Forum [snip] won. Sieges got nerfed back. Pity.

WuffyCerulei · March 2019

ThErE wAs No LaG tHoUgH!!!!1!!! There was no lag because half the people didn’t want to pvp during that week. I didn’t. But I do now, as I can actually counter the damage instead of playing siege simulator.

Neoauspex · March 2019

Jeremy wrote: »

Cathexis wrote: »

Savos_Saren wrote: »

Oh no! One-shotting people while naked on top of a keep wall is gone? But those skillz, tho...

I guess people will actually have to fight people with weapon/class skills. It’s a shame that people will have to put effort in combat now.

If you can't stand the heat, get out of cyrodiil.

Cyrodiil is for big boys who put on their big boy pants and fight high damage seige, even solo. You think we used to have potato cannons back in the early days? Hayl naw brethren we used to get slammed by mighty seige and defend ourselves with active abilities like pros and gods. Sometimes for hours and hours. You can't handle a lowbie-noobcake sitting on a wall with a fire ballista? Suck it up princess. It's this kind of pussism that has made cyrodiil a flacid sea of tanks fighting with pool noodles. It's PVP NOT ROLEPLAY HOUR. You are not entitled to victory because you have the best gear and can rotate.

Carebears need to grow a pair and step out of their roleplay-zerg-train-safe-space.

The problem is the change didn't discourage huge zergs. Quite the opposite - it made them necessary because there is no way a smaller army could take a castle or keep with siege engines doing so much damage. So unless you wanted sieges to become a massive zerg-only affair - these changes needed to be fixed.

So do you believe that performance has improved since the last patch? This is a divisive issue, but I am happy to adapt to any play style except lag.

Flame_of_Hades · March 2019

I love the the defenders of this bug are like "it helps us kill zergs!"

all the while, i'm playing the mini-game "avoid the 5 coldfire ballista" every time I try to 1vx.

BTW, this bug made taking a defended keep IMPOSSIBLE within the no-cp Campaign, UNLESS you were a ball zerg with a purge bot.

Minno · March 2019

WuffyCerulei wrote: »

ThErE wAs No LaG tHoUgH!!!!1!!! There was no lag because half the people didn’t want to pvp during that week. I didn’t. But I do now, as I can actually counter the damage instead of playing siege simulator.

lol I saw pop locked weekend primetime campaign slot at a contested keep fight; minimal lag that even went away after players died. But I could bar swap+cast jabs and the frames didnt studder. I am not the only player that noticed; a bunch of players (solo oddly enough lol) even Miat, said cyro was perfect performance during siege being OP dropping zerglings left and right lol.

After the bug fix, was 9am in cyro 2 bar pop and it felt exactly like weekend primetime with siege bug lol. Except jabs/dark flare casting took an extra second to fire. First fight I was in was a zerg-slam on bleaks FD.

technohic · March 2019

Yeah first fight I was in last night was showing up at a keep then going up to see whats going on and "Oh look. ALL of EP is here."

Im not sold that it stopped all the ball groups. The raid stacks though liked to lemming into it in mass.

Cathexis · March 2019

Flame_of_Hades wrote: »

I love the the defenders of this bug are like "it helps us kill zergs!"

all the while, i'm playing the mini-game "avoid the 5 coldfire ballista" every time I try to 1vx.

BTW, this bug made taking a defended keep IMPOSSIBLE within the no-cp Campaign, UNLESS you were a ball zerg with a purge bot.

Jeremy wrote: »

Cathexis wrote: »

Savos_Saren wrote: »

Oh no! One-shotting people while naked on top of a keep wall is gone? But those skillz, tho...

I guess people will actually have to fight people with weapon/class skills. It’s a shame that people will have to put effort in combat now.

If you can't stand the heat, get out of cyrodiil.

Cyrodiil is for big boys who put on their big boy pants and fight high damage seige, even solo. You think we used to have potato cannons back in the early days? Hayl naw brethren we used to get slammed by mighty seige and defend ourselves with active abilities like pros and gods. Sometimes for hours and hours. You can't handle a lowbie-noobcake sitting on a wall with a fire ballista? [snip]. It's this kind of [snip] that has made cyrodiil a [snip] sea of tanks fighting with pool noodles. It's PVP NOT ROLEPLAY HOUR. You are not entitled to victory because you have the best gear and can rotate.

[snip]

The problem is the change didn't discourage huge zergs. Quite the opposite - it made them necessary because there is no way a smaller army could take a castle or keep with siege engines doing so much damage. So unless you wanted sieges to become a massive zerg-only affair - these changes needed to be fixed.

My argument would be that these are a problem with small scale/solo balance and not a problem with seige balance.

You should be playing avoid the ballista solo. The fact that you want to stand idle in 5 seige should tell you something. You should also be able to down someone operating a ballista in open combat without it taking an hour. Also I don't recall small scale having that much of a problem taking keeps with high damage seige in the past - largely you had to strategize how you took keeps more carefully in a small scale; which meant the use of stealth, 50/50, and observing keeps for weaknesses, and operating with speed. Also hitting back with high damage seige. Because the thing was, players couldn't just stand around and get pounded. You couldn't just stand on a wall before, because that was actually hazardous.

Davadin · March 2019

Cathexis wrote: »

Flame_of_Hades wrote: »

I love the the defenders of this bug are like "it helps us kill zergs!"

all the while, i'm playing the mini-game "avoid the 5 coldfire ballista" every time I try to 1vx.

BTW, this bug made taking a defended keep IMPOSSIBLE within the no-cp Campaign, UNLESS you were a ball zerg with a purge bot.

Jeremy wrote: »

Cathexis wrote: »

Savos_Saren wrote: »

Oh no! One-shotting people while naked on top of a keep wall is gone? But those skillz, tho...

I guess people will actually have to fight people with weapon/class skills. It’s a shame that people will have to put effort in combat now.

If you can't stand the heat, get out of cyrodiil.

Cyrodiil is for big boys who put on their big boy pants and fight high damage seige, even solo. You think we used to have potato cannons back in the early days? Hayl naw brethren we used to get slammed by mighty seige and defend ourselves with active abilities like pros and gods. Sometimes for hours and hours. You can't handle a lowbie-noobcake sitting on a wall with a fire ballista? [snip]. It's this kind of [snip] that has made cyrodiil a [snip] sea of tanks fighting with pool noodles. It's PVP NOT ROLEPLAY HOUR. You are not entitled to victory because you have the best gear and can rotate.

[snip]

The problem is the change didn't discourage huge zergs. Quite the opposite - it made them necessary because there is no way a smaller army could take a castle or keep with siege engines doing so much damage. So unless you wanted sieges to become a massive zerg-only affair - these changes needed to be fixed.

My argument would be that these are a problem with small scale/solo balance and not a problem with seige balance.

You should be playing avoid the ballista solo. The fact that you want to stand idle in 5 seige should tell you something. You should also be able to down someone operating a ballista in open combat without it taking an hour. Also I don't recall small scale having that much of a problem taking keeps with high damage seige in the past - largely you had to strategize how you took keeps more carefully in a small scale; which meant the use of stealth, 50/50, and observing keeps for weaknesses, and operating with speed. Also hitting back with high damage seige. Because the thing was, players couldn't just stand around and get pounded. You couldn't just stand on a wall before, because that was actually hazardous.

I swear, all these years in Cyrodiil, most people still don't get this: if you got TWO openings when attacking a keep, your rate of success shoots up exponentially.

don't brute force on one opening and getting slaughtered and AP-farmed by the defender...

InvictusApollo · March 2019

It was awesome when sieges were buffed.
It is boring and laggy now that they are back to being useless.

WuffyCerulei wrote: »

ThErE wAs No LaG tHoUgH!!!!1!!! There was no lag because half the people didn’t want to pvp during that week. I didn’t. But I do now, as I can actually counter the damage instead of playing siege simulator.

Yeah... Campaigns had the same amount of people as allways every time I checked. However in prime time when all sides were at population capacity we still enjoyed playable ping level.

Minalan · March 2019

The bug required attackers to stagger lines of siege and coordinate fire from further back. Defenders could rush the siege line and burn some of them. It was kind of fun.

Now it's an ocean of yellow ball groups happily standing in red siege circles, and taking hot oil baths, and they have exactly one batting ram on the door.

How is this better?

Someone needs to fix this. I died a few times to siege last week and didn't regret any of them.

bpmachete · March 2019

I'm on xbox so the seige changes have not come through yet. I was outnumbered 25 to 2 a couple of days ago at a keep, and I placed a triangle of cold fire ballistas aiming at the zerg by the ram trying to do something and I repeatedly hit them about 30 times and they stayed in their tight group just chilling in the cold fire.

Weapons are made to be effective, having stronger seige makes sense, maybe not as strong as the glitch but strong enough to be able to counter the skilled zergs on the rams.

Xsorus · March 2019

The only people *** siege damage benefits is zergball guild groups.

Because if they get in, they kill all the non zergball players and solo players don’t have 10 healers or siege shield available like zerg groups do.

Heimpai · March 2019

It was fun, they should have just half nerfed it..ballistas hitting my non tanky nb for 2-4k is kinda pathetic

My light attacks do more damage 🤔

Minno · March 2019

Minalan wrote: »

The bug required attackers to stagger lines of siege and coordinate fire from further back. Defenders could rush the siege line and burn some of them. It was kind of fun.

Now it's an ocean of yellow ball groups happily standing in red siege circles, and taking hot oil baths, and they have exactly one batting ram on the door.

How is this better?

Someone needs to fix this. I died a few times to siege last week and didn't regret any of them.

Now that I think about it, this is exactly why nCP was strangely less laggy than vivec. All the bad lowbie players were dying to siege and NPC guards lol.

They should now remove all doors from cyro, but buff siege /guards to be crazy strong. Bring back the dropped NPCs!

FleetwoodSmack · March 2019

Cathexis wrote: »

Flame_of_Hades wrote: »

I love the the defenders of this bug are like "it helps us kill zergs!"

all the while, i'm playing the mini-game "avoid the 5 coldfire ballista" every time I try to 1vx.

BTW, this bug made taking a defended keep IMPOSSIBLE within the no-cp Campaign, UNLESS you were a ball zerg with a purge bot.

Jeremy wrote: »

Cathexis wrote: »

Savos_Saren wrote: »

Oh no! One-shotting people while naked on top of a keep wall is gone? But those skillz, tho...

I guess people will actually have to fight people with weapon/class skills. It’s a shame that people will have to put effort in combat now.

If you can't stand the heat, get out of cyrodiil.

Cyrodiil is for big boys who put on their big boy pants and fight high damage seige, even solo. You think we used to have potato cannons back in the early days? Hayl naw brethren we used to get slammed by mighty seige and defend ourselves with active abilities like pros and gods. Sometimes for hours and hours. You can't handle a lowbie-noobcake sitting on a wall with a fire ballista? [snip]. It's this kind of [snip] that has made cyrodiil a [snip] sea of tanks fighting with pool noodles. It's PVP NOT ROLEPLAY HOUR. You are not entitled to victory because you have the best gear and can rotate.

[snip]

The problem is the change didn't discourage huge zergs. Quite the opposite - it made them necessary because there is no way a smaller army could take a castle or keep with siege engines doing so much damage. So unless you wanted sieges to become a massive zerg-only affair - these changes needed to be fixed.

My argument would be that these are a problem with small scale/solo balance and not a problem with seige balance.

You should be playing avoid the ballista solo. The fact that you want to stand idle in 5 seige should tell you something. You should also be able to down someone operating a ballista in open combat without it taking an hour. Also I don't recall small scale having that much of a problem taking keeps with high damage seige in the past - largely you had to strategize how you took keeps more carefully in a small scale; which meant the use of stealth, 50/50, and observing keeps for weaknesses, and operating with speed. Also hitting back with high damage seige. Because the thing was, players couldn't just stand around and get pounded. You couldn't just stand on a wall before, because that was actually hazardous.

Dood, you gonna give me a sads thinking of all of those good days where actual strategy and gameplay was a thing... Nowdays Tinder has more competitive gameplay than Cyrodiil. It's sad and disappointing.

I'm one of those annoying healers that can stand in 5-6 siege and not even blink without the bug. And that's after I've literally nerfed myself. I don't use Earthgore (even though I want to sometimes, it's still overkill). I don't run huge groups (usually it's just one other person and I) and I'm either usually the tanky distraction or I'm rezzing people out on the battlefield. It's gotten to the point where it's just boring to continue. I remember when I'd grab the "OhSithis" handle when I seen siege. I remember how much it hurt. I also remember getting snared in oils and getting rolled and then teabagged- which I took as a compliment because it means I did my job to make the enemy hate me.

Guh. I better stop because this is going to probably turn into another RIP Cyrodiil thread.

ATomiX96 · March 2019

Davadin wrote: »

ATomiX96 wrote: »

Ah! I knew it, here is the first zergling thread complaining about siege no longer 1 shotting because they were broken, back to snipe spam.

i'm against zergling, that's why i'm sad siege is no longer "1-shotting" because it's the ONLY reason we have a countermeasure for zerglings.....

Ah yes anti zergling, when 20 people chase 4 people and start building up their siege in the middle of nowhere because its their only source of significant damage, or dont even chase into towers without placing 3 meatbags and 2 trebuchets to cover all of the tower.

VaranisArano · March 2019

ATomiX96 wrote: »

Davadin wrote: »

ATomiX96 wrote: »

Ah! I knew it, here is the first zergling thread complaining about siege no longer 1 shotting because they were broken, back to snipe spam.

i'm against zergling, that's why i'm sad siege is no longer "1-shotting" because it's the ONLY reason we have a countermeasure for zerglings.....

Ah yes anti zergling, when 20 people chase 4 people and start building up their siege in the middle of nowhere, or dont even chase into towers without placing 3 meatbags and 2 trebuchets to cover all of the tower.

See, that's just a proper response to a 4-man group of tower farmers who've probably been farming the random players who come at them in onesies and twosies for the last hour.

Sorry, I don't have a lot of respect for the "ring-around-the-resource" playstyle even though I'm sure its fun for the people who do it. Why on earth would anyone want to fight them on their own ground, at their own game, unless its a dueling tournament or something?

cazlonb16_ESO · March 2019

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

It is funny that ZOS did this by accident... and almost every one was like: It is brilliant ! ! Keep it as it is !
Seriously, No ball groups and cyro PvP was actually working... The lag was minimal. In fact it was even better than during double AP events... I guess we are not allowed to have nice things in this game, as long as it is being balanced for the 2 - 7 % of its player base....

The opposite was true actually, ball groups and PvDers were the only ones who could achieve anything at all anymore.

For a week it was kinda fun, but longterm it would have killed what is left of Cyrodiil.

Vandark · March 2019

This thread is a nice demonstration of how rotten ESO´s community is today. Players complain about other players who actually just want some siege weapons which should work as intended.

There is no good reason for repatching the dmg down. Performance issues? ok then ZOS just should fully delete all siege weapons and keeps are just there to look nice *facepalm*

You are not good enough to kill players without? Seriously, if u make comments like: "You neeed sieges to kill a player....lol?" then u are really at the end and should visit a therapist. Because i dont think u have a girlfriend to talk to

MasterSpatula · March 2019

This thread, man. Yeesh. And people wonder why PVP isn't more popular.

ZOS_GregoryV · March 2019

Greetings all,

After removing and editing some posts, we have decided it best to keep this thread closed as it comes of as more of a bait thread. If you would like to have this same discussion, in a more civil and constructive thread, then by all means, please do so. But please remember to keep all posts/thread within the rule guidelines that we have in place here.

Thank you for your understanding,
-Greg-