To BDO or to ESO?

Davor · April 2019

Just need to rant and let out steam. That is all. No need for anyone to really comment unless they want me to see something in a different view. After all, this is just my opinion. There is no right or wrong. Nobody can tell anyone how to feel. So here is some of me letting off some steam to let Zenimax know how I feel. If they read it great. If they don't then at least I tried to air my grievances and tried to do something at least.

GAH! What did Bethesda do. Blades. Wow, really insulting for me now. So upset. Was about to get some stuff for ESO and then Blades made me realize with that kind of money they are asking for, I can but a completely new game for way more content and stuff to do.

So now I am considering instead of getting anything for ESO now, I am thinking of getting Black Desert Online now. I know that is a company worse than Zenimax and their store is horrible and make Zenimax look like a saint.

Thing is, what Bethesda has done with Blades, I don't know that I want to support them anymore. Sadly supporting Zenimax is supporting Bethesda Softworks. I just don't know if I can support this anymore. I am just letting Bethesda Softworks, letting Zenimax Online and Zenimax know, that I will not be supporting them as much anymore. While I may get Elsweyr, that is it. I will not be getting more crows just like I was about to do. While I am not quitting ESO, it's really hard to support them now. I don't like the gambling in the game. I just don't know what to do anymore.

Oh, I know someone will come in here and say my drop will not matter and not make a difference. I know we are no longer the drop in the ocean, we are the new wave of water rushing down. After all, I am part of the eight million plus people who didn't buy Fallout 76 on Launch Day. I did buy it when it was on sale just a few weeks after release. Why did I buy it? To show Bethesda all I have to do is just wait and I can get their game cheaper by waiting now. After all I bought Star Wars Battlefront 2 for $10 just to show EA wait a year, get the game so much cheaper.

I am sure Bethesda would love for us to pay full price for a game. All Bethesda has shown us is we need to wait for the game to work properly, for it to become good and less bugs, so I may as well wait for the game to become properly playable and in most cases get it cheaper as well.

Other games like Battlefield V, Anthem have more than one million less sales than expected from EA. Look at Star Wars Battlefront 1 and 2. Same, didn't meet the sales expected. There are a few other games that had disastrous or horrible launches as well, and people are letting the companies know, it's not acceptable anymore.

While, my few bucks here and there, may not seem like a lot, I believe it is making a difference. After all, how come does it seam ESO is on sale on Steam every two weeks or at least once a month? 12 times a year ESO is on sale on Steam.

So my few bucks here and there, and someone else's few bucks here and there etc, etc is adding up.

Again, I am not quitting ESO at all. I just feel I need to air my 2 cents. (Dang it, we don't have pennies no more in Canada) Ok, so I am airing my nickle then.

I am tired of loot crates. I am tired of gambling in games. Yes I know companies are in the business of making money. Thing is, want to make money, make a great product. Want to make money by gambling in a game, then start up a casino and make money that way.

OK, I let off some steam now. I do feel better now. Now back to playing some ESO.

Cously · April 2019

BDO is a great game if you can put up with grief and grind. Grief because it's basically open PVP and can be very frustrating at times, and grind because from crafting to levelling it's the ultimate grinding. What made you so upset about Blades? My old phone couldn't run it so I didn't try yet.

casparian · April 2019

Whatever is wrong with Blades' monetization model, BDO has equal or similar problems. I can understand being fine with BDO's model, but not running to BDO because you don't like Blades' model.

Waffennacht · April 2019

The only thing I can think of that has OP upset is that blades has a timer for when you can open a chest for free.

You collect chests in game, they disappear and go into something like an inventory where you're allowed to open the chest per X amount of time - the amount of time depends on the chests rarity

*But you can open more by paying money

How any of this corresponds with ESO I'm not exactly sure (seeing as even if under the same umbrella really aren't the same company)

Then Anthem just blows because it actually was made in 18 months.

BDO looks cool, but is known for it's insane grind (repetitive I've heard)

Reistr_the_Unbroken · April 2019

Cously wrote: »

BDO is a great game if you can put up with grief and grind. Grief because it's basically open PVP and can be very frustrating at times, and grind because from crafting to levelling it's the ultimate grinding. What made you so upset about Blades? My old phone couldn't run it so I didn't try yet.

I pre ordered blades, and when I opened it I had to wait five whole minutes just to be told “your device doesn’t work” or something like that- even though on the App Store it said my phone was compatible

Davor · April 2019

Cously wrote: »

BDO is a great game if you can put up with grief and grind. Grief because it's basically open PVP and can be very frustrating at times, and grind because from crafting to levelling it's the ultimate grinding. What made you so upset about Blades? My old phone couldn't run it so I didn't try yet.

I read a review about it on my phone. Basically it was not a bad review until I read "you get more value for your money by buying a used copy of Skyrim, Red Dead Redemption or Witcher 3, and have more to do, more content and longer to play".

So I thought, OK, that is a bit extreme. So I go onto the Bethesda forums, and it seems it's true. One person claiming he can't get past level 18 without paying. Then comments saying that will not even help because ore and what not are so scarce that your weapons and armour will be crap because you can't repair them easily enough.

Then read another article about how a sword costs $10 for being around level 5, but then when around level 20 (or was it 40?) that you will basically need to buy another sword but this will cost $20 because these swords are really over powered.

So I was about to buy ESO crowns and that got me thinking. If I am going to buy something, I may as well buy another game and get more content and value out of my money since I am only going to get one item and not even use it a lot. I may as well get something where I get more value for that money.

AlnilamE · April 2019

OK, I'm not keeping an eye on Blades, so I have no idea what Bethesda has done to upset you.

But these two quotes caught my eye:

Davor wrote: »

So now I am considering instead of getting anything for ESO now, I am thinking of getting Black Desert Online now. I know that is a company worse than Zenimax and their store is horrible and make Zenimax look like a saint.

I am tired of loot crates. I am tired of gambling in games. Yes I know companies are in the business of making money. Thing is, want to make money, make a great product. Want to make money by gambling in a game, then start up a casino and make money that way.

OK, I let off some steam now. I do feel better now. Now back to playing some ESO.

First, BDO is a nice game, but it is completely designed around the cash shop. Every inconvenience you find in the game has a cash shop solution. It is very easy to rack up thousands of dollars without even getting close to the end game spenders.

Second, everything in BDO involves at least 3 layers of RNG, and the cash shop is not excluded from that. So if you think crown crates that only give you cosmetic items are outrageous, consider pet packs where there is one desirable pet (a polar bear with a specific buff) and a very high chance of instead getting a pair of birds or whatever. Not to mention pets (which loot for you) can be upgraded by merging them together, which is also RNG and those pets are also real money purchases.

I could write a long list of things in the cash shop that are small advantages on their own, but that will add up significantly if deployed well. It's a beautiful game with some very complex systems, but the gambling is imbued into everything in it. So if you are tired of gambling, look for something else.

Karivaa · April 2019

Cously wrote: »

BDO is a great game if you can put up with grief and grind. Grief because it's basically open PVP and can be very frustrating at times, and grind because from crafting to levelling it's the ultimate grinding. What made you so upset about Blades? My old phone couldn't run it so I didn't try yet.

I don’t think I could grind again.

Davor · April 2019

Waffennacht wrote: »

How any of this corresponds with ESO I'm not exactly sure (seeing as even if under the same umbrella really aren't the same company)

It applies to ESO because I was going to buy crowns and Blades showed me, why buy $20 in gems (what ever the currency is) and get so little just like how Zenimax is doing as well. 600 what ever for that mount they are asking for? It seems Bethesda Softworks is pushing this and I don't want to support them anymore.

ESO is part of Bethesda Softworks (the publisher, not the developers).

What I am hoping this to do would show that buying stuff from the crown store and asking the prices they do, we can get better bang for our buck. So I am hoping that Zenimax will give us better bang for our buck here.

Ilithyania · April 2019

BDO looks and plays really great.

Character creation is 10/10

Upgrading gear is 1/10. Black Spirit loves to mess up and destroy your gear.

The whole failstack to have a 100 % chance to improve gear becomes tedious

BossXV · April 2019

Man you would hate BDO, many Asian rpg's (btw I am Asian ) like maple story and BDO have horrible micro transactions, I have a friend who spent 10k and is still far from max level.

As far as blades pay to win, so is clash Royal, clash of clans, Candy crush , EVERY MOBILE GAME, the mobile market is a toxic market, not excusing Bethesda just to clarify

But I support the WAR on anti consumer practices, check out Yong yea on YouTube he covers many stories like this

BrightOblivion · April 2019

The chest model is bad, I'll admit. Mostly due to the fact that it jumps from 5 seconds for the first tier to 3 hours for the second. It just feels bad, and like I'm spending more time waiting than playing (Welcome to mobile, I guess).

What truly sours me on the game, however is the fact that they actually sell weapons (which seem to be a fair bit stronger than what you can make) for gems in their cash shop, in a game touting the eventual availability of a PvP arena.

That said, the only thing Blades and ESO have in common (at least for now) is that they're set in the same world (at different time periods) and owned by the same parent company.

kmcaj · April 2019

Didn't read your post but go with BDO, whatever that is.

Jayman1000 · April 2019

What has this to do with ESO? This is about games Blade and BDO, right? Where does ESO come into this?

Artim_X · April 2019

ZOS has nothing to do with Blades so the paywall aspect of that game shouldn't affect how you feel about ESO. The crown store generates a lot of money for ZOS so they can afford to have the game itself on sale quite often. I don't particularly like crown crates, but I'm glad that I can buy whatever I want straight off with gems. It pays to save.

I've played BDO... Very cool character creator, but the grindy nature of that game is such a huge turnoff for me. To each their own I suppose.

Davor · April 2019

AlnilamE wrote: »

OK, I'm not keeping an eye on Blades, so I have no idea what Bethesda has done to upset you.

But these two quotes caught my eye:

Davor wrote: »

So now I am considering instead of getting anything for ESO now, I am thinking of getting Black Desert Online now. I know that is a company worse than Zenimax and their store is horrible and make Zenimax look like a saint.

I am tired of loot crates. I am tired of gambling in games. Yes I know companies are in the business of making money. Thing is, want to make money, make a great product. Want to make money by gambling in a game, then start up a casino and make money that way.

OK, I let off some steam now. I do feel better now. Now back to playing some ESO.

First, BDO is a nice game, but it is completely designed around the cash shop. Every inconvenience you find in the game has a cash shop solution. It is very easy to rack up thousands of dollars without even getting close to the end game spenders.

Second, everything in BDO involves at least 3 layers of RNG, and the cash shop is not excluded from that. So if you think crown crates that only give you cosmetic items are outrageous, consider pet packs where there is one desirable pet (a polar bear with a specific buff) and a very high chance of instead getting a pair of birds or whatever. Not to mention pets (which loot for you) can be upgraded by merging them together, which is also RNG and those pets are also real money purchases.

I could write a long list of things in the cash shop that are small advantages on their own, but that will add up significantly if deployed well. It's a beautiful game with some very complex systems, but the gambling is imbued into everything in it. So if you are tired of gambling, look for something else.

Thank you so much for this. One of the reasons I never got it on PC. Now it's on Xbox I can use a controller now. I guess basically what I should have said, is "my money that was going to go to Zenimax is now going to a competitor, and how does Zenimax like that?".

Again, nobody can say that is a drop in the ocean because Fallout 76, and even early release of ESO shows us that We are the ocean now, and Zenimax and companies can't take us for granted anymore. Twenty bucks here and there from me, and millions of others is having a huge effect on Bethesda Softworks now.

Thing is, if I get hooked on Black Desert Online, that means no ESO playing for me anymore. I doubt it very much that will happpen, but I am sure that can happen to some of the other million or so people.

Again, just letting out steam and hoping some good comes out of it. If not, at least I tried.

Davor · April 2019

BrightOblivion wrote: »

The chest model is bad, I'll admit. Mostly due to the fact that it jumps from 5 seconds for the first tier to 3 hours for the second. It just feels bad, and like I'm spending more time waiting than playing (Welcome to mobile, I guess).

What truly sours me on the game, however is the fact that they actually sell weapons (which seem to be a fair bit stronger than what you can make) for gems in their cash shop, in a game touting the eventual availability of a PvP arena.

That said, the only thing Blades and ESO have in common (at least for now) is that they're set in the same world (at different time periods) and owned by the same parent company.

I know I mentioned it, but I just want to stress, that my money was about to go to Zenimax, but seeing what I wanted to get, I am getting better value else where.

I don't know, seeing the 600 crown jewels for a mount that I don't even want, and then seeing something so frivilous that only costs a few bucks, my brain is now telling me, I am getting more value and bang for the buck.

It's like saying "our game is worthless, so we will sell our game that took many thousands of hours, time, energy, people to make, but buy this where only a few people made it and took so much less time to make."

Davor · April 2019

Jayman1000 wrote: »

What has this to do with ESO? This is about games Blade and BDO, right? Where does ESO come into this?

It's about Zenimax crown store. All Blades did was remind me I can get better value for my money that what Zenimax is asking for. This has nothing to do with Blades. I just never explained myself properly when I was writing because as I said, I was just letting off steam and needed to vent.

Jayman1000 · April 2019

Davor wrote: »

Jayman1000 wrote: »

What has this to do with ESO? This is about games Blade and BDO, right? Where does ESO come into this?

It's about Zenimax crown store. All Blades did was remind me I can get better value for my money that what Zenimax is asking for. This has nothing to do with Blades.

funny the quote is including some text that isn't visible in your post..? Does it not have anything to do with blades?

Wing · April 2019

as someone who did play BDO extensively

it is a GORGEOUS . . . skinners box.

your looking at spending at least $50-$100 base to be able to play the game at a competent level.

leveling is very fast at first but that's really because the game does not really start until 56 and then is a total grind after.

story (lol its a Korean skinner mmo there isn't one)

open world pvp with no ability to opt out.

a both hollow and deep skill / ability system, its more akin to mortal combat then a traditional mmo, as various keys / buttons do a single action that can be combo'd into other actions. you can get by spamming one skill till 56 then your going to get rekt be people that know their class and combo's and I frames like the back of their hand with no chance of fighting back.
and at 56 you get your "awakened weapons" that I find to be the antitheses of good RPG progression. 1-56 you level slowly unlocking skills and learning how your class plays (you may jump around before you find one you like) and once you get a hang of it at 56 your given this whole list of OP abilities that may or may not play like the class you had just been leveling and you need to "switch" into this mode constantly and using "old" class skills will pull you out of it.

(as awakened weapons will overwrite some of your buttons with different skills but not ALL of them, meaning if you press and old skill you drop back into normal class and have to re "switch" into awakened)

the whole awakened system is dumb and unintuitive

actually not as many players as it seems. the majority of people you see around are bots or offline grinding, be that fishing, setting themselves to walk between towns to level skills, or so forth.

TLDR: its about fashion, there is a reason all the adverts are about looks and character creation, and be prepared to pay an arm and a leg for cosmetics.

its like a free to play browser grind game at its core. but hey, its very pretty.

alternatively I would recommend FF14 if you can get past having to read everything and you can put up with buying the game and game time constantly. or GW2 is a lot of fun, free, and does have a great open world exploration system and plays *similar* to ESO if a bit less forgiving, but if you find ESO to easy then hey, you might like this (though they are owned by EA at the end of the day, and most likely shifting into maintenance mode

KhajiitFelix · April 2019

DBO

Myrkgrav · April 2019

Unless things have changed in the last couple of years, I played BDO as soon as it launched in the US and it was a grindfest and a half, like any other ported MMO. It's fun, sure, but if you think you're going to go there and not have the same problems (likely more) than you do here, you are sorely mistaken.

Myrkgrav · April 2019

Oh, and if you think the store in ESO is bad, wait til you see the store over there.

I sunk easily hundreds into cosmetics.

theyancey · April 2019

I suggest quitting both and going with Fallout 76

Wing · April 2019

theyancey wrote: »

I suggest quitting both and going with Fallout 76

tbh I actually love fallout 76, if you liked the:
-explore
-loot
-head home and stash it
-repeat

loop of skyrim and fallout 4 then you will LOVE 76, i also got heavy RPG vibes from it with the builds that i have not gotten from a game in a while, the fact that your limited on special points and options really brings back classic rpg vibes for me.

DBZVelena · April 2019

Blades is fun, but has a thing where something either costs time or green gems. you can choose which to use. but so far the only thing that i've seen that demands gems is in their in game shop (duh, app needs to be monetised) or if you wish the change your toons appearance.

its really: choose one: time or money.

Zhoyzu · April 2019

Waffennacht wrote: »

The only thing I can think of that has OP upset is that blades has a timer for when you can open a chest for free.

You collect chests in game, they disappear and go into something like an inventory where you're allowed to open the chest per X amount of time - the amount of time depends on the chests rarity

*But you can open more by paying money

How any of this corresponds with ESO I'm not exactly sure (seeing as even if under the same umbrella really aren't the same company)

Then Anthem just blows because it actually was made in 18 months.

BDO looks cool, but is known for it's insane grind (repetitive I've heard)

or anthem was just another warframe clone and warframe is free so

Digiman · April 2019

I won't even play the game so Zenimax gets nothing... its the same with ZoS there are periods where I unsub, I only buy a monthly membership so its not like Zenimax gets a lot of my money.

I can't understand why a gaming company would charge so much money for digital currency and items, its sheer greed and they need to know this turns people off...

IF they actually wanted to make more money they should do more sales often.

Davor · April 2019

Jayman1000 wrote: »

Davor wrote: »

Jayman1000 wrote: »

What has this to do with ESO? This is about games Blade and BDO, right? Where does ESO come into this?

It's about Zenimax crown store. All Blades did was remind me I can get better value for my money that what Zenimax is asking for. This has nothing to do with Blades.

funny the quote is including some text that isn't visible in your post..? Does it not have anything to do with blades?

Something went over my head lol. My post has nothing to do with Blades at all. It just reminded me of how I would pay $20 or what ever for one item in the ESO crown store. I am having a bad day today with my depression, and just seeing what Bethesda Softworks is asking for Blades reminded me that ESO is doing the same thing, which ironically I accepted since Zenimax does mostly good.

Thing is, I am sick and tired of all the Not So Microtransactions that Bethesda Softworks is doing. I was about to buy some stuff in the ESO crown store, and now I will not because I do not want to keep supporting this kind of business that Bethesda Softworks/Zenimax choose to do.

I kept supporting Zenimax Online because I really appreciate the hard work they do, but I just don't want to support their bosses anymore. So I am letting Bethesda Softworks know that even my piddilence of money is going to their competitor. I may or may not like the game. Thing is, 1) They are not getting my money, and 2) now I am playing another game and not theirs. So if I am not playing their game how are they ever going to get more money from me?

I know I am not alone in this. After all, as I said over eight million in sales Bethesda Softworks didn't get with Fallout 76. Same for other companies. So while I use to be a drop in the ocean, WE ARE THE OCEAN now and it does make a difference.

What is Bethesda Softworks going to say? "Don't like it, don't buy our game?" Ask EA how that went. Heck as Todd how that went for Fallout 76. Zenimax/Bethesda Softworks know they screwed up with ESO. I just see the same thing happening again. While Zenimax Online is doing really good stuff in my opinion, sadly it's their publisher Bethesda Softworks who are setting the prices and telling companies how to do things is turning people away again.

I am at my point where I am starting to look else where now (he he) where I would have never done so before. No my money just went to another company today. What or how will Zenimax make sure our money goes to them instead of other companies?

Again, I am, we are no longer a drop in the ocean. Every cent that goes to another company is not going to Zenimax or Bethesda Softworks now.

srfrogg23 · April 2019

I'm just annoyed that I have yet to be able to play Blades. I downloaded it, but it won't let me in to play 🤨

ManwithBeard9 · April 2019

BDO is all about its own cash shop and pay to win items in it. It is worse than ESO as it is now. And likely worse than whatever Blades has at the moment.