alternatively I would recommend FF14 if you can get past having to read everything and you can put up with buying the game and game time constantly. or GW2 is a lot of fun, free, and does have a great open world exploration system and plays *similar* to ESO if a bit less forgiving, but if you find ESO to easy then hey, you might like this (though they are owned by EA at the end of the day, and most likely shifting into maintenance mode

I just want to point out that GW2 is owned by Arenanet, which is owned by NCSoft West, which is owned by NCSoft proper (more or less), which is in no way (that I saw) affiliated with Electronic Arts (EA). They also released an article just today regarding plans going forward (which did not involve any sort of maintenance mode). Only time will tell, but do with that info what you will.

It's also another game in which Jeremy Soule had a major hand in the soundtrack for the base game, before doing other projects and deciding anything but VR is too boring/easy for him (IIRC). Their current composer, Maclaine Diemer, is also impressive, though.

Mojmir · April 2019

Path of exiles.lol

Noctus · April 2019

wow 20 bucks thats .... a burger king visit ? cinema visit ? hmmmm buy a pizza or a unicorn mount ;D

Noctus · April 2019

ManwithBeard9 wrote: »

BDO is all about its own cash shop and pay to win items in it. It is worse than ESO as it is now. And likely worse than whatever Blades has at the moment.

yes its ridiculously p2w and grind. most people cant even imagine how far bdo is taking it. tier 4 pets alone and that u can have 4 of em out the same time. its not the only p2w thing its just an example nowadays bdo has even more p2w features its ridiculous. people are real *** comparing those 2 games.

MisterBigglesworth · April 2019

Escape your mental prison and play indie games.

Lord-Otto · April 2019

Your motivation is wrong. Don't punish ZOS for Todd Howard's missteps. Note that Howard is not Bethesda incarnate. He was a junior around Morrowind and only stepped up later. Someone's gotta carry the torch, right? There are still a lot of talented people at Bethesda that do amazing work and don't deserve this backlash. And also bear in mind that despite its many flaws, ESO is the first TES spinoff that actually works well. Remember Battlespire, Redguard and Legends? Ugh.

BDO is amazing and gave me more of an Elder Scrolls vibe than ESO did in the first playthrough. There are locations to explore, mechanics to learn and power to get. Reminded me strongly of my youthful, early days in Oblivion. ESO is very mainstream and combat certainly lacks the ooomph you could achieve in the TES games. But be prepared to open your wallet wiiide open for BDO! x'D Characters and costumes are 10/10, though, so I'd say they're worth it. The dungeon DLCs ESO gets twice a year on the other hand? Eh. That being said, both games can coexist if you wish.

StormChaser3000 · April 2019

BDO is awful. It seems nice and cool when you just start playing, but it's a nightmare grindfest in the end. I got out of that and nothing will make me come back.

JeibuKul · April 2019

BDO is just a slightly better Archeage.. I mean the cash shop is basically how you play the game, or you can grind forever.

Blades annoys me, not just because of how the box timers work, but just the combat and such in general is so slow and clunky. There is no fluidity and freedom in the combat, they should have just put morrowind on mobile. It would have been better.

None of this really should affect your thoughts on ESO, just because the brand name is the same, it is a different thing, run "mostly" by different people. Support the ones that are not doing such a bad job, because lets face no one is really doing a good job or we would all be playing that. You have to pick the game with what you perceive as the least evils, and honestly for me that is ESO right now.

In the end, play what you find fun. Ignore some of the other stuff, and don't put your money towards thing you don't like.

Soleya · April 2019

Digiman wrote: »

I won't even play the game so Zenimax gets nothing... its the same with ZoS there are periods where I unsub, I only buy a monthly membership so its not like Zenimax gets a lot of my money.

I can't understand why a gaming company would charge so much money for digital currency and items, its sheer greed and they need to know this turns people off...

IF they actually wanted to make more money they should do more sales often.

That's the thing, for every 1000 people who are turned off by this model, there is a person spending 1000 times more than everyone else. All comes down to "whales"

Loot crates wouldn't exist if they didn't make money. And as long as people keep buying them, they will be around.

Side note: I hate loot crates, and find them to actually ruin good games. Probably why I find myself playing more small indie games these days. I miss the days when you bought a game and got everything. No extra DLC later, no microtransactions, etc.

MLGProPlayer · April 2019

What does some random mobile game have to do with ESO?

And if you think BDO isn't monetized... lol. BDO is the most aggressively monetized MMO on the market right now. It has actual P2W elements (which ESO does not). BDO also has no PvE content (it's a PvP only game).

MLGProPlayer · April 2019

StormChaser3000 wrote: »

BDO is awful. It seems nice and cool when you just start playing, but it's a nightmare grindfest in the end. I got out of that and nothing will make me come back.

It's sad how Korean devs are great at making big, beautiful MMOs with engaging combat mechanics, but have no idea how to make quality content or a non-P2W monetization system.

Western devs on the other hand make great content and know how to monetize a game without going down the P2W route, but their games all look like crap and have boring, dated combat mechanics.

Lord-Otto · April 2019

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

StormChaser3000 wrote: »

BDO is awful. It seems nice and cool when you just start playing, but it's a nightmare grindfest in the end. I got out of that and nothing will make me come back.

It's sad how Korean devs are great at making big, beautiful MMOs with engaging combat mechanics, but have no idea how to make quality content or a non-P2W monetization system.

Western devs on the other hand make great content and know how to monetize a game without going down the P2W route, but their games all look like crap and have boring, dated combat mechanics.

Korea and to a slightly lesser extent the other far eastern countries seem to have a different mentality. They don't shy away from P2W that easily. In that regard, developers there hit the mark. Guess exporting to the west creates a bit of a suboptimal purpose.

Cously · April 2019

The best way to objectively evaluate how worth is to play a game is calculate how much money and time you spent on it. I have a character nearing 9,000 hours in ESO so I most definately got way more in entertainment than I gave money to the company. About your boycott I kinda understand, I try to do it too, but at the end of the day we live in this virtual trap. I hate Microsoft but have to put up with Windows, hate DRM but love to play Odyssey. To do the right thing with the money we would have to live in caves without running water and power. You really can't opt out of capitalism and its toxicity, especially if you have a family.

TL;DR: Calculate your time spent playing / amount of money spent and see what's the best game for you.

Also, if you moving out of ESO I'd suggest SWTOR (great story, horrible cash shop) or Guild Wars 2 (excellent gameplay, it's not elder scrolls lore sadly).

ArchMikem · April 2019

Davor wrote: »

Thing is, what Bethesda has done with Blades, I don't know that I want to support them anymore. Sadly supporting Zenimax is supporting Bethesda Softworks.

Supporting Zenimax Online Studios is supporting Zenimax Media. Bethesda Games is on a whole different branch of the company tree opposite ZOS. But if you want to think about it in extremes you can do that.

I'm going to keep supporting the developer of the game I'm playing.

Red_Feather · April 2019

I think this world makes it so that there is ultimately no escaping supporting things you don't like. Maybe that is why non existence is so precious.

Jeremy · April 2019

Davor wrote: »

Just need to rant and let out steam. That is all. No need for anyone to really comment unless they want me to see something in a different view. After all, this is just my opinion. There is no right or wrong. Nobody can tell anyone how to feel. So here is some of me letting off some steam to let Zenimax know how I feel. If they read it great. If they don't then at least I tried to air my grievances and tried to do something at least.

GAH! What did Bethesda do. Blades. Wow, really insulting for me now. So upset. Was about to get some stuff for ESO and then Blades made me realize with that kind of money they are asking for, I can but a completely new game for way more content and stuff to do.

So now I am considering instead of getting anything for ESO now, I am thinking of getting Black Desert Online now. I know that is a company worse than Zenimax and their store is horrible and make Zenimax look like a saint.

Thing is, what Bethesda has done with Blades, I don't know that I want to support them anymore. Sadly supporting Zenimax is supporting Bethesda Softworks. I just don't know if I can support this anymore. I am just letting Bethesda Softworks, letting Zenimax Online and Zenimax know, that I will not be supporting them as much anymore. While I may get Elsweyr, that is it. I will not be getting more crows just like I was about to do. While I am not quitting ESO, it's really hard to support them now. I don't like the gambling in the game. I just don't know what to do anymore.

Oh, I know someone will come in here and say my drop will not matter and not make a difference. I know we are no longer the drop in the ocean, we are the new wave of water rushing down. After all, I am part of the eight million plus people who didn't buy Fallout 76 on Launch Day. I did buy it when it was on sale just a few weeks after release. Why did I buy it? To show Bethesda all I have to do is just wait and I can get their game cheaper by waiting now. After all I bought Star Wars Battlefront 2 for $10 just to show EA wait a year, get the game so much cheaper.

I am sure Bethesda would love for us to pay full price for a game. All Bethesda has shown us is we need to wait for the game to work properly, for it to become good and less bugs, so I may as well wait for the game to become properly playable and in most cases get it cheaper as well.

Other games like Battlefield V, Anthem have more than one million less sales than expected from EA. Look at Star Wars Battlefront 1 and 2. Same, didn't meet the sales expected. There are a few other games that had disastrous or horrible launches as well, and people are letting the companies know, it's not acceptable anymore.

While, my few bucks here and there, may not seem like a lot, I believe it is making a difference. After all, how come does it seam ESO is on sale on Steam every two weeks or at least once a month? 12 times a year ESO is on sale on Steam.

So my few bucks here and there, and someone else's few bucks here and there etc, etc is adding up.

Again, I am not quitting ESO at all. I just feel I need to air my 2 cents. (Dang it, we don't have pennies no more in Canada) Ok, so I am airing my nickle then.

I am tired of loot crates. I am tired of gambling in games. Yes I know companies are in the business of making money. Thing is, want to make money, make a great product. Want to make money by gambling in a game, then start up a casino and make money that way.

OK, I let off some steam now. I do feel better now. Now back to playing some ESO.

I'm not thrilled with some of the changes either. But I would not get your hopes with Black Desert Online. Elder Scrolls Online is superior in nearly every way.

Black Desert has great graphics and some pretty awesome combat animations - but that's really where my praise ends. The game is not scaled. So you will out-level nearly the entire game in a matter of weeks (possibly days) causing questing to become a boring chore. There is also almost nothing to do on the game except grind.... grind.... grind.... in the same boring spots. There are no dungeons, hardly any group content - and a pitiful selection of armor with an RNG based upgrade system that is little more than a scam to make money. It's one the most boring and shallow MMORPGs I've ever played to be quite honest with you.

JinMori · April 2019

Zos, zenimax bethesda etc... All the same really, they are all subsidiaries of zenimax.

Now, bdo, could be an amazing game, but the grind and p2w aspect is off putting, maybe it will chance but i wouldn't count on it.

One general suggestion, don't put your trust in any companies, treat them as you would treat a professional, because they will use that to their advantage, they are there for profit, and while that's fine and all, they should also be held to as certain standard, they won't really feel remorse by using you as a cash cow, or using "fans" as a tool, so they should be criticized for shady moves, always, no matter how squeaky clean their record might have been up to that point. At the same time, they will also be rewarded if they make a really good game, by a good profit, so really, being a fan of a company, just puts you in a situation of disadvantage, not only for yourself, but for everyone that protects shady moves, know that you are ruining it for everyone else, no one but the company benefits from these actions.

Davor · April 2019

ManwithBeard9 wrote: »

BDO is all about its own cash shop and pay to win items in it. It is worse than ESO as it is now. And likely worse than whatever Blades has at the moment.

Other wise, we would have never got The Elder Scrolls. Why? Because there was no multiplayer and back then games needed to have multiplayer and be online games. Funny how Bethesda has changed there. Instrea

Kiralyn2000 wrote: »

Yeah, whatever your issues with ESO or Blades' income models is, it'll only be worse in BDO. Just prettier.

It doesn't matter if it's worse. It's money that has gone to them and not Zenimax. Just because someone acts like an A hole, doesn't mean we all should act like A holes. Same for companies, just because other companies do it, doesn't mean that Bethesda should.

Noctus wrote: »

wow 20 bucks thats .... a burger king visit ? cinema visit ? hmmmm buy a pizza or a unicorn mount ;D

Or another game.

ArchMikem wrote: »

Davor wrote: »

Thing is, what Bethesda has done with Blades, I don't know that I want to support them anymore. Sadly supporting Zenimax is supporting Bethesda Softworks.

Supporting Zenimax Online Studios is supporting Zenimax Media. Bethesda Games is on a whole different branch of the company tree opposite ZOS. But if you want to think about it in extremes you can do that.

I'm going to keep supporting the developer of the game I'm playing.

Thing is, Bethesda Softworks, is the publisher. So supporting Zenimax is also saying what Bethesda Softworks is doing is acceptable. So I am showing Bethesda Softworks that they shouldn't be acting like how they do. After all, times have changed and the "gamer" even the "common gammer" are not going to take it anymore.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V9AbeALNVkk

lelink88 · April 2019

if you want a Pay to Win game withour PVE or questing. If you want grind forever and alot of hack cheat, go ahead. Problem about BDO that they have alot of HACK and cheat.

https://www.mmorpg.com/black-desert-online/news/updated-black-desert-community-in-an-uproar-over-shadow-arena-hackers-and-false-bans-1000052006

About Blade, it's Mobile game, it's for lasy cansual player, and no hardcore player there. No1 will pay 60$ or 15$ sub fee for a Mobile game. BTW can any1 show me any mobile game is not PTW?

idk · April 2019

I never understand why people come to the forums with threads like this. We do not know the person so we could really care less what game they play.

And then after skimming through this one seems to be upset with how Blades was monetized and is considering playing a game that pushes monetization of the cash shop even more then ESO does. Though OP does not really explain what he is upset with concerning blades in this mindless rant.

In the end it really does not make sense. After all, pretty much all games are monetize a cash shop heavily and that aspect will be part of the business for a long time. So if this is what has OP upset they need to either get over it or stop playing MMORPGs.

Isojukka · April 2019

Don't go to BDO, it is just grind after grind and gambling with your gear. That game does not have any gameplay at all after, let say 300h. It was "awesome" at start, but became dull fast. But if you wanna try it, you should get it on pc, because you can have it almost free and in bdo forum you can pick up quest code or something like that.

Anhedonie · April 2019

I mean...all korean MMOs try to *** you in the ass big time. So, you know.

Ryknos · April 2019

BDO is pretty nice with it's combat, housing, and crafting system but not engaging enough because all it is is just grinding with very little to no lore. In ESO every quest is an adventure and that's what I like about it. Everyone always wants to rush things but never enjoy them.

I have been in Guild Wars 2, LOTRO, WoW, Allods, BDO and the game with the best lore so far out of all these MMO titles is ESO. ESO has elements of every mmo that should exist, and the only mmo that even comes close to ESO is LOTRO, and that's because what drives and should keep driving the MMORPG games is the RPG part.

Blades is a mobile game, mobile games are just that, games that you would play on your cell phone during free time at work or during a ride in the train. You don't need to play it as if it were a console/PC title.

Ryknos · April 2019

Ryknos wrote: »

BDO is pretty nice with it's combat, housing, and crafting system but not engaging enough because all it is is just grinding with very little to no lore. In ESO every quest is an adventure and that's what I like about it. Everyone always wants to rush things but never enjoy them.

I have been in Guild Wars 2, LOTRO, WoW, Allods, BDO and the game with the best lore so far out of all these MMO titles is ESO. ESO has elements of every mmo that should exist, and the only mmo that even comes close to ESO is LOTRO, and that's because what drives and should keep driving the MMORPG games is the RPG part.

Blades is a mobile game, mobile games are just that, games that you would play on your cell phone during free time at work or during a ride in the train. You don't need to play it as if it were a console/PC title.

Also as an added note I don't like the practice in blades. It should just be buy to play with a set price of 15 - 30 dollars and have no micro-transactions. I agree that if people don't like it enough Bethesda will see the flaw in their strategy. Micro-transactions put into a game like this is just awful.

Jayroo · April 2019

BDO if you literally have zero life...
Too much stuff.
Too Complicating.

Ysbriel · April 2019

I'm currently playing blades since i signed for the early access right after the announcement , its a good game.
The melee skills should really land on TES6 if that is ever gonna be a thing, Todd Howard's face when he did that TES6 announcement did not convince me at all. Moving forward the business model is just like any other free to play game and such games are either intended to casually play it or try you luck at buying crates and its not Bethesda's first game like this anyways. It does not have anything to do with how Zenimax handles ESO nor it has anything to do with the current timeline of ESO.

Knootewoot · April 2019

BDO

The atmosphere and environment and enemy mobs are great. No instances, towns that actual feel like towns, a night clock that warns that mobs are getting stronger, dynamic weather effects, it's great.

But the PvP, the grinding, the RNG put me off after a while

TS:DR
BDO has a great interactive world and a great housing system. It is awesome as a roleplayer or people who just want to adventure or have a virtual second life.

That said... i played a lot but quit after a while.

The PVP sucks. It is also very gear dependant and making great gear is a sick grind with lots of RNG involved.
So i decided not to participate in PvP.
But then you go adventuring and you get *** by PvP people because "you were standing to close to their grinding spot".

I loved the fishing, i crafted very nice boats (server first on raft, rowing boat and fisherboat here).

But in the end i found my PC never shutting down because afk life skill grinding. Mostly when i woke up i found myself dead and my boat destroyed if i did that.

Being demolished by bored angry kids who have the best of the best gear while i run around in poor man's armor trying to adventure.

perolord · April 2019

Let me anwser you... because i play ESO for like 2 years now... last year pretty almost every day.

AAAAAAnd like 3 weeks ago i wanted to play BDO, because it looks cool, it have that awsome profession system.. which is cool, boats,... great... and i bought the game, played it for like few days, then i started thinking...

in BDO there are no dungeons, raids... i do not play much of these.. but i would sure miss it...

Also, this grinding starting to kill me already... just to grind some things, i must go afk fishing for example.. over night,... and i get the filling that all i do in game is evolving around grinding... (not to mention, i really do not l ike this style of combat.. hyped combat... ).

So i spent some money by accident... and i went back to ESO as soon as i could

...

Another thing, BDO is only for pure pleasure and fun. If you are that type of guy, that you want to be close to the best ones... you simply can not do that in BDO, the hours that they have alredy in BDO, you can not get even close. They have computers on 24/7 to grind when they do not play...

At the end it is your decision... but i enjoy ESO waaaaaaaaaaaaay more than i did BDO....

pod88kk · April 2019

Do or do not, nobody cares