VaranisArano wrote: »

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

SoLooney wrote: »

All the backlash from this thread

All you pvpers telling the pvers to suck it and just grind the t1 for 50 Crystal's, just a huge lol

If it was the opposite and dungeons and trials gave you a ton of Crystal's while rotw and end of campaign rewards only gave you like 2 or 3, we would hear so many more complaints, so much more

No end game pver likes to run old dungeons over and over again. Its stale, boring and not worth the time. The amount of Crystal's you get per time spent is laughable.

We run trials but the coffers only reward 5 per week

No pve activity is worth the time compared to rotw and end of rewards campaign. It takes 20 to 30 min, maybe longer if your alliance isnt putting in work or the campaign is dead because of odd hours

And yes, I'm one of those pve guys who zerg surfs, doesnt help with fights ( I crouch or cloak) and I most certainly dont help with sieging. I am a complete leech. I will repair cause that adds to the AP gain but that's about it

People argue it encourages pve players to try pvp. You only have to pvp once to see if it's for you, so you either love it, or you hate it. After that, it doesnt matter

So this thread basically boils down to...

"ZOS, I don't want to play your content over and over again to get the gear I want. I don't want to play your content over and over to grind for the transmute stones I want. And I dislike having to play PVP so I can get more transmute stones faster."

ZOS, effectively: "Have you considered that getting you to play our content over and over again, whether you like it or not, is a feature and not a bug? Oh, and you'll do PVP to get more stones? Mmm, working as intended. Welcome to the grind!"

Everything ZOS does from transmute stones to shaking up the meta every update is designed to make meta followers chase the carrot of the meta every update and keep grinding away at ESO. No, it doesn't benefit ZOS to just hand you more stones for doing PVE content to change your gear because that allows you to shortcut the grind. The longer you grind away, the longer you play the game whether you enjoy it or not...over the entire playerbase ZOS has determine that's more profit than otherwise.

And the benefits for ZOS getting more players into PVP have little to do with whether you personally like it or not. Primarily, ZOS balances PVP and PVE together, so they benefit from a playerbase with some exerience in both.


Seriously, why would it profit ZOS to give PVE players more transmute stones compared to the benefits ZOS derives from expecting you to grind PVE content for gear/stones or play PVP for more stones?

I hope you spend 300 keys grinding for the right shoulder the next time you need one

And if I do...that's working as intended from ZOS' perspective. Either you grind for the Undaunted Keys, however long that takes, or you wait for the Golden Vendor, however long that takes (just over a year for Earthgore shoulders, IIIRC).

I mean and while it may be working as intended, its not necessarily a great idea...

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

SoLooney wrote: »

All the backlash from this thread

All you pvpers telling the pvers to suck it and just grind the t1 for 50 Crystal's, just a huge lol

If it was the opposite and dungeons and trials gave you a ton of Crystal's while rotw and end of campaign rewards only gave you like 2 or 3, we would hear so many more complaints, so much more

No end game pver likes to run old dungeons over and over again. Its stale, boring and not worth the time. The amount of Crystal's you get per time spent is laughable.

We run trials but the coffers only reward 5 per week

No pve activity is worth the time compared to rotw and end of rewards campaign. It takes 20 to 30 min, maybe longer if your alliance isnt putting in work or the campaign is dead because of odd hours

And yes, I'm one of those pve guys who zerg surfs, doesnt help with fights ( I crouch or cloak) and I most certainly dont help with sieging. I am a complete leech. I will repair cause that adds to the AP gain but that's about it

People argue it encourages pve players to try pvp. You only have to pvp once to see if it's for you, so you either love it, or you hate it. After that, it doesnt matter

So this thread basically boils down to...

"ZOS, I don't want to play your content over and over again to get the gear I want. I don't want to play your content over and over to grind for the transmute stones I want. And I dislike having to play PVP so I can get more transmute stones faster."

ZOS, effectively: "Have you considered that getting you to play our content over and over again, whether you like it or not, is a feature and not a bug? Oh, and you'll do PVP to get more stones? Mmm, working as intended. Welcome to the grind!"

Everything ZOS does from transmute stones to shaking up the meta every update is designed to make meta followers chase the carrot of the meta every update and keep grinding away at ESO. No, it doesn't benefit ZOS to just hand you more stones for doing PVE content to change your gear because that allows you to shortcut the grind. The longer you grind away, the longer you play the game whether you enjoy it or not...over the entire playerbase ZOS has determine that's more profit than otherwise.

And the benefits for ZOS getting more players into PVP have little to do with whether you personally like it or not. Primarily, ZOS balances PVP and PVE together, so they benefit from a playerbase with some exerience in both.


Seriously, why would it profit ZOS to give PVE players more transmute stones compared to the benefits ZOS derives from expecting you to grind PVE content for gear/stones or play PVP for more stones?

I hope you spend 300 keys grinding for the right shoulder the next time you need one

And if I do...that's working as intended from ZOS' perspective. Either you grind for the Undaunted Keys, however long that takes, or you wait for the Golden Vendor, however long that takes (just over a year for Earthgore shoulders, IIIRC).

I mean and while it may be working as intended, its not necessarily a great idea...

Sure. You are free to tell ZOS that while its working as intended from their perspective, actually they should consider alternatives as this thread does.

From my perspective, I've yet to see anyone explain why their proposed changes are more beneficial for ZOS than the status quo when they take the impact over the entire game population into account, not just their own personal desires not to grind for gear.

As far as we've seen from update after update, ZOS wants us grinding ESO's content over and over. Furthermore, transmute stones are intended as a last resort and thus were implemented as an alternate grind with an eventually guaranteed result, not a speedy shortcut. Ultimately, ZOS want to keep as many people as possible playing the game as much as possible...and whether or not they are happy while they play doesnt matter as much as the fact that they are still playing.

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

SoLooney wrote: »

All the backlash from this thread

All you pvpers telling the pvers to suck it and just grind the t1 for 50 Crystal's, just a huge lol

If it was the opposite and dungeons and trials gave you a ton of Crystal's while rotw and end of campaign rewards only gave you like 2 or 3, we would hear so many more complaints, so much more

No end game pver likes to run old dungeons over and over again. Its stale, boring and not worth the time. The amount of Crystal's you get per time spent is laughable.

We run trials but the coffers only reward 5 per week

No pve activity is worth the time compared to rotw and end of rewards campaign. It takes 20 to 30 min, maybe longer if your alliance isnt putting in work or the campaign is dead because of odd hours

And yes, I'm one of those pve guys who zerg surfs, doesnt help with fights ( I crouch or cloak) and I most certainly dont help with sieging. I am a complete leech. I will repair cause that adds to the AP gain but that's about it

People argue it encourages pve players to try pvp. You only have to pvp once to see if it's for you, so you either love it, or you hate it. After that, it doesnt matter

So this thread basically boils down to...

"ZOS, I don't want to play your content over and over again to get the gear I want. I don't want to play your content over and over to grind for the transmute stones I want. And I dislike having to play PVP so I can get more transmute stones faster."

ZOS, effectively: "Have you considered that getting you to play our content over and over again, whether you like it or not, is a feature and not a bug? Oh, and you'll do PVP to get more stones? Mmm, working as intended. Welcome to the grind!"

Everything ZOS does from transmute stones to shaking up the meta every update is designed to make meta followers chase the carrot of the meta every update and keep grinding away at ESO. No, it doesn't benefit ZOS to just hand you more stones for doing PVE content to change your gear because that allows you to shortcut the grind. The longer you grind away, the longer you play the game whether you enjoy it or not...over the entire playerbase ZOS has determine that's more profit than otherwise.

And the benefits for ZOS getting more players into PVP have little to do with whether you personally like it or not. Primarily, ZOS balances PVP and PVE together, so they benefit from a playerbase with some exerience in both.


Seriously, why would it profit ZOS to give PVE players more transmute stones compared to the benefits ZOS derives from expecting you to grind PVE content for gear/stones or play PVP for more stones?

I hope you spend 300 keys grinding for the right shoulder the next time you need one

And if I do...that's working as intended from ZOS' perspective. Either you grind for the Undaunted Keys, however long that takes, or you wait for the Golden Vendor, however long that takes (just over a year for Earthgore shoulders, IIIRC).

I mean and while it may be working as intended, its not necessarily a great idea...

Sure. You are free to tell ZOS that while its working as intended from their perspective, actually they should consider alternatives as this thread does.

From my perspective, I've yet to see anyone explain why their proposed changes are more beneficial for ZOS than the status quo when they take the impact over the entire game population into account, not just their own personal desires not to grind for gear.

As far as we've seen from update after update, ZOS wants us grinding ESO's content over and over. Furthermore, transmute stones are intended as a last resort and thus were implemented as an alternate grind with an eventually guaranteed result, not a speedy shortcut. Ultimately, ZOS want to keep as many people as possible playing the game as much as possible...and whether or not they are happy while they play doesnt matter as much as the fact that they are still playing.

Transmute stones are not a last resort...since when does jewelry drop in multiple traits?

That's a good point. Transmute stones were introduced well before Jewelry crafting and so the original intent certainly didn't take that into consideration.

Jewelry Crafting is an odd duck, since ZOS clearly wanted it gated behind the Summerset chapter and transmutation doesn't benefit anyone who doesn't own it. Its also hard for us to say that increasing the demand for transmute stones by 150 stones per build isn't exactly what ZOS wants. Remember that more grinding = more time spent in game over the entire player population, so its possible that the increased demand for transmute stones for anyone who owns Summerset is driving exactly the behavior ZOS wants. If that's not the case, they can always increase the amount. But they also have to take into account that the demand for transmuted jewelry is not true over the entire playerbase as anyone who doesn't own Summerset would benefit from the increased drop rate without that sink to take up the excess. (I keep hoping that ZOS makes jewelry crafting a base game thing with Elsweyr, but we'll see.)


I don't really think this debate is going anywhere. I'm sitting here saying that ZOS can increase the amount if they want, but as long as ZOS wants players to be grinding away for their transmute stones, that's unlikely to happen. And everything I see, all the trends with recent content, indicates to me that ZOS is perfectly happy to watch us grind away for transmute stones and gear and for it to take a decent investment of time and effort if you want to transmute a lot of stuff.

Ultimately, we'll have to see where ZOS takes this. Either they want players to have access to more stones through PVE content and so increase it, or they are happy with the status quo where people have limited access to stones unless they grind a lot or do multiple gamemodes.

PVE players should get the same treatment PVPers get with the Golden Vendor. Let PVE players buy PVP acquired things for lots of gold.

Druid40 wrote: »

PVE players should get the same treatment PVPers get with the Golden Vendor. Let PVE players buy PVP acquired things for lots of gold.

I can't tell if this is supposed to be a joke or for real. On the assumption that you actually mean it...Good news! You already can!

PVP gear isn't BOP. You can buy anything acquired from PVP with gold either from a guild store or from a PVPer who acquired it.

• IC sets? Buy it from someone who farmed the Tel Var to purchase it. That's actually how I got my Meritorious Service set - I bought it on a guild store.
• Cyrodiil Town Sets? Its an RNG box, but again, buy it from someone who spent the AP to get it.
• Battleground Reward Sets? Rewards for the Worthy Sets/Jewelry? Its RNG, but again, buy it from someone lucky enough to get it as a reward for doing PVP. It just .llike Willpower/Agility/Endurance, only worse RNG.
• Gold Jewelry from PVP sets? Well, they aren't BOP so you can buy it from a PVPer after they come on sale during Midyear Mayhem.

Unlike the monster helms and dungeon jewelry pieces sold by the Golden Vendor, PVP gear isn't Bind on Pickup. If you want to buy them for lots of gold, you can buy them whenever you want.

To the contrary, PVP players who want gear from PVE content like Dungeons, Trials, and Arenas have no choice but to play PVE content to get BOP gear. In the case of the Golden Vendor, they have to wait for RNG to get a chance at Monster Helms and Shoulders or Golden Jewelry for Dungeon only sets. In the case of Earthgore, PVPers unwilling or unable to run vBRF waited just over a year on PC/NA for the Earthgore helm to show up in the Golden.

In conclusion, a PVEer who hates PVP and never wants to do it can acquire any piece of PVP gear for gold. A PVPer who hates PVE and never wants to do it can only acquire Monster Helms, Shoulders, and BOP Gold Jewelry for AP or gold after a lengthy RNG wait, and will not obtain any other BOP gear from dungeons, trials, or arenas, ever.

Now, that's all working as intended, so I'm not going to claim that's "unfair" or anything. ZOS wants us to do all of the content, and they definitely like for us PVPers to run their PVE content again and again just like they do the PVEers. That's part of the point of having BOP PVE-acquired gear. But I did want to point out in response to your original comment that, actually, if you want PVP gear, you can buy it for gold, no extra Golden Vendor required.