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Nos's "Mirakuru" BowBow Stamina Warden (Wrathstone DLC ready)

  • hedna123b14_ESO
    hedna123b14_ESO
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    WAMB0 wrote: »
    While Hail is the biggest part of dps, you're also loosing ticks of caltrops, (possibly? poison injection) and beasttrap
    But I now got a parse (although not my best) where sub was bigger part than hail.

    Nvm I found the big mistake. I was using other WM jewels than on my stamplar, so I was missing 2 WP dmg enchants, just now reached 37,5k first try.
    Running into sustain issues again with only 2-3 HA. So I either have to go 3-4 or swap to Stormfist or depend on bubbles.

    You dobt lose any uptime on caltrops or Trap Beast, you may lose some on PI and Hail. However I consistently hit 40k+ with this rotation and my max was 41.2k
  • hedna123b14_ESO
    hedna123b14_ESO
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  • idk
    idk
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    @hedna123b14_ESO

    iirc you used to post your builds on TF. Had not seen an update in awhile so stopped looking there. Wil you be posting your builds there again?

    Thx for the reply below. Will be looking forward to seeing your other builds.
    Edited by idk on June 1, 2018 6:15AM
  • hedna123b14_ESO
    hedna123b14_ESO
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    Ill be posting in bothj
    Edited by hedna123b14_ESO on June 1, 2018 6:14AM
  • hedna123b14_ESO
    hedna123b14_ESO
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  • Masel
    Masel
    Class Representative
    BOBO ftw! Cool stuff
    PC EU

    All Trial Trifecta Titles Done!

    Youtube:
    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UChVEG6ckuAgGs5OyA6VeisA
  • SodanTok
    SodanTok
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    Awesome. I mourned loss of your NB Bow thread back in Morrowind update. Was first and last proof bow can do some good work for many patches for me.
  • hedna123b14_ESO
    hedna123b14_ESO
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    SodanTok wrote: »
    Awesome. I mourned loss of your NB Bow thread back in Morrowind update. Was first and last proof bow can do some good work for many patches for me.

    Did you seb's video?

    https://youtu.be/FCcszCMw4yQ
  • SodanTok
    SodanTok
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    SodanTok wrote: »
    Awesome. I mourned loss of your NB Bow thread back in Morrowind update. Was first and last proof bow can do some good work for many patches for me.

    Did you seb's video?

    https://youtu.be/FCcszCMw4yQ

    Now I did, crazy what the synergy does. I wonder what will happen with this synergy and bows coming next update. Looks too good to stay like this for long :|
  • hedna123b14_ESO
    hedna123b14_ESO
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    SodanTok wrote: »
    SodanTok wrote: »
    Awesome. I mourned loss of your NB Bow thread back in Morrowind update. Was first and last proof bow can do some good work for many patches for me.

    Did you seb's video?

    https://youtu.be/FCcszCMw4yQ

    Now I did, crazy what the synergy does. I wonder what will happen with this synergy and bows coming next update. Looks too good to stay like this for long :|

    Here is the issue: people say it's broken and you can definitely make a case for that - a synergy providing 8-15k dps is insane, but then you have to think - it doesnt benefit melee, it only benefits ranged. Magicka range dobt get more than 2-3k from it, which is fine, but stam range isnt viable without it. So I'd argue that if they want to nerf it, let them buff Bow/Bow enough to make it viable. Bow is already penalized with cast time on Lethals and any buff to that skill will *** off PvPers. So buff the passives. Make Hawkeye stack to 10 stacks and 40-50% max damage. Make accuracy give 5% crit and 170 wpn damage. Again both of the values can be balance tested and adjusted, but buffing Hawkeye is a major way to do it well imho. Especially if you buff it by requiring more stacks
  • Joxer61
    Joxer61
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    is it current (I keep seeing older dates)and more importantly...is it fun to play? ')

    (03/07/2019 - Updated for Wrathstone) found it!! but again, is it fun??
    Edited by Joxer61 on March 7, 2019 8:52PM
  • SodanTok
    SodanTok
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    SodanTok wrote: »
    SodanTok wrote: »
    Awesome. I mourned loss of your NB Bow thread back in Morrowind update. Was first and last proof bow can do some good work for many patches for me.

    Did you seb's video?

    https://youtu.be/FCcszCMw4yQ

    Now I did, crazy what the synergy does. I wonder what will happen with this synergy and bows coming next update. Looks too good to stay like this for long :|

    Here is the issue: people say it's broken and you can definitely make a case for that - a synergy providing 8-15k dps is insane, but then you have to think - it doesnt benefit melee, it only benefits ranged. Magicka range dobt get more than 2-3k from it, which is fine, but stam range isnt viable without it. So I'd argue that if they want to nerf it, let them buff Bow/Bow enough to make it viable. Bow is already penalized with cast time on Lethals and any buff to that skill will *** off PvPers. So buff the passives. Make Hawkeye stack to 10 stacks and 40-50% max damage. Make accuracy give 5% crit and 170 wpn damage. Again both of the values can be balance tested and adjusted, but buffing Hawkeye is a major way to do it well imho. Especially if you buff it by requiring more stacks

    Yup, that would be the smart way. But from past I fear they will just see single strong mechanic (trapping webs) and scale them down and totally ignore that if this is making bows performing so good they should give something in exchange. If they want bows to keep performing good. Honestly I would even prefer that way since this Synergy is way too limiting for unorganized groups. Here is hoping the recent 'popularity' is something that puts bow to their mind again and they wont shut it at peak again like they did in Morrowind update
  • hedna123b14_ESO
    hedna123b14_ESO
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    Joxer61 wrote: »
    is it current (I keep seeing older dates)and more importantly...is it fun to play? ')

    (03/07/2019 - Updated for Wrathstone) found it!! but again, is it fun??

    Loads! Surviving at range is a challenge especially when groups dont spec for it. The main requirement is Shadow Silk
  • hedna123b14_ESO
    hedna123b14_ESO
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    SodanTok wrote: »
    SodanTok wrote: »
    SodanTok wrote: »
    Awesome. I mourned loss of your NB Bow thread back in Morrowind update. Was first and last proof bow can do some good work for many patches for me.

    Did you seb's video?

    https://youtu.be/FCcszCMw4yQ

    Now I did, crazy what the synergy does. I wonder what will happen with this synergy and bows coming next update. Looks too good to stay like this for long :|

    Here is the issue: people say it's broken and you can definitely make a case for that - a synergy providing 8-15k dps is insane, but then you have to think - it doesnt benefit melee, it only benefits ranged. Magicka range dobt get more than 2-3k from it, which is fine, but stam range isnt viable without it. So I'd argue that if they want to nerf it, let them buff Bow/Bow enough to make it viable. Bow is already penalized with cast time on Lethals and any buff to that skill will *** off PvPers. So buff the passives. Make Hawkeye stack to 10 stacks and 40-50% max damage. Make accuracy give 5% crit and 170 wpn damage. Again both of the values can be balance tested and adjusted, but buffing Hawkeye is a major way to do it well imho. Especially if you buff it by requiring more stacks

    Yup, that would be the smart way. But from past I fear they will just see single strong mechanic (trapping webs) and scale them down and totally ignore that if this is making bows performing so good they should give something in exchange. If they want bows to keep performing good. Honestly I would even prefer that way since this Synergy is way too limiting for unorganized groups. Here is hoping the recent 'popularity' is something that puts bow to their mind again and they wont shut it at peak again like they did in Morrowind update

    We can hope, but they have a horrible track record...
  • Joxer61
    Joxer61
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    Joxer61 wrote: »
    is it current (I keep seeing older dates)and more importantly...is it fun to play? ')

    (03/07/2019 - Updated for Wrathstone) found it!! but again, is it fun??

    Loads! Surviving at range is a challenge especially when groups dont spec for it. The main requirement is Shadow Silk

    supplied by whom?
  • hedna123b14_ESO
    hedna123b14_ESO
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    Joxer61 wrote: »
    Joxer61 wrote: »
    is it current (I keep seeing older dates)and more importantly...is it fun to play? ')

    (03/07/2019 - Updated for Wrathstone) found it!! but again, is it fun??

    Loads! Surviving at range is a challenge especially when groups dont spec for it. The main requirement is Shadow Silk

    supplied by whom?

    Usually main tank
  • Joxer61
    Joxer61
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    Joxer61 wrote: »
    Joxer61 wrote: »
    is it current (I keep seeing older dates)and more importantly...is it fun to play? ')

    (03/07/2019 - Updated for Wrathstone) found it!! but again, is it fun??

    Loads! Surviving at range is a challenge especially when groups dont spec for it. The main requirement is Shadow Silk

    supplied by whom?

    Usually main tank

    cheers!!!
  • Joxer61
    Joxer61
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    ok, this might be a silly question but here goes....
    What makes this build stronger over a Magden build? Both are ranged dps, both use a lot of pet/class skills for attacks and both have bear.
    Is it that bow passives and such are that much stronger? And doesn't Shadow Silk work with magicka classes as well? So yea, just curious as to why one build/setup can be sooooo strong and yet its red-headed step brother (magden) blows chunks?
  • Masel
    Masel
    Class Representative
    https://youtu.be/rhYTQqxws3o

    Stamplar can do it too :smiley:

    This is not optimised yet so 53-54k is definitely doable.


    If only the cast time on lethal wouldn't snare you that much.

    I also tried crushing but it weaves horribly...
    Edited by Masel on March 7, 2019 9:55PM
    PC EU

    All Trial Trifecta Titles Done!

    Youtube:
    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UChVEG6ckuAgGs5OyA6VeisA
  • hedna123b14_ESO
    hedna123b14_ESO
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    Joxer61 wrote: »
    ok, this might be a silly question but here goes....
    What makes this build stronger over a Magden build? Both are ranged dps, both use a lot of pet/class skills for attacks and both have bear.
    Is it that bow passives and such are that much stronger? And doesn't Shadow Silk work with magicka classes as well? So yea, just curious as to why one build/setup can be sooooo strong and yet its red-headed step brother (magden) blows chunks?

    Stamina hits harder than magicka
  • Joxer61
    Joxer61
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    Joxer61 wrote: »
    ok, this might be a silly question but here goes....
    What makes this build stronger over a Magden build? Both are ranged dps, both use a lot of pet/class skills for attacks and both have bear.
    Is it that bow passives and such are that much stronger? And doesn't Shadow Silk work with magicka classes as well? So yea, just curious as to why one build/setup can be sooooo strong and yet its red-headed step brother (magden) blows chunks?

    Stamina hits harder than magicka

    lol, well that's not an elaborated reply! ;) Was hoping for a tad more but I guess a "just cuz" will have to do....
  • hedna123b14_ESO
    hedna123b14_ESO
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    Joxer61 wrote: »
    Joxer61 wrote: »
    ok, this might be a silly question but here goes....
    What makes this build stronger over a Magden build? Both are ranged dps, both use a lot of pet/class skills for attacks and both have bear.
    Is it that bow passives and such are that much stronger? And doesn't Shadow Silk work with magicka classes as well? So yea, just curious as to why one build/setup can be sooooo strong and yet its red-headed step brother (magden) blows chunks?

    Stamina hits harder than magicka

    lol, well that's not an elaborated reply! ;) Was hoping for a tad more but I guess a "just cuz" will have to do....

    Sorry. I meant to say that the synergy scales with stam and stam pen so it doesnt hit as hard on mag. As for pure range setup the damage should be fairly comparable between the two, but stam usually hits harder due to greater wpn damage scaling.
  • Joxer61
    Joxer61
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    Joxer61 wrote: »
    Joxer61 wrote: »
    ok, this might be a silly question but here goes....
    What makes this build stronger over a Magden build? Both are ranged dps, both use a lot of pet/class skills for attacks and both have bear.
    Is it that bow passives and such are that much stronger? And doesn't Shadow Silk work with magicka classes as well? So yea, just curious as to why one build/setup can be sooooo strong and yet its red-headed step brother (magden) blows chunks?

    Stamina hits harder than magicka

    lol, well that's not an elaborated reply! ;) Was hoping for a tad more but I guess a "just cuz" will have to do....

    Sorry. I meant to say that the synergy scales with stam and stam pen so it doesnt hit as hard on mag. As for pure range setup the damage should be fairly comparable between the two, but stam usually hits harder due to greater wpn damage scaling.

    But...folks doin 51k on Magden while others doing 52+k on Stam, I reckon it all comes down to what you like since neither offers "support" for the group?
  • hedna123b14_ESO
    hedna123b14_ESO
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    Joxer61 wrote: »
    Joxer61 wrote: »
    Joxer61 wrote: »
    ok, this might be a silly question but here goes....
    What makes this build stronger over a Magden build? Both are ranged dps, both use a lot of pet/class skills for attacks and both have bear.
    Is it that bow passives and such are that much stronger? And doesn't Shadow Silk work with magicka classes as well? So yea, just curious as to why one build/setup can be sooooo strong and yet its red-headed step brother (magden) blows chunks?

    Stamina hits harder than magicka

    lol, well that's not an elaborated reply! ;) Was hoping for a tad more but I guess a "just cuz" will have to do....

    Sorry. I meant to say that the synergy scales with stam and stam pen so it doesnt hit as hard on mag. As for pure range setup the damage should be fairly comparable between the two, but stam usually hits harder due to greater wpn damage scaling.

    But...folks doin 51k on Magden while others doing 52+k on Stam, I reckon it all comes down to what you like since neither offers "support" for the group?

    The main issue is stamden can be further buffed considerably more in raid with penetration. Mag is already near pen cap.
  • Joxer61
    Joxer61
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    Just realized what OP told me...the "key" is the Shadow Silk and if no one is using it and no other bow/bow then yea, you kinda hosed really. Maybe better off staying a magden...hmmmm.
    Edited by Joxer61 on March 8, 2019 6:07AM
  • Draxys
    Draxys
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    I gotta try this on stam DK when I get tzognvoins stuff. Sustain would be easy, could add acid spray for another dot. Not gonna hit like warden or NB, but could be pretty decent still
    2013

    rip decibel
  • hedna123b14_ESO
    hedna123b14_ESO
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    Draxys wrote: »
    I gotta try this on stam DK when I get tzognvoins stuff. Sustain would be easy, could add acid spray for another dot. Not gonna hit like warden or NB, but could be pretty decent still

    Yeah I'd say DK is the worst for this since none of its class skills work with it. Youd probably only be using Flames of Oblivion:(
  • MashmalloMan
    MashmalloMan
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    SodanTok wrote: »
    SodanTok wrote: »
    Awesome. I mourned loss of your NB Bow thread back in Morrowind update. Was first and last proof bow can do some good work for many patches for me.

    Did you seb's video?

    https://youtu.be/FCcszCMw4yQ

    Now I did, crazy what the synergy does. I wonder what will happen with this synergy and bows coming next update. Looks too good to stay like this for long :|

    Here is the issue: people say it's broken and you can definitely make a case for that - a synergy providing 8-15k dps is insane, but then you have to think - it doesnt benefit melee, it only benefits ranged. Magicka range dobt get more than 2-3k from it, which is fine, but stam range isnt viable without it. So I'd argue that if they want to nerf it, let them buff Bow/Bow enough to make it viable. Bow is already penalized with cast time on Lethals and any buff to that skill will *** off PvPers. So buff the passives. Make Hawkeye stack to 10 stacks and 40-50% max damage. Make accuracy give 5% crit and 170 wpn damage. Again both of the values can be balance tested and adjusted, but buffing Hawkeye is a major way to do it well imho. Especially if you buff it by requiring more stacks

    40-50% is too high, frankly it's fine the way it is and the statement "but stam range isnt viable without it" in reference to the Shadow Silk synergy just doesn't seem true.

    On some solo stam sorc parses I averaged about 43k dps in melee dw/bow, 42k dps in melee with bow/bow. The BOW from ranged bumped up to 47-48k dps from long shot. Bow can keep up minor force with Warband and doesn't need to worry about rearming trap connecting with a moving target as well as the high cost associated with sprinting in between targets or recasting the ability because it missed the moving target (we've all been there).

    DW solo parses are also a bit inflated because rending slash and axe bleeds aren't increased by higher penetration values available in group environments where penetration cap is met. Bows don't use any bleeds.

    I want bow/bow to be viable and it finally is, but for it to be stronger than melee makes no sense, it should be as strong as magicka ranged builds. Same holds true for magicka melee vs stam melee, but thats another discussion..

    Obviously there is the downside of snipe being a cast time ability/single target, arguably giving less cleave/aoe as well as susceptible to cast time cancellations from dodge rolling, blocking or interruptions, but you get the added convenience of ranged survivability, better sustain, bar space, ranged dmg uptime vs lower melee dmg uptime and a easier rotation.

    Throw in elude for a 30 sec buff on major evasion and you have the range + the mitigation of melee stam builds without a sacrifice to your bar space that some DW builds can't afford to lose to have competitive dps.

    I tested melee builds with Warband using rearming trap vs not using rearming trap and saving the bar space.

    Using Rearming Trap with a more powerful set like Advancing Yokeda pulls higher dps than Warband without Rearming Trap on melee builds. Taking the skill out of your rotation serves to lower dps by about 5%, but gives you 1 extra flex spot for melee builds, fair trade. For bow/bow builds it's a bit of a no brainer because channeled acceleration provided no dmg from the skill itself and served to slow down a rotation every 36 seconds

    This is all before you take in to account this ridiculously strong shadow silk synergy which I had no access to in my solo tests.

    Imo, bow is in a good spot, it doesn't need much. The only thing they should change is to make long shot effect all skills instead of just bow skills. This would make more bow/bow builds a little more versatile without buffing them beyond melee builds, it still requires the distance to benefit from.

    Other skill lines like DW have their skills only effect their own weapon skills so it's not really something I see happening and giving a flat buff that works in melee range will just put bow/bow above melee for no reason. There would be no purpose to choose DW or 2H with a change like more crit or dmg or +50% dmg from Hawk Eye.
    Edited by MashmalloMan on March 8, 2019 10:57PM
    PC Beta - 1900+ CP

    Stam Sorc Khajiit PvE/PVP Main || Stam Sorc Dark Elf PvP ||
    Stam Templar Dark Elf || Stam Warden Wood Elf || Stam DK Nord || Stam Necro Orc || Stam Blade Khajiit


    Mag Sorc High Elf || Mag Templar High Elf || Mag Warden Breton || Mag Necro Khajiit || Mag Blade Khajiit
  • Skullstachio
    Skullstachio
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    Shadow Silk will be easier to manage since Zos have shortened the range from which to activate Shadow Silks synergy, making it slightly easier to use.
    "When the human race learns to read the language of symbolism, a great veil will fall from the eyes of men." ~Manly P. Hall
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