Jhalin wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

BLAINE1245 wrote: »

I know these are "rumored" and are still in the works and debate prior to going live. I created a forum account due to Wrathstone going live after having played this game for well over a year. I play one and only one character. A Khajiit Stamina Nightblade. This combination has been hindered (nerfed) via countless updates. The most concerning prior to now being the Wrathstone update which entirely eliminated bonus damage from stealth (the major perk of being Khajiit when other races have much better recovery and resources) as well as converting our 8% critical chance to a 10% critical damage bonus. Critical damage yields zero gain without a high chance of critical hits. Now the nightblade also loses Snipe (I know there's regular complaints but it's certainly on par with Take Flight and Endless Fury). There's also the whirlwind skill which is proposed to lose it's execute as well as grim focus losing the 8% bonus to all damage. I've played this game and only this game with this single character for all of my 50+ plus days played. These proposed changes will truly ruin my experience and destroy the way I enjoy playing my character daily.

Ok there is lot of misinformation here. First khajiit actually dod not lost stealth damage passive. He still have it hidden as 10% critical dmg bonus. Keep in mind that attacks from stealth have 100% crit chance sop that previous 8% crit chance was basically not affecting attacks from stealth at all when current 10% crit dmg does so when it comes to attack from stealth kahjit did not lost additional damage to it completly.

Second misconception is fact that You need insanely high crit chance for that 10% crit dmg bonus to be usefull. This is also not entirely true because it depends not only from crit chance but also from base crit ratio and compared to 8% crit chance that 10% crit damage even on builds with low crit and low crit damage works pretty similarly to 8% crit chance with the damage difference being under 1%. Damage difference is barely noticable. If You dont belive me You can check one of the threads about that subject where many people made comparisions of how certain base crit chances are affected by khajit change.

Nighblabe is not "loosing snipe" lol. Snipe is not nightblade exclusive ability so it's silly to say certain class may loose it. Snipe is just getting slighttly lowered dmg and cast time to avoid desynching few snipes at once but it'll be still most propably very effective tool. fact that snipe will now get minor defile instead of major may actually make stamblades in PvP even stronger with that ability because now they'll have source of major and minor defile being able to almost completly stop someone from healing.

Steel tornado is also not stamblade exclusive ability and as it is it's simply too effective. Fact that it's fun for You to use it doesnt mean it's fun for other people that You can be very effective by mashing brainlesly 1 button wheter those people will be enemies in PvP or allies in PvE it may be concering for them to see that 1 ability can yield so much power when their kits not always allow for similar things.

As for minor berserk well it's hard not to notice that nightblades had it coming. When 1 class shines in both PvE and PvP for too long it's kinda obvious sooner or later nerfs will come. We''l see how things will go with that minor berser change and with other changes. it's still fresh info and we''l be able to see bigger picture when Elsweyr hits PTS.

Stamden and stamDK and stamDen all parse within 1k of stamblade, with more utility in groups.

Magplar parses the same as magblade with more utility, magSorc slightly lower with more utility.

They aren’t overperforming, they aren’t OP. People are just stuck on this inane myth. NBs have zero group utility as a damage dealer, and so much less than any other class in any other role. You’d never use a NB healer in a score run, you’d never run a NB tank, they don’t offer ANYTHING another class can’t do better.

They didn’t need any nerfs. If anything they need buffs to their group utility, because as a class they have none right now.

Onefrkncrzypope wrote: »

FlyingSwan wrote: »

MaxJrFTW wrote: »

BLAINE1245 wrote: »

MaxJrFTW wrote: »

A pungent smell permeates this thread, i believe this is the smell...of zerg.

Well howdy there feller, i just want to let you know that we don't take kindly to your types 'round here!

Zerg has no bearing on anything aforementioned. I don't play Cyrodiil except to earn my 50 transmute crystals. My play is almost entirely PVE (trials, dungeons etc.) with battlegrounds being a smaller portion.

Then you should know that nightblades have been top dps since the game was released, and they're trying to finally balance the class to make it even with the rest. Have some shame, and don't complain about a balance change when you've been top dps by a considerable margin since the release of the game.

No. I have mained an NB since day one and it was the most broken class for over a year after release. It's only since a bunch of blanket nerfs in Morrowind - which the NB did seem to largely dodge - that the class has become viable.

Playing an NB has been largely a labour of love for most of the game's lifecycle. If it's nerfed so be it, it's only a game, but let's not pretend this class was always great, because was born as the runt of the litter.

They were way behind for a long time. Then they just popped up lol Morrowind was a strange patch.

BLAINE1245 wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

Onefrkncrzypope wrote: »

FlyingSwan wrote: »

MaxJrFTW wrote: »

BLAINE1245 wrote: »

MaxJrFTW wrote: »

A pungent smell permeates this thread, i believe this is the smell...of zerg.

Well howdy there feller, i just want to let you know that we don't take kindly to your types 'round here!

Zerg has no bearing on anything aforementioned. I don't play Cyrodiil except to earn my 50 transmute crystals. My play is almost entirely PVE (trials, dungeons etc.) with battlegrounds being a smaller portion.

Then you should know that nightblades have been top dps since the game was released, and they're trying to finally balance the class to make it even with the rest. Have some shame, and don't complain about a balance change when you've been top dps by a considerable margin since the release of the game.

No. I have mained an NB since day one and it was the most broken class for over a year after release. It's only since a bunch of blanket nerfs in Morrowind - which the NB did seem to largely dodge - that the class has become viable.

Playing an NB has been largely a labour of love for most of the game's lifecycle. If it's nerfed so be it, it's only a game, but let's not pretend this class was always great, because was born as the runt of the litter.

They were way behind for a long time. Then they just popped up lol Morrowind was a strange patch.

In PvE yes. In PvP they were really strong for most of the time with few short breaks here and there.

I've had the opposite experience in all my time playing. My character can just get by in PVE dungeons and trials from a survivability standpoint and this hinders it significantly more in PVP. Leeching strikes helps but is nowhere near enough to avoid dying without support from a healer and tank. I agree the game needs a level of balance, where I strongly disagree is shafting a character's skills that have been around for years. Instead, the game should be balanced around what is currently in place and would result in a much higher level of satisfaction for all involved. Don't "balance" a skill that a player has used since starting to play but instead balance the new sets and skills to match.

Vapirko wrote: »

Stamblades aren’t used to being hit in any significant way by the nerf hammer. This is going to be a tear filled patch.

Iskiab wrote: »

TequilaFire wrote: »

Vapirko wrote: »

Stamblades aren’t used to being hit in any significant way by the nerf hammer. This is going to be a tear filled patch.

I bet a lot more than stamblades will be crying before they are done with the class changes.

Probably, but it’d be hard to keep up with sorcs.

BLAINE1245 wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

BLAINE1245 wrote: »

ZarkingFrued wrote: »

BLAINE1245 wrote: »

I know these are "rumored" and are still in the works and debate prior to going live. I created a forum account due to Wrathstone going live after having played this game for well over a year. I play one and only one character. A Khajiit Stamina Nightblade. This combination has been hindered (nerfed) via countless updates. The most concerning prior to now being the Wrathstone update which entirely eliminated bonus damage from stealth (the major perk of being Khajiit when other races have much better recovery and resources) as well as converting our 8% critical chance to a 10% critical damage bonus. Critical damage yields zero gain without a high chance of critical hits. Now the nightblade also loses Snipe (I know there's regular complaints but it's certainly on par with Take Flight and Endless Fury). There's also the whirlwind skill which is proposed to lose it's execute as well as grim focus losing the 8% bonus to all damage. I've played this game and only this game with this single character for all of my 50+ plus days played. These proposed changes will truly ruin my experience and destroy the way I enjoy playing my character daily.

I like how you compare snipe and endless fury(two very broken skills) to an ULTIMATE. That is the problem, and you're right, snipe and endless fury are on par with some ultimates and they're actually spammed skills.

Increase said ultimates rather than destroying a skill that's been untouched for years. It really is not all that comparable to an ultimate given it's ridiculous cast time and required focus ie requiring the enemy to be in constant focus during cast and the skill is stopped if not. I wouldn't call any skill requiring a 1.1s cast time "spammable".

Global cooldown for abilities is 0,9 second so You cant use instant cast abilities more often then around once every second. That totally makes 1,1 second cast time abilities a spammables. The downsides of casting those abilities are compensated by their tooltips for example in case of lethat arrow it's very high dmg (highest out of all stamina spammables) , major defile and poisoned status effect.

So a .9 second cooldown on top of a 1.1 second cast time = 2 full seconds which again is far from a spammable.

Silver_Strider wrote: »

templesus wrote: »

Silver_Strider wrote: »

templesus wrote: »

Silver_Strider wrote: »

templesus wrote: »

Silver_Strider wrote: »

Onefrkncrzypope wrote: »

Silver_Strider wrote: »

Onefrkncrzypope wrote: »

Dracan_Fontom wrote: »

templesus wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Kadoin wrote: »

Uh oh, someone's ez mode is getting turned off!

LMAO NB ez mode. NB is most skill-depen

templesus wrote: »

BLAINE1245 wrote: »

MaxJrFTW wrote: »

BLAINE1245 wrote: »

MaxJrFTW wrote: »

A pungent smell permeates this thread, i believe this is the smell...of zerg.

Well howdy there feller, i just want to let you know that we don't take kindly to your types 'round here!

Zerg has no bearing on anything aforementioned. I don't play Cyrodiil except to earn my 50 transmute crystals. My play is almost entirely PVE (trials, dungeons etc.) with battlegrounds being a smaller portion.

Then you should know that nightblades have been top dps since the game was released, and they're trying to finally balance the class to make it even with the rest. Have some shame, and don't complain about a balance change when you've been top dps by a considerable margin since the release of the game.

There is absolutely no shame in playing a class specifically designed for a certain role. I don't care to tank or heal and have therefore decided upon this class for the sake of continuing the way I have played Oblivion, Morrowind and Skyrim. Nightblade is a powerful class and rightfully so given their obvious flaws in other aspects of combat such as survivability and sustainability.

Errr, wrong, cloak and siphoning as well as passives give Stamblade arguably the best Survivability and Sustain of all stam classes.

As for spam dizzying? Joke? Stamblade has the best spammable in the game with Surprise Attack.

Adapt.

Ok, what about magblades, they are clearly underhanded in PVP, and in PVE this nerf won't matter in stack.. so most obvious way to nerf nightblades is nerf of surprise attack, and not of grim focus.
This nerf is not about balance, it's about sales of necromancer.

Yea unfortunately Magblade in PvP is getting hit with a significant nerf when in all actuality it needs buffs. Hopefully they’ll see buffs as well.

BLAINE1245 wrote: »

templesus wrote: »

BLAINE1245 wrote: »

MaxJrFTW wrote: »

BLAINE1245 wrote: »

MaxJrFTW wrote: »

A pungent smell permeates this thread, i believe this is the smell...of zerg.

Well howdy there feller, i just want to let you know that we don't take kindly to your types 'round here!

Zerg has no bearing on anything aforementioned. I don't play Cyrodiil except to earn my 50 transmute crystals. My play is almost entirely PVE (trials, dungeons etc.) with battlegrounds being a smaller portion.

Then you should know that nightblades have been top dps since the game was released, and they're trying to finally balance the class to make it even with the rest. Have some shame, and don't complain about a balance change when you've been top dps by a considerable margin since the release of the game.

There is absolutely no shame in playing a class specifically designed for a certain role. I don't care to tank or heal and have therefore decided upon this class for the sake of continuing the way I have played Oblivion, Morrowind and Skyrim. Nightblade is a powerful class and rightfully so given their obvious flaws in other aspects of combat such as survivability and sustainability.

Errr, wrong, cloak and siphoning as well as passives give Stamblade arguably the best Survivability and Sustain of all stam classes.

As for spam dizzying? Joke? Stamblade has the best spammable in the game with Surprise Attack.

Adapt.

I disagree. Cloak has no use in PVE (again what I predominantly play) and siphoning certainly helps but is exactly equal to skills of other classes ie: Daedric summoner and Daedric protection which combined increase health and stamina recovery as well as maximum health. Spammables? Also equivalent. Jabs?

Stamblade has siphoning and 15% stamina regen and health regen. Not sure what your point there is. And if it’s PvE, what classes have better survivability then Stamblade? Stamsorc is the only one I can think of with 100% uptime on major resolve/ward...other then that Stamblade gets it natively from their spammable wheras thenother classes have to use a non dps ability to get it. Everyone has vigor. Other morph of cloak heals. I’m not sure at all where your point is.

Every single magic class has better survivability than stambalde. Stamdens have better survivability. They get extra health passively, and every animal skill they use heals them as well as lotus with light or heavy attacks. Stamdk are built to be tanks, they are the definition of survivable. Stamplars are have their resource sustain built onto their resistance buff, not to mention minor protection with their jabs.

Uhh SDK only has the spell resist passive. So no. Absolutely wrong. Warden observation is also incorrect. Before comparing classes you will need more experience with them.

Can you give a single reason other than, "You're wrong" because I can name a few reasons as to why YOUR statement is wrong. For starters, StamDK get a buff to their survivability every time they drop an Ultimate since the Battle Roar Passive restores a good chunk of Health and Resources each time and the extra Spell Resistance still makes them more survivable by default. Stamden does get health back passively just for using their Animal Companion skills, which also triggers their Minor Toughness passive, meaning they naturally have more health than NB, while also having Major Mending, meaning their heals are also stronger than that of a NB.

So, tell me, what exactly is "wrong" with @Dracan_Fontom statement?

welp, PvE meta yes?

Passive damage mitigation:

sdk: 3.3k ish spell resit
warden: none

sblade: major ward/resolve plus for heavy armor(won't count it) for six seconds after cast

lets average it out????


warden = no resists

dk 3.3 spell only

snb = (depending on your rotation) either 100% uptime to as low as 0%... so either number one on everything or basically tied on spell and still win on physical or you haven't surprised attack recently so most likely dead....


healing during meta rotation:

sdk full bar heal every 84 secs but no heal other than that...(250/3 = 83.33333 sooo 84 seconds neeeeeeeeat numbers)

warden: every time a pet dies a warden gets a heal(1260 every 24 secs during meta rotation)

snb: siphoning strikes(meta skill) 1420 every light attack or heavy or full bar heal when killing something.

lets tally

sdk= avg heals per second: 136 health per sec but only in a burst once every 84 secs

ward: 52.5 per sec

snb: only a measly 1420 per sec if weaving correctly like I know you should boo




special bonus round.... but but this skill makes them better : (((((((( aka non meta rotations)

standard of but might debuff well yeah you got that but uptime is so low its twice during most regular vet trials( more like never because dk dps is in the gutter... Am I right bois hahahahahaha) still its a huge cost and its never for mitigation but its 15% or twelve idk dks suck

but but you got armor skills and things on the ward/sdk. you can run blur heals and tanky stuff to but we be talking meta... so again tally them up!!!!

nightblade everything
ward/dks nothing.

Yay

Again know the classes you are comparing. ANNNNNNNDDDDDDD


All numbers are pulled from fextralife because I'm to lazy to memorize all these worthless numbers to prove a point...

Good day sir.

I look at this from a Healer's perspective. When I have any Stamina builds in a group with me, usually the 1 class that I have to babysit the most are Stamblade. Stamden throws out Shrooms when their health get low, DK drops Dawnbreaker and Stamplar uses Repentance or BoL and they're fine. I haven't really run with Stam Sorcs in forever so I can't really comment on them much, although I'd say they're on par with Stamblade overall since Crit Surge and Leeching Strikes function similarly enough to one another in terms of healing and they both have Major Resistances naturally in their rotation so in theory, they should be similar enough.

Still, in application, I'd say in terms of PvE survivability it would be

Stamden > StamDK=Stamplar > Stamblade=StamSorc

Stamplar use BoL? What game is this?

I'm just saying in terms of class opinions since all classes have access to Vigor, I purposefully excluded it as it doesn't relate to class based actions in terms of survivability. As for why BoL, your guess is as good as mine as to why a Stamplar would use it in PvE but most likely reason being they're a PvP toon just farming for X set and are too lazy to switch their skills/sets around or whatever. Point was only to point out this option as a class based heal that they have available to them

Onefrkncrzypope wrote: »

Silver_Strider wrote: »

Onefrkncrzypope wrote: »

Silver_Strider wrote: »

Onefrkncrzypope wrote: »

Dracan_Fontom wrote: »

templesus wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Kadoin wrote: »

Uh oh, someone's ez mode is getting turned off!

LMAO NB ez mode. NB is most skill-depen

templesus wrote: »

BLAINE1245 wrote: »

MaxJrFTW wrote: »

BLAINE1245 wrote: »

MaxJrFTW wrote: »

A pungent smell permeates this thread, i believe this is the smell...of zerg.

Well howdy there feller, i just want to let you know that we don't take kindly to your types 'round here!

Zerg has no bearing on anything aforementioned. I don't play Cyrodiil except to earn my 50 transmute crystals. My play is almost entirely PVE (trials, dungeons etc.) with battlegrounds being a smaller portion.

Then you should know that nightblades have been top dps since the game was released, and they're trying to finally balance the class to make it even with the rest. Have some shame, and don't complain about a balance change when you've been top dps by a considerable margin since the release of the game.

There is absolutely no shame in playing a class specifically designed for a certain role. I don't care to tank or heal and have therefore decided upon this class for the sake of continuing the way I have played Oblivion, Morrowind and Skyrim. Nightblade is a powerful class and rightfully so given their obvious flaws in other aspects of combat such as survivability and sustainability.

Errr, wrong, cloak and siphoning as well as passives give Stamblade arguably the best Survivability and Sustain of all stam classes.

As for spam dizzying? Joke? Stamblade has the best spammable in the game with Surprise Attack.

Adapt.

Ok, what about magblades, they are clearly underhanded in PVP, and in PVE this nerf won't matter in stack.. so most obvious way to nerf nightblades is nerf of surprise attack, and not of grim focus.
This nerf is not about balance, it's about sales of necromancer.

Yea unfortunately Magblade in PvP is getting hit with a significant nerf when in all actuality it needs buffs. Hopefully they’ll see buffs as well.

BLAINE1245 wrote: »

templesus wrote: »

BLAINE1245 wrote: »

MaxJrFTW wrote: »

BLAINE1245 wrote: »

MaxJrFTW wrote: »

A pungent smell permeates this thread, i believe this is the smell...of zerg.

Well howdy there feller, i just want to let you know that we don't take kindly to your types 'round here!

Zerg has no bearing on anything aforementioned. I don't play Cyrodiil except to earn my 50 transmute crystals. My play is almost entirely PVE (trials, dungeons etc.) with battlegrounds being a smaller portion.

Then you should know that nightblades have been top dps since the game was released, and they're trying to finally balance the class to make it even with the rest. Have some shame, and don't complain about a balance change when you've been top dps by a considerable margin since the release of the game.

There is absolutely no shame in playing a class specifically designed for a certain role. I don't care to tank or heal and have therefore decided upon this class for the sake of continuing the way I have played Oblivion, Morrowind and Skyrim. Nightblade is a powerful class and rightfully so given their obvious flaws in other aspects of combat such as survivability and sustainability.

Errr, wrong, cloak and siphoning as well as passives give Stamblade arguably the best Survivability and Sustain of all stam classes.

As for spam dizzying? Joke? Stamblade has the best spammable in the game with Surprise Attack.

Adapt.

I disagree. Cloak has no use in PVE (again what I predominantly play) and siphoning certainly helps but is exactly equal to skills of other classes ie: Daedric summoner and Daedric protection which combined increase health and stamina recovery as well as maximum health. Spammables? Also equivalent. Jabs?

Stamblade has siphoning and 15% stamina regen and health regen. Not sure what your point there is. And if it’s PvE, what classes have better survivability then Stamblade? Stamsorc is the only one I can think of with 100% uptime on major resolve/ward...other then that Stamblade gets it natively from their spammable wheras thenother classes have to use a non dps ability to get it. Everyone has vigor. Other morph of cloak heals. I’m not sure at all where your point is.

Every single magic class has better survivability than stambalde. Stamdens have better survivability. They get extra health passively, and every animal skill they use heals them as well as lotus with light or heavy attacks. Stamdk are built to be tanks, they are the definition of survivable. Stamplars are have their resource sustain built onto their resistance buff, not to mention minor protection with their jabs.

Uhh SDK only has the spell resist passive. So no. Absolutely wrong. Warden observation is also incorrect. Before comparing classes you will need more experience with them.

Can you give a single reason other than, "You're wrong" because I can name a few reasons as to why YOUR statement is wrong. For starters, StamDK get a buff to their survivability every time they drop an Ultimate since the Battle Roar Passive restores a good chunk of Health and Resources each time and the extra Spell Resistance still makes them more survivable by default. Stamden does get health back passively just for using their Animal Companion skills, which also triggers their Minor Toughness passive, meaning they naturally have more health than NB, while also having Major Mending, meaning their heals are also stronger than that of a NB.

So, tell me, what exactly is "wrong" with @Dracan_Fontom statement?

welp, PvE meta yes?

Passive damage mitigation:

sdk: 3.3k ish spell resit
warden: none

sblade: major ward/resolve plus for heavy armor(won't count it) for six seconds after cast

lets average it out????


warden = no resists

dk 3.3 spell only

snb = (depending on your rotation) either 100% uptime to as low as 0%... so either number one on everything or basically tied on spell and still win on physical or you haven't surprised attack recently so most likely dead....


healing during meta rotation:

sdk full bar heal every 84 secs but no heal other than that...(250/3 = 83.33333 sooo 84 seconds neeeeeeeeat numbers)

warden: every time a pet dies a warden gets a heal(1260 every 24 secs during meta rotation)

snb: siphoning strikes(meta skill) 1420 every light attack or heavy or full bar heal when killing something.

lets tally

sdk= avg heals per second: 136 health per sec but only in a burst once every 84 secs

ward: 52.5 per sec

snb: only a measly 1420 per sec if weaving correctly like I know you should boo




special bonus round.... but but this skill makes them better : (((((((( aka non meta rotations)

standard of but might debuff well yeah you got that but uptime is so low its twice during most regular vet trials( more like never because dk dps is in the gutter... Am I right bois hahahahahaha) still its a huge cost and its never for mitigation but its 15% or twelve idk dks suck

but but you got armor skills and things on the ward/sdk. you can run blur heals and tanky stuff to but we be talking meta... so again tally them up!!!!

nightblade everything
ward/dks nothing.

Yay

Again know the classes you are comparing. ANNNNNNNDDDDDDD


All numbers are pulled from fextralife because I'm to lazy to memorize all these worthless numbers to prove a point...

Good day sir.

I look at this from a Healer's perspective. When I have any Stamina builds in a group with me, usually the 1 class that I have to babysit the most are Stamblade. Stamden throws out Shrooms when their health get low, DK drops Dawnbreaker and Stamplar uses Repentance or BoL and they're fine. I haven't really run with Stam Sorcs in forever so I can't really comment on them much, although I'd say they're on par with Stamblade overall since Crit Surge and Leeching Strikes function similarly enough to one another in terms of healing and they both have Major Resistances naturally in their rotation so in theory, they should be similar enough.

Still, in application, I'd say in terms of PvE survivability it would be

Stamden >StamDK=Stamplar> Stamblade=StamSorc

Why they no vigor? Again it's a meta analysis on what the classes has to offer.

Surge doesn't equal strikes.

Dawnbreaker isn't a heal is only up after ulti gained and isn't classed based.(why is everyone argument trying to make this sound like a bol??? It's up only every 50 secs or more)

If there is no dead repentance is worthless.
Stamplar's focus on the other hand is very nice.

I mean you can't base class balance on a eye balling.

I'm not saying I have the most hours or anything but I average around a 1000 hours on each of the 10 dps toons. Some alot less some alot more. I've done high end and low end and even train new players on these classes(not the Mastermind of any class).

I don't base my beliefs on the subjective. I wrote out a comparison that was fair and accurate. If anyone after wants to talk about what I missed in a class based comparison sure I will reply but just saying you think differently because like you know, isn't going to get a response.

Y'all have a nice morning, may your coffee be strong and you coworkers be quiet eaters.

Vigor is not a Class based ability, hence why I'm not mentioning it since all classes can use it.
I was NOT referring to Dawnbreaker in my DK example as a healing ability but referencing its use in conjunction with Battle Roar as a heal; and much like BoL, you aren't Spamming heals on yourself every 2 seconds only when you need them so for DK, if you have an Ultimate and need health, you're going to drop the ultimate immediately to get that heal. A NB might get more passive healing as a result of Leeching Strikes but when they need an "oh $#!%" heal, it's literally Vigor or bust. I only compare Crit Surge and Leeching Strikes because of how similarly they are in that they're both Heals over Time abilities (granted I'd say Crit Surge is more potent but whatever). However, when push comes to shove, both StamSorc and Stamblade are there using Vigor as their only real heal option.

I'm not saying that your assessment is wrong but in practical applications, it just doesn't work out the way you say it should. Just because a NB is getting back health every light attack doesn't necessarily mean their survivability is better than that of a Stamden or StamDK because those classes have options within them for those moments when survivability actually matters vs a NB which has nothing native to it and relies heavily on Vigor to pull it thru. I never take Vigor off my Bar on my Stamblade as its suicide to do so, whereas most other classes actually have some option in 1 form or another and while some aren't the greatest option (such as BoL on a Stamplar) it's better than nothing at all.

That's all I'm saying here.

So why did you include BoL for stamplar, and exclude Dark cloak for Stamblade, when it heals for more then BoL does on Stamplar? Serious question.

For the same reason I excluded Clannfear, GDB, and Polar Winds; They're Tank related heals and their inclusion wouldn't really be needed to make my point. If I include Tank Skills, Templar would still have better survivability over NB both passively and actively as Templar uses Rune for resources management and gain the same resistance as NB, Minor Mending+Minor Protection via passives, and Sun Shield + the aforementioned BoL/Repentance, vs Dark Cloak which heals and provides Minor Protection and Leeching Strikes.

If I include GDB, that means DK also get 12% extra healing via passives and an 8% additional healing received from Minor Vitality.

If I include Polar Winds, that's some extra resistance for Warden passively (think it's only 500 but still).

I've no comment on Clannfear on a StamSorc. It's weird to see much like its weird seeing a Stamblade using Dark Cloak in PvE but I digress.

Their inclusion doesn't tip the scales more in NB's favor then it does prove that NB has crap survivability so I didn't feel the need to include them.

Ah ok I see...so what I got from that is it’s weird to see a NB using Dark Cloak in PvE (which magblades actually use in vCR but thats neither here nor there as we are talking about Stamblade, just stating it’s used and is NOT a tank skill), but it’s not weird to see a Stamplar use BoL. Makes total, perfect, non-sarcastic sense.

/s

You also see Templar run Sun Shield in vAS, what's your point? It's still unusual to see but that doesn't mean it doesn't have it merits and the fact you resort to sarcasm when I've already pointed out that even with Dark Cloak being taken into account, NB still has crappier survivability tools than Templar just means you really don't have much of a leg to stand on and are grasping at straws to try and deflect that you are wrong.

It's sad honestly.

Silver_Strider wrote: »

templesus wrote: »

Silver_Strider wrote: »

templesus wrote: »

Silver_Strider wrote: »

templesus wrote: »

Silver_Strider wrote: »

templesus wrote: »

Silver_Strider wrote: »

Onefrkncrzypope wrote: »

Silver_Strider wrote: »

Onefrkncrzypope wrote: »

Dracan_Fontom wrote: »

templesus wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Kadoin wrote: »

Uh oh, someone's ez mode is getting turned off!

LMAO NB ez mode. NB is most skill-depen

templesus wrote: »

BLAINE1245 wrote: »

MaxJrFTW wrote: »

BLAINE1245 wrote: »

MaxJrFTW wrote: »

A pungent smell permeates this thread, i believe this is the smell...of zerg.

Well howdy there feller, i just want to let you know that we don't take kindly to your types 'round here!

Zerg has no bearing on anything aforementioned. I don't play Cyrodiil except to earn my 50 transmute crystals. My play is almost entirely PVE (trials, dungeons etc.) with battlegrounds being a smaller portion.

Then you should know that nightblades have been top dps since the game was released, and they're trying to finally balance the class to make it even with the rest. Have some shame, and don't complain about a balance change when you've been top dps by a considerable margin since the release of the game.

There is absolutely no shame in playing a class specifically designed for a certain role. I don't care to tank or heal and have therefore decided upon this class for the sake of continuing the way I have played Oblivion, Morrowind and Skyrim. Nightblade is a powerful class and rightfully so given their obvious flaws in other aspects of combat such as survivability and sustainability.

Errr, wrong, cloak and siphoning as well as passives give Stamblade arguably the best Survivability and Sustain of all stam classes.

As for spam dizzying? Joke? Stamblade has the best spammable in the game with Surprise Attack.

Adapt.

Ok, what about magblades, they are clearly underhanded in PVP, and in PVE this nerf won't matter in stack.. so most obvious way to nerf nightblades is nerf of surprise attack, and not of grim focus.
This nerf is not about balance, it's about sales of necromancer.

Yea unfortunately Magblade in PvP is getting hit with a significant nerf when in all actuality it needs buffs. Hopefully they’ll see buffs as well.

BLAINE1245 wrote: »

templesus wrote: »

BLAINE1245 wrote: »

MaxJrFTW wrote: »

BLAINE1245 wrote: »

MaxJrFTW wrote: »

A pungent smell permeates this thread, i believe this is the smell...of zerg.

Well howdy there feller, i just want to let you know that we don't take kindly to your types 'round here!

Zerg has no bearing on anything aforementioned. I don't play Cyrodiil except to earn my 50 transmute crystals. My play is almost entirely PVE (trials, dungeons etc.) with battlegrounds being a smaller portion.

Then you should know that nightblades have been top dps since the game was released, and they're trying to finally balance the class to make it even with the rest. Have some shame, and don't complain about a balance change when you've been top dps by a considerable margin since the release of the game.

There is absolutely no shame in playing a class specifically designed for a certain role. I don't care to tank or heal and have therefore decided upon this class for the sake of continuing the way I have played Oblivion, Morrowind and Skyrim. Nightblade is a powerful class and rightfully so given their obvious flaws in other aspects of combat such as survivability and sustainability.

Errr, wrong, cloak and siphoning as well as passives give Stamblade arguably the best Survivability and Sustain of all stam classes.

As for spam dizzying? Joke? Stamblade has the best spammable in the game with Surprise Attack.

Adapt.

I disagree. Cloak has no use in PVE (again what I predominantly play) and siphoning certainly helps but is exactly equal to skills of other classes ie: Daedric summoner and Daedric protection which combined increase health and stamina recovery as well as maximum health. Spammables? Also equivalent. Jabs?

Stamblade has siphoning and 15% stamina regen and health regen. Not sure what your point there is. And if it’s PvE, what classes have better survivability then Stamblade? Stamsorc is the only one I can think of with 100% uptime on major resolve/ward...other then that Stamblade gets it natively from their spammable wheras thenother classes have to use a non dps ability to get it. Everyone has vigor. Other morph of cloak heals. I’m not sure at all where your point is.

Every single magic class has better survivability than stambalde. Stamdens have better survivability. They get extra health passively, and every animal skill they use heals them as well as lotus with light or heavy attacks. Stamdk are built to be tanks, they are the definition of survivable. Stamplars are have their resource sustain built onto their resistance buff, not to mention minor protection with their jabs.

Uhh SDK only has the spell resist passive. So no. Absolutely wrong. Warden observation is also incorrect. Before comparing classes you will need more experience with them.

Can you give a single reason other than, "You're wrong" because I can name a few reasons as to why YOUR statement is wrong. For starters, StamDK get a buff to their survivability every time they drop an Ultimate since the Battle Roar Passive restores a good chunk of Health and Resources each time and the extra Spell Resistance still makes them more survivable by default. Stamden does get health back passively just for using their Animal Companion skills, which also triggers their Minor Toughness passive, meaning they naturally have more health than NB, while also having Major Mending, meaning their heals are also stronger than that of a NB.

So, tell me, what exactly is "wrong" with @Dracan_Fontom statement?

welp, PvE meta yes?

Passive damage mitigation:

sdk: 3.3k ish spell resit
warden: none

sblade: major ward/resolve plus for heavy armor(won't count it) for six seconds after cast

lets average it out????


warden = no resists

dk 3.3 spell only

snb = (depending on your rotation) either 100% uptime to as low as 0%... so either number one on everything or basically tied on spell and still win on physical or you haven't surprised attack recently so most likely dead....


healing during meta rotation:

sdk full bar heal every 84 secs but no heal other than that...(250/3 = 83.33333 sooo 84 seconds neeeeeeeeat numbers)

warden: every time a pet dies a warden gets a heal(1260 every 24 secs during meta rotation)

snb: siphoning strikes(meta skill) 1420 every light attack or heavy or full bar heal when killing something.

lets tally

sdk= avg heals per second: 136 health per sec but only in a burst once every 84 secs

ward: 52.5 per sec

snb: only a measly 1420 per sec if weaving correctly like I know you should boo




special bonus round.... but but this skill makes them better : (((((((( aka non meta rotations)

standard of but might debuff well yeah you got that but uptime is so low its twice during most regular vet trials( more like never because dk dps is in the gutter... Am I right bois hahahahahaha) still its a huge cost and its never for mitigation but its 15% or twelve idk dks suck

but but you got armor skills and things on the ward/sdk. you can run blur heals and tanky stuff to but we be talking meta... so again tally them up!!!!

nightblade everything
ward/dks nothing.

Yay

Again know the classes you are comparing. ANNNNNNNDDDDDDD


All numbers are pulled from fextralife because I'm to lazy to memorize all these worthless numbers to prove a point...

Good day sir.

I look at this from a Healer's perspective. When I have any Stamina builds in a group with me, usually the 1 class that I have to babysit the most are Stamblade. Stamden throws out Shrooms when their health get low, DK drops Dawnbreaker and Stamplar uses Repentance or BoL and they're fine. I haven't really run with Stam Sorcs in forever so I can't really comment on them much, although I'd say they're on par with Stamblade overall since Crit Surge and Leeching Strikes function similarly enough to one another in terms of healing and they both have Major Resistances naturally in their rotation so in theory, they should be similar enough.

Still, in application, I'd say in terms of PvE survivability it would be

Stamden > StamDK=Stamplar > Stamblade=StamSorc

Stamplar use BoL? What game is this?

I'm just saying in terms of class opinions since all classes have access to Vigor, I purposefully excluded it as it doesn't relate to class based actions in terms of survivability. As for why BoL, your guess is as good as mine as to why a Stamplar would use it in PvE but most likely reason being they're a PvP toon just farming for X set and are too lazy to switch their skills/sets around or whatever. Point was only to point out this option as a class based heal that they have available to them

Onefrkncrzypope wrote: »

Silver_Strider wrote: »

Onefrkncrzypope wrote: »

Silver_Strider wrote: »

Onefrkncrzypope wrote: »

Dracan_Fontom wrote: »

templesus wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Kadoin wrote: »

Uh oh, someone's ez mode is getting turned off!

LMAO NB ez mode. NB is most skill-depen

templesus wrote: »

BLAINE1245 wrote: »

MaxJrFTW wrote: »

BLAINE1245 wrote: »

MaxJrFTW wrote: »

A pungent smell permeates this thread, i believe this is the smell...of zerg.

Well howdy there feller, i just want to let you know that we don't take kindly to your types 'round here!

Zerg has no bearing on anything aforementioned. I don't play Cyrodiil except to earn my 50 transmute crystals. My play is almost entirely PVE (trials, dungeons etc.) with battlegrounds being a smaller portion.

Then you should know that nightblades have been top dps since the game was released, and they're trying to finally balance the class to make it even with the rest. Have some shame, and don't complain about a balance change when you've been top dps by a considerable margin since the release of the game.

There is absolutely no shame in playing a class specifically designed for a certain role. I don't care to tank or heal and have therefore decided upon this class for the sake of continuing the way I have played Oblivion, Morrowind and Skyrim. Nightblade is a powerful class and rightfully so given their obvious flaws in other aspects of combat such as survivability and sustainability.

Errr, wrong, cloak and siphoning as well as passives give Stamblade arguably the best Survivability and Sustain of all stam classes.

As for spam dizzying? Joke? Stamblade has the best spammable in the game with Surprise Attack.

Adapt.

Ok, what about magblades, they are clearly underhanded in PVP, and in PVE this nerf won't matter in stack.. so most obvious way to nerf nightblades is nerf of surprise attack, and not of grim focus.
This nerf is not about balance, it's about sales of necromancer.

Yea unfortunately Magblade in PvP is getting hit with a significant nerf when in all actuality it needs buffs. Hopefully they’ll see buffs as well.

BLAINE1245 wrote: »

templesus wrote: »

BLAINE1245 wrote: »

MaxJrFTW wrote: »

BLAINE1245 wrote: »

MaxJrFTW wrote: »

A pungent smell permeates this thread, i believe this is the smell...of zerg.

Well howdy there feller, i just want to let you know that we don't take kindly to your types 'round here!

Zerg has no bearing on anything aforementioned. I don't play Cyrodiil except to earn my 50 transmute crystals. My play is almost entirely PVE (trials, dungeons etc.) with battlegrounds being a smaller portion.

Then you should know that nightblades have been top dps since the game was released, and they're trying to finally balance the class to make it even with the rest. Have some shame, and don't complain about a balance change when you've been top dps by a considerable margin since the release of the game.

There is absolutely no shame in playing a class specifically designed for a certain role. I don't care to tank or heal and have therefore decided upon this class for the sake of continuing the way I have played Oblivion, Morrowind and Skyrim. Nightblade is a powerful class and rightfully so given their obvious flaws in other aspects of combat such as survivability and sustainability.

Errr, wrong, cloak and siphoning as well as passives give Stamblade arguably the best Survivability and Sustain of all stam classes.

As for spam dizzying? Joke? Stamblade has the best spammable in the game with Surprise Attack.

Adapt.

I disagree. Cloak has no use in PVE (again what I predominantly play) and siphoning certainly helps but is exactly equal to skills of other classes ie: Daedric summoner and Daedric protection which combined increase health and stamina recovery as well as maximum health. Spammables? Also equivalent. Jabs?

Stamblade has siphoning and 15% stamina regen and health regen. Not sure what your point there is. And if it’s PvE, what classes have better survivability then Stamblade? Stamsorc is the only one I can think of with 100% uptime on major resolve/ward...other then that Stamblade gets it natively from their spammable wheras thenother classes have to use a non dps ability to get it. Everyone has vigor. Other morph of cloak heals. I’m not sure at all where your point is.

Every single magic class has better survivability than stambalde. Stamdens have better survivability. They get extra health passively, and every animal skill they use heals them as well as lotus with light or heavy attacks. Stamdk are built to be tanks, they are the definition of survivable. Stamplars are have their resource sustain built onto their resistance buff, not to mention minor protection with their jabs.

Uhh SDK only has the spell resist passive. So no. Absolutely wrong. Warden observation is also incorrect. Before comparing classes you will need more experience with them.

Can you give a single reason other than, "You're wrong" because I can name a few reasons as to why YOUR statement is wrong. For starters, StamDK get a buff to their survivability every time they drop an Ultimate since the Battle Roar Passive restores a good chunk of Health and Resources each time and the extra Spell Resistance still makes them more survivable by default. Stamden does get health back passively just for using their Animal Companion skills, which also triggers their Minor Toughness passive, meaning they naturally have more health than NB, while also having Major Mending, meaning their heals are also stronger than that of a NB.

So, tell me, what exactly is "wrong" with @Dracan_Fontom statement?

welp, PvE meta yes?

Passive damage mitigation:

sdk: 3.3k ish spell resit
warden: none

sblade: major ward/resolve plus for heavy armor(won't count it) for six seconds after cast

lets average it out????


warden = no resists

dk 3.3 spell only

snb = (depending on your rotation) either 100% uptime to as low as 0%... so either number one on everything or basically tied on spell and still win on physical or you haven't surprised attack recently so most likely dead....


healing during meta rotation:

sdk full bar heal every 84 secs but no heal other than that...(250/3 = 83.33333 sooo 84 seconds neeeeeeeeat numbers)

warden: every time a pet dies a warden gets a heal(1260 every 24 secs during meta rotation)

snb: siphoning strikes(meta skill) 1420 every light attack or heavy or full bar heal when killing something.

lets tally

sdk= avg heals per second: 136 health per sec but only in a burst once every 84 secs

ward: 52.5 per sec

snb: only a measly 1420 per sec if weaving correctly like I know you should boo




special bonus round.... but but this skill makes them better : (((((((( aka non meta rotations)

standard of but might debuff well yeah you got that but uptime is so low its twice during most regular vet trials( more like never because dk dps is in the gutter... Am I right bois hahahahahaha) still its a huge cost and its never for mitigation but its 15% or twelve idk dks suck

but but you got armor skills and things on the ward/sdk. you can run blur heals and tanky stuff to but we be talking meta... so again tally them up!!!!

nightblade everything
ward/dks nothing.

Yay

Again know the classes you are comparing. ANNNNNNNDDDDDDD


All numbers are pulled from fextralife because I'm to lazy to memorize all these worthless numbers to prove a point...

Good day sir.

I look at this from a Healer's perspective. When I have any Stamina builds in a group with me, usually the 1 class that I have to babysit the most are Stamblade. Stamden throws out Shrooms when their health get low, DK drops Dawnbreaker and Stamplar uses Repentance or BoL and they're fine. I haven't really run with Stam Sorcs in forever so I can't really comment on them much, although I'd say they're on par with Stamblade overall since Crit Surge and Leeching Strikes function similarly enough to one another in terms of healing and they both have Major Resistances naturally in their rotation so in theory, they should be similar enough.

Still, in application, I'd say in terms of PvE survivability it would be

Stamden >StamDK=Stamplar> Stamblade=StamSorc

Why they no vigor? Again it's a meta analysis on what the classes has to offer.

Surge doesn't equal strikes.

Dawnbreaker isn't a heal is only up after ulti gained and isn't classed based.(why is everyone argument trying to make this sound like a bol??? It's up only every 50 secs or more)

If there is no dead repentance is worthless.
Stamplar's focus on the other hand is very nice.

I mean you can't base class balance on a eye balling.

I'm not saying I have the most hours or anything but I average around a 1000 hours on each of the 10 dps toons. Some alot less some alot more. I've done high end and low end and even train new players on these classes(not the Mastermind of any class).

I don't base my beliefs on the subjective. I wrote out a comparison that was fair and accurate. If anyone after wants to talk about what I missed in a class based comparison sure I will reply but just saying you think differently because like you know, isn't going to get a response.

Y'all have a nice morning, may your coffee be strong and you coworkers be quiet eaters.

Vigor is not a Class based ability, hence why I'm not mentioning it since all classes can use it.
I was NOT referring to Dawnbreaker in my DK example as a healing ability but referencing its use in conjunction with Battle Roar as a heal; and much like BoL, you aren't Spamming heals on yourself every 2 seconds only when you need them so for DK, if you have an Ultimate and need health, you're going to drop the ultimate immediately to get that heal. A NB might get more passive healing as a result of Leeching Strikes but when they need an "oh $#!%" heal, it's literally Vigor or bust. I only compare Crit Surge and Leeching Strikes because of how similarly they are in that they're both Heals over Time abilities (granted I'd say Crit Surge is more potent but whatever). However, when push comes to shove, both StamSorc and Stamblade are there using Vigor as their only real heal option.

I'm not saying that your assessment is wrong but in practical applications, it just doesn't work out the way you say it should. Just because a NB is getting back health every light attack doesn't necessarily mean their survivability is better than that of a Stamden or StamDK because those classes have options within them for those moments when survivability actually matters vs a NB which has nothing native to it and relies heavily on Vigor to pull it thru. I never take Vigor off my Bar on my Stamblade as its suicide to do so, whereas most other classes actually have some option in 1 form or another and while some aren't the greatest option (such as BoL on a Stamplar) it's better than nothing at all.

That's all I'm saying here.

So why did you include BoL for stamplar, and exclude Dark cloak for Stamblade, when it heals for more then BoL does on Stamplar? Serious question.

For the same reason I excluded Clannfear, GDB, and Polar Winds; They're Tank related heals and their inclusion wouldn't really be needed to make my point. If I include Tank Skills, Templar would still have better survivability over NB both passively and actively as Templar uses Rune for resources management and gain the same resistance as NB, Minor Mending+Minor Protection via passives, and Sun Shield + the aforementioned BoL/Repentance, vs Dark Cloak which heals and provides Minor Protection and Leeching Strikes.

If I include GDB, that means DK also get 12% extra healing via passives and an 8% additional healing received from Minor Vitality.

If I include Polar Winds, that's some extra resistance for Warden passively (think it's only 500 but still).

I've no comment on Clannfear on a StamSorc. It's weird to see much like its weird seeing a Stamblade using Dark Cloak in PvE but I digress.

Their inclusion doesn't tip the scales more in NB's favor then it does prove that NB has crap survivability so I didn't feel the need to include them.

Ah ok I see...so what I got from that is it’s weird to see a NB using Dark Cloak in PvE (which magblades actually use in vCR but thats neither here nor there as we are talking about Stamblade, just stating it’s used and is NOT a tank skill), but it’s not weird to see a Stamplar use BoL. Makes total, perfect, non-sarcastic sense.

/s

You also see Templar run Sun Shield in vAS, what's your point? It's still unusual to see but that doesn't mean it doesn't have it merits and the fact you resort to sarcasm when I've already pointed out that even with Dark Cloak being taken into account, NB still has crappier survivability tools than Templar just means you really don't have much of a leg to stand on and are grasping at straws to try and deflect that you are wrong.

It's sad honestly.

No....Templar doesn’t use sun shield in vAS, we use Dampen.

Your whole premise is arguing from the standpoint of a casual dungeon runner, from the minute you said Stamplars have BoL and DKs drop dawnbreaker to heal. I, being an endgame PvEer, have no qualms with whatever you find suitable for dungeons.

However when you decide to come to the endgame PvE turf, just know that Stamblade, being that it has the only non stam costing Major evasion source as well as having major resistances built into its spammable, is far better off then any other spec in the game. At the endgame raiding level, you will notice the survivability difference between a Stamblade going for TTT and any other Stam spec going for TTT, that is not arguable, it is pure fact.

Your inability to understand such is why the Class Rep program should not let anybody in that is not of end game caliber. People that would advocate for Stamblade buffs in PvE simply have absolutely NO idea what they are talking about, it’s sad, honestly.

No, I'm saying this as someone that runs all forms of PvE content. I rarely see any Stamina builds in End Game content anymore due to their generally poor survivability and even after the shield nerfs, Magic Builds trump Stamina builds in terms of survivability and the damage difference is negligible at best. On the off chance there is a Stamina build there, it was almost always a Stamplar because of their superior cleave damage and PotL. The argument of not having to use Stamina for Major Evasion is also laughable because Blade Cloak is just flat out better than Blur in practically every way. Between the Major Evasion and Damage of Blade Cloak, there's not much of an argument for Blur at all as its only real feature it offers is Minor Resistances or Major Expedition, and that's really it.

Also, not a SINGLE time in this discussion did I ask for a Stamblade buff. I said NB had higher DPS but crappier survivability than other classes and that is all I have ever stated so as to why you're bringing a totally unrelated topic about Class Reps and Stamblade buffs is beyond me but I'll just chalk it up to more deflection on your part since that's literally all you've been doing this topic. I'm not a Class Rep. I never applied for the position and don't want the position because then it would mean having to deal with people like you that swear they know everything when they very clearly don't and I have better things to do than waste my time with people that would use Strawman arguments to try and sound superior but are really just full of themselves. People like you aren't worth that sort of aggravation.

https://youtu.be/kBZl-GBTJP0