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Weird Science meets Weird Nerfs (don't be a Chet)
elijafire
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As you wonderful people at zos attempt to create the perfect game (as the weird sience guys did in the movie of the same name) you are starting to create more of a Chet instead. If you don't know who Chet is then hear he is in all his splendor for your viewing pleasure!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YIYJpbAK6MY[url="http://"][/url]
I really feel bad for the original designers of some of these sets/abilities when they watch as a perfectly good design gets nerfed to uselessness on every level because of misinformation.
So I have been trying my hardest to figure out how/why certain sets and abilities are being nerfed when equally powerful sets/abilities have been aloud to exist since beta with zero or superficial nerfs to them.
At first I just chalked it up to the decision maker(s) being very biased to one specific class/play-style so they would just nerf everything that was a remote threat to them. It may sound a bit conspiratorial but hey, the facts speak for themselves and after 4 years of the same crap happening it becomes excruciatingly obvious.
For the record this is the last time I'll try to help you out ZoS if you allow your "moderators" to delete this benign attempt then so be it. Any words that may offend you are not intended as insults, they are purely factual and concise vocabulary
I wouldn't even care but I really like the game and a lot of the people who work there so here goes yet another shot at trying to help yall.
I will avoid using any specific examples in this address because I would like people to focus on the root causes of this continuing problem:
So mulling this over I finally came to the logical fruition of the evidence and here are my conclusions.
1) From my personal experience many reasonable voices on this forum in particular have been drowned out by selective and biased "moderating" which is funny because in their attempt to control or "moderate" us. They themselves have become (or are just revealed as) extreme. Forums tend to moderate themselves as people ignore or give sound logical arguments for or against they don't need biased moderation based on vague presumptions.
2) They are getting their analytics from unreliable or incompetence sources often both. When you don't pay people for their work, you are not entitled to their full disclosure.
Before you should decide to nerf something you should probably, oh I don't know, actually do Analytics on said thing. If you insist on relying heavily on inexperienced and highly biased player bases then may I suggest you at least do some analytics on THEM.
For example:
Do they have 100 hours logged on PTS or Live using said set/ability they wish to see nerfed?
Have they spent those 100+ hours of using the set/ability in various scenarios? i.e. Trials (12 AND 4 man vet) BG's and AvA? Or is it extremely lopsided?
Have they used the set/ability on multiple classes and races?
If all these criteria have been met then you should probably say as long as 1000 people who have met this criteria agree that the set/ability is too powerful, only THEN should you consider a nerf and at that time you should probably ASK by how much. Simply cutting everything in half is lazy and counterproductive.
Just being on the receiving end of it and/or just reading the description and saying (yeah we think its OP cut it ALL in half!) does not count for anything, it's worse than useless.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YIYJpbAK6MY[url="http://"][/url]I really feel bad for the original designers of some of these sets/abilities when they watch as a perfectly good design gets nerfed to uselessness on every level because of misinformation.
So I have been trying my hardest to figure out how/why certain sets and abilities are being nerfed when equally powerful sets/abilities have been aloud to exist since beta with zero or superficial nerfs to them.
At first I just chalked it up to the decision maker(s) being very biased to one specific class/play-style so they would just nerf everything that was a remote threat to them. It may sound a bit conspiratorial but hey, the facts speak for themselves and after 4 years of the same crap happening it becomes excruciatingly obvious.
For the record this is the last time I'll try to help you out ZoS if you allow your "moderators" to delete this benign attempt then so be it. Any words that may offend you are not intended as insults, they are purely factual and concise vocabulary
I wouldn't even care but I really like the game and a lot of the people who work there so here goes yet another shot at trying to help yall.
I will avoid using any specific examples in this address because I would like people to focus on the root causes of this continuing problem:
So mulling this over I finally came to the logical fruition of the evidence and here are my conclusions.
1) From my personal experience many reasonable voices on this forum in particular have been drowned out by selective and biased "moderating" which is funny because in their attempt to control or "moderate" us. They themselves have become (or are just revealed as) extreme. Forums tend to moderate themselves as people ignore or give sound logical arguments for or against they don't need biased moderation based on vague presumptions.
2) They are getting their analytics from unreliable or incompetence sources often both. When you don't pay people for their work, you are not entitled to their full disclosure.
Before you should decide to nerf something you should probably, oh I don't know, actually do Analytics on said thing. If you insist on relying heavily on inexperienced and highly biased player bases then may I suggest you at least do some analytics on THEM.
For example:
Do they have 100 hours logged on PTS or Live using said set/ability they wish to see nerfed?
Have they spent those 100+ hours of using the set/ability in various scenarios? i.e. Trials (12 AND 4 man vet) BG's and AvA? Or is it extremely lopsided?
Have they used the set/ability on multiple classes and races?
If all these criteria have been met then you should probably say as long as 1000 people who have met this criteria agree that the set/ability is too powerful, only THEN should you consider a nerf and at that time you should probably ASK by how much. Simply cutting everything in half is lazy and counterproductive.
Just being on the receiving end of it and/or just reading the description and saying (yeah we think its OP cut it ALL in half!) does not count for anything, it's worse than useless.
5
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sneakymitchell✭✭✭✭That’s how it is if one thing is overpeforming and the rest ain’t used. It’s like what the point of this set when this set is three times as good than the other one.
It just makes all your designs on the game just pointless and nothing interesting therefore you will lose player base. But if you try a different approach those player will stay (well some). Got to keep the game enjoyable to all and make them run their own builds.NA-Xbox one- Ebonheart Pact- Nord Tank DK
PC-NA Ebonheart Pact Nord Stam Templar5 -
elijafire✭✭✭Yep. What I'm confused about is why I am still using the same OP sets from 4 years ago.3
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elijafire✭✭✭5 years in April, same OP sets. Any sets that MAY have even competed with them got nerfed to junk before seeing the light of day... rather odd.0
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Murador178✭✭✭✭5 years in April, same OP sets. Any sets that MAY have even competed with them got nerfed to junk before seeing the light of day... rather odd.
Which sets are refering too - and in which environment are u using it, there are quite alot of good sets for different builds and I wouldnt use the same sets on most classes builds in PvP - I dont play trials and rest can be done in a PvP build anyways
. 0 -
ChunkyCat✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭The majority of people don’t like change. That goes for people in all walks of life, not just this game.
So when ZoS introduces a new set that has even the slight potential of altering any established Meta, then that set is going to get nerfed into the dirt after everyone complains about how “op” it’s going to be.
Those people can’t allow anything that would alter the way they play the game. They’ll whine and cry as much as they have to in order to preserve their play style.
Ultimately, as any good business will do, ZoS will cater to whatever the vocal majority says.
C’est la vie.Edited by ChunkyCat on March 7, 2019 4:00AM1 -
IzzyStardust✭✭✭✭✭
✭As you wonderful people at zos attempt to create the perfect game (as the weird sience guys did in the movie of the same name) you are starting to create more of a Chet instead. If you don't know who Chet is then hear he is in all his splendor for your viewing pleasure!https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YIYJpbAK6MY[url="http://"][/url]
I really feel bad for the original designers of some of these sets/abilities when they watch as a perfectly good design gets nerfed to uselessness on every level because of misinformation.
So I have been trying my hardest to figure out how/why certain sets and abilities are being nerfed when equally powerful sets/abilities have been aloud to exist since beta with zero or superficial nerfs to them.
At first I just chalked it up to the decision maker(s) being very biased to one specific class/play-style so they would just nerf everything that was a remote threat to them. It may sound a bit conspiratorial but hey, the facts speak for themselves and after 4 years of the same crap happening it becomes excruciatingly obvious.
For the record this is the last time I'll try to help you out ZoS if you allow your "moderators" to delete this benign attempt then so be it. Any words that may offend you are not intended as insults, they are purely factual and concise vocabulary
I wouldn't even care but I really like the game and a lot of the people who work there so here goes yet another shot at trying to help yall.
I will avoid using any specific examples in this address because I would like people to focus on the root causes of this continuing problem:
So mulling this over I finally came to the logical fruition of the evidence and here are my conclusions.
1) From my personal experience many reasonable voices on this forum in particular have been drowned out by selective and biased "moderating" which is funny because in their attempt to control or "moderate" us. They themselves have become (or are just revealed as) extreme. Forums tend to moderate themselves as people ignore or give sound logical arguments for or against they don't need biased moderation based on vague presumptions.
2) They are getting their analytics from unreliable or incompetence sources often both. When you don't pay people for their work, you are not entitled to their full disclosure.
Before you should decide to nerf something you should probably, oh I don't know, actually do Analytics on said thing. If you insist on relying heavily on inexperienced and highly biased player bases then may I suggest you at least do some analytics on THEM.
For example:
Do they have 100 hours logged on PTS or Live using said set/ability they wish to see nerfed?
Have they spent those 100+ hours of using the set/ability in various scenarios? i.e. Trials (12 AND 4 man vet) BG's and AvA? Or is it extremely lopsided?
Have they used the set/ability on multiple classes and races?
If all these criteria have been met then you should probably say as long as 1000 people who have met this criteria agree that the set/ability is too powerful, only THEN should you consider a nerf and at that time you should probably ASK by how much. Simply cutting everything in half is lazy and counterproductive.
Just being on the receiving end of it and/or just reading the description and saying (yeah we think its OP cut it ALL in half!) does not count for anything, it's worse than useless.
Um the boys were making a WOMAN and the WOMAN made the CHET! xD Do not be messin' with Weird Science!1 -
elijafire✭✭✭IzzyStardust wrote: »Um the boys were making a WOMAN and the WOMAN made the CHET! xD Do not be messin' with Weird Science!
So I'm confused who gets credit for The Chet?0 -
NordSwordnBoard✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭IzzyStardust wrote: »Um the boys were making a WOMAN and the WOMAN made the CHET! xD Do not be messin' with Weird Science!
So I'm confused who gets credit for The Chet?
Bill PaxtonFear is the Mindkiller1 -
Dreyloch✭✭✭✭✭OP, here is the flaw in your system.
It's pretty simple and I've preached it till I'm blue in the face. Sets get nerfed because there isn't a TOTAL disconnect of usage between PvE and PvP. Until ZoS decides to put forth effort into making this happen. We will continue to see nerfs on sets.
Just a couple of examples.
Earthgore: Great for PvE. A plague on PvP and got nerfed (and maybe even getting nerfed some more)
Troll King: Same thing
Malubeth: You got it, same thing
Sloads: Yep, do I need say more?
Unless the devs start making sets that have procs that can only be used in one type of play or the other, we will see nerfs for the rest of this game's life. There are plenty of games in the present and past that have done this right. I'm willing to bet most (if any) type of proc sets like we have with ESO are ever nerfed in those games. Because the devs from those games understood there needed to be a disconnect between the 2 styles of play.
It really could be very simple. The sets we get or can buy in Cyrodiil (I.E. rewards of the worthy, or in Cyrodiil towns)could be reworked to only allow damage, extra healing, and buffs while only in PvP enviroments. We could go further and change what happens with skills and abilities while in those enviroments too. So if your fireball does 10k damage in Cyrodiil or BG's, it only does 1k in PvE, and vice versa for PvE sets.
I understand this would make some people grumble, and they want to play only one style and have the same power on both sides.... Well uh, that's kinda what we have now, and we all know it's totally imbalanced no matter what the devs do. I have PvE toons. I have even more PvP toons. I understand that if I want to be great at both and not just so-so. I have to put forth the effort to get the proper gear in BOTH styles of play. Much of the playerbase just doesn't want to make that effort. So they scream and cry about it (especially in PvP) until really cool sets just get nerfed into oblivion=(
For the record: Kelly Lebrock was quite the stunner in that movie. That accent just melts me ; )Edited by Dreyloch on April 11, 2019 4:19AM"The fear of Death, is often worse than death itself"0 -
Wuuffyy✭✭✭✭✭
✭OP, here is the flaw in your system.
It's pretty simple and I've preached it till I'm blue in the face. Sets get nerfed because there isn't a TOTAL disconnect of usage between PvE and PvP. Until ZoS decides to put forth effort into making this happen. We will continue to see nerfs on sets.
Just a couple of examples.
Earthgore: Great for PvE. A plague on PvP and got nerfed (and maybe even getting nerfed some more)
Troll King: Same thing
Malubeth: You got it, same thing
Sloads: Yep, do I need say more?
Unless the devs start making sets that have procs that can only be used in one type of play or the other, we will see nerfs for the rest of this game's life. There are plenty of games in the present and past that have done this right. I'm willing to bet most (if any) type of proc sets like we have with ESO are ever nerfed in those games. Because the devs from those games understood there needed to be a disconnect between the 2 styles of play.
It really could be very simple. The sets we get or can buy in Cyrodiil (I.E. rewards of the worthy, or in Cyrodiil towns)could be reworked to only allow damage, extra healing, and buffs while only in PvP enviroments. We could go further and change what happens with skills and abilities while in those enviroments too. So if your fireball does 10k damage in Cyrodiil or BG's, it only does 1k in PvE, and vice versa for PvE sets.
I understand this would make some people grumble, and they want to play only one style and have the same power on both sides.... Well uh, that's kinda what we have now, and we all know it's totally imbalanced no matter what the devs do. I have PvE toons. I have even more PvP toons. I understand that if I want to be great at both and not just so-so. I have to put forth the effort to get the proper gear in BOTH styles of play. Much of the playerbase just doesn't want to make that effort. So they scream and cry about it (especially in PvP) until really cool sets just get nerfed into oblivion=(
For the record: Kelly Lebrock was quite the stunner in that movie. That accent just melts me ; )
That’s not it. Your pve boys want more of a challenged and some type of progression so you guys are the same amount of the nerf waves as pvpers.Wuuffyy,
WW/berserker playstyle advocate (I play ALL classes proficiently in PvP outside of WW as well)
ESO player since 2014 (Xbox and PC for PTS)
-DM for questions0