The Alcast no CP vMOL run, is CP really the culprit in power creep?

TheInfernalRage · March 2019

Because it looks like the sets are also responsible.

idk · March 2019

It has been pointed out rather credibly that most of power creep has to do with changes Zos has made to the game outside of CP. With the heavy handed diminishing returns and the heavy changes to CP made in Morrowind it is hard to truly argue that CP is a major culprit in power creep.

I would suggest looking through the thread below especially at points Code makes. They post some solid information about changes Zos has made to the game that has caused the lions share of power creep. Also how Zos has created a greater divide between top dps and the bottom since Morrowind.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/461459/reworking-the-champion-point-system-to-reduce-power-creep/p1

Also, this thread.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/457290/the-real-source-of-power-creep

This is not to say CP does not deserve a review. But it seems to be the easy target for many to blame on power creep.

Edit: I am also not saying Code is infallible. We already addressed in the first link that they are not a 9th Divine.

ccfeeling · March 2019

Please dont take Alcast or Hodor as the reference, they are not human.

idk · March 2019

ccfeeling wrote: »

Please dont take Alcast or Hodor as the reference, they are not human.

The Matrix came to mind when I read this. They see the 1s and 0s.

firedrgn · March 2019

Ya whats with all the no cp videos popping up on my utube feed
Gandok has a vma flawless
And hodor also has a vmol
Obviously people can play pvp and pve without cp why force it on everyone.

Is this a brag thing or an agenda?

zvavi · March 2019

well, they finished all the hardest content and want more, new challenges, i assume.

Kikke · March 2019

WTB no-cp PvE difficulty with "The Insane" titles all around xD

Rikumaru · March 2019

CP was the cause for all the nerfs many years ago to the classes. Sets at present time are causing issues. I don't see why people are resistant for both to be changed and for classes to get rebuffed. Would you rather see a boring stat increase over every class or interesting class defining passives and skills for your class? Cause I sure in hell know which I would choose.

Also not too sure why some people are underplaying increases to damages such as dot dmg by 25%, direct dmg by 25%, critical damage by 25% and physical / magical damages by 15%.

Morgul667 · March 2019

Always said CP are only part of the problem and at least you dont need to pay for them (like DLC sets)

I think CP is just the culprit

WeyounTM · March 2019

Balancing the game around the achievements of the 1% people never seems to be the correct idea imho. And argueably Hodor are the 1% OF the 1% as far as skill level is concerned. So while a lot of people struggle to get a vMoL run done in the first place, Hodor might do it blind, naked and with one hand tied behind their backs...

I bet that ZOS has a lot of data concerning who has done which achievement, how many accounts have done a flawless vMA etc. ! And while the 1% crazy skill DPS guys are pretty vocal in their demands to change aspects of the game, ZOS might have another vision altogether....

Lets see that vision first (maybe they will tell us soon @ZOS_GinaBruno ? ) before making any bold claims...

And yes, I am not the guy to ask for balancing either....I am way to old to compete with the elite in any game these days and enjoy the game playing at a more basic and casual level...
Speaking of which...I started playing my NA toons these days again. And I can tell you when you start out in this game with basically nothing, even clearing a simple dolmen can take time by yourself (even if you have experience and won't die and don't spam light attacks or Snipe

)

AbysmalGhul · March 2019

I still don't see how "power creep" is a problem

Good job to the Hodor crew!

Skwor · March 2019

Power creep is not a problem if an MMO scales correctly. CP is not cuasing power creep.

Gear is one cuase for power creep.

One Tamrial has forced a locked level allowing no scaling to character growth for overland content. This cuases the appearance of power creep.

One shot mechanics have been used in a way that has allowed avoiding the creation of mechanics that are diffulcult and engaging requiring a team effort of healing, buffing and DPS. Ergo our current issue where many encountrrs are just churn and burn DPS teams

ESO needs to get over the fear of the MMO trinity, embrace it and let healing, tanking and buffing return to group encounters.
This will also improve the social community of the game as we will once again have to rely on players with a different approach to the game, not all focused on DPS.

olsborg · March 2019

ccfeeling wrote: »

Please dont take Alcast or Hodor as the reference, they are not human.

They are human, but they dont rly have regular human lives, I dare say.

ezio45 · March 2019

ccfeeling wrote: »

Please dont take Alcast or Hodor as the reference, they are not human.

ya, but they are the best and that is who zos has been balancing for

Rungar · March 2019

they keep making light attacks stronger.

this doesnt require an analysis. lol.

Rex-Umbra · March 2019

Animation canceling top end macros are power creep

ezio45 · March 2019

personally i have thought for a long time that the power creep (if there is one for anyone besides the top 1%) is based on the newer sets.

Iskiab · March 2019

olsborg wrote: »

ccfeeling wrote: »

Please dont take Alcast or Hodor as the reference, they are not human.

They are human, but they dont rly have regular human lives, I dare say.

Of course they killed vMoL. How do you kill that which have no lives?

JinMori · March 2019

Make a m+ like difficulty for dungeons and trials, so the power creep is out of the window (at least in pve in pvp they will have to rebalance a few things, but as many said, just separate the 2)and we can finally progress, instead of regress.

frostz417 · March 2019

Cp is not the cause of powercreep
People who frame it provide no facts or argument behind it. Especially zos. They just make bs statements based on belief.
The real issue here is the over powered sets introduced EVERY patch. As well as dps perfecting their rotations.

Mr_Walker · March 2019

idk wrote: »

It has been pointed out rather credibly that most of power creep has to do with changes Zos has made to the game outside of CP.

"rather credibly"

The people blaming CP for Power Creep are clowns. Simple maths informs you that CP is heavily front loaded. You're not going from 20K cp to 50 on CP alone.

People need to have a think before repeating twaddle on the net.

Mr_Walker · March 2019

zvavi wrote: »

well, they finished all the hardest content and want more, new challenges, i assume.

Cure cancer.

Seriously, looking at the achievements of elite players, and extrapolating anything from that is stupid. Designing any content in a game around what very very few people can do is a recipe for failure.

NupidStoob · March 2019

Whats the point of this post? I've not seen a single person that claimed that everything about power creep is solely CP. Everyone agrees that it's multiple sources. The only thing that is worth arguing about is how much impact each portion has.

If you have all of them use 2 year old sets and food with max CP they will do this with a lot less trouble.

What the 0.001% of the playerbase can do should merely be an indicator of what is possible if you go to absolute extremes and not an indicator for actual balance.

Adzer2 · March 2019

Mr_Walker wrote: »

zvavi wrote: »

well, they finished all the hardest content and want more, new challenges, i assume.

Cure cancer.

Seriously, looking at the achievements of elite players, and extrapolating anything from that is stupid. Designing any content in a game around what very very few people can do is a recipe for failure.

The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few rings true here, while there are players who play ESO on 24/7 basis, they need to cater for the players who don't get the time to farm for 6 hours looking for equipment or learning mechanics of vMA over and over

Mr_Walker · March 2019

Adzer2 wrote: »

Mr_Walker wrote: »

zvavi wrote: »

well, they finished all the hardest content and want more, new challenges, i assume.

Cure cancer.

Seriously, looking at the achievements of elite players, and extrapolating anything from that is stupid. Designing any content in a game around what very very few people can do is a recipe for failure.

The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few rings true here, while there are players who play ESO on 24/7 basis, they need to cater for the players who don't get the time to farm for 6 hours looking for equipment or learning mechanics of vMA over and over

Tchoh. Filthy casual!

JinMori · March 2019

Adzer2 wrote: »

Mr_Walker wrote: »

zvavi wrote: »

well, they finished all the hardest content and want more, new challenges, i assume.

Cure cancer.

Seriously, looking at the achievements of elite players, and extrapolating anything from that is stupid. Designing any content in a game around what very very few people can do is a recipe for failure.

The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few rings true here, while there are players who play ESO on 24/7 basis, they need to cater for the players who don't get the time to farm for 6 hours looking for equipment or learning mechanics of vMA over and over

The very few are the ones who provide 90 % of the jobs, think of this when you say things like this.

Design soley for elite is not good, and neither is the contrary

validifyedneb18_ESO · March 2019

Sets like relequens definitely added a *** load of power creep. Its just so much better than everything else, giving a stacking effect that becomes huge, while other older top tier sets like Hundings are flat buff sets that cant compete in a pure single target environment.

It's also destroying build diversity. Or destroyed it, a long time ago.

fastolfv_ESO · March 2019

well since he still suggests to stop on round numbers to people its very possible he isnt assigning cp correctly anyways so less of an impact

Donny_Vito · March 2019

fastolfv_ESO wrote: »

well since he still suggests to stop on round numbers to people its very possible he isnt assigning cp correctly anyways so less of an impact

This was fixed a few patches ago, right? Will need to dive into the patch notes to verify, but pretty sure I saw this as a fix awhile ago.

JinMori · March 2019

validifyedneb18_ESO wrote: »

Sets like relequens definitely added a *** load of power creep. Its just so much better than everything else, giving a stacking effect that becomes huge, while other older top tier sets like Hundings are flat buff sets that cant compete in a pure single target environment.

It's also destroying build diversity. Or destroyed it, a long time ago.

I said it many times and i will say it again, saying that power creep is caused by sets, cp etc, i find that narrowsighthed, the fault is on the devs, it;s the devs that implement these things, it;s the devs that don;t think, or don't wanna implement ways to counteract the growth in power, instead nerfing each and every patch, because it requires less effort than making new stuff, earlier i suggested a m+ system, akin the wow dungeons, this way, you have content for the hardcore, and the casual., and they won;t have to nerf each patch to make up for the increase in power, instead we could actually see some real progression, this way cp will basically become a no problem is pve at least.

But the devs are more focused on creating things that give them money directly, like crown store or content, which is why this will probably never happen until the problem is so big that a good portion of the population will just leave.

TequilaFire · March 2019

CP, or sets? BS hodor can do it without CP and naked because of knowledge, teamwork and skill.
Completion time will be the only variable.