To BDO or to ESO?

Mathius_Mordred

Effectively you're saying that because a company who is related to the company you WERE going to spend money on has introduced a game with which you can't agree with the monetization process you are going to go and spend your money on a different game that has an even worse monetization process.

Man, that is some screwed up logic. Here's an idea, if you don't want ZOS to get your money then save it, but it into your bank account and don't give it to any of the evil capitalist toxic scum companies who make such wonderful entertainment for you and the rest of us!

It's like saying I'm not going to upgrade my really nice car because my car manufacturer's sister company has made a car which you have to pay to drive, so instead, I'm going to buy another car which you have to pay even more to drive.

At the end of the day, as the poster above says, do or do not, we don't care.

Ermiq

@Davor

Davor wrote: »

ESO is part of Bethesda Softworks (the publisher, not the developers).

They are not actually. Both Bethesda Softworks (publisher) and ZOS are part of big Zenimax Media family, but Bethesda Softworks is not an owner of ZOS. ZOS (and ESO) are controlled and owned by Zenimax Media itself.

Turelus

Artim_X wrote: »

ZOS has nothing to do with Blades so the paywall aspect of that game shouldn't affect how you feel about ESO. The crown store generates a lot of money for ZOS so they can afford to have the game itself on sale quite often. I don't particularly like crown crates, but I'm glad that I can buy whatever I want straight off with gems. It pays to save.

I've played BDO... Very cool character creator, but the grindy nature of that game is such a huge turnoff for me. To each their own I suppose.

However we can't buy everything with gems and more and they've started doing various expensive gem only items.

Gems were meant to be something good for the crates, now ZOS has turned them into yet another currency and one you can't even buy direct but have to gamble for.

Tan9oSuccka

The recommended “ESO Killers” are not even in the same conversation.

Notably Black Desert and Terra. Laughably bad in my opinion.

Nope. Not even close. Made me appreciate the hard work done on ESO.

xMovingTarget

I have been playing BDO for 3 years straight. Then returned to ESO.
BDO is a boring grind game with nice graphics. All you do is run in circles. Leveling, upgrading gear etc.
The cash model is just frustrating. Also would I say the game is not for casuals since you can't get anywhere in a reasonable amount of time.

Or well, you inject alot of money. A single costume costs 35€. Also has bonuses. Also is the only way for you to jot look like a potato bag.
The game barely has any content apart from new areas to run in a circle in. No pve content at all. And the pvp is fairly limited.
You have a BG and openworld siege, which is pretty dead at this point. A bad battle royal gamemode which most hate.

BDO feels like minimal effort for maximum profits.

ESO actually a lot more content. Both in PvE and pvp than bdo. When I returned, I was overwhelmed by the amount of content I had in front of me. I left it end 2015 for BDO. A regrettable decision. Not talking about the people I met in BDO. From which some became good friends.

Jeremy wrote: »

Black Desert has great graphics and some pretty awesome combat animations - but that's really where my praise ends. The game is not scaled. So you will out-level nearly the entire game in a matter of weeks (possibly days) causing questing to become a boring chore. There is also almost nothing to do on the game except grind.... grind.... grind.... in the same boring spots. There are no dungeons, hardly any group content - and a pitiful selection of armor with an RNG based upgrade system that is little more than a scam to make money. It's one the most boring and shallow MMORPGs I've ever played to be quite honest with you.

This is literally like you ripped it out of my mind. Are you my long lost twin?

jainiadral

Davor wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

How any of this corresponds with ESO I'm not exactly sure (seeing as even if under the same umbrella really aren't the same company)

It applies to ESO because I was going to buy crowns and Blades showed me, why buy $20 in gems (what ever the currency is) and get so little just like how Zenimax is doing as well. 600 what ever for that mount they are asking for? It seems Bethesda Softworks is pushing this and I don't want to support them anymore.

ESO is part of Bethesda Softworks (the publisher, not the developers).

What I am hoping this to do would show that buying stuff from the crown store and asking the prices they do, we can get better bang for our buck. So I am hoping that Zenimax will give us better bang for our buck here.

The big question to ask yourself is why you're playing ESO. Do you like to raid? PvP? Quest and explore? You want to find a game that matches your core reason for playing. Otherwise, you're going to end up unhappy.

The other thing I'm wondering is if you have an issue with Bethesda or the way ZOS is changing its monetization, why buy anything? Just play the game as you normally would without splashing out any cash. That way, your core gaming experience remains unchanged, you get to play what you already enjoy, and you're not fiscally supporting what you don't like.

Be pragmatic and realistic when you answer your questions, otherwise you're going to make yourself miserable when you should be having fun.

Huyen

Blades inst avaible yet in europe tho. And regarding the cashgrab, good luck finding an online game that doesnt use those tactics.

danno8

People need to stop with the "I don't like this part of what a company (or person) does so I'm gonna stop all support for everything they do, say, touch or support themselves!!" nonsense.

If you don't like Blades, then don't buy it. If you don't like gamble boxes, don't buy them. If you don't like a DLC don't buy it. Be specific in how you spend your money so companies know what you like and what you don't.

Davor

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

What does some random mobile game have to do with ESO?

And if you think BDO isn't monetized... lol. BDO is the most aggressively monetized MMO on the market right now. It has actual P2W elements (which ESO does not). BDO also has no PvE content (it's a PvP only game).

I am curious. Do you even understand what I am trying to say? I know I don't explain myself very well. I have said this has nothing to do with Blades. Blades just made me realize something that I just basically accepted. This has something to do with the ESO Crown Store.

Also id doesn't matter if BDO is monetized. I even said it was worse than what ESO does. So I am sure you haven't read what I said. All that should matter is my money is not going to Zenimax and Bethesda Softworks and it's going to a competitor.

pod88kk wrote: »

Do or do not, nobody cares

Well, since you seemed to take energy and your time to comment, you do care some amount. Also ask Bethesda how their Atom Shop is working. With eight million less sales I am sure Bethesda is caring that is eight million people never going to see their Atom Shop.

So nobody cares? Yeah, those days are over. Ask Anthem. Ask Fallout 76. Heck even ask Zenimax before One Tamriel if the care or not.

Anhedonie wrote: »

I mean...all korean MMOs try to *** you in the ass big time. So, you know.

OH I know. Again. Doesn't matter if they do or not. All this means is Zenimax is not getting my money. So if Zenimax wants my money, what are they going to do to earn it?

lelink88 wrote: »

if you want a Pay to Win game withour PVE or questing. If you want grind forever and alot of hack cheat, go ahead. Problem about BDO that they have alot of HACK and cheat.

Again, that is not the point. I don't want a pay to win game. I don't to grind. Thing is, even if I get 100 hours out of BDO and never play again, that is 100 hours not playing ESO. That is me not seeing their crown store. That is me not giving Zenimax my money. That is money going to their cometitor.

After all, if $20 can give me 100 hours over a $20 cosmetic, that for me is better value. Yes I know BDO is worse off. I did say that. I can tell you haven't read all the posts and just wanted to comment.

The point is, while my $20 here and there (well a bit more than that if we are talking about throughout the year) is nothing, but as I said, I am no longer a drop. When millions of drops start doing this it is taking their toll. It already happened to ESO. That is why we got One Tameriel. It happened to Fallout 76. eight million plus non sales.

Look, I am old school. While there is much we can't do, at least letting the company know is a respectful thing to do on why we are not buying their "services" anymore. If they choose to ignore it, so be it. At least I tried.

perolord wrote: »

Let me anwser you... because i play ESO for like 2 years now... last year pretty almost every day.

AAAAAAnd like 3 weeks ago i wanted to play BDO, because it looks cool, it have that awsome profession system.. which is cool, boats,... great... and i bought the game, played it for like few days, then i started thinking...

in BDO there are no dungeons, raids... i do not play much of these.. but i would sure miss it...

Also, this grinding starting to kill me already... just to grind some things, i must go afk fishing for example.. over night,... and i get the filling that all i do in game is evolving around grinding... (not to mention, i really do not l ike this style of combat.. hyped combat... ).

So i spent some money by accident... and i went back to ESO as soon as i could ...

Another thing, BDO is only for pure pleasure and fun. If you are that type of guy, that you want to be close to the best ones... you simply can not do that in BDO, the hours that they have alredy in BDO, you can not get even close. They have computers on 24/7 to grind when they do not play...

At the end it is your decision... but i enjoy ESO waaaaaaaaaaaaay more than i did BDO....

Thank you for caring. I appreciate it. I am not leaving ESO at all. I did that before when they pissed me off. I know ESO is the best of the worst. Heck I would for me, say they are the best. I will not quit ESO because the actual developers work hard with what they are told to do. Thing is, I don't need to give my money since I already bought the game.

Thing is, why would a company take a chance of people leaving and going else where? (he he) I mean you were on the rocks once before, why even take a chance of that again, after seeing how the customers have changed. This gets me thinking that ESO is just for a buck and there is no long term plan if it ever tanks again and becomes like it was before One Tamreil.

Davor

idk wrote: »

I never understand why people come to the forums with threads like this. We do not know the person so we could really care less what game they play.

And then after skimming through this one seems to be upset with how Blades was monetized and is considering playing a game that pushes monetization of the cash shop even more then ESO does. Though OP does not really explain what he is upset with concerning blades in this mindless rant.

In the end it really does not make sense. After all, pretty much all games are monetize a cash shop heavily and that aspect will be part of the business for a long time. So if this is what has OP upset they need to either get over it or stop playing MMORPGs.

This has nothing to do with Blades. Why come to the forums? At least I know I said something that was viewed by someone. If I send a personal letter, all I know it is never seen and thrown away. At least for my peace of mind, I know at least I tried. If we are going to believe in Todd and that he tells the truth, Zenimax/Bethesda are reading this.

I don't care if people care on my opinion or not. I just needed to let out some steam. I find it funny why people say we can't do it. As much as I harp on Bethesda and Zenimax, they ALLOW us to vent. They give us a platform to vent. So that is what I did.

No where did I say anyone is wrong. No where do I say I am correct. This is how I feel. I don't need to get over it. Again, I love saying this now, over eight million people got "over it" and didn't buy and support Fallout 76. So your point of getting over it, what does it mean? It's not doing Bethesda or Zenimax any good.

Again, Ask EA. They said "don't like it, don't buy it". How did that go for them?

Davor

Ermiq wrote: »

@Davor

Davor wrote: »

ESO is part of Bethesda Softworks (the publisher, not the developers).

They are not actually. Both Bethesda Softworks (publisher) and ZOS are part of big Zenimax Media family, but Bethesda Softworks is not an owner of ZOS. ZOS (and ESO) are controlled and owned by Zenimax Media itself.

They are part of ESO because they publish ESO. That would be like saying EA has nothing to do with Anthem or Star Wars Battlefield etc. Zenimax is a shell company anyways or it was and that is how it started up to be. Thing is, Bethesda Softworks publishes the game, so they are part of it.

Mathius_Mordred wrote: »

Effectively you're saying that because a company who is related to the company you WERE going to spend money on has introduced a game with which you can't agree with the monetization process you are going to go and spend your money on a different game that has an even worse monetization process.

Man, that is some screwed up logic. Here's an idea, if you don't want ZOS to get your money then save it, but it into your bank account and don't give it to any of the evil capitalist toxic scum companies who make such wonderful entertainment for you and the rest of us!

It's like saying I'm not going to upgrade my really nice car because my car manufacturer's sister company has made a car which you have to pay to drive, so instead, I'm going to buy another car which you have to pay even more to drive.

At the end of the day, as the poster above says, do or do not, we don't care.

He he. You do care. If people say they don't care, they wouldn't comment. So the 0.0000000000000001% you really love me. Kidding aside I know I didn't explain myself very well when I was letting off steam.

Basically I was about to get some crowns for ESO. Before I got to doing it, I surfed the web as I usually do. That is when I read some reviews for Blades. Seeing what Blades did, reminded me on what ESO does. I guess for some reason, I just "accepted". Why, who knows, and doesn't matter in the end. In the end it reminded me I don't like this, and I don't want to support it. While like most people say, you can't get away with it, I can let Zenimax/Bethesda know I will no accept it from them.

Just because others do it, doesn't mean I should accept it from Zenimax and or Bethesda. So since I am not liking the increased pricing Zenimax or Bethesda Softworks (who ever sets the price, usually the publishers I believe) is doing, I am letting them know that I can get better value else where.

Just because I bought BDO doesn't mean I am going to support them. Once I had my fill, I will move on to something else. That doesn't mean I will stop playing ESO either. Thing is, they are not getting money from me anymore like they use to. I am sure Zenimax/Bethesda would love for me to continue my ESO+ and buying crowns instead of a once a year "story".

So if I am playing other games, that means I am buying other games where ESO would have been the place for my money. Seeing the 600 jewels for a mount now, is just ludicrous. That reinforces my belief that Zenimax/Bethesda is in the business of gambling to make money instead of making money by making an awesome product.

So if it takes going to another evil, then so be it. There is Star Trek Online. Free to play. So no money need to invest. While I don't like that is a gambling machine, I just don't need to play it. There is also Path of Exiles. Another free to play. I even spent money on there because I wanted to support them.

I guess, like someone said either here on this thread or somewhere else, don't make your customers feel like suckers when fleecing them for money. Look, I understand companies need to make money. What ever happened to making a good/great/awesome product to make money.

todokete

ESO because anime grindy MMO's suck

Ogou

@Davor Where did you get the number that 8 million people did not buy Fallout 76? That just seems like a weird metrics to me.

Also I doubt anyone at ZOS/BethSoft/Zenimax Media is going to notice you not buying some crowns, as you said you're just a drop in the ocean. And no, the fact that people did not buy X other game does not change the fact that as far as ZOS is concerned you're still just a drop in the ocean.
Funnily enough I think this thread has a better chance of getting your concerns heard than spending $20 on another game.

Davor

Ogou wrote: »

@Davor Where did you get the number that 8 million people did not buy Fallout 76? That just seems like a weird metrics to me.

Also I doubt anyone at ZOS/BethSoft/Zenimax Media is going to notice you not buying some crowns, as you said you're just a drop in the ocean. And no, the fact that people did not buy X other game does not change the fact that as far as ZOS is concerned you're still just a drop in the ocean.
Funnily enough I think this thread has a better chance of getting your concerns heard than spending $20 on another game.

It's just a guess and reading between the lines of what Bethesda said and reading a few other sources a while ago. I haven't been proven correct yet, but I haven't been proven wrong yet either. As I said, just a guess. I am actually being generous since some of the numbers I was reading was 13 million copies not sold that Bethesda was expecting. What ever the actual numbers I believe Bethesda are really not impressed with the numbers sold and physical copies returned.

Ogou

Davor wrote: »

Ogou wrote: »

@Davor Where did you get the number that 8 million people did not buy Fallout 76? That just seems like a weird metrics to me.

Also I doubt anyone at ZOS/BethSoft/Zenimax Media is going to notice you not buying some crowns, as you said you're just a drop in the ocean. And no, the fact that people did not buy X other game does not change the fact that as far as ZOS is concerned you're still just a drop in the ocean.
Funnily enough I think this thread has a better chance of getting your concerns heard than spending $20 on another game.

It's just a guess and reading between the lines of what Bethesda said and reading a few other sources a while ago. I haven't been proven correct yet, but I haven't been proven wrong yet either. As I said, just a guess. I am actually being generous since some of the numbers I was reading was 13 million copies not sold that Bethesda was expecting. What ever the actual numbers I believe Bethesda are really not impressed with the numbers sold and physical copies returned.

Ah, so it's more Bethesda selling fewer copies than they expected and not 8 million people coming together to show Bethesda they disagree with what Bethesda is doing by not buying the game like I thought. Thanks for the clarification.

Mintaka5

As an avid BDO player, I can say I find myself playing BDO way more than ESO these days. Why? End-game in ESO is awful. If you're max CP and have been casually playing for years, ESO is just an aggravating, unrewarding, and non-engaging potato. Let me set forth a few examples of why I am simply signing in for events, and to say hi to guildies:

1) Drops of anything are so mundane. I do not need to be emptying my inventory of 50 white-tier worthless items it's boring, and offers no incentives to keep playing.
2) Drops of some sought after set items is nearly impossible. I have been farming vCoA 1 and 2 for over a year now, and not a single BSW staff. I'm sorry but if I farm a dungeon for longer than a week, I should get what I am looking for. This is just one scenario out of many, and honestly I'm bored to tears running that dungeon now. So I stopped.
3) PvP is not rewarding to for seasoned players. It only rewards good gamers. Not all of us have that or can attain it. Why did I spend years leveling my character if all I get is the same or worse performance as some bluffing smurf.
4) The game is shallow as far as gaining experience, crafting, or even having some other content that builds upon the core content. Also crafting and life skills are compartmentalized from one another. In other words gathering should somehow tie-in to crafting in order to level either one.
5) Honestly if I spend a lot of time farming and want to up my odds of getting better drops, I 'd want to be able to craft functional potions to up my "luck". And maybe be able to stack this with a P2W pack that would give me guaranteed better drops, so I don't have to put up with ESO's ***-poor RNG for eternity.

Go play BDO! I love it for its complexity, the fight mechanics are *** awesome, and honestly participating in the game is way more engaging and most of all rewarding EVERY DAMN DAY!

idk

Tan9oSuccka wrote: »

The recommended “ESO Killers” are not even in the same conversation.

Notably Black Desert and Terra. Laughably bad in my opinion.

Nope. Not even close. Made me appreciate the hard work done on ESO.

And there have been three since ESO launched. BDO and two that launched soon after ESO. Wildstar and archeage.

Some raiders went to Wildstar briefly. Similarly with BDO, they came back due to lack of substance.

casparian

idk wrote: »

Tan9oSuccka wrote: »

The recommended “ESO Killers” are not even in the same conversation.

Notably Black Desert and Terra. Laughably bad in my opinion.

Nope. Not even close. Made me appreciate the hard work done on ESO.

And there have been three since ESO launched. BDO and two that launched soon after ESO. Wildstar and archeage.

Some raiders went to Wildstar briefly. Similarly with BDO, they came back due to lack of substance.

Don't forget Bless Online, which was totally 100% going to kill ESO and render anyone who didn't switch to it a complete fool.

Mintaka5

idk wrote: »

Some raiders went to Wildstar briefly. Similarly with BDO, they came back due to lack of substance.

Wildstar is/was garbage.

BDO lacks substance? You're trippin'! If you can't find substance in BDO you need to just stay inside the ESO potato.

idk

Mintaka5 wrote: »

As an avid BDO player, I can say I find myself playing BDO way more than ESO these days. Why? End-game in ESO is awful. If you're max CP and have been casually playing for years, ESO is just an aggravating, unrewarding, and non-engaging potato. Let me set forth a few examples of why I am simply signing in for events, and to say hi to guildies:

LOL, and what fabulous end game does BDO have? Just watched a video of BDO end game and the guy literally says there is no end game in BDO.

Malacthulhu

I disagree with bdo being worse. As far as console goes, bdo blows eso out of the water in most categories and no you do not need the cash shop however in bdo you do not need to sub for inventory management either. Graphics are better, user friendly. Redundant stuff like for consoles where we have no access to addons etc. Consoles have recieved the royal treatment for bdo, where zenimax just basically ignores that customer. Loot at the stuff zenimax charges for houses etc in bdo a personal house is 3 contribution points which you return if you want lmao. Eso needs a overhaul and new game engine instead of trying to milk the pixel crack *** for extra bucks.

Jeremy

Mintaka5 wrote: »

As an avid BDO player, I can say I find myself playing BDO way more than ESO these days. Why? End-game in ESO is awful. If you're max CP and have been casually playing for years, ESO is just an aggravating, unrewarding, and non-engaging potato. Let me set forth a few examples of why I am simply signing in for events, and to say hi to guildies:

1) Drops of anything are so mundane. I do not need to be emptying my inventory of 50 white-tier worthless items it's boring, and offers no incentives to keep playing.
2) Drops of some sought after set items is nearly impossible. I have been farming vCoA 1 and 2 for over a year now, and not a single BSW staff. I'm sorry but if I farm a dungeon for longer than a week, I should get what I am looking for. This is just one scenario out of many, and honestly I'm bored to tears running that dungeon now. So I stopped.
3) PvP is not rewarding to for seasoned players. It only rewards good gamers. Not all of us have that or can attain it. Why did I spend years leveling my character if all I get is the same or worse performance as some bluffing smurf.
4) The game is shallow as far as gaining experience, crafting, or even having some other content that builds upon the core content. Also crafting and life skills are compartmentalized from one another. In other words gathering should somehow tie-in to crafting in order to level either one.
5) Honestly if I spend a lot of time farming and want to up my odds of getting better drops, I 'd want to be able to craft functional potions to up my "luck". And maybe be able to stack this with a P2W pack that would give me guaranteed better drops, so I don't have to put up with ESO's ***-poor RNG for eternity.

Go play BDO! I love it for its complexity, the fight mechanics are *** awesome, and honestly participating in the game is way more engaging and most of all rewarding EVERY DAMN DAY!

BDO may be a lot of things, but "complex" is not one of them. Fight mechanics? First - the game had absolutely no character customization. Your classes are all preset and the extent of player interaction with character's build is choosing which skills to buy first. And that is basically it. You may as well be playing an action game where you just pick your character at the start. It has none of the depth usually associated with RPG games where the player is intimately involved in the construction of their character's build.

Secondly, while the combat looks great - it's not exactly "complex". You slot your abilities and there are some combos you can do - but it's a pretty standard affair. I'll never understand why people go on about how amazing the combat in the game is. It's is on par with an average action game I guess.

As far as your criticisms of ESO and "drops" go - ESO has a vast assortment of loot when compared to BDO - which maybe has a half dozen armor sets in total that is shared among all classes with lame set bonuses. I've never played a game with such a boring and homogenized selection of loot as Black Desert Online. In reference to farming dungeons - at least ESO actually has dungeons you can farm. Not to mention BDO is the most grindiest game I've ever played. You just spend it solo grinding in specific locations on the map instead, which just makes the farming even more boring.

In respect to PvP - Black Desert PvP is some of the dumbest I've ever seen. While I"m not a huge fan of ESO's pvp - it is still miles above what Black Desert has to offer. Being ambushed while you are farming on the map by credit card warriors is about as much fun as having holes drilled into my skull.

As far as crafting goes - I really don't see what BDO does so much better or why you think ESO is so shallow by comparison. "It lets you craft functional potions" that increase your luck?" Whoop-dee-do. You can craft functional potions on ESO too that do everything from increase your combat stats to turning you invisible.

But none of this compares to you actually criticizing ESO in favor of BDO on the basis of RNG. This makes me wonder if you have even played Black Desert Online. Because that game is basically built on RNG and is the most RNG-heavy game I have ever played in my life. There is literally nothing on that game that isn't reliant on RNG. So I don't see how anyone who seems to have a problem with RNG-based design (as you seem to) could ever recommend Black Desert Online to anyone.

Mintaka5

idk wrote: »

LOL, and what fabulous end game does BDO have? Just watched a video of BDO end game and the guy literally says there is no end game in BDO.

AFAIC BDO doesn't need it. It keeps me engaged in the game so much that I am not at all focused on end-game. ESO on the other hand has an end-game of slowly ending my experience with it.

ZOS_RikardD

Greetings,

We're closing this thread because it only serves to bash Zenimax and Bethesda. It is otherwise off-topic and non-constructive.

Please take a moment to review our Community Rules here and please keep future conversations constructive and on-topic.

Thank you for your understanding.