Since ZOS is supposedly nerfing snares and wings....

Savos_Saren · March 2019

...can DKs finally get a *** execute? Our melee-based class has to rely on snares to slow down targets to *hopefully* whittle them down while, of course, we're getting pummeled from ranged builds. You've beaten the hell out of our tankiness with strong bleeds and oblivion damage while simultaneously nerfing the *** out of our "perma blocks".

Let's not forget that the whole "permablocking" hate is because DKs use spell/physical resistances to protect them while attempting to do high damage. But, ironically, it's no different than a Sorc using magicka-based wards to protect them while doing high damage. Or no different than a NB using cloak to suppress DOTs and "miss" undodgable skills to immediately reengage a target with high damage attacks. The same can be said with Templars using high heals and purges to ignore damage while bursting down targets. And Wardens, of course, with their heals/tankiness/burst.

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_BrianWheeler

Can we possibly get an answer? I know that you're nerfing all the classes- but can you please, for the love of all that is unholy, make the classes a little more balanced? Or is this just ZOS's way of *** over classes so that buying a Necromancer is a guarantee?

brandonv516 · March 2019

Source?

Savos_Saren · March 2019

@brandonv516

It's from Dottz Gaming's podcast. Apparently, he's revealed a lot of nerfs that are happening.

helios777 · March 2019

I wouldn’t be surprised if wings get nerfed because then necro could cast certain abilities. I would expect the warden shield to also be nerfed with wings then to make it fair. It’s kind of a shame ZoS needs to nerf class-identity skills to make another class more viable lol.

IxSTALKERxI · March 2019

How is it a nerf? 50% damage reduction with no target cap. So you can use wings in a rotation with 100% up time like how it was at launch. It's not like people died to reflect anyway. Anyways, seems like a buff outnumbered imo.

Also that whip change sounds strong...

IxSTALKERxI · March 2019

Snares are a nerf to permafrost wardens imo. It's not like dk's used cinderstorm much with it's small radius.

Vapirko · March 2019

Is there a link to this podcast? Seems a bit early to know specifics, I do doubt they’re going to start taking requests prior to PTS at any rate. I would say that for the sake of magicka sorcs and magblades that some sort of alternative to reflected abilties was in order, and I say this as someone who has been enjoying mag dk a lot lately.

Cinbri · March 2019

Vapirko wrote: »

Is there a link to this podcast? Seems a bit early to know specifics, I do doubt they’re going to start taking requests prior to PTS at any rate. I would say that for the sake of magicka sorcs and magblades that some sort of alternative to reflected abilties was in order, and I say this as someone who has been enjoying mag dk a lot lately.

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/402688127

Starting on 1hour 6min abount balance

Vildebill · March 2019

Good whining on the forums, one of the few useful and unique skills DK:s had in PvP is nerfed.

likecats · March 2019

DKs can now have perma 50% projectile damage reduction. This is unique, very strong in 1vX, balanced in 1v1 and Xv1.
Not sure why people are calling it a nerf, they removed the 4 projectile cap. It's a great balance change overall. It's an overall buff aside from dueling magblades basically, which is great because the old wings were basically rock-paper-scissors.

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO · March 2019

Cinbri wrote: »
Vapirko wrote: »

Is there a link to this podcast? Seems a bit early to know specifics, I do doubt they’re going to start taking requests prior to PTS at any rate. I would say that for the sake of magicka sorcs and magblades that some sort of alternative to reflected abilties was in order, and I say this as someone who has been enjoying mag dk a lot lately.
https://www.twitch.tv/videos/402688127
Starting on 1hour 6min abount balance

Thank you for the link, got to say suggested that steel tornado nerf a while back.

SaintSubwayy · March 2019

NO DK's dont need a execut...stop this freaking equality of classes stuff....its removing the uniqueness of classes.

Get DK's back to dealing consistent high DMG over the whole duration of a fight, while other classes deal less dmg pre execute, and equal DPS at the end of the fight.

StShoot · March 2019

likecats wrote: »

DKs can now have perma 50% projectile damage reduction. This is unique, very strong in 1vX, balanced in 1v1 and Xv1.
Not sure why people are calling it a nerf, they removed the 4 projectile cap. It's a great balance change overall. It's an overall buff aside from dueling magblades basically, which is great because the old wings were basically rock-paper-scissors.

yeah but you also get the debuffs now and HALF of the dmg of PROJECTILE builds, this is no buff. Other classes cough NECRO cough have the possibilety to get 38% reduced dmg against EVERYTHING so how is this fair ?

likecats · March 2019

StShoot wrote: »

likecats wrote: »

DKs can now have perma 50% projectile damage reduction. This is unique, very strong in 1vX, balanced in 1v1 and Xv1.
Not sure why people are calling it a nerf, they removed the 4 projectile cap. It's a great balance change overall. It's an overall buff aside from dueling magblades basically, which is great because the old wings were basically rock-paper-scissors.

yeah but you also get the debuffs now and HALF of the dmg of PROJECTILE builds, this is no buff. Other classes cough NECRO cough have the possibilety to get 38% reduced dmg against EVERYTHING so how is this fair ?

I haven't looked into necro yet, so can't comment. I don't have insight about how their class functions, so even if I knew the ability itself, I still would refrain from commenting.

DK wings itself, compared to its former self is in a better overall place.
In the past, if you were outnumbered, wings would drop in 1 second and basically be useless.
Now, outnumbered, wings will be much much much more useful.

At the same time, old wings were downright OP in 1v1 against certain classes.

Overall, I'd say its a good change unless you like curb stomping specific builds in dueling. If you 1vX, it should be a big buff.

Also note, the new wings will likely also mitigate skills like force pulse and cliff racer that were not previously reflected. So it will have a much larger use case than the old wings.

Davadin · March 2019

IxSTALKERxI wrote: »

How is it a nerf? 50% damage reduction with no target cap. So you can use wings in a rotation with 100% up time like how it was at launch. It's not like people died to reflect anyway. Anyways, seems like a buff outnumbered imo.

Also that whip change sounds strong...

so pretty much benefits MagDK only. how's StamDK?

Oh right, instead of insta-kill with 1 arrow, we get to get hit with 2 arrows.

Oh wait! in Cyrodiil gank builds always animation-cancel to 2 arrows at a time! Great!

/s

Davadin · March 2019

likecats wrote: »

StShoot wrote: »

likecats wrote: »

DKs can now have perma 50% projectile damage reduction. This is unique, very strong in 1vX, balanced in 1v1 and Xv1.
Not sure why people are calling it a nerf, they removed the 4 projectile cap. It's a great balance change overall. It's an overall buff aside from dueling magblades basically, which is great because the old wings were basically rock-paper-scissors.

yeah but you also get the debuffs now and HALF of the dmg of PROJECTILE builds, this is no buff. Other classes cough NECRO cough have the possibilety to get 38% reduced dmg against EVERYTHING so how is this fair ?

I haven't looked into necro yet, so can't comment. I don't have insight about how their class functions, so even if I knew the ability itself, I still would refrain from commenting.

DK wings itself, compared to its former self is in a better overall place.
In the past, if you were outnumbered, wings would drop in 1 second and basically be useless.
Now, outnumbered, wings will be much much much more useful.

At the same time, old wings were downright OP in 1v1 against certain classes.

Overall, I'd say its a good change unless you like curb stomping specific builds in dueling. If you 1vX, it should be a big buff.

Also note, the new wings will likely also mitigate skills like force pulse and cliff racer that were not previously reflected. So it will have a much larger use case than the old wings.

This makes sense.

But people seems to forget that half a damage is still quite a lot. Am I wrong here?

Am I the only one that prefers to use wings as a temporary buff to either escape or jump into an attack - rather than "semi-permanent buff"?

I honestly believe that less than 10% of PvP DK is able to do 1vX. Most DK are either in a zerg ball or small group. In this scenario, having half the damage - no matter if it's up 100% of the time - will NOT help us either survive or rushing in.

It helps to.. what? I really don't know. Survive when you're 1vX, sure. Otherwise, it's just a waste of resource. Precious resource if ur StamDK too.

I mean, I don't even slot this anymore (unless I'm being spammed by Snipes when sieging a keep), but half damage is not good at all.

hey, just my 2c.

IxSTALKERxI · March 2019

Davadin wrote: »

IxSTALKERxI wrote: »

How is it a nerf? 50% damage reduction with no target cap. So you can use wings in a rotation with 100% up time like how it was at launch. It's not like people died to reflect anyway. Anyways, seems like a buff outnumbered imo.

Also that whip change sounds strong...

so pretty much benefits MagDK only. how's StamDK?

Oh right, instead of insta-kill with 1 arrow, we get to get hit with 2 arrows.

Oh wait! in Cyrodiil gank builds always animation-cancel to 2 arrows at a time! Great!

/s

They nerfed leathal arrow also... and you can just dodge roll on a stam build.

They indirectly buffed reverse slice on stam dk by nerfing steel tornado. (reverse slice is 7m radius on stam dk)

Davadin · March 2019

SaintSubwayy wrote: »

NO DK's dont need a execut...stop this freaking equality of classes stuff....its removing the uniqueness of classes.

Get DK's back to dealing consistent high DMG over the whole duration of a fight, while other classes deal less dmg pre execute, and equal DPS at the end of the fight.

agree. i dont need an execute. i can use 2H or DW skills if i really need to.

but as StamDK, we simply have NO class skills that can provide consistent high DMG anyway............

MagDK at least got a leash (i hear it's being buffed? congrats!), but StamDK is at the bottom of the shithole in class hierarchy, so if we got a class-execute, hey, I'm not rejecting it.

Davadin · March 2019

likecats wrote: »

DKs can now have perma 50% projectile damage reduction. This is unique, very strong in 1vX, balanced in 1v1 and Xv1.

how is this balanced in 1v1 or Xv1? I'm honestly curious. I mean, come on, how many DK can 1vX in Cyrodiil. A good handful of old veterans perhaps, but most are not.

50% is 50% damage.

against a ranged fighter, whereas we have a short time period opportunity to escape/attack, now we have to worry about 50% new damage....

Honestly, with the state of DK today, they should've just give us the no cap, keep 100% damage reflected, make it costs more magicka, and have 1 stamina morph.

magblade88 · March 2019

Davadin wrote: »

IxSTALKERxI wrote: »

How is it a nerf? 50% damage reduction with no target cap. So you can use wings in a rotation with 100% up time like how it was at launch. It's not like people died to reflect anyway. Anyways, seems like a buff outnumbered imo.

Also that whip change sounds strong...

so pretty much benefits MagDK only. how's StamDK?

Oh right, instead of insta-kill with 1 arrow, we get to get hit with 2 arrows.

Oh wait! in Cyrodiil gank builds always animation-cancel to 2 arrows at a time! Great!

/s

You do realize if you turn your in game audio up you can hear snipe going off and have plenty of time to dodge... Funny I cant even recall the last time I died to a snipe gank... i do remember getting plenty of hate tells accusing me me of running miats though.

Minno · March 2019

helios777 wrote: »

I wouldn’t be surprised if wings get nerfed because then necro could cast certain abilities. I would expect the warden shield to also be nerfed with wings then to make it fair. It’s kind of a shame ZoS needs to nerf class-identity skills to make another class more viable lol.

I kinda will expect all defenses to take a hit now. Warden shimmering, DK wings, NB cloak (

) , sorc shields/pets, templar blazing shield (though I expect a redesign not really a nerf cause it sucks)

Davadin · March 2019

magblade88 wrote: »

Davadin wrote: »

IxSTALKERxI wrote: »

How is it a nerf? 50% damage reduction with no target cap. So you can use wings in a rotation with 100% up time like how it was at launch. It's not like people died to reflect anyway. Anyways, seems like a buff outnumbered imo.

Also that whip change sounds strong...

so pretty much benefits MagDK only. how's StamDK?

Oh right, instead of insta-kill with 1 arrow, we get to get hit with 2 arrows.

Oh wait! in Cyrodiil gank builds always animation-cancel to 2 arrows at a time! Great!

/s

You do realize if you turn your in game audio up you can hear snipe going off and have plenty of time to dodge... Funny I cant even recall the last time I died to a snipe gank... i do remember getting plenty of hate tells accusing me me of running miats though.

i often play with no audio since play only late at night where my family is sleeping.

/dirtycashualz

PS: nobody gonna hear snipe when they're busy surviving in a keep attack/defense. not everyone is leveled enough or know enough people to do solo play or small group skirmishes. most people just "WHERES THE ACTION AT, FAM" and dive head first to have some fun. this IS a game, is it not?

LjAnimalchin · March 2019

It is a shame, really. Projectiles being reflected really is one of the flavours of dk. It's already a shell of its former self, and now it will be gone.
Not much bothers me in this game. I roll with the punches generally. But this made me sad.

MattT1988 · March 2019

magblade88 wrote: »

Davadin wrote: »

IxSTALKERxI wrote: »

How is it a nerf? 50% damage reduction with no target cap. So you can use wings in a rotation with 100% up time like how it was at launch. It's not like people died to reflect anyway. Anyways, seems like a buff outnumbered imo.

Also that whip change sounds strong...

so pretty much benefits MagDK only. how's StamDK?

Oh right, instead of insta-kill with 1 arrow, we get to get hit with 2 arrows.

Oh wait! in Cyrodiil gank builds always animation-cancel to 2 arrows at a time! Great!

/s

You do realize if you turn your in game audio up you can hear snipe going off and have plenty of time to dodge... Funny I cant even recall the last time I died to a snipe gank... i do remember getting plenty of hate tells accusing me me of running miats though.

The audio queues lag a lot. They’re unreliable.

sharquez · March 2019

Sorc main here, I'm not going to toxically instigate any aggression by pointing and laughing at all the DKS losing the majority of their class identity like we have because I've had 4 of them and this sucks. Sorry for your loss.

P.S. Buff Sorc.

Flame_of_Hades · March 2019

Davadin wrote: »

SaintSubwayy wrote: »

NO DK's dont need a execut...stop this freaking equality of classes stuff....its removing the uniqueness of classes.

Get DK's back to dealing consistent high DMG over the whole duration of a fight, while other classes deal less dmg pre execute, and equal DPS at the end of the fight.

agree. i dont need an execute. i can use 2H or DW skills if i really need to.

but as StamDK, we simply have NO class skills that can provide consistent high DMG anyway............

MagDK at least got a leash (i hear it's being buffed? congrats!), but StamDK is at the bottom of the shithole in class hierarchy, so if we got a class-execute, hey, I'm not rejecting it.

No. Stam dk is not "at the bottom of the shithole in class hierarchy".

Some background - starting in January last year I picked up mag dk as my main class (after going through nb, sorc, and templar), I played that class in 6/7 light armor for about a year, with people calling me a tank (most of my time was spent in skoria, bsw, hist sap). recently, i have jumped between stam sorc, stamblade, and magblade. Two weeks ago, I built a stam dk in 5 heavy armor (first time i have EVER done that).

My take aways? stam dk is stupidly easy to survive on, it has decent resource sustain, and has great damage (don't get me started on corrosive armor...)

so no, stam dk is not at the bottom, magblade and stamsorc are. Stam dk is actually in a very good place right now, if slightly over performing with how easy it is to survive when using major mending.

Joy_Division · March 2019

Davadin wrote: »

SaintSubwayy wrote: »

NO DK's dont need a execut...stop this freaking equality of classes stuff....its removing the uniqueness of classes.

Get DK's back to dealing consistent high DMG over the whole duration of a fight, while other classes deal less dmg pre execute, and equal DPS at the end of the fight.

agree. i dont need an execute. i can use 2H or DW skills if i really need to.

but as StamDK, we simply have NO class skills that can provide consistent high DMG anyway............

MagDK at least got a leash (i hear it's being buffed? congrats!), but StamDK is at the bottom of the shithole in class hierarchy, so if we got a class-execute, hey, I'm not rejecting it.

No it's not.

John_Falstaff · March 2019

@Joy_Division , I'd argue that sDK needs attention in PvE.

Joy_Division · March 2019

John_Falstaff wrote: »

@Joy_Division , I'd argue that sDK needs attention in PvE.

I agree. The person whose calling it "the bottom of the shithole" is referring to PvP.

SkysOutThizeOut · March 2019

Ranged damage. Maybe the new wings will reduce birds and force shock. Maybe all ranged damage and maybe that’ll include things like meteor. Maybe it’ll include the new necro skills that wings wouldn’t protect against anyway.

frostz417 · March 2019

magblade88 wrote: »

Davadin wrote: »

IxSTALKERxI wrote: »

How is it a nerf? 50% damage reduction with no target cap. So you can use wings in a rotation with 100% up time like how it was at launch. It's not like people died to reflect anyway. Anyways, seems like a buff outnumbered imo.

Also that whip change sounds strong...

so pretty much benefits MagDK only. how's StamDK?

Oh right, instead of insta-kill with 1 arrow, we get to get hit with 2 arrows.

Oh wait! in Cyrodiil gank builds always animation-cancel to 2 arrows at a time! Great!

/s

You do realize if you turn your in game audio up you can hear snipe going off and have plenty of time to dodge... Funny I cant even recall the last time I died to a snipe gank... i do remember getting plenty of hate tells accusing me me of running miats though.

You do realize 90% of the time the sound doesn’t even go off and you don’t realize you’re being sniped until 5 hit you at once