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Regarding the proposed changes to NB Class
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BLAINE1245✭✭Looking for the source of that Minor Berserk removal....
There are at least three threads on this forum in response to this proposed change. Here is the link I've seen referenced: https://www.eso-library.com/core/index.php?chapter-elsweyr-de/.0 -
TequilaFire✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Kidgangster101 wrote: »Silver_Strider wrote: »Kidgangster101 wrote: »Silver_Strider wrote: »BLAINE1245 wrote: »A pungent smell permeates this thread, i believe this is the smell...of zerg.
Well howdy there feller, i just want to let you know that we don't take kindly to your types 'round here!
Zerg has no bearing on anything aforementioned. I don't play Cyrodiil except to earn my 50 transmute crystals. My play is almost entirely PVE (trials, dungeons etc.) with battlegrounds being a smaller portion.
Then you should know that nightblades have been top dps since the game was released, and they're trying to finally balance the class to make it even with the rest. Have some shame, and don't complain about a balance change when you've been top dps by a considerable margin since the release of the game.
This is an outright lie. On release, the game was horribly broken that Vampire MagicDK was God Tier for practially everything in the entire game, being nearly unkillable with infinite resources and hitting Armor Cap in Light Armor with nothing but Spiked Armor. NB was complete trash tier for years and didn't even become truly good until Morrowind nerfed everyone's sustain and allowed them to shine with Siphoning Strikes but that was a long time after launch.
Lol idk what game you playing back then but NB was amazing in pvp always.
1) cloak use to purge 5 debuffs when used.........
2) when the game first launched NB was the go to stam class as it had moves that actually supported stam play where every other class had to rely on weapon trees
3) clouding swarm use to count as a "stealth move" so it would 100% crit as a vampire
4) fear has always been broken and it use to fear entire zergs by themselfs and it still had a very long delay to break out
5) in pvp NB was always the most bursty class in the game magic and Stam side you had to build and still have to build to stop them from killing you in 2 hits. (Magblade got gutted)
6) cloak has always created bugs and exploits in the game that no other class had access to. (Expert Hunter 1 shot bug, snipe desync)
Maybe the nbs you played with or played as back then was bad but the nbs I played with would tear things apart at launch (myself included when I use to play NB a lot back then)
No, NB were just a nuisance back then. Even with Cloak purging 5 debuffs, the skills was broken most of the time and couldn't be relied on. Stamina was dead on arrival at launch since it did crap damage, had no survivability since there was no stamina based heal at the time and while Hybrid build were possible to get some success, MagicDK Vampire did far better damage in general because Vampire was busted AF at launch; You HAD to be one in order to be relevant at all and while NB had better success than Sorc or Templar in that department, DK was just stronger because it had the strongest skills in the game at the time and could vastly outlast a Vampire NB. The only way a NB could win vs a DK was by abusing Shade and that was really it. No argument on fear as I agree, it was busted back then but Magblade burst was 100% negated by DK wings, full stop. Meteor, Funnel Health, Cripple, the entirety of it all was completely worthless against a DK and Grim Focus wasn't a thing because they had that crappy Haste skill that didn't even work. Expert Hunter was a bug on its own. You didn't have to be a NB to abuse it much like you don't need to be a NB to abuse Snipe.
Keep lying to yourself but don't try and pretend NB was some godly broken class at launch. It was broken, sure, as in half its abilities didn't work but that didn't mean the class was good either.
Bro at launch of the game vigor and rally we're both in the game. On top of that there was no healing Nerf in pvp so vigor would heal Sooooooo much. You can pretend all you want but I played in a pvp only guild on console and we constantly had a NB emp in our guild that used sns and 2h. He used basic NB moves had rally and vigor, cloak purging 5 debuffs, fear stopping entire zergs in their tracks. Vampire was busted on all ends clouding swarms from nbs and devouring from others before they were both nerfed. So lie to yourself And everyone else but us older players remember good old cyrodil days
I hate to break it to you but console launch was not the beginning of the game.
Many things were different and changed the year prior to console launch.
One of them was the improvement of NBs.Edited by TequilaFire on March 31, 2019 1:57PM2 -
frostz417✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭This post screams “I’m just a clueless noob and I don’t want my ez mode removed”4 -
Onefrkncrzypope✭✭✭✭✭
✭John_Falstaff wrote: »@Onefrkncrzypope , I don't think it works like that. Healing over time means nothing when you need a burst heal here and now. I strongly dislike the way DK gets sustain, but Battle Roar is a great 'oh #%@!' button when low on health or resources.
Implying that you have a uli ready it's a heal, that's why I turned it into a heal per second. What ever you say will still average out to what I wrote. Shield ult =138 per second but in a burst heal. If I took the heal per second away it doesn't make SDK any tankier. Put barrier on a stamblade it would be the same. SDK are squishier than a nightblade. That was the argument.
Edit: turning it to heals per second was just a metric to compare the threeEdited by Onefrkncrzypope on March 31, 2019 2:44PM-Immortal Redeemer-
-Extinguisher of Flames-
-Gryphon Heart-
-Potato-
If I edited a post, it was for spelling. It is always because of spelling....0 -
Wildberryjack✭✭✭✭✭
✭Are these changes blanket or only in PvP? Cause if blanket it would be nice if games stopped ruining the PvE end because of the minority who PvP then whine when they get their butts beat.Edited by Wildberryjack on March 31, 2019 3:08PMThe purpose of art is washing the dust of daily life off our souls. ~Pablo Picasso4 -
Silver_Strider✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Onefrkncrzypope wrote: »Silver_Strider wrote: »Onefrkncrzypope wrote: »Dracan_Fontom wrote: »MartiniDaniels wrote: »Uh oh, someone's ez mode is getting turned off!
LMAO NB ez mode. NB is most skill-depenBLAINE1245 wrote: »BLAINE1245 wrote: »A pungent smell permeates this thread, i believe this is the smell...of zerg.
Well howdy there feller, i just want to let you know that we don't take kindly to your types 'round here!
Zerg has no bearing on anything aforementioned. I don't play Cyrodiil except to earn my 50 transmute crystals. My play is almost entirely PVE (trials, dungeons etc.) with battlegrounds being a smaller portion.
Then you should know that nightblades have been top dps since the game was released, and they're trying to finally balance the class to make it even with the rest. Have some shame, and don't complain about a balance change when you've been top dps by a considerable margin since the release of the game.
There is absolutely no shame in playing a class specifically designed for a certain role. I don't care to tank or heal and have therefore decided upon this class for the sake of continuing the way I have played Oblivion, Morrowind and Skyrim. Nightblade is a powerful class and rightfully so given their obvious flaws in other aspects of combat such as survivability and sustainability.
Errr, wrong, cloak and siphoning as well as passives give Stamblade arguably the best Survivability and Sustain of all stam classes.
As for spam dizzying? Joke? Stamblade has the best spammable in the game with Surprise Attack.
Adapt.
Ok, what about magblades, they are clearly underhanded in PVP, and in PVE this nerf won't matter in stack.. so most obvious way to nerf nightblades is nerf of surprise attack, and not of grim focus.
This nerf is not about balance, it's about sales of necromancer.
Yea unfortunately Magblade in PvP is getting hit with a significant nerf when in all actuality it needs buffs. Hopefully they’ll see buffs as well.BLAINE1245 wrote: »BLAINE1245 wrote: »BLAINE1245 wrote: »A pungent smell permeates this thread, i believe this is the smell...of zerg.
Well howdy there feller, i just want to let you know that we don't take kindly to your types 'round here!
Zerg has no bearing on anything aforementioned. I don't play Cyrodiil except to earn my 50 transmute crystals. My play is almost entirely PVE (trials, dungeons etc.) with battlegrounds being a smaller portion.
Then you should know that nightblades have been top dps since the game was released, and they're trying to finally balance the class to make it even with the rest. Have some shame, and don't complain about a balance change when you've been top dps by a considerable margin since the release of the game.
There is absolutely no shame in playing a class specifically designed for a certain role. I don't care to tank or heal and have therefore decided upon this class for the sake of continuing the way I have played Oblivion, Morrowind and Skyrim. Nightblade is a powerful class and rightfully so given their obvious flaws in other aspects of combat such as survivability and sustainability.
Errr, wrong, cloak and siphoning as well as passives give Stamblade arguably the best Survivability and Sustain of all stam classes.
As for spam dizzying? Joke? Stamblade has the best spammable in the game with Surprise Attack.
Adapt.
I disagree. Cloak has no use in PVE (again what I predominantly play) and siphoning certainly helps but is exactly equal to skills of other classes ie: Daedric summoner and Daedric protection which combined increase health and stamina recovery as well as maximum health. Spammables? Also equivalent. Jabs?
Stamblade has siphoning and 15% stamina regen and health regen. Not sure what your point there is. And if it’s PvE, what classes have better survivability then Stamblade? Stamsorc is the only one I can think of with 100% uptime on major resolve/ward...other then that Stamblade gets it natively from their spammable wheras thenother classes have to use a non dps ability to get it. Everyone has vigor. Other morph of cloak heals. I’m not sure at all where your point is.
Every single magic class has better survivability than stambalde. Stamdens have better survivability. They get extra health passively, and every animal skill they use heals them as well as lotus with light or heavy attacks. Stamdk are built to be tanks, they are the definition of survivable. Stamplars are have their resource sustain built onto their resistance buff, not to mention minor protection with their jabs.
Uhh SDK only has the spell resist passive. So no. Absolutely wrong. Warden observation is also incorrect. Before comparing classes you will need more experience with them.
Can you give a single reason other than, "You're wrong" because I can name a few reasons as to why YOUR statement is wrong. For starters, StamDK get a buff to their survivability every time they drop an Ultimate since the Battle Roar Passive restores a good chunk of Health and Resources each time and the extra Spell Resistance still makes them more survivable by default. Stamden does get health back passively just for using their Animal Companion skills, which also triggers their Minor Toughness passive, meaning they naturally have more health than NB, while also having Major Mending, meaning their heals are also stronger than that of a NB.
So, tell me, what exactly is "wrong" with @Dracan_Fontom statement?
welp, PvE meta yes?
Passive damage mitigation:
sdk: 3.3k ish spell resit
warden: none
sblade: major ward/resolve plus for heavy armor(won't count it) for six seconds after cast
lets average it out????
warden = no resists
dk 3.3 spell only
snb = (depending on your rotation) either 100% uptime to as low as 0%... so either number one on everything or basically tied on spell and still win on physical or you haven't surprised attack recently so most likely dead....
healing during meta rotation:
sdk full bar heal every 84 secs but no heal other than that...(250/3 = 83.33333 sooo 84 seconds neeeeeeeeat numbers)
warden: every time a pet dies a warden gets a heal(1260 every 24 secs during meta rotation)
snb: siphoning strikes(meta skill) 1420 every light attack or heavy or full bar heal when killing something.
lets tally
sdk= avg heals per second: 136 health per sec but only in a burst once every 84 secs
ward: 52.5 per sec
snb: only a measly 1420 per sec if weaving correctly like I know you should boo
special bonus round.... but but this skill makes them better : (((((((( aka non meta rotations)
standard of but might debuff well yeah you got that but uptime is so low its twice during most regular vet trials( more like never because dk dps is in the gutter... Am I right bois hahahahahaha) still its a huge cost and its never for mitigation but its 15% or twelve idk dks suck
but but you got armor skills and things on the ward/sdk. you can run blur heals and tanky stuff to but we be talking meta... so again tally them up!!!!
nightblade everything
ward/dks nothing.
Yay
Again know the classes you are comparing. ANNNNNNNDDDDDDD
All numbers are pulled from fextralife because I'm to lazy to memorize all these worthless numbers to prove a point...
Good day sir.
I look at this from a Healer's perspective. When I have any Stamina builds in a group with me, usually the 1 class that I have to babysit the most are Stamblade. Stamden throws out Shrooms when their health get low, DK drops Dawnbreaker and Stamplar uses Repentance or BoL and they're fine. I haven't really run with Stam Sorcs in forever so I can't really comment on them much, although I'd say they're on par with Stamblade overall since Crit Surge and Leeching Strikes function similarly enough to one another in terms of healing and they both have Major Resistances naturally in their rotation so in theory, they should be similar enough.
Still, in application, I'd say in terms of PvE survivability it would be
Stamden >StamDK=Stamplar> Stamblade=StamSorcArgonian forever0 -
Heimpai✭✭✭✭✭Wildberryjack wrote: »Are these changes blanket or only in PvP? Cause if blanket it would be nice if games stopped ruining the PvE end because of the minority who PvP then whine when they get their butts beat.
This is because of PvE just like the shield nerfs were too but nice try0 -
Wildberryjack✭✭✭✭✭
✭Wildberryjack wrote: »Are these changes blanket or only in PvP? Cause if blanket it would be nice if games stopped ruining the PvE end because of the minority who PvP then whine when they get their butts beat.
This is because of PvE just like the shield nerfs were too but nice try
Oh? How so? If it is PvE what does it matter? Things like this affect no one when it's PvE but they do when it's PvP, so disagree it's because of PvE. Nice try.The purpose of art is washing the dust of daily life off our souls. ~Pablo Picasso2 -
templesus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Silver_Strider wrote: »Onefrkncrzypope wrote: »Silver_Strider wrote: »Onefrkncrzypope wrote: »Dracan_Fontom wrote: »MartiniDaniels wrote: »Uh oh, someone's ez mode is getting turned off!
LMAO NB ez mode. NB is most skill-depenBLAINE1245 wrote: »BLAINE1245 wrote: »A pungent smell permeates this thread, i believe this is the smell...of zerg.
Well howdy there feller, i just want to let you know that we don't take kindly to your types 'round here!
Zerg has no bearing on anything aforementioned. I don't play Cyrodiil except to earn my 50 transmute crystals. My play is almost entirely PVE (trials, dungeons etc.) with battlegrounds being a smaller portion.
Then you should know that nightblades have been top dps since the game was released, and they're trying to finally balance the class to make it even with the rest. Have some shame, and don't complain about a balance change when you've been top dps by a considerable margin since the release of the game.
There is absolutely no shame in playing a class specifically designed for a certain role. I don't care to tank or heal and have therefore decided upon this class for the sake of continuing the way I have played Oblivion, Morrowind and Skyrim. Nightblade is a powerful class and rightfully so given their obvious flaws in other aspects of combat such as survivability and sustainability.
Errr, wrong, cloak and siphoning as well as passives give Stamblade arguably the best Survivability and Sustain of all stam classes.
As for spam dizzying? Joke? Stamblade has the best spammable in the game with Surprise Attack.
Adapt.
Ok, what about magblades, they are clearly underhanded in PVP, and in PVE this nerf won't matter in stack.. so most obvious way to nerf nightblades is nerf of surprise attack, and not of grim focus.
This nerf is not about balance, it's about sales of necromancer.
Yea unfortunately Magblade in PvP is getting hit with a significant nerf when in all actuality it needs buffs. Hopefully they’ll see buffs as well.BLAINE1245 wrote: »BLAINE1245 wrote: »BLAINE1245 wrote: »A pungent smell permeates this thread, i believe this is the smell...of zerg.
Well howdy there feller, i just want to let you know that we don't take kindly to your types 'round here!
Zerg has no bearing on anything aforementioned. I don't play Cyrodiil except to earn my 50 transmute crystals. My play is almost entirely PVE (trials, dungeons etc.) with battlegrounds being a smaller portion.
Then you should know that nightblades have been top dps since the game was released, and they're trying to finally balance the class to make it even with the rest. Have some shame, and don't complain about a balance change when you've been top dps by a considerable margin since the release of the game.
There is absolutely no shame in playing a class specifically designed for a certain role. I don't care to tank or heal and have therefore decided upon this class for the sake of continuing the way I have played Oblivion, Morrowind and Skyrim. Nightblade is a powerful class and rightfully so given their obvious flaws in other aspects of combat such as survivability and sustainability.
Errr, wrong, cloak and siphoning as well as passives give Stamblade arguably the best Survivability and Sustain of all stam classes.
As for spam dizzying? Joke? Stamblade has the best spammable in the game with Surprise Attack.
Adapt.
I disagree. Cloak has no use in PVE (again what I predominantly play) and siphoning certainly helps but is exactly equal to skills of other classes ie: Daedric summoner and Daedric protection which combined increase health and stamina recovery as well as maximum health. Spammables? Also equivalent. Jabs?
Stamblade has siphoning and 15% stamina regen and health regen. Not sure what your point there is. And if it’s PvE, what classes have better survivability then Stamblade? Stamsorc is the only one I can think of with 100% uptime on major resolve/ward...other then that Stamblade gets it natively from their spammable wheras thenother classes have to use a non dps ability to get it. Everyone has vigor. Other morph of cloak heals. I’m not sure at all where your point is.
Every single magic class has better survivability than stambalde. Stamdens have better survivability. They get extra health passively, and every animal skill they use heals them as well as lotus with light or heavy attacks. Stamdk are built to be tanks, they are the definition of survivable. Stamplars are have their resource sustain built onto their resistance buff, not to mention minor protection with their jabs.
Uhh SDK only has the spell resist passive. So no. Absolutely wrong. Warden observation is also incorrect. Before comparing classes you will need more experience with them.
Can you give a single reason other than, "You're wrong" because I can name a few reasons as to why YOUR statement is wrong. For starters, StamDK get a buff to their survivability every time they drop an Ultimate since the Battle Roar Passive restores a good chunk of Health and Resources each time and the extra Spell Resistance still makes them more survivable by default. Stamden does get health back passively just for using their Animal Companion skills, which also triggers their Minor Toughness passive, meaning they naturally have more health than NB, while also having Major Mending, meaning their heals are also stronger than that of a NB.
So, tell me, what exactly is "wrong" with @Dracan_Fontom statement?
welp, PvE meta yes?
Passive damage mitigation:
sdk: 3.3k ish spell resit
warden: none
sblade: major ward/resolve plus for heavy armor(won't count it) for six seconds after cast
lets average it out????
warden = no resists
dk 3.3 spell only
snb = (depending on your rotation) either 100% uptime to as low as 0%... so either number one on everything or basically tied on spell and still win on physical or you haven't surprised attack recently so most likely dead....
healing during meta rotation:
sdk full bar heal every 84 secs but no heal other than that...(250/3 = 83.33333 sooo 84 seconds neeeeeeeeat numbers)
warden: every time a pet dies a warden gets a heal(1260 every 24 secs during meta rotation)
snb: siphoning strikes(meta skill) 1420 every light attack or heavy or full bar heal when killing something.
lets tally
sdk= avg heals per second: 136 health per sec but only in a burst once every 84 secs
ward: 52.5 per sec
snb: only a measly 1420 per sec if weaving correctly like I know you should boo
special bonus round.... but but this skill makes them better : (((((((( aka non meta rotations)
standard of but might debuff well yeah you got that but uptime is so low its twice during most regular vet trials( more like never because dk dps is in the gutter... Am I right bois hahahahahaha) still its a huge cost and its never for mitigation but its 15% or twelve idk dks suck
but but you got armor skills and things on the ward/sdk. you can run blur heals and tanky stuff to but we be talking meta... so again tally them up!!!!
nightblade everything
ward/dks nothing.
Yay
Again know the classes you are comparing. ANNNNNNNDDDDDDD
All numbers are pulled from fextralife because I'm to lazy to memorize all these worthless numbers to prove a point...
Good day sir.
I look at this from a Healer's perspective. When I have any Stamina builds in a group with me, usually the 1 class that I have to babysit the most are Stamblade. Stamden throws out Shrooms when their health get low, DK drops Dawnbreaker and Stamplar uses Repentance or BoL and they're fine. I haven't really run with Stam Sorcs in forever so I can't really comment on them much, although I'd say they're on par with Stamblade overall since Crit Surge and Leeching Strikes function similarly enough to one another in terms of healing and they both have Major Resistances naturally in their rotation so in theory, they should be similar enough.
Still, in application, I'd say in terms of PvE survivability it would be
Stamden >StamDK=Stamplar> Stamblade=StamSorc
Stamplar use BoL? What game is this?1 -
Onefrkncrzypope✭✭✭✭✭
✭Silver_Strider wrote: »Onefrkncrzypope wrote: »Silver_Strider wrote: »Onefrkncrzypope wrote: »Dracan_Fontom wrote: »MartiniDaniels wrote: »Uh oh, someone's ez mode is getting turned off!
LMAO NB ez mode. NB is most skill-depenBLAINE1245 wrote: »BLAINE1245 wrote: »A pungent smell permeates this thread, i believe this is the smell...of zerg.
Well howdy there feller, i just want to let you know that we don't take kindly to your types 'round here!
Zerg has no bearing on anything aforementioned. I don't play Cyrodiil except to earn my 50 transmute crystals. My play is almost entirely PVE (trials, dungeons etc.) with battlegrounds being a smaller portion.
Then you should know that nightblades have been top dps since the game was released, and they're trying to finally balance the class to make it even with the rest. Have some shame, and don't complain about a balance change when you've been top dps by a considerable margin since the release of the game.
There is absolutely no shame in playing a class specifically designed for a certain role. I don't care to tank or heal and have therefore decided upon this class for the sake of continuing the way I have played Oblivion, Morrowind and Skyrim. Nightblade is a powerful class and rightfully so given their obvious flaws in other aspects of combat such as survivability and sustainability.
Errr, wrong, cloak and siphoning as well as passives give Stamblade arguably the best Survivability and Sustain of all stam classes.
As for spam dizzying? Joke? Stamblade has the best spammable in the game with Surprise Attack.
Adapt.
Ok, what about magblades, they are clearly underhanded in PVP, and in PVE this nerf won't matter in stack.. so most obvious way to nerf nightblades is nerf of surprise attack, and not of grim focus.
This nerf is not about balance, it's about sales of necromancer.
Yea unfortunately Magblade in PvP is getting hit with a significant nerf when in all actuality it needs buffs. Hopefully they’ll see buffs as well.BLAINE1245 wrote: »BLAINE1245 wrote: »BLAINE1245 wrote: »A pungent smell permeates this thread, i believe this is the smell...of zerg.
Well howdy there feller, i just want to let you know that we don't take kindly to your types 'round here!
Zerg has no bearing on anything aforementioned. I don't play Cyrodiil except to earn my 50 transmute crystals. My play is almost entirely PVE (trials, dungeons etc.) with battlegrounds being a smaller portion.
Then you should know that nightblades have been top dps since the game was released, and they're trying to finally balance the class to make it even with the rest. Have some shame, and don't complain about a balance change when you've been top dps by a considerable margin since the release of the game.
There is absolutely no shame in playing a class specifically designed for a certain role. I don't care to tank or heal and have therefore decided upon this class for the sake of continuing the way I have played Oblivion, Morrowind and Skyrim. Nightblade is a powerful class and rightfully so given their obvious flaws in other aspects of combat such as survivability and sustainability.
Errr, wrong, cloak and siphoning as well as passives give Stamblade arguably the best Survivability and Sustain of all stam classes.
As for spam dizzying? Joke? Stamblade has the best spammable in the game with Surprise Attack.
Adapt.
I disagree. Cloak has no use in PVE (again what I predominantly play) and siphoning certainly helps but is exactly equal to skills of other classes ie: Daedric summoner and Daedric protection which combined increase health and stamina recovery as well as maximum health. Spammables? Also equivalent. Jabs?
Stamblade has siphoning and 15% stamina regen and health regen. Not sure what your point there is. And if it’s PvE, what classes have better survivability then Stamblade? Stamsorc is the only one I can think of with 100% uptime on major resolve/ward...other then that Stamblade gets it natively from their spammable wheras thenother classes have to use a non dps ability to get it. Everyone has vigor. Other morph of cloak heals. I’m not sure at all where your point is.
Every single magic class has better survivability than stambalde. Stamdens have better survivability. They get extra health passively, and every animal skill they use heals them as well as lotus with light or heavy attacks. Stamdk are built to be tanks, they are the definition of survivable. Stamplars are have their resource sustain built onto their resistance buff, not to mention minor protection with their jabs.
Uhh SDK only has the spell resist passive. So no. Absolutely wrong. Warden observation is also incorrect. Before comparing classes you will need more experience with them.
Can you give a single reason other than, "You're wrong" because I can name a few reasons as to why YOUR statement is wrong. For starters, StamDK get a buff to their survivability every time they drop an Ultimate since the Battle Roar Passive restores a good chunk of Health and Resources each time and the extra Spell Resistance still makes them more survivable by default. Stamden does get health back passively just for using their Animal Companion skills, which also triggers their Minor Toughness passive, meaning they naturally have more health than NB, while also having Major Mending, meaning their heals are also stronger than that of a NB.
So, tell me, what exactly is "wrong" with @Dracan_Fontom statement?
welp, PvE meta yes?
Passive damage mitigation:
sdk: 3.3k ish spell resit
warden: none
sblade: major ward/resolve plus for heavy armor(won't count it) for six seconds after cast
lets average it out????
warden = no resists
dk 3.3 spell only
snb = (depending on your rotation) either 100% uptime to as low as 0%... so either number one on everything or basically tied on spell and still win on physical or you haven't surprised attack recently so most likely dead....
healing during meta rotation:
sdk full bar heal every 84 secs but no heal other than that...(250/3 = 83.33333 sooo 84 seconds neeeeeeeeat numbers)
warden: every time a pet dies a warden gets a heal(1260 every 24 secs during meta rotation)
snb: siphoning strikes(meta skill) 1420 every light attack or heavy or full bar heal when killing something.
lets tally
sdk= avg heals per second: 136 health per sec but only in a burst once every 84 secs
ward: 52.5 per sec
snb: only a measly 1420 per sec if weaving correctly like I know you should boo
special bonus round.... but but this skill makes them better : (((((((( aka non meta rotations)
standard of but might debuff well yeah you got that but uptime is so low its twice during most regular vet trials( more like never because dk dps is in the gutter... Am I right bois hahahahahaha) still its a huge cost and its never for mitigation but its 15% or twelve idk dks suck
but but you got armor skills and things on the ward/sdk. you can run blur heals and tanky stuff to but we be talking meta... so again tally them up!!!!
nightblade everything
ward/dks nothing.
Yay
Again know the classes you are comparing. ANNNNNNNDDDDDDD
All numbers are pulled from fextralife because I'm to lazy to memorize all these worthless numbers to prove a point...
Good day sir.
I look at this from a Healer's perspective. When I have any Stamina builds in a group with me, usually the 1 class that I have to babysit the most are Stamblade. Stamden throws out Shrooms when their health get low, DK drops Dawnbreaker and Stamplar uses Repentance or BoL and they're fine. I haven't really run with Stam Sorcs in forever so I can't really comment on them much, although I'd say they're on par with Stamblade overall since Crit Surge and Leeching Strikes function similarly enough to one another in terms of healing and they both have Major Resistances naturally in their rotation so in theory, they should be similar enough.
Still, in application, I'd say in terms of PvE survivability it would be
Stamden >StamDK=Stamplar> Stamblade=StamSorc
Why they no vigor? Again it's a meta analysis on what the classes has to offer.
Surge doesn't equal strikes.
Dawnbreaker isn't a heal is only up after ulti gained and isn't classed based.(why is everyone argument trying to make this sound like a bol??? It's up only every 50 secs or more)
If there is no dead repentance is worthless.
Stamplar's focus on the other hand is very nice.
I mean you can't base class balance on a eye balling.
I'm not saying I have the most hours or anything but I average around a 1000 hours on each of the 10 dps toons. Some alot less some alot more. I've done high end and low end and even train new players on these classes(not the Mastermind of any class).
I don't base my beliefs on the subjective. I wrote out a comparison that was fair and accurate. If anyone after wants to talk about what I missed in a class based comparison sure I will reply but just saying you think differently because like you know, isn't going to get a response.
Y'all have a nice morning, may your coffee be strong and you coworkers be quiet eaters.
-Immortal Redeemer-
-Extinguisher of Flames-
-Gryphon Heart-
-Potato-
If I edited a post, it was for spelling. It is always because of spelling....0 -
Sanguinor2✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
Stamplar use BoL? What game is this?
Must be the famous Pelinal, shacklebreaker stamplar pve dps
Politeness is respecting others.
Courage is doing what is fair.
Modesty is speaking of oneself without vanity.
Self control is keeping calm even when anger rises.
Sincerity is expressing oneself without concealing ones thoughts.
Honor is keeping ones word.0 -
Undefwun✭✭✭✭✭Wildberryjack wrote: »Are these changes blanket or only in PvP? Cause if blanket it would be nice if games stopped ruining the PvE end because of the minority who PvP then whine when they get their butts beat.
Sorry... nope. This is a PvE inspired change, because both stam and mag NBs are top tier DPS.
Stamblades will be fine in PvP without Minor Beserk.
Magblade on the other hand... very few of those around these days. That nerf is likely to hurt them even more. I am still trying to keep the dream alive, but it's rough out there.
Before I stomp my feet though, lets see what other changes there will be on the PTSDrank Sinatra Sr - PvP Magblade - DC
Juggathot - PvP Mag Sorc - DC
Jedi Mind Crits - PvP A-Hole Bowblade - DC
Dollar Store Thor - PvP Stamplar - DC
The Bone Sumpremacy - baby Stamcro - DC
Wârden Freeman - PvP Stamden - DC (on hold)
Lauryn Heal - PvE Magplar DPS - DC
Lil Orc Chop - PvP Stam Sorc - EP
Hamuel L Jackson - PvE DPS & PvP Stam DK - EP
Chandler Bling - PvP Magden - EP
Mahalia Lightborn - exiled crafting toon - cos you know, she's AD0 -
Juhasow✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭BLAINE1245 wrote: »I know these are "rumored" and are still in the works and debate prior to going live. I created a forum account due to Wrathstone going live after having played this game for well over a year. I play one and only one character. A Khajiit Stamina Nightblade. This combination has been hindered (nerfed) via countless updates. The most concerning prior to now being the Wrathstone update which entirely eliminated bonus damage from stealth (the major perk of being Khajiit when other races have much better recovery and resources) as well as converting our 8% critical chance to a 10% critical damage bonus. Critical damage yields zero gain without a high chance of critical hits. Now the nightblade also loses Snipe (I know there's regular complaints but it's certainly on par with Take Flight and Endless Fury). There's also the whirlwind skill which is proposed to lose it's execute as well as grim focus losing the 8% bonus to all damage. I've played this game and only this game with this single character for all of my 50+ plus days played. These proposed changes will truly ruin my experience and destroy the way I enjoy playing my character daily.
Ok there is lot of misinformation here. First khajiit actually dod not lost stealth damage passive. He still have it hidden as 10% critical dmg bonus. Keep in mind that attacks from stealth have 100% crit chance sop that previous 8% crit chance was basically not affecting attacks from stealth at all when current 10% crit dmg does so when it comes to attack from stealth kahjit did not lost additional damage to it completly.
Second misconception is fact that You need insanely high crit chance for that 10% crit dmg bonus to be usefull. This is also not entirely true because it depends not only from crit chance but also from base crit ratio and compared to 8% crit chance that 10% crit damage even on builds with low crit and low crit damage works pretty similarly to 8% crit chance with the damage difference being under 1%. Damage difference is barely noticable. If You dont belive me You can check one of the threads about that subject where many people made comparisions of how certain base crit chances are affected by khajit change.
Nighblabe is not "loosing snipe" lol. Snipe is not nightblade exclusive ability so it's silly to say certain class may loose it. Snipe is just getting slighttly lowered dmg and cast time to avoid desynching few snipes at once but it'll be still most propably very effective tool. fact that snipe will now get minor defile instead of major may actually make stamblades in PvP even stronger with that ability because now they'll have source of major and minor defile being able to almost completly stop someone from healing.
Steel tornado is also not stamblade exclusive ability and as it is it's simply too effective. Fact that it's fun for You to use it doesnt mean it's fun for other people that You can be very effective by mashing brainlesly 1 button wheter those people will be enemies in PvP or allies in PvE it may be concering for them to see that 1 ability can yield so much power when their kits not always allow for similar things.
As for minor berserk well it's hard not to notice that nightblades had it coming. When 1 class shines in both PvE and PvP for too long it's kinda obvious sooner or later nerfs will come. We''l see how things will go with that minor berser change and with other changes. it's still fresh info and we''l be able to see bigger picture when Elsweyr hits PTS.
3 -
Sirona_Starr✭✭✭✭✭BLAINE1245 wrote: »A pungent smell permeates this thread, i believe this is the smell...of zerg.
Well howdy there feller, i just want to let you know that we don't take kindly to your types 'round here!
Zerg has no bearing on anything aforementioned. I don't play Cyrodiil except to earn my 50 transmute crystals. My play is almost entirely PVE (trials, dungeons etc.) with battlegrounds being a smaller portion.
I believe the absolutely WRONG approach, which has been going on since Morrowind (I think) is to nerf. The better approach, and therefore more happy players is to enhance skills - aka counter skills - find balance through enhancing each race/class toolbox rather than nerf into the dirt........ nerf always = less....... provide enhanced always = more........0 -
Jhalin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭BLAINE1245 wrote: »I know these are "rumored" and are still in the works and debate prior to going live. I created a forum account due to Wrathstone going live after having played this game for well over a year. I play one and only one character. A Khajiit Stamina Nightblade. This combination has been hindered (nerfed) via countless updates. The most concerning prior to now being the Wrathstone update which entirely eliminated bonus damage from stealth (the major perk of being Khajiit when other races have much better recovery and resources) as well as converting our 8% critical chance to a 10% critical damage bonus. Critical damage yields zero gain without a high chance of critical hits. Now the nightblade also loses Snipe (I know there's regular complaints but it's certainly on par with Take Flight and Endless Fury). There's also the whirlwind skill which is proposed to lose it's execute as well as grim focus losing the 8% bonus to all damage. I've played this game and only this game with this single character for all of my 50+ plus days played. These proposed changes will truly ruin my experience and destroy the way I enjoy playing my character daily.
Ok there is lot of misinformation here. First khajiit actually dod not lost stealth damage passive. He still have it hidden as 10% critical dmg bonus. Keep in mind that attacks from stealth have 100% crit chance sop that previous 8% crit chance was basically not affecting attacks from stealth at all when current 10% crit dmg does so when it comes to attack from stealth kahjit did not lost additional damage to it completly.
Second misconception is fact that You need insanely high crit chance for that 10% crit dmg bonus to be usefull. This is also not entirely true because it depends not only from crit chance but also from base crit ratio and compared to 8% crit chance that 10% crit damage even on builds with low crit and low crit damage works pretty similarly to 8% crit chance with the damage difference being under 1%. Damage difference is barely noticable. If You dont belive me You can check one of the threads about that subject where many people made comparisions of how certain base crit chances are affected by khajit change.
Nighblabe is not "loosing snipe" lol. Snipe is not nightblade exclusive ability so it's silly to say certain class may loose it. Snipe is just getting slighttly lowered dmg and cast time to avoid desynching few snipes at once but it'll be still most propably very effective tool. fact that snipe will now get minor defile instead of major may actually make stamblades in PvP even stronger with that ability because now they'll have source of major and minor defile being able to almost completly stop someone from healing.
Steel tornado is also not stamblade exclusive ability and as it is it's simply too effective. Fact that it's fun for You to use it doesnt mean it's fun for other people that You can be very effective by mashing brainlesly 1 button wheter those people will be enemies in PvP or allies in PvE it may be concering for them to see that 1 ability can yield so much power when their kits not always allow for similar things.
As for minor berserk well it's hard not to notice that nightblades had it coming. When 1 class shines in both PvE and PvP for too long it's kinda obvious sooner or later nerfs will come. We''l see how things will go with that minor berser change and with other changes. it's still fresh info and we''l be able to see bigger picture when Elsweyr hits PTS.
Stamden and stamDK and stamDen all parse within 1k of stamblade, with more utility in groups.
Magplar parses the same as magblade with more utility, magSorc slightly lower with more utility.
They aren’t overperforming, they aren’t OP. People are just stuck on this inane myth. NBs have zero group utility as a damage dealer, and so much less than any other class in any other role. You’d never use a NB healer in a score run, you’d never run a NB tank, they don’t offer ANYTHING another class can’t do better.
They didn’t need any nerfs. If anything they need buffs to their group utility, because as a class they have none right now.3 -
Vapirko✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭This right here is PvP in a nutshell. Players who have been playing for less than two months, spamming spin to win, abusing damage from stealth and snipe lagging people.
Welcome to ESO friend, classes get nerfed, these skills have been needing a balance pass for a long time, and NB single target damage is out of control. They’ve enjoyed years of barely being touched, but all classes have lost something great. Sorry you’ll have to learn how to use the rest of your skills.Edited by Vapirko on April 1, 2019 2:36AM4 -
templesus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭BLAINE1245 wrote: »I know these are "rumored" and are still in the works and debate prior to going live. I created a forum account due to Wrathstone going live after having played this game for well over a year. I play one and only one character. A Khajiit Stamina Nightblade. This combination has been hindered (nerfed) via countless updates. The most concerning prior to now being the Wrathstone update which entirely eliminated bonus damage from stealth (the major perk of being Khajiit when other races have much better recovery and resources) as well as converting our 8% critical chance to a 10% critical damage bonus. Critical damage yields zero gain without a high chance of critical hits. Now the nightblade also loses Snipe (I know there's regular complaints but it's certainly on par with Take Flight and Endless Fury). There's also the whirlwind skill which is proposed to lose it's execute as well as grim focus losing the 8% bonus to all damage. I've played this game and only this game with this single character for all of my 50+ plus days played. These proposed changes will truly ruin my experience and destroy the way I enjoy playing my character daily.
Ok there is lot of misinformation here. First khajiit actually dod not lost stealth damage passive. He still have it hidden as 10% critical dmg bonus. Keep in mind that attacks from stealth have 100% crit chance sop that previous 8% crit chance was basically not affecting attacks from stealth at all when current 10% crit dmg does so when it comes to attack from stealth kahjit did not lost additional damage to it completly.
Second misconception is fact that You need insanely high crit chance for that 10% crit dmg bonus to be usefull. This is also not entirely true because it depends not only from crit chance but also from base crit ratio and compared to 8% crit chance that 10% crit damage even on builds with low crit and low crit damage works pretty similarly to 8% crit chance with the damage difference being under 1%. Damage difference is barely noticable. If You dont belive me You can check one of the threads about that subject where many people made comparisions of how certain base crit chances are affected by khajit change.
Nighblabe is not "loosing snipe" lol. Snipe is not nightblade exclusive ability so it's silly to say certain class may loose it. Snipe is just getting slighttly lowered dmg and cast time to avoid desynching few snipes at once but it'll be still most propably very effective tool. fact that snipe will now get minor defile instead of major may actually make stamblades in PvP even stronger with that ability because now they'll have source of major and minor defile being able to almost completly stop someone from healing.
Steel tornado is also not stamblade exclusive ability and as it is it's simply too effective. Fact that it's fun for You to use it doesnt mean it's fun for other people that You can be very effective by mashing brainlesly 1 button wheter those people will be enemies in PvP or allies in PvE it may be concering for them to see that 1 ability can yield so much power when their kits not always allow for similar things.
As for minor berserk well it's hard not to notice that nightblades had it coming. When 1 class shines in both PvE and PvP for too long it's kinda obvious sooner or later nerfs will come. We''l see how things will go with that minor berser change and with other changes. it's still fresh info and we''l be able to see bigger picture when Elsweyr hits PTS.
Stamden and stamDK and stamDen all parse within 1k of stamblade, with more utility in groups.
Magplar parses the same as magblade with more utility, magSorc slightly lower with more utility.
They aren’t overperforming, they aren’t OP. People are just stuck on this inane myth. NBs have zero group utility as a damage dealer, and so much less than any other class in any other role. You’d never use a NB healer in a score run, you’d never run a NB tank, they don’t offer ANYTHING another class can’t do better.
They didn’t need any nerfs. If anything they need buffs to their group utility, because as a class they have none right now.
“NBs have zero group utility”
So minor savagery isn’t group utility? Major Slayer isn’t group utility? You don’t know what you’re talking about.
Stamblade(Minor savagery+Ability to run war machine) has more group utility then stamplar(minor fracture) stamdk(Minor brutality) and stamsorc(Atro counts I guess?) the only class with on par utility is, shocker, the class right below it in DPS, stamden(minor toughness and ability to run war machine).
No stamplar cannot run war machine because empowering is a significant DPS loss over ballista. No Liko’s stamsorc pulling 74k without raid buffs does not mean stamsorc is better than Stamblade because that is for optimized groups only.
You have no idea what you’re talking about, I can’t even believe you said that StamDk parses 1k shy of Stamblade, or even a Stamden for that matter, it’s absolute blasphemy. Please stop spreading misinformation on the forums.Edited by templesus on April 1, 2019 3:05AM1 -
Jhalin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭This right here is PvP in a nutshell. Players who have been playing for less than two months, spamming spin to win, abusing damage from stealth and snipe lagging people.
Welcome to ESO friend, classes get nerfed, these skills have been needing a balance pass for a long time, and NB single target damage is out of control. They’ve enjoyed years of barely being touched, but all classes have lost something great. Sorry you’ll have to learn how to use the rest of your skills.
Do you even read the patch notes? NBs get hit with just as many nerfs as everyone else
They haven’t gotten a genuine buff since Morrowind, unless you want to count the fix of Grim Focus (but I wouldn’t since it also nerfed the usability between nearby pulls in the process)
Edit: Not to mention if you actually kept up with the top players, you’d know NB is parsing within 1k dps of any other class, hardly anywhere close to “out of control”Edited by Jhalin on April 1, 2019 2:49AM3 -
John_Falstaff✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Onefrkncrzypope wrote: »Silver_Strider wrote: »Onefrkncrzypope wrote: »Silver_Strider wrote: »Onefrkncrzypope wrote: »Dracan_Fontom wrote: »MartiniDaniels wrote: »Uh oh, someone's ez mode is getting turned off!
LMAO NB ez mode. NB is most skill-depenBLAINE1245 wrote: »BLAINE1245 wrote: »A pungent smell permeates this thread, i believe this is the smell...of zerg.
Well howdy there feller, i just want to let you know that we don't take kindly to your types 'round here!
Zerg has no bearing on anything aforementioned. I don't play Cyrodiil except to earn my 50 transmute crystals. My play is almost entirely PVE (trials, dungeons etc.) with battlegrounds being a smaller portion.
Then you should know that nightblades have been top dps since the game was released, and they're trying to finally balance the class to make it even with the rest. Have some shame, and don't complain about a balance change when you've been top dps by a considerable margin since the release of the game.
There is absolutely no shame in playing a class specifically designed for a certain role. I don't care to tank or heal and have therefore decided upon this class for the sake of continuing the way I have played Oblivion, Morrowind and Skyrim. Nightblade is a powerful class and rightfully so given their obvious flaws in other aspects of combat such as survivability and sustainability.
Errr, wrong, cloak and siphoning as well as passives give Stamblade arguably the best Survivability and Sustain of all stam classes.
As for spam dizzying? Joke? Stamblade has the best spammable in the game with Surprise Attack.
Adapt.
Ok, what about magblades, they are clearly underhanded in PVP, and in PVE this nerf won't matter in stack.. so most obvious way to nerf nightblades is nerf of surprise attack, and not of grim focus.
This nerf is not about balance, it's about sales of necromancer.
Yea unfortunately Magblade in PvP is getting hit with a significant nerf when in all actuality it needs buffs. Hopefully they’ll see buffs as well.BLAINE1245 wrote: »BLAINE1245 wrote: »BLAINE1245 wrote: »A pungent smell permeates this thread, i believe this is the smell...of zerg.
Well howdy there feller, i just want to let you know that we don't take kindly to your types 'round here!
Zerg has no bearing on anything aforementioned. I don't play Cyrodiil except to earn my 50 transmute crystals. My play is almost entirely PVE (trials, dungeons etc.) with battlegrounds being a smaller portion.
Then you should know that nightblades have been top dps since the game was released, and they're trying to finally balance the class to make it even with the rest. Have some shame, and don't complain about a balance change when you've been top dps by a considerable margin since the release of the game.
There is absolutely no shame in playing a class specifically designed for a certain role. I don't care to tank or heal and have therefore decided upon this class for the sake of continuing the way I have played Oblivion, Morrowind and Skyrim. Nightblade is a powerful class and rightfully so given their obvious flaws in other aspects of combat such as survivability and sustainability.
Errr, wrong, cloak and siphoning as well as passives give Stamblade arguably the best Survivability and Sustain of all stam classes.
As for spam dizzying? Joke? Stamblade has the best spammable in the game with Surprise Attack.
Adapt.
I disagree. Cloak has no use in PVE (again what I predominantly play) and siphoning certainly helps but is exactly equal to skills of other classes ie: Daedric summoner and Daedric protection which combined increase health and stamina recovery as well as maximum health. Spammables? Also equivalent. Jabs?
Stamblade has siphoning and 15% stamina regen and health regen. Not sure what your point there is. And if it’s PvE, what classes have better survivability then Stamblade? Stamsorc is the only one I can think of with 100% uptime on major resolve/ward...other then that Stamblade gets it natively from their spammable wheras thenother classes have to use a non dps ability to get it. Everyone has vigor. Other morph of cloak heals. I’m not sure at all where your point is.
Every single magic class has better survivability than stambalde. Stamdens have better survivability. They get extra health passively, and every animal skill they use heals them as well as lotus with light or heavy attacks. Stamdk are built to be tanks, they are the definition of survivable. Stamplars are have their resource sustain built onto their resistance buff, not to mention minor protection with their jabs.
Uhh SDK only has the spell resist passive. So no. Absolutely wrong. Warden observation is also incorrect. Before comparing classes you will need more experience with them.
Can you give a single reason other than, "You're wrong" because I can name a few reasons as to why YOUR statement is wrong. For starters, StamDK get a buff to their survivability every time they drop an Ultimate since the Battle Roar Passive restores a good chunk of Health and Resources each time and the extra Spell Resistance still makes them more survivable by default. Stamden does get health back passively just for using their Animal Companion skills, which also triggers their Minor Toughness passive, meaning they naturally have more health than NB, while also having Major Mending, meaning their heals are also stronger than that of a NB.
So, tell me, what exactly is "wrong" with @Dracan_Fontom statement?
welp, PvE meta yes?
Passive damage mitigation:
sdk: 3.3k ish spell resit
warden: none
sblade: major ward/resolve plus for heavy armor(won't count it) for six seconds after cast
lets average it out????
warden = no resists
dk 3.3 spell only
snb = (depending on your rotation) either 100% uptime to as low as 0%... so either number one on everything or basically tied on spell and still win on physical or you haven't surprised attack recently so most likely dead....
healing during meta rotation:
sdk full bar heal every 84 secs but no heal other than that...(250/3 = 83.33333 sooo 84 seconds neeeeeeeeat numbers)
warden: every time a pet dies a warden gets a heal(1260 every 24 secs during meta rotation)
snb: siphoning strikes(meta skill) 1420 every light attack or heavy or full bar heal when killing something.
lets tally
sdk= avg heals per second: 136 health per sec but only in a burst once every 84 secs
ward: 52.5 per sec
snb: only a measly 1420 per sec if weaving correctly like I know you should boo
special bonus round.... but but this skill makes them better : (((((((( aka non meta rotations)
standard of but might debuff well yeah you got that but uptime is so low its twice during most regular vet trials( more like never because dk dps is in the gutter... Am I right bois hahahahahaha) still its a huge cost and its never for mitigation but its 15% or twelve idk dks suck
but but you got armor skills and things on the ward/sdk. you can run blur heals and tanky stuff to but we be talking meta... so again tally them up!!!!
nightblade everything
ward/dks nothing.
Yay
Again know the classes you are comparing. ANNNNNNNDDDDDDD
All numbers are pulled from fextralife because I'm to lazy to memorize all these worthless numbers to prove a point...
Good day sir.
I look at this from a Healer's perspective. When I have any Stamina builds in a group with me, usually the 1 class that I have to babysit the most are Stamblade. Stamden throws out Shrooms when their health get low, DK drops Dawnbreaker and Stamplar uses Repentance or BoL and they're fine. I haven't really run with Stam Sorcs in forever so I can't really comment on them much, although I'd say they're on par with Stamblade overall since Crit Surge and Leeching Strikes function similarly enough to one another in terms of healing and they both have Major Resistances naturally in their rotation so in theory, they should be similar enough.
Still, in application, I'd say in terms of PvE survivability it would be
Stamden >StamDK=Stamplar> Stamblade=StamSorc
Why they no vigor? Again it's a meta analysis on what the classes has to offer.
Surge doesn't equal strikes.
Dawnbreaker isn't a heal is only up after ulti gained and isn't classed based.(why is everyone argument trying to make this sound like a bol??? It's up only every 50 secs or more)
If there is no dead repentance is worthless.
Stamplar's focus on the other hand is very nice.
I mean you can't base class balance on a eye balling.
I'm not saying I have the most hours or anything but I average around a 1000 hours on each of the 10 dps toons. Some alot less some alot more. I've done high end and low end and even train new players on these classes(not the Mastermind of any class).
I don't base my beliefs on the subjective. I wrote out a comparison that was fair and accurate. If anyone after wants to talk about what I missed in a class based comparison sure I will reply but just saying you think differently because like you know, isn't going to get a response.
Y'all have a nice morning, may your coffee be strong and you coworkers be quiet eaters.
I'm not sure about meta analysis, but you should actually play DK more often; in practical sense, for DK, ultimate doubles down as a burst heal. Yes, it isn't always available, but it's a very effective 'oh crap' button that replenishes all resources at once. Your comparison is neither fair nor accurate because it doesn't match actual use cases; healing over time numbers mean nothing because damage isn't coming uniformly. In real content, you sometimes need a burst heal, and one that isn't tied to doing light attacks of having bodies lying around is even more valuable. Much good your 1.5k health will do when you need more, and even less when you're kiting damage and don't have anything to hit with your light attack to get that meager amount.
In fact, when I tried NB (and I main stamDK) it was one of the first thing that unpleasantly surprised me - I'm instinctively used to the fact that ultimate heals me and gets me back in combative shape, lack of such emergency button on sNB makes me feel vulnerable. (Another unpleasant surprise was lack of flex spot on the bar I could use without nerfing my damage - sNB's damage is spread thin over too many skills to leave bar space for skills useful for situational survivability.)1 -
Bradyfjord✭✭✭✭✭I wish players would explore the array of choices the game offers. This game is designed so that there are complementary skills to any playstyle. If you need more crit then make a crit build. Your race/class choice will hit harder than most with that kind of build now.
ESO is built so you can't have it all. This is done through itemization, champion points, and skill choices. I am sympathetic to your statement, except that race/class is not the same static choice it is in other games.
I am almost finished with my Warden, and then I'll have at least one of every class at max level, though my CP is around 450 at this time.
I do think they should stop working on classes to make time for an update that properly fixes lag (at least somewhat) in places such as pvp.0 -
Silver_Strider✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Silver_Strider wrote: »Onefrkncrzypope wrote: »Silver_Strider wrote: »Onefrkncrzypope wrote: »Dracan_Fontom wrote: »MartiniDaniels wrote: »Uh oh, someone's ez mode is getting turned off!
LMAO NB ez mode. NB is most skill-depenBLAINE1245 wrote: »BLAINE1245 wrote: »A pungent smell permeates this thread, i believe this is the smell...of zerg.
Well howdy there feller, i just want to let you know that we don't take kindly to your types 'round here!
Zerg has no bearing on anything aforementioned. I don't play Cyrodiil except to earn my 50 transmute crystals. My play is almost entirely PVE (trials, dungeons etc.) with battlegrounds being a smaller portion.
Then you should know that nightblades have been top dps since the game was released, and they're trying to finally balance the class to make it even with the rest. Have some shame, and don't complain about a balance change when you've been top dps by a considerable margin since the release of the game.
There is absolutely no shame in playing a class specifically designed for a certain role. I don't care to tank or heal and have therefore decided upon this class for the sake of continuing the way I have played Oblivion, Morrowind and Skyrim. Nightblade is a powerful class and rightfully so given their obvious flaws in other aspects of combat such as survivability and sustainability.
Errr, wrong, cloak and siphoning as well as passives give Stamblade arguably the best Survivability and Sustain of all stam classes.
As for spam dizzying? Joke? Stamblade has the best spammable in the game with Surprise Attack.
Adapt.
Ok, what about magblades, they are clearly underhanded in PVP, and in PVE this nerf won't matter in stack.. so most obvious way to nerf nightblades is nerf of surprise attack, and not of grim focus.
This nerf is not about balance, it's about sales of necromancer.
Yea unfortunately Magblade in PvP is getting hit with a significant nerf when in all actuality it needs buffs. Hopefully they’ll see buffs as well.BLAINE1245 wrote: »BLAINE1245 wrote: »BLAINE1245 wrote: »A pungent smell permeates this thread, i believe this is the smell...of zerg.
Well howdy there feller, i just want to let you know that we don't take kindly to your types 'round here!
Zerg has no bearing on anything aforementioned. I don't play Cyrodiil except to earn my 50 transmute crystals. My play is almost entirely PVE (trials, dungeons etc.) with battlegrounds being a smaller portion.
Then you should know that nightblades have been top dps since the game was released, and they're trying to finally balance the class to make it even with the rest. Have some shame, and don't complain about a balance change when you've been top dps by a considerable margin since the release of the game.
There is absolutely no shame in playing a class specifically designed for a certain role. I don't care to tank or heal and have therefore decided upon this class for the sake of continuing the way I have played Oblivion, Morrowind and Skyrim. Nightblade is a powerful class and rightfully so given their obvious flaws in other aspects of combat such as survivability and sustainability.
Errr, wrong, cloak and siphoning as well as passives give Stamblade arguably the best Survivability and Sustain of all stam classes.
As for spam dizzying? Joke? Stamblade has the best spammable in the game with Surprise Attack.
Adapt.
I disagree. Cloak has no use in PVE (again what I predominantly play) and siphoning certainly helps but is exactly equal to skills of other classes ie: Daedric summoner and Daedric protection which combined increase health and stamina recovery as well as maximum health. Spammables? Also equivalent. Jabs?
Stamblade has siphoning and 15% stamina regen and health regen. Not sure what your point there is. And if it’s PvE, what classes have better survivability then Stamblade? Stamsorc is the only one I can think of with 100% uptime on major resolve/ward...other then that Stamblade gets it natively from their spammable wheras thenother classes have to use a non dps ability to get it. Everyone has vigor. Other morph of cloak heals. I’m not sure at all where your point is.
Every single magic class has better survivability than stambalde. Stamdens have better survivability. They get extra health passively, and every animal skill they use heals them as well as lotus with light or heavy attacks. Stamdk are built to be tanks, they are the definition of survivable. Stamplars are have their resource sustain built onto their resistance buff, not to mention minor protection with their jabs.
Uhh SDK only has the spell resist passive. So no. Absolutely wrong. Warden observation is also incorrect. Before comparing classes you will need more experience with them.
Can you give a single reason other than, "You're wrong" because I can name a few reasons as to why YOUR statement is wrong. For starters, StamDK get a buff to their survivability every time they drop an Ultimate since the Battle Roar Passive restores a good chunk of Health and Resources each time and the extra Spell Resistance still makes them more survivable by default. Stamden does get health back passively just for using their Animal Companion skills, which also triggers their Minor Toughness passive, meaning they naturally have more health than NB, while also having Major Mending, meaning their heals are also stronger than that of a NB.
So, tell me, what exactly is "wrong" with @Dracan_Fontom statement?
welp, PvE meta yes?
Passive damage mitigation:
sdk: 3.3k ish spell resit
warden: none
sblade: major ward/resolve plus for heavy armor(won't count it) for six seconds after cast
lets average it out????
warden = no resists
dk 3.3 spell only
snb = (depending on your rotation) either 100% uptime to as low as 0%... so either number one on everything or basically tied on spell and still win on physical or you haven't surprised attack recently so most likely dead....
healing during meta rotation:
sdk full bar heal every 84 secs but no heal other than that...(250/3 = 83.33333 sooo 84 seconds neeeeeeeeat numbers)
warden: every time a pet dies a warden gets a heal(1260 every 24 secs during meta rotation)
snb: siphoning strikes(meta skill) 1420 every light attack or heavy or full bar heal when killing something.
lets tally
sdk= avg heals per second: 136 health per sec but only in a burst once every 84 secs
ward: 52.5 per sec
snb: only a measly 1420 per sec if weaving correctly like I know you should boo
special bonus round.... but but this skill makes them better : (((((((( aka non meta rotations)
standard of but might debuff well yeah you got that but uptime is so low its twice during most regular vet trials( more like never because dk dps is in the gutter... Am I right bois hahahahahaha) still its a huge cost and its never for mitigation but its 15% or twelve idk dks suck
but but you got armor skills and things on the ward/sdk. you can run blur heals and tanky stuff to but we be talking meta... so again tally them up!!!!
nightblade everything
ward/dks nothing.
Yay
Again know the classes you are comparing. ANNNNNNNDDDDDDD
All numbers are pulled from fextralife because I'm to lazy to memorize all these worthless numbers to prove a point...
Good day sir.
I look at this from a Healer's perspective. When I have any Stamina builds in a group with me, usually the 1 class that I have to babysit the most are Stamblade. Stamden throws out Shrooms when their health get low, DK drops Dawnbreaker and Stamplar uses Repentance or BoL and they're fine. I haven't really run with Stam Sorcs in forever so I can't really comment on them much, although I'd say they're on par with Stamblade overall since Crit Surge and Leeching Strikes function similarly enough to one another in terms of healing and they both have Major Resistances naturally in their rotation so in theory, they should be similar enough.
Still, in application, I'd say in terms of PvE survivability it would be
Stamden > StamDK=Stamplar > Stamblade=StamSorc
Stamplar use BoL? What game is this?
I'm just saying in terms of class opinions since all classes have access to Vigor, I purposefully excluded it as it doesn't relate to class based actions in terms of survivability. As for why BoL, your guess is as good as mine as to why a Stamplar would use it in PvE but most likely reason being they're a PvP toon just farming for X set and are too lazy to switch their skills/sets around or whatever. Point was only to point out this option as a class based heal that they have available to themOnefrkncrzypope wrote: »Silver_Strider wrote: »Onefrkncrzypope wrote: »Silver_Strider wrote: »Onefrkncrzypope wrote: »Dracan_Fontom wrote: »MartiniDaniels wrote: »Uh oh, someone's ez mode is getting turned off!
LMAO NB ez mode. NB is most skill-depenBLAINE1245 wrote: »BLAINE1245 wrote: »A pungent smell permeates this thread, i believe this is the smell...of zerg.
Well howdy there feller, i just want to let you know that we don't take kindly to your types 'round here!
Zerg has no bearing on anything aforementioned. I don't play Cyrodiil except to earn my 50 transmute crystals. My play is almost entirely PVE (trials, dungeons etc.) with battlegrounds being a smaller portion.
Then you should know that nightblades have been top dps since the game was released, and they're trying to finally balance the class to make it even with the rest. Have some shame, and don't complain about a balance change when you've been top dps by a considerable margin since the release of the game.
There is absolutely no shame in playing a class specifically designed for a certain role. I don't care to tank or heal and have therefore decided upon this class for the sake of continuing the way I have played Oblivion, Morrowind and Skyrim. Nightblade is a powerful class and rightfully so given their obvious flaws in other aspects of combat such as survivability and sustainability.
Errr, wrong, cloak and siphoning as well as passives give Stamblade arguably the best Survivability and Sustain of all stam classes.
As for spam dizzying? Joke? Stamblade has the best spammable in the game with Surprise Attack.
Adapt.
Ok, what about magblades, they are clearly underhanded in PVP, and in PVE this nerf won't matter in stack.. so most obvious way to nerf nightblades is nerf of surprise attack, and not of grim focus.
This nerf is not about balance, it's about sales of necromancer.
Yea unfortunately Magblade in PvP is getting hit with a significant nerf when in all actuality it needs buffs. Hopefully they’ll see buffs as well.BLAINE1245 wrote: »BLAINE1245 wrote: »BLAINE1245 wrote: »A pungent smell permeates this thread, i believe this is the smell...of zerg.
Well howdy there feller, i just want to let you know that we don't take kindly to your types 'round here!
Zerg has no bearing on anything aforementioned. I don't play Cyrodiil except to earn my 50 transmute crystals. My play is almost entirely PVE (trials, dungeons etc.) with battlegrounds being a smaller portion.
Then you should know that nightblades have been top dps since the game was released, and they're trying to finally balance the class to make it even with the rest. Have some shame, and don't complain about a balance change when you've been top dps by a considerable margin since the release of the game.
There is absolutely no shame in playing a class specifically designed for a certain role. I don't care to tank or heal and have therefore decided upon this class for the sake of continuing the way I have played Oblivion, Morrowind and Skyrim. Nightblade is a powerful class and rightfully so given their obvious flaws in other aspects of combat such as survivability and sustainability.
Errr, wrong, cloak and siphoning as well as passives give Stamblade arguably the best Survivability and Sustain of all stam classes.
As for spam dizzying? Joke? Stamblade has the best spammable in the game with Surprise Attack.
Adapt.
I disagree. Cloak has no use in PVE (again what I predominantly play) and siphoning certainly helps but is exactly equal to skills of other classes ie: Daedric summoner and Daedric protection which combined increase health and stamina recovery as well as maximum health. Spammables? Also equivalent. Jabs?
Stamblade has siphoning and 15% stamina regen and health regen. Not sure what your point there is. And if it’s PvE, what classes have better survivability then Stamblade? Stamsorc is the only one I can think of with 100% uptime on major resolve/ward...other then that Stamblade gets it natively from their spammable wheras thenother classes have to use a non dps ability to get it. Everyone has vigor. Other morph of cloak heals. I’m not sure at all where your point is.
Every single magic class has better survivability than stambalde. Stamdens have better survivability. They get extra health passively, and every animal skill they use heals them as well as lotus with light or heavy attacks. Stamdk are built to be tanks, they are the definition of survivable. Stamplars are have their resource sustain built onto their resistance buff, not to mention minor protection with their jabs.
Uhh SDK only has the spell resist passive. So no. Absolutely wrong. Warden observation is also incorrect. Before comparing classes you will need more experience with them.
Can you give a single reason other than, "You're wrong" because I can name a few reasons as to why YOUR statement is wrong. For starters, StamDK get a buff to their survivability every time they drop an Ultimate since the Battle Roar Passive restores a good chunk of Health and Resources each time and the extra Spell Resistance still makes them more survivable by default. Stamden does get health back passively just for using their Animal Companion skills, which also triggers their Minor Toughness passive, meaning they naturally have more health than NB, while also having Major Mending, meaning their heals are also stronger than that of a NB.
So, tell me, what exactly is "wrong" with @Dracan_Fontom statement?
welp, PvE meta yes?
Passive damage mitigation:
sdk: 3.3k ish spell resit
warden: none
sblade: major ward/resolve plus for heavy armor(won't count it) for six seconds after cast
lets average it out????
warden = no resists
dk 3.3 spell only
snb = (depending on your rotation) either 100% uptime to as low as 0%... so either number one on everything or basically tied on spell and still win on physical or you haven't surprised attack recently so most likely dead....
healing during meta rotation:
sdk full bar heal every 84 secs but no heal other than that...(250/3 = 83.33333 sooo 84 seconds neeeeeeeeat numbers)
warden: every time a pet dies a warden gets a heal(1260 every 24 secs during meta rotation)
snb: siphoning strikes(meta skill) 1420 every light attack or heavy or full bar heal when killing something.
lets tally
sdk= avg heals per second: 136 health per sec but only in a burst once every 84 secs
ward: 52.5 per sec
snb: only a measly 1420 per sec if weaving correctly like I know you should boo
special bonus round.... but but this skill makes them better : (((((((( aka non meta rotations)
standard of but might debuff well yeah you got that but uptime is so low its twice during most regular vet trials( more like never because dk dps is in the gutter... Am I right bois hahahahahaha) still its a huge cost and its never for mitigation but its 15% or twelve idk dks suck
but but you got armor skills and things on the ward/sdk. you can run blur heals and tanky stuff to but we be talking meta... so again tally them up!!!!
nightblade everything
ward/dks nothing.
Yay
Again know the classes you are comparing. ANNNNNNNDDDDDDD
All numbers are pulled from fextralife because I'm to lazy to memorize all these worthless numbers to prove a point...
Good day sir.
I look at this from a Healer's perspective. When I have any Stamina builds in a group with me, usually the 1 class that I have to babysit the most are Stamblade. Stamden throws out Shrooms when their health get low, DK drops Dawnbreaker and Stamplar uses Repentance or BoL and they're fine. I haven't really run with Stam Sorcs in forever so I can't really comment on them much, although I'd say they're on par with Stamblade overall since Crit Surge and Leeching Strikes function similarly enough to one another in terms of healing and they both have Major Resistances naturally in their rotation so in theory, they should be similar enough.
Still, in application, I'd say in terms of PvE survivability it would be
Stamden >StamDK=Stamplar> Stamblade=StamSorc
Why they no vigor? Again it's a meta analysis on what the classes has to offer.
Surge doesn't equal strikes.
Dawnbreaker isn't a heal is only up after ulti gained and isn't classed based.(why is everyone argument trying to make this sound like a bol??? It's up only every 50 secs or more)
If there is no dead repentance is worthless.
Stamplar's focus on the other hand is very nice.
I mean you can't base class balance on a eye balling.
I'm not saying I have the most hours or anything but I average around a 1000 hours on each of the 10 dps toons. Some alot less some alot more. I've done high end and low end and even train new players on these classes(not the Mastermind of any class).
I don't base my beliefs on the subjective. I wrote out a comparison that was fair and accurate. If anyone after wants to talk about what I missed in a class based comparison sure I will reply but just saying you think differently because like you know, isn't going to get a response.
Y'all have a nice morning, may your coffee be strong and you coworkers be quiet eaters.
Vigor is not a Class based ability, hence why I'm not mentioning it since all classes can use it.
I was NOT referring to Dawnbreaker in my DK example as a healing ability but referencing its use in conjunction with Battle Roar as a heal; and much like BoL, you aren't Spamming heals on yourself every 2 seconds only when you need them so for DK, if you have an Ultimate and need health, you're going to drop the ultimate immediately to get that heal. A NB might get more passive healing as a result of Leeching Strikes but when they need an "oh $#!%" heal, it's literally Vigor or bust. I only compare Crit Surge and Leeching Strikes because of how similarly they are in that they're both Heals over Time abilities (granted I'd say Crit Surge is more potent but whatever). However, when push comes to shove, both StamSorc and Stamblade are there using Vigor as their only real heal option.
I'm not saying that your assessment is wrong but in practical applications, it just doesn't work out the way you say it should. Just because a NB is getting back health every light attack doesn't necessarily mean their survivability is better than that of a Stamden or StamDK because those classes have options within them for those moments when survivability actually matters vs a NB which has nothing native to it and relies heavily on Vigor to pull it thru. I never take Vigor off my Bar on my Stamblade as its suicide to do so, whereas most other classes actually have some option in 1 form or another and while some aren't the greatest option (such as BoL on a Stamplar) it's better than nothing at all.
That's all I'm saying here.Argonian forever0 -
templesus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Silver_Strider wrote: »Silver_Strider wrote: »Onefrkncrzypope wrote: »Silver_Strider wrote: »Onefrkncrzypope wrote: »Dracan_Fontom wrote: »MartiniDaniels wrote: »Uh oh, someone's ez mode is getting turned off!
LMAO NB ez mode. NB is most skill-depenBLAINE1245 wrote: »BLAINE1245 wrote: »A pungent smell permeates this thread, i believe this is the smell...of zerg.
Well howdy there feller, i just want to let you know that we don't take kindly to your types 'round here!
Zerg has no bearing on anything aforementioned. I don't play Cyrodiil except to earn my 50 transmute crystals. My play is almost entirely PVE (trials, dungeons etc.) with battlegrounds being a smaller portion.
Then you should know that nightblades have been top dps since the game was released, and they're trying to finally balance the class to make it even with the rest. Have some shame, and don't complain about a balance change when you've been top dps by a considerable margin since the release of the game.
There is absolutely no shame in playing a class specifically designed for a certain role. I don't care to tank or heal and have therefore decided upon this class for the sake of continuing the way I have played Oblivion, Morrowind and Skyrim. Nightblade is a powerful class and rightfully so given their obvious flaws in other aspects of combat such as survivability and sustainability.
Errr, wrong, cloak and siphoning as well as passives give Stamblade arguably the best Survivability and Sustain of all stam classes.
As for spam dizzying? Joke? Stamblade has the best spammable in the game with Surprise Attack.
Adapt.
Ok, what about magblades, they are clearly underhanded in PVP, and in PVE this nerf won't matter in stack.. so most obvious way to nerf nightblades is nerf of surprise attack, and not of grim focus.
This nerf is not about balance, it's about sales of necromancer.
Yea unfortunately Magblade in PvP is getting hit with a significant nerf when in all actuality it needs buffs. Hopefully they’ll see buffs as well.BLAINE1245 wrote: »BLAINE1245 wrote: »BLAINE1245 wrote: »A pungent smell permeates this thread, i believe this is the smell...of zerg.
Well howdy there feller, i just want to let you know that we don't take kindly to your types 'round here!
Zerg has no bearing on anything aforementioned. I don't play Cyrodiil except to earn my 50 transmute crystals. My play is almost entirely PVE (trials, dungeons etc.) with battlegrounds being a smaller portion.
Then you should know that nightblades have been top dps since the game was released, and they're trying to finally balance the class to make it even with the rest. Have some shame, and don't complain about a balance change when you've been top dps by a considerable margin since the release of the game.
There is absolutely no shame in playing a class specifically designed for a certain role. I don't care to tank or heal and have therefore decided upon this class for the sake of continuing the way I have played Oblivion, Morrowind and Skyrim. Nightblade is a powerful class and rightfully so given their obvious flaws in other aspects of combat such as survivability and sustainability.
Errr, wrong, cloak and siphoning as well as passives give Stamblade arguably the best Survivability and Sustain of all stam classes.
As for spam dizzying? Joke? Stamblade has the best spammable in the game with Surprise Attack.
Adapt.
I disagree. Cloak has no use in PVE (again what I predominantly play) and siphoning certainly helps but is exactly equal to skills of other classes ie: Daedric summoner and Daedric protection which combined increase health and stamina recovery as well as maximum health. Spammables? Also equivalent. Jabs?
Stamblade has siphoning and 15% stamina regen and health regen. Not sure what your point there is. And if it’s PvE, what classes have better survivability then Stamblade? Stamsorc is the only one I can think of with 100% uptime on major resolve/ward...other then that Stamblade gets it natively from their spammable wheras thenother classes have to use a non dps ability to get it. Everyone has vigor. Other morph of cloak heals. I’m not sure at all where your point is.
Every single magic class has better survivability than stambalde. Stamdens have better survivability. They get extra health passively, and every animal skill they use heals them as well as lotus with light or heavy attacks. Stamdk are built to be tanks, they are the definition of survivable. Stamplars are have their resource sustain built onto their resistance buff, not to mention minor protection with their jabs.
Uhh SDK only has the spell resist passive. So no. Absolutely wrong. Warden observation is also incorrect. Before comparing classes you will need more experience with them.
Can you give a single reason other than, "You're wrong" because I can name a few reasons as to why YOUR statement is wrong. For starters, StamDK get a buff to their survivability every time they drop an Ultimate since the Battle Roar Passive restores a good chunk of Health and Resources each time and the extra Spell Resistance still makes them more survivable by default. Stamden does get health back passively just for using their Animal Companion skills, which also triggers their Minor Toughness passive, meaning they naturally have more health than NB, while also having Major Mending, meaning their heals are also stronger than that of a NB.
So, tell me, what exactly is "wrong" with @Dracan_Fontom statement?
welp, PvE meta yes?
Passive damage mitigation:
sdk: 3.3k ish spell resit
warden: none
sblade: major ward/resolve plus for heavy armor(won't count it) for six seconds after cast
lets average it out????
warden = no resists
dk 3.3 spell only
snb = (depending on your rotation) either 100% uptime to as low as 0%... so either number one on everything or basically tied on spell and still win on physical or you haven't surprised attack recently so most likely dead....
healing during meta rotation:
sdk full bar heal every 84 secs but no heal other than that...(250/3 = 83.33333 sooo 84 seconds neeeeeeeeat numbers)
warden: every time a pet dies a warden gets a heal(1260 every 24 secs during meta rotation)
snb: siphoning strikes(meta skill) 1420 every light attack or heavy or full bar heal when killing something.
lets tally
sdk= avg heals per second: 136 health per sec but only in a burst once every 84 secs
ward: 52.5 per sec
snb: only a measly 1420 per sec if weaving correctly like I know you should boo
special bonus round.... but but this skill makes them better : (((((((( aka non meta rotations)
standard of but might debuff well yeah you got that but uptime is so low its twice during most regular vet trials( more like never because dk dps is in the gutter... Am I right bois hahahahahaha) still its a huge cost and its never for mitigation but its 15% or twelve idk dks suck
but but you got armor skills and things on the ward/sdk. you can run blur heals and tanky stuff to but we be talking meta... so again tally them up!!!!
nightblade everything
ward/dks nothing.
Yay
Again know the classes you are comparing. ANNNNNNNDDDDDDD
All numbers are pulled from fextralife because I'm to lazy to memorize all these worthless numbers to prove a point...
Good day sir.
I look at this from a Healer's perspective. When I have any Stamina builds in a group with me, usually the 1 class that I have to babysit the most are Stamblade. Stamden throws out Shrooms when their health get low, DK drops Dawnbreaker and Stamplar uses Repentance or BoL and they're fine. I haven't really run with Stam Sorcs in forever so I can't really comment on them much, although I'd say they're on par with Stamblade overall since Crit Surge and Leeching Strikes function similarly enough to one another in terms of healing and they both have Major Resistances naturally in their rotation so in theory, they should be similar enough.
Still, in application, I'd say in terms of PvE survivability it would be
Stamden > StamDK=Stamplar > Stamblade=StamSorc
Stamplar use BoL? What game is this?
I'm just saying in terms of class opinions since all classes have access to Vigor, I purposefully excluded it as it doesn't relate to class based actions in terms of survivability. As for why BoL, your guess is as good as mine as to why a Stamplar would use it in PvE but most likely reason being they're a PvP toon just farming for X set and are too lazy to switch their skills/sets around or whatever. Point was only to point out this option as a class based heal that they have available to themOnefrkncrzypope wrote: »Silver_Strider wrote: »Onefrkncrzypope wrote: »Silver_Strider wrote: »Onefrkncrzypope wrote: »Dracan_Fontom wrote: »MartiniDaniels wrote: »Uh oh, someone's ez mode is getting turned off!
LMAO NB ez mode. NB is most skill-depenBLAINE1245 wrote: »BLAINE1245 wrote: »A pungent smell permeates this thread, i believe this is the smell...of zerg.
Well howdy there feller, i just want to let you know that we don't take kindly to your types 'round here!
Zerg has no bearing on anything aforementioned. I don't play Cyrodiil except to earn my 50 transmute crystals. My play is almost entirely PVE (trials, dungeons etc.) with battlegrounds being a smaller portion.
Then you should know that nightblades have been top dps since the game was released, and they're trying to finally balance the class to make it even with the rest. Have some shame, and don't complain about a balance change when you've been top dps by a considerable margin since the release of the game.
There is absolutely no shame in playing a class specifically designed for a certain role. I don't care to tank or heal and have therefore decided upon this class for the sake of continuing the way I have played Oblivion, Morrowind and Skyrim. Nightblade is a powerful class and rightfully so given their obvious flaws in other aspects of combat such as survivability and sustainability.
Errr, wrong, cloak and siphoning as well as passives give Stamblade arguably the best Survivability and Sustain of all stam classes.
As for spam dizzying? Joke? Stamblade has the best spammable in the game with Surprise Attack.
Adapt.
Ok, what about magblades, they are clearly underhanded in PVP, and in PVE this nerf won't matter in stack.. so most obvious way to nerf nightblades is nerf of surprise attack, and not of grim focus.
This nerf is not about balance, it's about sales of necromancer.
Yea unfortunately Magblade in PvP is getting hit with a significant nerf when in all actuality it needs buffs. Hopefully they’ll see buffs as well.BLAINE1245 wrote: »BLAINE1245 wrote: »BLAINE1245 wrote: »A pungent smell permeates this thread, i believe this is the smell...of zerg.
Well howdy there feller, i just want to let you know that we don't take kindly to your types 'round here!
Zerg has no bearing on anything aforementioned. I don't play Cyrodiil except to earn my 50 transmute crystals. My play is almost entirely PVE (trials, dungeons etc.) with battlegrounds being a smaller portion.
Then you should know that nightblades have been top dps since the game was released, and they're trying to finally balance the class to make it even with the rest. Have some shame, and don't complain about a balance change when you've been top dps by a considerable margin since the release of the game.
There is absolutely no shame in playing a class specifically designed for a certain role. I don't care to tank or heal and have therefore decided upon this class for the sake of continuing the way I have played Oblivion, Morrowind and Skyrim. Nightblade is a powerful class and rightfully so given their obvious flaws in other aspects of combat such as survivability and sustainability.
Errr, wrong, cloak and siphoning as well as passives give Stamblade arguably the best Survivability and Sustain of all stam classes.
As for spam dizzying? Joke? Stamblade has the best spammable in the game with Surprise Attack.
Adapt.
I disagree. Cloak has no use in PVE (again what I predominantly play) and siphoning certainly helps but is exactly equal to skills of other classes ie: Daedric summoner and Daedric protection which combined increase health and stamina recovery as well as maximum health. Spammables? Also equivalent. Jabs?
Stamblade has siphoning and 15% stamina regen and health regen. Not sure what your point there is. And if it’s PvE, what classes have better survivability then Stamblade? Stamsorc is the only one I can think of with 100% uptime on major resolve/ward...other then that Stamblade gets it natively from their spammable wheras thenother classes have to use a non dps ability to get it. Everyone has vigor. Other morph of cloak heals. I’m not sure at all where your point is.
Every single magic class has better survivability than stambalde. Stamdens have better survivability. They get extra health passively, and every animal skill they use heals them as well as lotus with light or heavy attacks. Stamdk are built to be tanks, they are the definition of survivable. Stamplars are have their resource sustain built onto their resistance buff, not to mention minor protection with their jabs.
Uhh SDK only has the spell resist passive. So no. Absolutely wrong. Warden observation is also incorrect. Before comparing classes you will need more experience with them.
Can you give a single reason other than, "You're wrong" because I can name a few reasons as to why YOUR statement is wrong. For starters, StamDK get a buff to their survivability every time they drop an Ultimate since the Battle Roar Passive restores a good chunk of Health and Resources each time and the extra Spell Resistance still makes them more survivable by default. Stamden does get health back passively just for using their Animal Companion skills, which also triggers their Minor Toughness passive, meaning they naturally have more health than NB, while also having Major Mending, meaning their heals are also stronger than that of a NB.
So, tell me, what exactly is "wrong" with @Dracan_Fontom statement?
welp, PvE meta yes?
Passive damage mitigation:
sdk: 3.3k ish spell resit
warden: none
sblade: major ward/resolve plus for heavy armor(won't count it) for six seconds after cast
lets average it out????
warden = no resists
dk 3.3 spell only
snb = (depending on your rotation) either 100% uptime to as low as 0%... so either number one on everything or basically tied on spell and still win on physical or you haven't surprised attack recently so most likely dead....
healing during meta rotation:
sdk full bar heal every 84 secs but no heal other than that...(250/3 = 83.33333 sooo 84 seconds neeeeeeeeat numbers)
warden: every time a pet dies a warden gets a heal(1260 every 24 secs during meta rotation)
snb: siphoning strikes(meta skill) 1420 every light attack or heavy or full bar heal when killing something.
lets tally
sdk= avg heals per second: 136 health per sec but only in a burst once every 84 secs
ward: 52.5 per sec
snb: only a measly 1420 per sec if weaving correctly like I know you should boo
special bonus round.... but but this skill makes them better : (((((((( aka non meta rotations)
standard of but might debuff well yeah you got that but uptime is so low its twice during most regular vet trials( more like never because dk dps is in the gutter... Am I right bois hahahahahaha) still its a huge cost and its never for mitigation but its 15% or twelve idk dks suck
but but you got armor skills and things on the ward/sdk. you can run blur heals and tanky stuff to but we be talking meta... so again tally them up!!!!
nightblade everything
ward/dks nothing.
Yay
Again know the classes you are comparing. ANNNNNNNDDDDDDD
All numbers are pulled from fextralife because I'm to lazy to memorize all these worthless numbers to prove a point...
Good day sir.
I look at this from a Healer's perspective. When I have any Stamina builds in a group with me, usually the 1 class that I have to babysit the most are Stamblade. Stamden throws out Shrooms when their health get low, DK drops Dawnbreaker and Stamplar uses Repentance or BoL and they're fine. I haven't really run with Stam Sorcs in forever so I can't really comment on them much, although I'd say they're on par with Stamblade overall since Crit Surge and Leeching Strikes function similarly enough to one another in terms of healing and they both have Major Resistances naturally in their rotation so in theory, they should be similar enough.
Still, in application, I'd say in terms of PvE survivability it would be
Stamden >StamDK=Stamplar> Stamblade=StamSorc
Why they no vigor? Again it's a meta analysis on what the classes has to offer.
Surge doesn't equal strikes.
Dawnbreaker isn't a heal is only up after ulti gained and isn't classed based.(why is everyone argument trying to make this sound like a bol??? It's up only every 50 secs or more)
If there is no dead repentance is worthless.
Stamplar's focus on the other hand is very nice.
I mean you can't base class balance on a eye balling.
I'm not saying I have the most hours or anything but I average around a 1000 hours on each of the 10 dps toons. Some alot less some alot more. I've done high end and low end and even train new players on these classes(not the Mastermind of any class).
I don't base my beliefs on the subjective. I wrote out a comparison that was fair and accurate. If anyone after wants to talk about what I missed in a class based comparison sure I will reply but just saying you think differently because like you know, isn't going to get a response.
Y'all have a nice morning, may your coffee be strong and you coworkers be quiet eaters.
Vigor is not a Class based ability, hence why I'm not mentioning it since all classes can use it.
I was NOT referring to Dawnbreaker in my DK example as a healing ability but referencing its use in conjunction with Battle Roar as a heal; and much like BoL, you aren't Spamming heals on yourself every 2 seconds only when you need them so for DK, if you have an Ultimate and need health, you're going to drop the ultimate immediately to get that heal. A NB might get more passive healing as a result of Leeching Strikes but when they need an "oh $#!%" heal, it's literally Vigor or bust. I only compare Crit Surge and Leeching Strikes because of how similarly they are in that they're both Heals over Time abilities (granted I'd say Crit Surge is more potent but whatever). However, when push comes to shove, both StamSorc and Stamblade are there using Vigor as their only real heal option.
I'm not saying that your assessment is wrong but in practical applications, it just doesn't work out the way you say it should. Just because a NB is getting back health every light attack doesn't necessarily mean their survivability is better than that of a Stamden or StamDK because those classes have options within them for those moments when survivability actually matters vs a NB which has nothing native to it and relies heavily on Vigor to pull it thru. I never take Vigor off my Bar on my Stamblade as its suicide to do so, whereas most other classes actually have some option in 1 form or another and while some aren't the greatest option (such as BoL on a Stamplar) it's better than nothing at all.
That's all I'm saying here.
So why did you include BoL for stamplar, and exclude Dark cloak for Stamblade, when it heals for more then BoL does on Stamplar? Serious question.0 -
Onefrkncrzypope✭✭✭✭✭
✭John_Falstaff wrote: »Onefrkncrzypope wrote: »Silver_Strider wrote: »Onefrkncrzypope wrote: »Silver_Strider wrote: »Onefrkncrzypope wrote: »Dracan_Fontom wrote: »MartiniDaniels wrote: »Uh oh, someone's ez mode is getting turned off!
LMAO NB ez mode. NB is most skill-depenBLAINE1245 wrote: »BLAINE1245 wrote: »A pungent smell permeates this thread, i believe this is the smell...of zerg.
Well howdy there feller, i just want to let you know that we don't take kindly to your types 'round here!
Zerg has no bearing on anything aforementioned. I don't play Cyrodiil except to earn my 50 transmute crystals. My play is almost entirely PVE (trials, dungeons etc.) with battlegrounds being a smaller portion.
Then you should know that nightblades have been top dps since the game was released, and they're trying to finally balance the class to make it even with the rest. Have some shame, and don't complain about a balance change when you've been top dps by a considerable margin since the release of the game.
There is absolutely no shame in playing a class specifically designed for a certain role. I don't care to tank or heal and have therefore decided upon this class for the sake of continuing the way I have played Oblivion, Morrowind and Skyrim. Nightblade is a powerful class and rightfully so given their obvious flaws in other aspects of combat such as survivability and sustainability.
Errr, wrong, cloak and siphoning as well as passives give Stamblade arguably the best Survivability and Sustain of all stam classes.
As for spam dizzying? Joke? Stamblade has the best spammable in the game with Surprise Attack.
Adapt.
Ok, what about magblades, they are clearly underhanded in PVP, and in PVE this nerf won't matter in stack.. so most obvious way to nerf nightblades is nerf of surprise attack, and not of grim focus.
This nerf is not about balance, it's about sales of necromancer.
Yea unfortunately Magblade in PvP is getting hit with a significant nerf when in all actuality it needs buffs. Hopefully they’ll see buffs as well.BLAINE1245 wrote: »BLAINE1245 wrote: »BLAINE1245 wrote: »A pungent smell permeates this thread, i believe this is the smell...of zerg.
Well howdy there feller, i just want to let you know that we don't take kindly to your types 'round here!
Zerg has no bearing on anything aforementioned. I don't play Cyrodiil except to earn my 50 transmute crystals. My play is almost entirely PVE (trials, dungeons etc.) with battlegrounds being a smaller portion.
Then you should know that nightblades have been top dps since the game was released, and they're trying to finally balance the class to make it even with the rest. Have some shame, and don't complain about a balance change when you've been top dps by a considerable margin since the release of the game.
There is absolutely no shame in playing a class specifically designed for a certain role. I don't care to tank or heal and have therefore decided upon this class for the sake of continuing the way I have played Oblivion, Morrowind and Skyrim. Nightblade is a powerful class and rightfully so given their obvious flaws in other aspects of combat such as survivability and sustainability.
Errr, wrong, cloak and siphoning as well as passives give Stamblade arguably the best Survivability and Sustain of all stam classes.
As for spam dizzying? Joke? Stamblade has the best spammable in the game with Surprise Attack.
Adapt.
I disagree. Cloak has no use in PVE (again what I predominantly play) and siphoning certainly helps but is exactly equal to skills of other classes ie: Daedric summoner and Daedric protection which combined increase health and stamina recovery as well as maximum health. Spammables? Also equivalent. Jabs?
Stamblade has siphoning and 15% stamina regen and health regen. Not sure what your point there is. And if it’s PvE, what classes have better survivability then Stamblade? Stamsorc is the only one I can think of with 100% uptime on major resolve/ward...other then that Stamblade gets it natively from their spammable wheras thenother classes have to use a non dps ability to get it. Everyone has vigor. Other morph of cloak heals. I’m not sure at all where your point is.
Every single magic class has better survivability than stambalde. Stamdens have better survivability. They get extra health passively, and every animal skill they use heals them as well as lotus with light or heavy attacks. Stamdk are built to be tanks, they are the definition of survivable. Stamplars are have their resource sustain built onto their resistance buff, not to mention minor protection with their jabs.
Uhh SDK only has the spell resist passive. So no. Absolutely wrong. Warden observation is also incorrect. Before comparing classes you will need more experience with them.
Can you give a single reason other than, "You're wrong" because I can name a few reasons as to why YOUR statement is wrong. For starters, StamDK get a buff to their survivability every time they drop an Ultimate since the Battle Roar Passive restores a good chunk of Health and Resources each time and the extra Spell Resistance still makes them more survivable by default. Stamden does get health back passively just for using their Animal Companion skills, which also triggers their Minor Toughness passive, meaning they naturally have more health than NB, while also having Major Mending, meaning their heals are also stronger than that of a NB.
So, tell me, what exactly is "wrong" with @Dracan_Fontom statement?
welp, PvE meta yes?
Passive damage mitigation:
sdk: 3.3k ish spell resit
warden: none
sblade: major ward/resolve plus for heavy armor(won't count it) for six seconds after cast
lets average it out????
warden = no resists
dk 3.3 spell only
snb = (depending on your rotation) either 100% uptime to as low as 0%... so either number one on everything or basically tied on spell and still win on physical or you haven't surprised attack recently so most likely dead....
healing during meta rotation:
sdk full bar heal every 84 secs but no heal other than that...(250/3 = 83.33333 sooo 84 seconds neeeeeeeeat numbers)
warden: every time a pet dies a warden gets a heal(1260 every 24 secs during meta rotation)
snb: siphoning strikes(meta skill) 1420 every light attack or heavy or full bar heal when killing something.
lets tally
sdk= avg heals per second: 136 health per sec but only in a burst once every 84 secs
ward: 52.5 per sec
snb: only a measly 1420 per sec if weaving correctly like I know you should boo
special bonus round.... but but this skill makes them better : (((((((( aka non meta rotations)
standard of but might debuff well yeah you got that but uptime is so low its twice during most regular vet trials( more like never because dk dps is in the gutter... Am I right bois hahahahahaha) still its a huge cost and its never for mitigation but its 15% or twelve idk dks suck
but but you got armor skills and things on the ward/sdk. you can run blur heals and tanky stuff to but we be talking meta... so again tally them up!!!!
nightblade everything
ward/dks nothing.
Yay
Again know the classes you are comparing. ANNNNNNNDDDDDDD
All numbers are pulled from fextralife because I'm to lazy to memorize all these worthless numbers to prove a point...
Good day sir.
I look at this from a Healer's perspective. When I have any Stamina builds in a group with me, usually the 1 class that I have to babysit the most are Stamblade. Stamden throws out Shrooms when their health get low, DK drops Dawnbreaker and Stamplar uses Repentance or BoL and they're fine. I haven't really run with Stam Sorcs in forever so I can't really comment on them much, although I'd say they're on par with Stamblade overall since Crit Surge and Leeching Strikes function similarly enough to one another in terms of healing and they both have Major Resistances naturally in their rotation so in theory, they should be similar enough.
Still, in application, I'd say in terms of PvE survivability it would be
Stamden >StamDK=Stamplar> Stamblade=StamSorc
Why they no vigor? Again it's a meta analysis on what the classes has to offer.
Surge doesn't equal strikes.
Dawnbreaker isn't a heal is only up after ulti gained and isn't classed based.(why is everyone argument trying to make this sound like a bol??? It's up only every 50 secs or more)
If there is no dead repentance is worthless.
Stamplar's focus on the other hand is very nice.
I mean you can't base class balance on a eye balling.
I'm not saying I have the most hours or anything but I average around a 1000 hours on each of the 10 dps toons. Some alot less some alot more. I've done high end and low end and even train new players on these classes(not the Mastermind of any class).
I don't base my beliefs on the subjective. I wrote out a comparison that was fair and accurate. If anyone after wants to talk about what I missed in a class based comparison sure I will reply but just saying you think differently because like you know, isn't going to get a response.
Y'all have a nice morning, may your coffee be strong and you coworkers be quiet eaters.
I'm not sure about meta analysis, but you should actually play DK more often; in practical sense, for DK, ultimate doubles down as a burst heal. Yes, it isn't always available, but it's a very effective 'oh crap' button that replenishes all resources at once. Your comparison is neither fair nor accurate because it doesn't match actual use cases; healing over time numbers mean nothing because damage isn't coming uniformly. In real content, you sometimes need a burst heal, and one that isn't tied to doing light attacks of having bodies lying around is even more valuable. Much good your 1.5k health will do when you need more, and even less when you're kiting damage and don't have anything to hit with your light attack to get that meager amount.
In fact, when I tried NB (and I main stamDK) it was one of the first thing that unpleasantly surprised me - I'm instinctively used to the fact that ultimate heals me and gets me back in combative shape, lack of such emergency button on sNB makes me feel vulnerable. (Another unpleasant surprise was lack of flex spot on the bar I could use without nerfing my damage - sNB's damage is spread thin over too many skills to leave bar space for skills useful for situational survivability.)
I have 2000 hours on my SDK dps. We have talked many times in the dk themed threads. Don't try to discredit me like that again.
You, as a dk main, should understand that if you just dropped ulti for the heal, you will not be able to drop it later for sustain or damage. You run out of Stam, dead. You want to play the it's a burst heal card fine but a blade could just kill something to get the same burst heal. So there you go. You should never use your ulti as dk unless it's perfectly timed. Of course my comparison of the classes isn't including vigor which every Stam class would use as a heal.
L2p if you struggle on a stamblade. It's is tankier, better sustain, better damage and a more rewarding class than any other currently.
-Immortal Redeemer-
-Extinguisher of Flames-
-Gryphon Heart-
-Potato-
If I edited a post, it was for spelling. It is always because of spelling....0 -
Silver_Strider✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Silver_Strider wrote: »Silver_Strider wrote: »Onefrkncrzypope wrote: »Silver_Strider wrote: »Onefrkncrzypope wrote: »Dracan_Fontom wrote: »MartiniDaniels wrote: »Uh oh, someone's ez mode is getting turned off!
LMAO NB ez mode. NB is most skill-depenBLAINE1245 wrote: »BLAINE1245 wrote: »A pungent smell permeates this thread, i believe this is the smell...of zerg.
Well howdy there feller, i just want to let you know that we don't take kindly to your types 'round here!
Zerg has no bearing on anything aforementioned. I don't play Cyrodiil except to earn my 50 transmute crystals. My play is almost entirely PVE (trials, dungeons etc.) with battlegrounds being a smaller portion.
Then you should know that nightblades have been top dps since the game was released, and they're trying to finally balance the class to make it even with the rest. Have some shame, and don't complain about a balance change when you've been top dps by a considerable margin since the release of the game.
There is absolutely no shame in playing a class specifically designed for a certain role. I don't care to tank or heal and have therefore decided upon this class for the sake of continuing the way I have played Oblivion, Morrowind and Skyrim. Nightblade is a powerful class and rightfully so given their obvious flaws in other aspects of combat such as survivability and sustainability.
Errr, wrong, cloak and siphoning as well as passives give Stamblade arguably the best Survivability and Sustain of all stam classes.
As for spam dizzying? Joke? Stamblade has the best spammable in the game with Surprise Attack.
Adapt.
Ok, what about magblades, they are clearly underhanded in PVP, and in PVE this nerf won't matter in stack.. so most obvious way to nerf nightblades is nerf of surprise attack, and not of grim focus.
This nerf is not about balance, it's about sales of necromancer.
Yea unfortunately Magblade in PvP is getting hit with a significant nerf when in all actuality it needs buffs. Hopefully they’ll see buffs as well.BLAINE1245 wrote: »BLAINE1245 wrote: »BLAINE1245 wrote: »A pungent smell permeates this thread, i believe this is the smell...of zerg.
Well howdy there feller, i just want to let you know that we don't take kindly to your types 'round here!
Zerg has no bearing on anything aforementioned. I don't play Cyrodiil except to earn my 50 transmute crystals. My play is almost entirely PVE (trials, dungeons etc.) with battlegrounds being a smaller portion.
Then you should know that nightblades have been top dps since the game was released, and they're trying to finally balance the class to make it even with the rest. Have some shame, and don't complain about a balance change when you've been top dps by a considerable margin since the release of the game.
There is absolutely no shame in playing a class specifically designed for a certain role. I don't care to tank or heal and have therefore decided upon this class for the sake of continuing the way I have played Oblivion, Morrowind and Skyrim. Nightblade is a powerful class and rightfully so given their obvious flaws in other aspects of combat such as survivability and sustainability.
Errr, wrong, cloak and siphoning as well as passives give Stamblade arguably the best Survivability and Sustain of all stam classes.
As for spam dizzying? Joke? Stamblade has the best spammable in the game with Surprise Attack.
Adapt.
I disagree. Cloak has no use in PVE (again what I predominantly play) and siphoning certainly helps but is exactly equal to skills of other classes ie: Daedric summoner and Daedric protection which combined increase health and stamina recovery as well as maximum health. Spammables? Also equivalent. Jabs?
Stamblade has siphoning and 15% stamina regen and health regen. Not sure what your point there is. And if it’s PvE, what classes have better survivability then Stamblade? Stamsorc is the only one I can think of with 100% uptime on major resolve/ward...other then that Stamblade gets it natively from their spammable wheras thenother classes have to use a non dps ability to get it. Everyone has vigor. Other morph of cloak heals. I’m not sure at all where your point is.
Every single magic class has better survivability than stambalde. Stamdens have better survivability. They get extra health passively, and every animal skill they use heals them as well as lotus with light or heavy attacks. Stamdk are built to be tanks, they are the definition of survivable. Stamplars are have their resource sustain built onto their resistance buff, not to mention minor protection with their jabs.
Uhh SDK only has the spell resist passive. So no. Absolutely wrong. Warden observation is also incorrect. Before comparing classes you will need more experience with them.
Can you give a single reason other than, "You're wrong" because I can name a few reasons as to why YOUR statement is wrong. For starters, StamDK get a buff to their survivability every time they drop an Ultimate since the Battle Roar Passive restores a good chunk of Health and Resources each time and the extra Spell Resistance still makes them more survivable by default. Stamden does get health back passively just for using their Animal Companion skills, which also triggers their Minor Toughness passive, meaning they naturally have more health than NB, while also having Major Mending, meaning their heals are also stronger than that of a NB.
So, tell me, what exactly is "wrong" with @Dracan_Fontom statement?
welp, PvE meta yes?
Passive damage mitigation:
sdk: 3.3k ish spell resit
warden: none
sblade: major ward/resolve plus for heavy armor(won't count it) for six seconds after cast
lets average it out????
warden = no resists
dk 3.3 spell only
snb = (depending on your rotation) either 100% uptime to as low as 0%... so either number one on everything or basically tied on spell and still win on physical or you haven't surprised attack recently so most likely dead....
healing during meta rotation:
sdk full bar heal every 84 secs but no heal other than that...(250/3 = 83.33333 sooo 84 seconds neeeeeeeeat numbers)
warden: every time a pet dies a warden gets a heal(1260 every 24 secs during meta rotation)
snb: siphoning strikes(meta skill) 1420 every light attack or heavy or full bar heal when killing something.
lets tally
sdk= avg heals per second: 136 health per sec but only in a burst once every 84 secs
ward: 52.5 per sec
snb: only a measly 1420 per sec if weaving correctly like I know you should boo
special bonus round.... but but this skill makes them better : (((((((( aka non meta rotations)
standard of but might debuff well yeah you got that but uptime is so low its twice during most regular vet trials( more like never because dk dps is in the gutter... Am I right bois hahahahahaha) still its a huge cost and its never for mitigation but its 15% or twelve idk dks suck
but but you got armor skills and things on the ward/sdk. you can run blur heals and tanky stuff to but we be talking meta... so again tally them up!!!!
nightblade everything
ward/dks nothing.
Yay
Again know the classes you are comparing. ANNNNNNNDDDDDDD
All numbers are pulled from fextralife because I'm to lazy to memorize all these worthless numbers to prove a point...
Good day sir.
I look at this from a Healer's perspective. When I have any Stamina builds in a group with me, usually the 1 class that I have to babysit the most are Stamblade. Stamden throws out Shrooms when their health get low, DK drops Dawnbreaker and Stamplar uses Repentance or BoL and they're fine. I haven't really run with Stam Sorcs in forever so I can't really comment on them much, although I'd say they're on par with Stamblade overall since Crit Surge and Leeching Strikes function similarly enough to one another in terms of healing and they both have Major Resistances naturally in their rotation so in theory, they should be similar enough.
Still, in application, I'd say in terms of PvE survivability it would be
Stamden > StamDK=Stamplar > Stamblade=StamSorc
Stamplar use BoL? What game is this?
I'm just saying in terms of class opinions since all classes have access to Vigor, I purposefully excluded it as it doesn't relate to class based actions in terms of survivability. As for why BoL, your guess is as good as mine as to why a Stamplar would use it in PvE but most likely reason being they're a PvP toon just farming for X set and are too lazy to switch their skills/sets around or whatever. Point was only to point out this option as a class based heal that they have available to themOnefrkncrzypope wrote: »Silver_Strider wrote: »Onefrkncrzypope wrote: »Silver_Strider wrote: »Onefrkncrzypope wrote: »Dracan_Fontom wrote: »MartiniDaniels wrote: »Uh oh, someone's ez mode is getting turned off!
LMAO NB ez mode. NB is most skill-depenBLAINE1245 wrote: »BLAINE1245 wrote: »A pungent smell permeates this thread, i believe this is the smell...of zerg.
Well howdy there feller, i just want to let you know that we don't take kindly to your types 'round here!
Zerg has no bearing on anything aforementioned. I don't play Cyrodiil except to earn my 50 transmute crystals. My play is almost entirely PVE (trials, dungeons etc.) with battlegrounds being a smaller portion.
Then you should know that nightblades have been top dps since the game was released, and they're trying to finally balance the class to make it even with the rest. Have some shame, and don't complain about a balance change when you've been top dps by a considerable margin since the release of the game.
There is absolutely no shame in playing a class specifically designed for a certain role. I don't care to tank or heal and have therefore decided upon this class for the sake of continuing the way I have played Oblivion, Morrowind and Skyrim. Nightblade is a powerful class and rightfully so given their obvious flaws in other aspects of combat such as survivability and sustainability.
Errr, wrong, cloak and siphoning as well as passives give Stamblade arguably the best Survivability and Sustain of all stam classes.
As for spam dizzying? Joke? Stamblade has the best spammable in the game with Surprise Attack.
Adapt.
Ok, what about magblades, they are clearly underhanded in PVP, and in PVE this nerf won't matter in stack.. so most obvious way to nerf nightblades is nerf of surprise attack, and not of grim focus.
This nerf is not about balance, it's about sales of necromancer.
Yea unfortunately Magblade in PvP is getting hit with a significant nerf when in all actuality it needs buffs. Hopefully they’ll see buffs as well.BLAINE1245 wrote: »BLAINE1245 wrote: »BLAINE1245 wrote: »A pungent smell permeates this thread, i believe this is the smell...of zerg.
Well howdy there feller, i just want to let you know that we don't take kindly to your types 'round here!
Zerg has no bearing on anything aforementioned. I don't play Cyrodiil except to earn my 50 transmute crystals. My play is almost entirely PVE (trials, dungeons etc.) with battlegrounds being a smaller portion.
Then you should know that nightblades have been top dps since the game was released, and they're trying to finally balance the class to make it even with the rest. Have some shame, and don't complain about a balance change when you've been top dps by a considerable margin since the release of the game.
There is absolutely no shame in playing a class specifically designed for a certain role. I don't care to tank or heal and have therefore decided upon this class for the sake of continuing the way I have played Oblivion, Morrowind and Skyrim. Nightblade is a powerful class and rightfully so given their obvious flaws in other aspects of combat such as survivability and sustainability.
Errr, wrong, cloak and siphoning as well as passives give Stamblade arguably the best Survivability and Sustain of all stam classes.
As for spam dizzying? Joke? Stamblade has the best spammable in the game with Surprise Attack.
Adapt.
I disagree. Cloak has no use in PVE (again what I predominantly play) and siphoning certainly helps but is exactly equal to skills of other classes ie: Daedric summoner and Daedric protection which combined increase health and stamina recovery as well as maximum health. Spammables? Also equivalent. Jabs?
Stamblade has siphoning and 15% stamina regen and health regen. Not sure what your point there is. And if it’s PvE, what classes have better survivability then Stamblade? Stamsorc is the only one I can think of with 100% uptime on major resolve/ward...other then that Stamblade gets it natively from their spammable wheras thenother classes have to use a non dps ability to get it. Everyone has vigor. Other morph of cloak heals. I’m not sure at all where your point is.
Every single magic class has better survivability than stambalde. Stamdens have better survivability. They get extra health passively, and every animal skill they use heals them as well as lotus with light or heavy attacks. Stamdk are built to be tanks, they are the definition of survivable. Stamplars are have their resource sustain built onto their resistance buff, not to mention minor protection with their jabs.
Uhh SDK only has the spell resist passive. So no. Absolutely wrong. Warden observation is also incorrect. Before comparing classes you will need more experience with them.
Can you give a single reason other than, "You're wrong" because I can name a few reasons as to why YOUR statement is wrong. For starters, StamDK get a buff to their survivability every time they drop an Ultimate since the Battle Roar Passive restores a good chunk of Health and Resources each time and the extra Spell Resistance still makes them more survivable by default. Stamden does get health back passively just for using their Animal Companion skills, which also triggers their Minor Toughness passive, meaning they naturally have more health than NB, while also having Major Mending, meaning their heals are also stronger than that of a NB.
So, tell me, what exactly is "wrong" with @Dracan_Fontom statement?
welp, PvE meta yes?
Passive damage mitigation:
sdk: 3.3k ish spell resit
warden: none
sblade: major ward/resolve plus for heavy armor(won't count it) for six seconds after cast
lets average it out????
warden = no resists
dk 3.3 spell only
snb = (depending on your rotation) either 100% uptime to as low as 0%... so either number one on everything or basically tied on spell and still win on physical or you haven't surprised attack recently so most likely dead....
healing during meta rotation:
sdk full bar heal every 84 secs but no heal other than that...(250/3 = 83.33333 sooo 84 seconds neeeeeeeeat numbers)
warden: every time a pet dies a warden gets a heal(1260 every 24 secs during meta rotation)
snb: siphoning strikes(meta skill) 1420 every light attack or heavy or full bar heal when killing something.
lets tally
sdk= avg heals per second: 136 health per sec but only in a burst once every 84 secs
ward: 52.5 per sec
snb: only a measly 1420 per sec if weaving correctly like I know you should boo
special bonus round.... but but this skill makes them better : (((((((( aka non meta rotations)
standard of but might debuff well yeah you got that but uptime is so low its twice during most regular vet trials( more like never because dk dps is in the gutter... Am I right bois hahahahahaha) still its a huge cost and its never for mitigation but its 15% or twelve idk dks suck
but but you got armor skills and things on the ward/sdk. you can run blur heals and tanky stuff to but we be talking meta... so again tally them up!!!!
nightblade everything
ward/dks nothing.
Yay
Again know the classes you are comparing. ANNNNNNNDDDDDDD
All numbers are pulled from fextralife because I'm to lazy to memorize all these worthless numbers to prove a point...
Good day sir.
I look at this from a Healer's perspective. When I have any Stamina builds in a group with me, usually the 1 class that I have to babysit the most are Stamblade. Stamden throws out Shrooms when their health get low, DK drops Dawnbreaker and Stamplar uses Repentance or BoL and they're fine. I haven't really run with Stam Sorcs in forever so I can't really comment on them much, although I'd say they're on par with Stamblade overall since Crit Surge and Leeching Strikes function similarly enough to one another in terms of healing and they both have Major Resistances naturally in their rotation so in theory, they should be similar enough.
Still, in application, I'd say in terms of PvE survivability it would be
Stamden >StamDK=Stamplar> Stamblade=StamSorc
Why they no vigor? Again it's a meta analysis on what the classes has to offer.
Surge doesn't equal strikes.
Dawnbreaker isn't a heal is only up after ulti gained and isn't classed based.(why is everyone argument trying to make this sound like a bol??? It's up only every 50 secs or more)
If there is no dead repentance is worthless.
Stamplar's focus on the other hand is very nice.
I mean you can't base class balance on a eye balling.
I'm not saying I have the most hours or anything but I average around a 1000 hours on each of the 10 dps toons. Some alot less some alot more. I've done high end and low end and even train new players on these classes(not the Mastermind of any class).
I don't base my beliefs on the subjective. I wrote out a comparison that was fair and accurate. If anyone after wants to talk about what I missed in a class based comparison sure I will reply but just saying you think differently because like you know, isn't going to get a response.
Y'all have a nice morning, may your coffee be strong and you coworkers be quiet eaters.
Vigor is not a Class based ability, hence why I'm not mentioning it since all classes can use it.
I was NOT referring to Dawnbreaker in my DK example as a healing ability but referencing its use in conjunction with Battle Roar as a heal; and much like BoL, you aren't Spamming heals on yourself every 2 seconds only when you need them so for DK, if you have an Ultimate and need health, you're going to drop the ultimate immediately to get that heal. A NB might get more passive healing as a result of Leeching Strikes but when they need an "oh $#!%" heal, it's literally Vigor or bust. I only compare Crit Surge and Leeching Strikes because of how similarly they are in that they're both Heals over Time abilities (granted I'd say Crit Surge is more potent but whatever). However, when push comes to shove, both StamSorc and Stamblade are there using Vigor as their only real heal option.
I'm not saying that your assessment is wrong but in practical applications, it just doesn't work out the way you say it should. Just because a NB is getting back health every light attack doesn't necessarily mean their survivability is better than that of a Stamden or StamDK because those classes have options within them for those moments when survivability actually matters vs a NB which has nothing native to it and relies heavily on Vigor to pull it thru. I never take Vigor off my Bar on my Stamblade as its suicide to do so, whereas most other classes actually have some option in 1 form or another and while some aren't the greatest option (such as BoL on a Stamplar) it's better than nothing at all.
That's all I'm saying here.
So why did you include BoL for stamplar, and exclude Dark cloak for Stamblade, when it heals for more then BoL does on Stamplar? Serious question.
For the same reason I excluded Clannfear, GDB, and Polar Winds; They're Tank related heals and their inclusion wouldn't really be needed to make my point. If I include Tank Skills, Templar would still have better survivability over NB both passively and actively as Templar uses Rune for resources management and gain the same resistance as NB, Minor Mending+Minor Protection via passives, and Sun Shield + the aforementioned BoL/Repentance, vs Dark Cloak which heals and provides Minor Protection and Leeching Strikes.
If I include GDB, that means DK also get 12% extra healing via passives and an 8% additional healing received from Minor Vitality.
If I include Polar Winds, that's some extra resistance for Warden passively (think it's only 500 but still).
I've no comment on Clannfear on a StamSorc. It's weird to see much like its weird seeing a Stamblade using Dark Cloak in PvE but I digress.
Their inclusion doesn't tip the scales more in NB's favor then it does prove that NB has crap survivability so I didn't feel the need to include them.Argonian forever0 -
John_Falstaff✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭@Onefrkncrzypope , and that's why I'm surprised why you're ignoring things like that and trying to express healing abilities of classes through uniform healing-per-second number. It's not constructive. If you don't want to be discredited, then try to differentiate between HoTs (more so those that come with conditions) and burst heal abilities, and use cases for each of those.
You see, if I drop ulti either for heal or sustain, then in both of those cases it means that if I didn't drop it, then later I would have been doing zero damage and wouldn't need sustain, because I'm dead. And very likely have triggered a wipe. And "just kill something" - what kind of argument is that? You realize that you don't always have something to kill nearby, you're kiting a lightning, you're trying to survive while having a DoT on you, and you need your burst heal right here and now in next GCD, you don't have time to look for something to attack, let alone kill. And at the same time, you do include DK's Battle Roar in your attempt to calculate classes' HPS, but for some reason refuse to see that it's a burst heal as opposed to NB's HoT that runs on constant attacking.
Given that, I'm inclined to disregard your 'L2P' and 'you should never use your ulti as DK...' comments, they're either not made from experience, or you're simply not being honest here. I'm not defending Battle Roar, it inherently overloads ultimate with functions of sustain and burst heal, you cannot ignore that simple fact, it's in the passive's design. I don't enjoy this passive (it's an example of bad tank-oriented passive design), but I'm also not trying to misrepresent things and convince others that HoT is in all situations better than burst heal. Battle Roar is a good burst heal and a burst source of resources, and don't tell me how to use it properly, else I'll in turn accuse you in not using it right every time you hold out at full ultimate (and lose sustain) for when you need a burst of damage. In each fight, you choose what do you need most at given moment - burst heal, burst stamina/magicka return, or damage, and don't tell me you're always lucky to combine at least two. That's how (sadly) Battle Roar works. It's right there in the passive's tooltip.
That stamblade has better sustain, damage and it's more rewarding - of course, but not sure why you're even mentioning that, it's orthogonal to the topic. Tankier, no, and even resistances, you don't get all the time, optimal rotation will give about 50% uptime on them, and they drop completely in execute.1 -
Blinkin8r✭✭✭✭✭BLAINE1245 wrote: »The most concerning prior to now being the Wrathstone update which entirely eliminated bonus damage from stealth (the major perk of being Khajiit when other races have much better recovery and resources) as well as converting our 8% critical chance to a 10% critical damage bonus.
When you use shadowy disguise it guarantees a crit. When you have 10% crit damage and you attack after hitting Shadowy Disguise, you kind of have 10% damage from stealth. I have a wood elf ganker and can insta kill people in melee. I'd imagine a Khajiit could instakill even harder if the build synergizes with his passives well.II Blinkin II
Xbox 1 NA
"A man without the sauce is lost, but the same man can become lost in the sauce."0 -
Kuramas9tails✭✭✭✭✭
✭
Have you tried other stam classes because I find my StamSorc has AMAZING damage and survivability.BLAINE1245 wrote: »BLAINE1245 wrote: »A pungent smell permeates this thread, i believe this is the smell...of zerg.
Well howdy there feller, i just want to let you know that we don't take kindly to your types 'round here!
Zerg has no bearing on anything aforementioned. I don't play Cyrodiil except to earn my 50 transmute crystals. My play is almost entirely PVE (trials, dungeons etc.) with battlegrounds being a smaller portion.
Then you should know that nightblades have been top dps since the game was released, and they're trying to finally balance the class to make it even with the rest. Have some shame, and don't complain about a balance change when you've been top dps by a considerable margin since the release of the game.
There is absolutely no shame in playing a class specifically designed for a certain role. I don't care to tank or heal and have therefore decided upon this class for the sake of continuing the way I have played Oblivion, Morrowind and Skyrim. Nightblade is a powerful class and rightfully so given their obvious flaws in other aspects of combat such as survivability and sustainability.
Errr, wrong, cloak and siphoning as well as passives give Stamblade arguably the best Survivability and Sustain of all stam classes.
As for spam dizzying? Joke? Stamblade has the best spammable in the game with Surprise Attack.
Adapt.Your friendly neighborhood crazy cat lady of ESO
New PSN name: SundariTheLast. Proud seller in RedEye Empire, PURPLE GANG and Backalley Trading.
AD High Elf Mageblade DPS (General)(Former Empress) -- Stormproof/VMOL, VHOF, VDSA completion
AD Khajiit Mageblade DPS -- Flawless Conquerer
FOR THE QUEEN!
PS4/NA2 -
Dracan_Fontom✭✭✭✭✭Onefrkncrzypope wrote: »John_Falstaff wrote: »Onefrkncrzypope wrote: »Silver_Strider wrote: »Onefrkncrzypope wrote: »Silver_Strider wrote: »Onefrkncrzypope wrote: »Dracan_Fontom wrote: »MartiniDaniels wrote: »Uh oh, someone's ez mode is getting turned off!
LMAO NB ez mode. NB is most skill-depenBLAINE1245 wrote: »BLAINE1245 wrote: »A pungent smell permeates this thread, i believe this is the smell...of zerg.
Well howdy there feller, i just want to let you know that we don't take kindly to your types 'round here!
Zerg has no bearing on anything aforementioned. I don't play Cyrodiil except to earn my 50 transmute crystals. My play is almost entirely PVE (trials, dungeons etc.) with battlegrounds being a smaller portion.
Then you should know that nightblades have been top dps since the game was released, and they're trying to finally balance the class to make it even with the rest. Have some shame, and don't complain about a balance change when you've been top dps by a considerable margin since the release of the game.
There is absolutely no shame in playing a class specifically designed for a certain role. I don't care to tank or heal and have therefore decided upon this class for the sake of continuing the way I have played Oblivion, Morrowind and Skyrim. Nightblade is a powerful class and rightfully so given their obvious flaws in other aspects of combat such as survivability and sustainability.
Errr, wrong, cloak and siphoning as well as passives give Stamblade arguably the best Survivability and Sustain of all stam classes.
As for spam dizzying? Joke? Stamblade has the best spammable in the game with Surprise Attack.
Adapt.
Ok, what about magblades, they are clearly underhanded in PVP, and in PVE this nerf won't matter in stack.. so most obvious way to nerf nightblades is nerf of surprise attack, and not of grim focus.
This nerf is not about balance, it's about sales of necromancer.
Yea unfortunately Magblade in PvP is getting hit with a significant nerf when in all actuality it needs buffs. Hopefully they’ll see buffs as well.BLAINE1245 wrote: »BLAINE1245 wrote: »BLAINE1245 wrote: »A pungent smell permeates this thread, i believe this is the smell...of zerg.
Well howdy there feller, i just want to let you know that we don't take kindly to your types 'round here!
Zerg has no bearing on anything aforementioned. I don't play Cyrodiil except to earn my 50 transmute crystals. My play is almost entirely PVE (trials, dungeons etc.) with battlegrounds being a smaller portion.
Then you should know that nightblades have been top dps since the game was released, and they're trying to finally balance the class to make it even with the rest. Have some shame, and don't complain about a balance change when you've been top dps by a considerable margin since the release of the game.
There is absolutely no shame in playing a class specifically designed for a certain role. I don't care to tank or heal and have therefore decided upon this class for the sake of continuing the way I have played Oblivion, Morrowind and Skyrim. Nightblade is a powerful class and rightfully so given their obvious flaws in other aspects of combat such as survivability and sustainability.
Errr, wrong, cloak and siphoning as well as passives give Stamblade arguably the best Survivability and Sustain of all stam classes.
As for spam dizzying? Joke? Stamblade has the best spammable in the game with Surprise Attack.
Adapt.
I disagree. Cloak has no use in PVE (again what I predominantly play) and siphoning certainly helps but is exactly equal to skills of other classes ie: Daedric summoner and Daedric protection which combined increase health and stamina recovery as well as maximum health. Spammables? Also equivalent. Jabs?
Stamblade has siphoning and 15% stamina regen and health regen. Not sure what your point there is. And if it’s PvE, what classes have better survivability then Stamblade? Stamsorc is the only one I can think of with 100% uptime on major resolve/ward...other then that Stamblade gets it natively from their spammable wheras thenother classes have to use a non dps ability to get it. Everyone has vigor. Other morph of cloak heals. I’m not sure at all where your point is.
Every single magic class has better survivability than stambalde. Stamdens have better survivability. They get extra health passively, and every animal skill they use heals them as well as lotus with light or heavy attacks. Stamdk are built to be tanks, they are the definition of survivable. Stamplars are have their resource sustain built onto their resistance buff, not to mention minor protection with their jabs.
Uhh SDK only has the spell resist passive. So no. Absolutely wrong. Warden observation is also incorrect. Before comparing classes you will need more experience with them.
Can you give a single reason other than, "You're wrong" because I can name a few reasons as to why YOUR statement is wrong. For starters, StamDK get a buff to their survivability every time they drop an Ultimate since the Battle Roar Passive restores a good chunk of Health and Resources each time and the extra Spell Resistance still makes them more survivable by default. Stamden does get health back passively just for using their Animal Companion skills, which also triggers their Minor Toughness passive, meaning they naturally have more health than NB, while also having Major Mending, meaning their heals are also stronger than that of a NB.
So, tell me, what exactly is "wrong" with @Dracan_Fontom statement?
welp, PvE meta yes?
Passive damage mitigation:
sdk: 3.3k ish spell resit
warden: none
sblade: major ward/resolve plus for heavy armor(won't count it) for six seconds after cast
lets average it out????
warden = no resists
dk 3.3 spell only
snb = (depending on your rotation) either 100% uptime to as low as 0%... so either number one on everything or basically tied on spell and still win on physical or you haven't surprised attack recently so most likely dead....
healing during meta rotation:
sdk full bar heal every 84 secs but no heal other than that...(250/3 = 83.33333 sooo 84 seconds neeeeeeeeat numbers)
warden: every time a pet dies a warden gets a heal(1260 every 24 secs during meta rotation)
snb: siphoning strikes(meta skill) 1420 every light attack or heavy or full bar heal when killing something.
lets tally
sdk= avg heals per second: 136 health per sec but only in a burst once every 84 secs
ward: 52.5 per sec
snb: only a measly 1420 per sec if weaving correctly like I know you should boo
special bonus round.... but but this skill makes them better : (((((((( aka non meta rotations)
standard of but might debuff well yeah you got that but uptime is so low its twice during most regular vet trials( more like never because dk dps is in the gutter... Am I right bois hahahahahaha) still its a huge cost and its never for mitigation but its 15% or twelve idk dks suck
but but you got armor skills and things on the ward/sdk. you can run blur heals and tanky stuff to but we be talking meta... so again tally them up!!!!
nightblade everything
ward/dks nothing.
Yay
Again know the classes you are comparing. ANNNNNNNDDDDDDD
All numbers are pulled from fextralife because I'm to lazy to memorize all these worthless numbers to prove a point...
Good day sir.
I look at this from a Healer's perspective. When I have any Stamina builds in a group with me, usually the 1 class that I have to babysit the most are Stamblade. Stamden throws out Shrooms when their health get low, DK drops Dawnbreaker and Stamplar uses Repentance or BoL and they're fine. I haven't really run with Stam Sorcs in forever so I can't really comment on them much, although I'd say they're on par with Stamblade overall since Crit Surge and Leeching Strikes function similarly enough to one another in terms of healing and they both have Major Resistances naturally in their rotation so in theory, they should be similar enough.
Still, in application, I'd say in terms of PvE survivability it would be
Stamden >StamDK=Stamplar> Stamblade=StamSorc
Why they no vigor? Again it's a meta analysis on what the classes has to offer.
Surge doesn't equal strikes.
Dawnbreaker isn't a heal is only up after ulti gained and isn't classed based.(why is everyone argument trying to make this sound like a bol??? It's up only every 50 secs or more)
If there is no dead repentance is worthless.
Stamplar's focus on the other hand is very nice.
I mean you can't base class balance on a eye balling.
I'm not saying I have the most hours or anything but I average around a 1000 hours on each of the 10 dps toons. Some alot less some alot more. I've done high end and low end and even train new players on these classes(not the Mastermind of any class).
I don't base my beliefs on the subjective. I wrote out a comparison that was fair and accurate. If anyone after wants to talk about what I missed in a class based comparison sure I will reply but just saying you think differently because like you know, isn't going to get a response.
Y'all have a nice morning, may your coffee be strong and you coworkers be quiet eaters.
I'm not sure about meta analysis, but you should actually play DK more often; in practical sense, for DK, ultimate doubles down as a burst heal. Yes, it isn't always available, but it's a very effective 'oh crap' button that replenishes all resources at once. Your comparison is neither fair nor accurate because it doesn't match actual use cases; healing over time numbers mean nothing because damage isn't coming uniformly. In real content, you sometimes need a burst heal, and one that isn't tied to doing light attacks of having bodies lying around is even more valuable. Much good your 1.5k health will do when you need more, and even less when you're kiting damage and don't have anything to hit with your light attack to get that meager amount.
In fact, when I tried NB (and I main stamDK) it was one of the first thing that unpleasantly surprised me - I'm instinctively used to the fact that ultimate heals me and gets me back in combative shape, lack of such emergency button on sNB makes me feel vulnerable. (Another unpleasant surprise was lack of flex spot on the bar I could use without nerfing my damage - sNB's damage is spread thin over too many skills to leave bar space for skills useful for situational survivability.)
I have 2000 hours on my SDK dps. We have talked many times in the dk themed threads. Don't try to discredit me like that again.
You, as a dk main, should understand that if you just dropped ulti for the heal, you will not be able to drop it later for sustain or damage. You run out of Stam, dead. You want to play the it's a burst heal card fine but a blade could just kill something to get the same burst heal. So there you go. You should never use your ulti as dk unless it's perfectly timed. Of course my comparison of the classes isn't including vigor which every Stam class would use as a heal.
L2p if you struggle on a stamblade. It's is tankier, better sustain, better damage and a more rewarding class than any other currently.
Says the guy discrediting others. Ironic.3 -
Onefrkncrzypope✭✭✭✭✭
✭John_Falstaff wrote: »@Onefrkncrzypope , and that's why I'm surprised why you're ignoring things like that and trying to express healing abilities of classes through uniform healing-per-second number. It's not constructive. If you don't want to be discredited, then try to differentiate between HoTs (more so those that come with conditions) and burst heal abilities, and use cases for each of those.
You see, if I drop ulti either for heal or sustain, then in both of those cases it means that if I didn't drop it, then later I would have been doing zero damage and wouldn't need sustain, because I'm dead. And very likely have triggered a wipe. And "just kill something" - what kind of argument is that? You realize that you don't always have something to kill nearby, you're kiting a lightning, you're trying to survive while having a DoT on you, and you need your burst heal right here and now in next GCD, you don't have time to look for something to attack, let alone kill. And at the same time, you do include DK's Battle Roar in your attempt to calculate classes' HPS, but for some reason refuse to see that it's a burst heal as opposed to NB's HoT that runs on constant attacking.
Given that, I'm inclined to disregard your 'L2P' and 'you should never use your ulti as DK...' comments, they're either not made from experience, or you're simply not being honest here. I'm not defending Battle Roar, it inherently overloads ultimate with functions of sustain and burst heal, you cannot ignore that simple fact, it's in the passive's design. I don't enjoy this passive (it's an example of bad tank-oriented passive design), but I'm also not trying to misrepresent things and convince others that HoT is in all situations better than burst heal. Battle Roar is a good burst heal and a burst source of resources, and don't tell me how to use it properly, else I'll in turn accuse you in not using it right every time you hold out at full ultimate (and lose sustain) for when you need a burst of damage. In each fight, you choose what do you need most at given moment - burst heal, burst stamina/magicka return, or damage, and don't tell me you're always lucky to combine at least two. That's how (sadly) Battle Roar works. It's right there in the passive's tooltip.
That stamblade has better sustain, damage and it's more rewarding - of course, but not sure why you're even mentioning that, it's orthogonal to the topic. Tankier, no, and even resistances, you don't get all the time, optimal rotation will give about 50% uptime on them, and they drop completely in execute.
Firstly I was cranky. Suffer from insomnia from time to time so l20p comment was uncalled for. The other comments about the over all wellness might be sound tangential but fit in the overall topic of this thread. It was about nightblade nerfs general.
Now yes you are correct about the execute resistance change but the low uptime is a stretch. It's a six sec passive when dictated buy ay and overall damage if that passive is dropping it's either for a GCD or two or not at all net averaging a resistance based advantage to a SDK and also warden
Now for the heals from battle roar bieng the decider between the heal based comparison seems to me as grasping at straws. On the class level and in combat conditions you are looking at a minimum of 50 secs of down time between dawnbreaker the front bar ultimate for SDK. It can not be relied on as an adequate self heal. Neither is it on demand nor noticable health gain. Meta rotations have the dk drop their standard early in the start of a fight.
Not saying that in a small amount of situations that it can heal you. Yes for a meta maximum 11k. But again when comparing class based tankiness it's not a decider just like the burst heal from a stamblade execute is either. I included it into the original comparison just to show how little over time that factors in. We can change the situations all day to show and advantage to any class in the game.
Stam sorcs are tankiest because of the ability to disengage from the warrior faster during shield throw and dawnbreaker or any other ground based one shot and have minor ward/resolve.
SDK are tankiest when they stand in their standard (if a nightblade hasn't done a surprise attack.)
Splar is tankiest well most of the time with focus and minor protection.
Swards are squishy but they can continue some of the fight from range... I guess
Anyone change change to conditions for any classes advantage but in a common standing there over a common time with steady or burst damage with the same CP and player and gear. Nightblades are never the squishiest.Dracan_Fontom wrote: »Onefrkncrzypope wrote: »John_Falstaff wrote: »Onefrkncrzypope wrote: »Silver_Strider wrote: »Onefrkncrzypope wrote: »Silver_Strider wrote: »Onefrkncrzypope wrote: »Dracan_Fontom wrote: »MartiniDaniels wrote: »Uh oh, someone's ez mode is getting turned off!
LMAO NB ez mode. NB is most skill-depenBLAINE1245 wrote: »BLAINE1245 wrote: »A pungent smell permeates this thread, i believe this is the smell...of zerg.
Well howdy there feller, i just want to let you know that we don't take kindly to your types 'round here!
Zerg has no bearing on anything aforementioned. I don't play Cyrodiil except to earn my 50 transmute crystals. My play is almost entirely PVE (trials, dungeons etc.) with battlegrounds being a smaller portion.
Then you should know that nightblades have been top dps since the game was released, and they're trying to finally balance the class to make it even with the rest. Have some shame, and don't complain about a balance change when you've been top dps by a considerable margin since the release of the game.
There is absolutely no shame in playing a class specifically designed for a certain role. I don't care to tank or heal and have therefore decided upon this class for the sake of continuing the way I have played Oblivion, Morrowind and Skyrim. Nightblade is a powerful class and rightfully so given their obvious flaws in other aspects of combat such as survivability and sustainability.
Errr, wrong, cloak and siphoning as well as passives give Stamblade arguably the best Survivability and Sustain of all stam classes.
As for spam dizzying? Joke? Stamblade has the best spammable in the game with Surprise Attack.
Adapt.
Ok, what about magblades, they are clearly underhanded in PVP, and in PVE this nerf won't matter in stack.. so most obvious way to nerf nightblades is nerf of surprise attack, and not of grim focus.
This nerf is not about balance, it's about sales of necromancer.
Yea unfortunately Magblade in PvP is getting hit with a significant nerf when in all actuality it needs buffs. Hopefully they’ll see buffs as well.BLAINE1245 wrote: »BLAINE1245 wrote: »BLAINE1245 wrote: »A pungent smell permeates this thread, i believe this is the smell...of zerg.
Well howdy there feller, i just want to let you know that we don't take kindly to your types 'round here!
Zerg has no bearing on anything aforementioned. I don't play Cyrodiil except to earn my 50 transmute crystals. My play is almost entirely PVE (trials, dungeons etc.) with battlegrounds being a smaller portion.
Then you should know that nightblades have been top dps since the game was released, and they're trying to finally balance the class to make it even with the rest. Have some shame, and don't complain about a balance change when you've been top dps by a considerable margin since the release of the game.
There is absolutely no shame in playing a class specifically designed for a certain role. I don't care to tank or heal and have therefore decided upon this class for the sake of continuing the way I have played Oblivion, Morrowind and Skyrim. Nightblade is a powerful class and rightfully so given their obvious flaws in other aspects of combat such as survivability and sustainability.
Errr, wrong, cloak and siphoning as well as passives give Stamblade arguably the best Survivability and Sustain of all stam classes.
As for spam dizzying? Joke? Stamblade has the best spammable in the game with Surprise Attack.
Adapt.
I disagree. Cloak has no use in PVE (again what I predominantly play) and siphoning certainly helps but is exactly equal to skills of other classes ie: Daedric summoner and Daedric protection which combined increase health and stamina recovery as well as maximum health. Spammables? Also equivalent. Jabs?
Stamblade has siphoning and 15% stamina regen and health regen. Not sure what your point there is. And if it’s PvE, what classes have better survivability then Stamblade? Stamsorc is the only one I can think of with 100% uptime on major resolve/ward...other then that Stamblade gets it natively from their spammable wheras thenother classes have to use a non dps ability to get it. Everyone has vigor. Other morph of cloak heals. I’m not sure at all where your point is.
Every single magic class has better survivability than stambalde. Stamdens have better survivability. They get extra health passively, and every animal skill they use heals them as well as lotus with light or heavy attacks. Stamdk are built to be tanks, they are the definition of survivable. Stamplars are have their resource sustain built onto their resistance buff, not to mention minor protection with their jabs.
Uhh SDK only has the spell resist passive. So no. Absolutely wrong. Warden observation is also incorrect. Before comparing classes you will need more experience with them.
Can you give a single reason other than, "You're wrong" because I can name a few reasons as to why YOUR statement is wrong. For starters, StamDK get a buff to their survivability every time they drop an Ultimate since the Battle Roar Passive restores a good chunk of Health and Resources each time and the extra Spell Resistance still makes them more survivable by default. Stamden does get health back passively just for using their Animal Companion skills, which also triggers their Minor Toughness passive, meaning they naturally have more health than NB, while also having Major Mending, meaning their heals are also stronger than that of a NB.
So, tell me, what exactly is "wrong" with @Dracan_Fontom statement?
welp, PvE meta yes?
Passive damage mitigation:
sdk: 3.3k ish spell resit
warden: none
sblade: major ward/resolve plus for heavy armor(won't count it) for six seconds after cast
lets average it out????
warden = no resists
dk 3.3 spell only
snb = (depending on your rotation) either 100% uptime to as low as 0%... so either number one on everything or basically tied on spell and still win on physical or you haven't surprised attack recently so most likely dead....
healing during meta rotation:
sdk full bar heal every 84 secs but no heal other than that...(250/3 = 83.33333 sooo 84 seconds neeeeeeeeat numbers)
warden: every time a pet dies a warden gets a heal(1260 every 24 secs during meta rotation)
snb: siphoning strikes(meta skill) 1420 every light attack or heavy or full bar heal when killing something.
lets tally
sdk= avg heals per second: 136 health per sec but only in a burst once every 84 secs
ward: 52.5 per sec
snb: only a measly 1420 per sec if weaving correctly like I know you should boo
special bonus round.... but but this skill makes them better : (((((((( aka non meta rotations)
standard of but might debuff well yeah you got that but uptime is so low its twice during most regular vet trials( more like never because dk dps is in the gutter... Am I right bois hahahahahaha) still its a huge cost and its never for mitigation but its 15% or twelve idk dks suck
but but you got armor skills and things on the ward/sdk. you can run blur heals and tanky stuff to but we be talking meta... so again tally them up!!!!
nightblade everything
ward/dks nothing.
Yay
Again know the classes you are comparing. ANNNNNNNDDDDDDD
All numbers are pulled from fextralife because I'm to lazy to memorize all these worthless numbers to prove a point...
Good day sir.
I look at this from a Healer's perspective. When I have any Stamina builds in a group with me, usually the 1 class that I have to babysit the most are Stamblade. Stamden throws out Shrooms when their health get low, DK drops Dawnbreaker and Stamplar uses Repentance or BoL and they're fine. I haven't really run with Stam Sorcs in forever so I can't really comment on them much, although I'd say they're on par with Stamblade overall since Crit Surge and Leeching Strikes function similarly enough to one another in terms of healing and they both have Major Resistances naturally in their rotation so in theory, they should be similar enough.
Still, in application, I'd say in terms of PvE survivability it would be
Stamden >StamDK=Stamplar> Stamblade=StamSorc
Why they no vigor? Again it's a meta analysis on what the classes has to offer.
Surge doesn't equal strikes.
Dawnbreaker isn't a heal is only up after ulti gained and isn't classed based.(why is everyone argument trying to make this sound like a bol??? It's up only every 50 secs or more)
If there is no dead repentance is worthless.
Stamplar's focus on the other hand is very nice.
I mean you can't base class balance on a eye balling.
I'm not saying I have the most hours or anything but I average around a 1000 hours on each of the 10 dps toons. Some alot less some alot more. I've done high end and low end and even train new players on these classes(not the Mastermind of any class).
I don't base my beliefs on the subjective. I wrote out a comparison that was fair and accurate. If anyone after wants to talk about what I missed in a class based comparison sure I will reply but just saying you think differently because like you know, isn't going to get a response.
Y'all have a nice morning, may your coffee be strong and you coworkers be quiet eaters.
I'm not sure about meta analysis, but you should actually play DK more often; in practical sense, for DK, ultimate doubles down as a burst heal. Yes, it isn't always available, but it's a very effective 'oh crap' button that replenishes all resources at once. Your comparison is neither fair nor accurate because it doesn't match actual use cases; healing over time numbers mean nothing because damage isn't coming uniformly. In real content, you sometimes need a burst heal, and one that isn't tied to doing light attacks of having bodies lying around is even more valuable. Much good your 1.5k health will do when you need more, and even less when you're kiting damage and don't have anything to hit with your light attack to get that meager amount.
In fact, when I tried NB (and I main stamDK) it was one of the first thing that unpleasantly surprised me - I'm instinctively used to the fact that ultimate heals me and gets me back in combative shape, lack of such emergency button on sNB makes me feel vulnerable. (Another unpleasant surprise was lack of flex spot on the bar I could use without nerfing my damage - sNB's damage is spread thin over too many skills to leave bar space for skills useful for situational survivability.)
I have 2000 hours on my SDK dps. We have talked many times in the dk themed threads. Don't try to discredit me like that again.
You, as a dk main, should understand that if you just dropped ulti for the heal, you will not be able to drop it later for sustain or damage. You run out of Stam, dead. You want to play the it's a burst heal card fine but a blade could just kill something to get the same burst heal. So there you go. You should never use your ulti as dk unless it's perfectly timed. Of course my comparison of the classes isn't including vigor which every Stam class would use as a heal.
L2p if you struggle on a stamblade. It's is tankier, better sustain, better damage and a more rewarding class than any other currently.
Says the guy discrediting others. Ironic.
You remind me of the song by Alanis Morissette.
-Immortal Redeemer-
-Extinguisher of Flames-
-Gryphon Heart-
-Potato-
If I edited a post, it was for spelling. It is always because of spelling....0