Maintenance for the week of April 6:
• PC/Mac: No maintenance – April 6
• PC/Mac: No maintenance – April 6
Not a tank or healer? No pledges for you!
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Linaleah✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭honestly, I don't even mind when dps is low (in groups i play almost exclusively healers) i DO mind where it seems like i'm expected to compensate for ignored mechanics and blamed when I don't heal through things you REALLY should have moved out of. why am I the one interrupting 80% of the time, even though dps and tank are in melee range of a target that needs an interrupt?
I'm not good enough player to compensate for anyone, best case scenario, I carry my own weight... barely. I tend not to queue up as a dps, because i'm that "fake" dps you all are complaining about (you know.. low one, because ...sigh... weaving crap this game insist on pushing is not something I can do). but its not like I can suddenly weave on my healers either. I can buff. I can heal. I can interrupt, when possible. but I can NOT compensate for people who treat dungeons as their own personal parsers and ignore mechanics all together. i certainly cannot compensate for dps like me, but that also ignores mechanics, not in vets anyways. and when it comes to DLC - not in normals either.
support roles avoid group finder not only because of skill gap. but also because unless they themselves are the sources of toxicity, its just far too unpleasant for a support role in a random pug. can ZoS fix it? no. no they cannot. no matter what they do - they cannot fix jerks.dirty worthless casual.
Lois McMaster Bujold "A Civil Campaign"Reputation is what other people know about you. Honor is what you know about yourself. Guard your honor. Let your reputation fall where it will. And outlive the ***5 -
Alucardo✭✭✭✭✭
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What about PvPers who don't actually have characters based on designated roles? We generally build for a balance of survivability, sustain and damage. This is why picking DD is a safer choice - that way we don't have to spend 17k gold to respec, do our pledges, then spend another 17k to respec back so we can PvP, and do this every day. It's a little expensive.kathandira wrote: »kathandira wrote: »It's quite common in any MMO to get insta queued for dungeons if you're a tank or healer, and have a bit of a wait if you're damage. However, in ESO this problem is even worse. As a DD you can spend up to 30 minutes in a queue, and if it's mid afternoon you can just forget it. I gave up yesterday, specced for tank and got a hit in 6 seconds.
This is a huge issue, because the dungeon finder is filled with 17k health damage dealers pretending to be tanks just to get their pledges done, but they are usually kicked for not holding agro, not pulling in ranged trash mobs, getting one shot, or using dawnbreakers when war horns were expected.
So in reality there are 2 problems: Occasionally getting a terrible tank, or not getting your pledges done because you can't find a group as a DD.
But what can be done to rectify this? Why is it so hard to queue as DD? The answer to the second question is quite simple really. The rewards are jank, and as you've seen these dungeons hundreds of times you don't want to run them, especially as a boring tank.
My suggestion would be to add better rewards for running pledge dungeons, even after you've already completed it once. It could be something like a few transmute crystals at the end (for veteran only), but obviously cap it after a certain amount so they can't just farm all day long. But this may help people queue more than once, and make finding people for pledges much easier.
If you have any ideas, let us know!
Be part of the solution. Make a Tank or Healer, and run your dailies on those.
Not enough people play these rolls, and we often see DPS asking for a fix. But the only fix really is for those DPS players to help by putting more tank and healers into the queue. Take one for the community and do your part.
Signed,
Player with multiple of each roll
Its not "taking one for the community". Tanking and healing is awesome and a lot more fun and requires more brainwork than just putting ona specific set and following a certain rotation.
But those who insist on having 8x DPS characters should consider creating a Tank and/or Healer (And actually learning to play the role well).
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kathandira✭✭✭✭✭
✭What about PvPers who don't actually have characters based on designated roles? We generally build for a balance of survivability, sustain and damage. This is why picking DD is a safer choice - that way we don't have to spend 17k gold to respec, do our pledges, then spend another 17k to respec back so we can PvP, and do this every day. It's a little expensive.
Reread what you said, and decided to edit this.
I think it would be better for me to ask, as a PvPer, what do you look for when running Pledges? Helms, Gear Sets, Undaunted Rep?Edited by kathandira on April 2, 2019 2:53PMPS4-NA. Breton Templar Healer, Bosmer Stamplar, Breton Magplar, Orsimer StamDK, Dunmer MagDK, Khajiit StamNB, Dunmer MagNB, Argonian Warden Tank, Altmer Magsorc0 -
LeagueTroll✭✭✭✭✭Because there is a double standard that plagues the community, fake tank and fake healers are kicked all the time. Yet fake dd when you kick them it’s ‘elitist’. The correct to speed up dd que is encourage ppl to kick bad ones so others can get in as replacements.2
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psychotic13✭✭✭✭✭
✭Ive been trying to get undaunted up on a healer, i still cant get a group majority of the time and end up giving up cause after 15mins of standing there doing nothing, youre like 'what am i doing'0 -
exeeter702✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Most entry level players to the genre (not entry level eso players) simply find tanking and healing unappealing roles.
Why do that when you can push big damage. Dps is simply a universally more appealing role that many end up focusing on. Its only after experience in the genre that a subset of players begin to realize and appreciate the healer and tank role. I was the exact same way when i was a teenager playing ff11. Friend of mine now who is in his early 30s had never played an mmo before eso, and when I explained you can heal groups he looked perplexed and asked me "why the hell would i want to do that, i want to kill ***" fast forward to today many years later and he swears by his templar healer.
Its just a mindset, the majority of people find dealing damage and killing enemies a more entertaining endeavor regardless of the mmo in question. Dps queues will ALWAYS be longer no matter the systems in place. Wow in all its population, has dungeon group format set to 3 dps, 1 healer 1 tank as well as tank and healer bonus rewards for queuing as a less popular role and dps queues are still long. Ff14 grants the ability to switch to any job on the fly as well as implementing a bonus for queuing a tank or healer and the same is true for dps queues.Edited by exeeter702 on April 2, 2019 5:44PM1 -
dazee✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭If you dont have at least 17k health as any role you're doing it wrong. Vet dungeons will simply one shot you with almost anything at lower health than that. my damage characters normally have 18-20k HP as do my healers. its only logical.Playing your character the way your character should play is all that matters. Play as well as you can but never betray the character. Doing so would make playing an mmoRPG pointless.1 -
dazee✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭HappyLittleTree wrote: »especially as a boring tank
yeah right just because you can't tank doesn't mean tanking is boring...why don't you run a tank then?
don't complain that dds have to queue longer. make a change.
People find tanking boring becuase tanks are boring to solo with and the solo experience of a class is extremely important to its appeal.Playing your character the way your character should play is all that matters. Play as well as you can but never betray the character. Doing so would make playing an mmoRPG pointless.1 -
zvavi✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭the answer is obvious, you dont need a tank for them. so those who can (and there are many of those) just ask in zone chat for a 4 dd 4 keys quick run.will remove number of dds queuing for dungeons, and will make the world better! (and honestly, i am tired of tanking vFV cause queue to it is so much shorter as a tank)0 -
Heelie✭✭✭✭✭The majoity of healers and tanks don't trust the dps players in the que, they know a couple of players whom they trust to do decent dps, so they don't need the group finder. When the vast majority of players a dd's there will be a bottle neck in the group finder that is just how it's. If you would like to que faster as a dd you have the social options such as guilds and even zone chat. If the dd's whom are stuck 20 mins at a time in the group finder would use that time on a dummy they might have an easier time finding premade groups.Most OwOrated healer of all time3 -
rotaugen454✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭If the pledge is on normal and not one of a handful with mechanics requiring two players, I just solo with my DPS main. Or que as one of my three tanks or three healers. I only wait with my DPS characters if I am doing Vet, or I ask for others in guild chat."Get off my lawn!"0 -
EngineeringElf✭✭✭It's frustrating to tank for a PUG with low dps, that's why tanks avoid it. It's also really easy to find a group with at least decent dps using zone chats and other sources.
The better a tank becomes in his role, the less likely he's gonna use the group-finder, becuse getting more offers from better groups that's more reliable in terms of finishing a pledge.
They would have to reward tanks specifically for using the group-finder, otherwise they'll keep joining groups outside of it. But doing that means fake-tanks gets rewarded for being shady, so dunno.
In addition to that, there's obviously not enough people playing tank, becuse it's bothersome doing it on your main character. You have to change a lot of things all the damn time, when switching between solo, PvP and PvE tanking. I'd gladly tank on all my characters, if the game had dual specs, so I didn't have to change CP, attributes, morphs etc.
This is one the things I loved about DCUO. They have armories which makes switching between dps and support roles almost seamless.0 -
LeagueTroll✭✭✭✭✭The majoity of healers and tanks don't trust the dps players in the que, they know a couple of players whom they trust to do decent dps, so they don't need the group finder. When the vast majority of players a dd's there will be a bottle neck in the group finder that is just how it's. If you would like to que faster as a dd you have the social options such as guilds and even zone chat. If the dd's whom are stuck 20 mins at a time in the group finder would use that time on a dummy they might have an easier time finding premade groups.
That will only make pug quality even lower. This is ‘u use que because u r bad’. Then que will have even less decent players. The correct approach is the opposite.
Zos need to encourage the good ones to use que, and The encourage kicking the bad ones. The sub 10k dps ‘dmg dealers’ should not get carried for free. Their choices should be either 1.git gud 2.give up 3.switch to support 4.pay for carry.
Also zos need to add an extra key on pledge for completing within time limit to give more incentives on kicking low dps ppl. And obv the time limit should be achievable as long as group dps is above 50k and group has no wipe.0 -
Aznarb✭✭✭✭✭
✭No need to blame ZoS for player action.
their is way to much DPS in this game, so ofc Q-time is gonna be very long.
When I was DD, I've always Q with friend and/or guildmate and got no problem.
It's a MMO, so people should learn to play with other instead of solo every time.[ PC EU ]
[ Khuram-dar ]
[ Khajiit ]
[ Templar - Healer ]
[Crazy Gatherer & Compulsive Thief]0 -
Jamdarius✭✭✭✭✭It's quite common in any MMO to get insta queued for dungeons if you're a tank or healer, and have a bit of a wait if you're damage. However, in ESO this problem is even worse. As a DD you can spend up to 30 minutes in a queue, and if it's mid afternoon you can just forget it. I gave up yesterday, specced for tank and got a hit in 6 seconds.
This is a huge issue, because the dungeon finder is filled with 17k health damage dealers pretending to be tanks just to get their pledges done, but they are usually kicked for not holding agro, not pulling in ranged trash mobs, getting one shot, or using dawnbreakers when war horns were expected.
So in reality there are 2 problems: Occasionally getting a terrible tank, or not getting your pledges done because you can't find a group as a DD.
But what can be done to rectify this? Why is it so hard to queue as DD? The answer to the second question is quite simple really. The rewards are jank, and as you've seen these dungeons hundreds of times you don't want to run them, especially as a boring tank.
My suggestion would be to add better rewards for running pledge dungeons, even after you've already completed it once. It could be something like a few transmute crystals at the end (for veteran only), but obviously cap it after a certain amount so they can't just farm all day long. But this may help people queue more than once, and make finding people for pledges much easier.
If you have any ideas, let us know!
Just go do normal pledge solo it is more fun than vet, most are easy enough to do solo anyways, also pretend tank in normal runs non dlc is perfectly normal way in my eyes as the bosses just get burned like in few seconds...
PS: My templar friend went even further ahead... he started doing Vets solo LOL.0 -
Noctus✭✭✭✭✭It's quite common in any MMO to get insta queued for dungeons if you're a tank or healer, and have a bit of a wait if you're damage. However, in ESO this problem is even worse. As a DD you can spend up to 30 minutes in a queue, and if it's mid afternoon you can just forget it. I gave up yesterday, specced for tank and got a hit in 6 seconds.
This is a huge issue, because the dungeon finder is filled with 17k health damage dealers pretending to be tanks just to get their pledges done, but they are usually kicked for not holding agro, not pulling in ranged trash mobs, getting one shot, or using dawnbreakers when war horns were expected.
So in reality there are 2 problems: Occasionally getting a terrible tank, or not getting your pledges done because you can't find a group as a DD.
But what can be done to rectify this? Why is it so hard to queue as DD? The answer to the second question is quite simple really. The rewards are jank, and as you've seen these dungeons hundreds of times you don't want to run them, especially as a boring tank.
My suggestion would be to add better rewards for running pledge dungeons, even after you've already completed it once. It could be something like a few transmute crystals at the end (for veteran only), but obviously cap it after a certain amount so they can't just farm all day long. But this may help people queue more than once, and make finding people for pledges much easier.
If you have any ideas, let us know!
u know what would be rly sick coincidence ? if ur the tank that got kicked from vet march of sacrifices dungeon which place i took today. the timing would fit so well with the forum post
if u are PC EU i can be ur tank for the pledges just make sure u hit +30 k atleast.
i allways do pledges with pugs never rly had problems with it too....0 -
Noctus✭✭✭✭✭EngineeringElf wrote: »It's frustrating to tank for a PUG with low dps, that's why tanks avoid it. It's also really easy to find a group with at least decent dps using zone chats and other sources.
The better a tank becomes in his role, the less likely he's gonna use the group-finder, becuse getting more offers from better groups that's more reliable in terms of finishing a pledge.
They would have to reward tanks specifically for using the group-finder, otherwise they'll keep joining groups outside of it. But doing that means fake-tanks gets rewarded for being shady, so dunno.
In addition to that, there's obviously not enough people playing tank, becuse it's bothersome doing it on your main character. You have to change a lot of things all the damn time, when switching between solo, PvP and PvE tanking. I'd gladly tank on all my characters, if the game had dual specs, so I didn't have to change CP, attributes, morphs etc.
This is one the things I loved about DCUO. They have armories which makes switching between dps and support roles almost seamless.
on dcuo we didnt have skillmorphs tho. also we didnt even have taunting. ur domination number had to be high to aggro the boss. so u aggroed everything automatically what u attacked. u cant implement that system here its way different. i would like them to add tho the blockbreak and block mechanics of pvp.0 -
Alucardo✭✭✭✭✭
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Haha, nah wasn't me. Don't think I've ever been into that one at all actuallyIt's quite common in any MMO to get insta queued for dungeons if you're a tank or healer, and have a bit of a wait if you're damage. However, in ESO this problem is even worse. As a DD you can spend up to 30 minutes in a queue, and if it's mid afternoon you can just forget it. I gave up yesterday, specced for tank and got a hit in 6 seconds.
This is a huge issue, because the dungeon finder is filled with 17k health damage dealers pretending to be tanks just to get their pledges done, but they are usually kicked for not holding agro, not pulling in ranged trash mobs, getting one shot, or using dawnbreakers when war horns were expected.
So in reality there are 2 problems: Occasionally getting a terrible tank, or not getting your pledges done because you can't find a group as a DD.
But what can be done to rectify this? Why is it so hard to queue as DD? The answer to the second question is quite simple really. The rewards are jank, and as you've seen these dungeons hundreds of times you don't want to run them, especially as a boring tank.
My suggestion would be to add better rewards for running pledge dungeons, even after you've already completed it once. It could be something like a few transmute crystals at the end (for veteran only), but obviously cap it after a certain amount so they can't just farm all day long. But this may help people queue more than once, and make finding people for pledges much easier.
If you have any ideas, let us know!
u know what would be rly sick coincidence ? if ur the tank that got kicked from vet march of sacrifices dungeon which place i took today. the timing would fit so well with the forum post
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Revelzdevelz✭✭✭I run a tank for dailies if I wanna get them done fast and have to que. If im with friends then I dps.0
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Starlock✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭The only suggestion I have is that players need to be careful about projecting their expectations onto other players. While I understand the frustrations, expecting others conform to our way of playing the game only makes for more frustrations. Not just for us during those moments other players inevitably fail to meet our expectations, but for others who are enjoying the game and getting told they are "supposed to" play it differently.2 -
grkkll✭✭✭✭I respecced my DK DD to a hybrid tank. I'd built it to CP160 as a DD anyway so it was pretty quick. I have crowd control & both taunts on back bar with S&B and Two Handed on the front. Yes I get straight in for pledges and at first I made it plain I was a hybrid and invited a kick if I failed to tank....never happened. The only problem is I'm running pirate medium armour for the extra Stam with DCT drink, but only because I haven't been able to get BP weps. I wouldn't try this in a vet until I get heavy armour but I've run Scalecaller & Mazz without any complaints. I have a proper tank should I want to do vets but having too much fun atm0
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kathandira✭✭✭✭✭
✭I respecced my DK DD to a hybrid tank. I'd built it to CP160 as a DD anyway so it was pretty quick. I have crowd control & both taunts on back bar with S&B and Two Handed on the front. Yes I get straight in for pledges and at first I made it plain I was a hybrid and invited a kick if I failed to tank....never happened. The only problem is I'm running pirate medium armour for the extra Stam with DCT drink, but only because I haven't been able to get BP weps. I wouldn't try this in a vet until I get heavy armour but I've run Scalecaller & Mazz without any complaints. I have a proper tank should I want to do vets but having too much fun atm
I've thought about putting Hundings weapons and jewelry and Fortified Brass Heavy Armor on my tank, rocking a DPS back bar with Inner Fire, and sword and board with puncture on my front bar. A taunt on both bars, and enough to at least contribute to DPS on the back bar.PS4-NA. Breton Templar Healer, Bosmer Stamplar, Breton Magplar, Orsimer StamDK, Dunmer MagDK, Khajiit StamNB, Dunmer MagNB, Argonian Warden Tank, Altmer Magsorc0 -
kargen27✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Maybe they should offer a choice when you queue. You can choose traditional group or a group that pays no attention to role. When four players choose a group with no attention to role they get placed together and off they go. Good chance it will be four DPS so you might have to slot an extra self heal or shield but it would beat waiting around for half the night.
You could still be placed in a traditional group even if you choose the other option so long as your role fit with what the group needs. This wouldn't slow down the queue any for those wanting a traditional group and would make things much faster for those that do not care.and then the parrot said, "must be the water mines green too."0 -
Zhoyzu✭✭✭✭✭Me and my friend have 1 DD each and 1 Tank each, we group and rotate our roles each day so we can get in super quick. I never bother queuing as a solo DD as the wait is far too long.
An idea that may solve the problem would be to only receive Tank set rewards if your a Tank, Healing Sets if you are a Healer and DPS sets if you are a DD, other than that, i don't know.
uhm that wont work either because i only play healer tank roles for PvE and some sets are dps oriented that i like using in PvP so all that does is cause additional problems.
Imagine a bunch of DPS queued people running pvp builds for pve, its just not very effective.Zhoyzu - Nightblade Alchemist (v15) RETIRED
Has-No-Heart - Templar Enchanter (v4) FUBAR
Ambadassador - Dragon knight (v1) Naked with no future (returned from the naked realm to tank PvE)
Sakis Tolis - Sorceror (v10 in progress) Living Legend!
Xuhl'Xotuun - Warden Current Main as im starting the game over essentially with this character aside from crafting.
Creator of Khajiit fall dmg reduction racial passive concept.0 -
FrancisCrawford✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭This is all a bigger deal for tanks than healers, because speccing for healer vs. ranged magicka is pretty similar. Morph-choice conflicts hardly matter (do you really mind if your healer uses the Blazing Spear morph?). A healer's healing job is basically to cast a few skills and be alert for emergencies, so you meet your healing obligations while also casting the best part of your DPS rotation. Yes, in a weak group I may do more direct DPS and less DPS support than in a strong one, but so what?0 -
Eldar_Ftw✭✭As a MMO vet and have played over 19 MMORPG's in my time, people don't like playing healers or tanks cause they are boring and outside of pve they are even more boring or have no niches (except maybe healers).
The "trinity" system in MMOs needs to go away, asap. When 90% of the MMO player base plays dps why in the hell would you make a system that only 10% of the player base plays in two roles?. It's an old system that doesn't work in today's MMORPGs, it's like trying to bring back pagers in an age of cell phones.
I honesty don't mind playing a healer or a tank but my first love is always dps. I'd love to switch my Warden from dps to healer w/e I feel like it but the cost of respecing in ESO is **** stupid and currently the minimum 12k respec can get costly very fast, specially if you do pvp and pve.
"Just make an alt thats a healer or tank", did that and they will get maxed out before your dps character which sucks trying to finish the undaunted/FG grind on your dps compared to tank/healer.
The only way to fix this stupid queue system in ESO is
1. Drop tanking and healing (aka the trinity system) and use the GW2 system
2. Put in a dual spec system1 -
FrancisCrawford✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭As a MMO vet and have played over 19 MMORPG's in my time, people don't like playing healers or tanks cause they are boring and outside of pve they are even more boring or have no niches (except maybe healers).
The "trinity" system in MMOs needs to go away, asap. When 90% of the MMO player base plays dps why in the hell would you make a system that only 10% of the player base plays in two roles?. It's an old system that doesn't work in today's MMORPGs, it's like trying to bring back pagers in an age of cell phones.
I honesty don't mind playing a healer or a tank but my first love is always dps. I'd love to switch my Warden from dps to healer w/e I feel like it but the cost of respecing in ESO is **** stupid and currently the minimum 12k respec can get costly very fast, specially if you do pvp and pve.
"Just make an alt thats a healer or tank", did that and they will get maxed out before your dps character which sucks trying to finish the undaunted/FG grind on your dps compared to tank/healer.
The only way to fix this stupid queue system in ESO is
1. Drop tanking and healing (aka the trinity system) and use the GW2 system
2. Put in a dual spec system
What respeccing do you need to do to switch a warden between DPS and healer? Or are you doing stamina DPS, in which case the answer is obvious?
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Digiman✭✭✭✭✭DCUO sorta solved their role situation by compensating players with buffs to fill roles missing in groups.
If you didn't have a tank you would get a damage reduction buff, if you didn't have a healer you would be able to regenerate your health when it went below a certain percentage and if you lack DPS you would get a DPS buff...
Don't know how that would translate to veteran but it did fix it for those who didn't want to queue up as tanks or healers.
I guess if they don't want to pug then the system would have to compensate for that loss. Really though could care less about DPS as a healer if we got the dungeon done. Rushing through it with a pug is just unfeasible.0
