Why are they nerfing dungeons?

Druid40 · March 2019

Dungeons will still require good gear, good skill rotations, knowledge, and awareness. Calm down. You will survive. I promise.

alanmatillab16_ESO · March 2019

Druid40 wrote: »

Dungeons will still require good gear, good skill rotations, knowledge, and awareness. Calm down. You will survive. I promise.

For now until the next load of whining gets them nerfed further. If there is no incentive or need to improve then why improve?

luizpaulom17 · March 2019

Emma_Overload wrote: »

Finally ZOS is doing something to make DLC relevant to the masses.

Keep the nerfs coming until all these DLC are puggable... then they will be worth buying!

I love it o much that people like U will never be able to complete Vet HM Trials and Dgs! And never get the nice skins that come with those! Because people like U dont want to learn how to play... Just want everythig easy on your hands!

Sry @Malprave, I mussunderstood U!

[Edit to remove bait]

DaveMoeDee · March 2019

Michaelkeir wrote: »

I'm no expert but I'm guessing they nerfed them due to a lot of people avoiding those dungeons due to not being able to complete them. Either fake tanks, low dps, or not learning the mechanics.

I main a tank (3 tanks actually) and healer, and I strictly run dlc vet content (mostly vMoS or vMhK) for motifs mostly and I can't tell you how many times I've qued into a dungeon (usually random group finder) and about 40% of the time most just drop out or log off. And the few that stay can't complete the dungeon due to 1-shots and low dps.

I think these nerfs are aimed at making pugs more friendly/easier. Most dont research before going in and dont care to. They just want to complete the dlc dungeons on vet for achievements and such. I'm not saying I like it, I don't care either way. But the fact is a large majority of the player base just outright skips these dlc dungeons and Zos wants more people to do the content. So this is the result.

What they need to do is allow people to queue with people that only want that dungeon. If they mix randoms and people seeking particular dungeons, we have the random dungeons we get being skewed by the people picking dungeons.

I have leveled a few alts to max level the last month by running daily randoms. Once they hit level 45, 100% of dungeons were DLC dungeons. That seems absurd. Granted, the dungeons were pretty easy for me as a tank on normal since I'm used to pugging them on vet, but it seems ridiculous that the rates were so skewed when DLC dungeons aren't even half of the dungeons and my characters had plenty of dungeons they had never set foot in.

MLGProPlayer · March 2019

Ohtimbar wrote: »

Very good. Maybe this will get more players involved. The small minority of players who run more difficult content have a blind spot for the average ESO player. I do not. I'm married to one, and have friends who also fall into the casual category. The average player does not want to be challenged beyond their limits, and they don't want to make this game a life goal. Accessibility matters, and this sort of thing is a step in the right direction. Hard mode isn't being nerfed, and there's no need to be snide about the skill level of players who just want to have fun. Sad, really, that any of that even needs to be said.

Accessibility was always there. It was called normal mode. Vet was supposed to be for those looking for a challenge.

MLGProPlayer · March 2019

Emma_Overload wrote: »

Finally ZOS is doing something to make DLC relevant to the masses.

Keep the nerfs coming until all these DLC are puggable... then they will be worth buying!

They are PUGable. There is also no reaaon why you need to do them on vet with a PUG. If your PUG isn't good enough, then switch to normal. That's what the difficulty settings are there for.

KhajiitFelix · March 2019

I thought WoW died because of casuls, why do you want to ESO die too?

Facefister · March 2019

Emma_Overload wrote: »

Finally ZOS is doing something to make DLC relevant to the masses.

Keep the nerfs coming until all these DLC are puggable... then they will be worth buying!

"How to kill your game in three, easy steps!"

p00tx · March 2019

Raammzzaa wrote: »

Rikumaru wrote: »

Because of some entitled people who believe they should be able to complete every single piece of content in the game without actually working to improve at the game. Welcome to gaming in 2019.

I know, right? ZOS always catering to FILTHY CSUALS! I can’t stand them coming in here acting like since they have a job, school, girlfriend, life... that things dungeons in video game should be accessible to them in 2019. The nerve!

Also, yes, since you asked... I am a 40 y/o man named Chuck that lives in my parents basement, and plays a female character... Git gud, scrub! 🤣

I think I've seen you post nearly that exact same sentence before. Original.

For the record, your cute little stereotype doesn't hold water. I'm a non-casual female gamer with a career, school, a boyfriend, gym, friends, and a life. I just choose to carefully focus my time in the game instead of wasting time talking trash in zone chat or dueling new players in Vulkhel Guard, or whatever the kids are doing these days. I got the cool stuff in the game because I was willing to work my butt off for it, and I happen to enjoy that type of challenge. To each his/her own though.

cheifsoap · March 2019

This isn't rocket science. All you need to do is look at the completion rate of each of these achievements and dungeons. They're clearly too difficult for the average customer and this is what its all about, their customers. No offense to those who grind out the hard content but you don't make up the majority of their customer base, the average Joe and Jane do and if they're not completing the content than something is horribly wrong with the content. I'm personally okay with them nerfing everything, it shows that they're learning from their competition (WoW) and with the recent influx of WoW players, its working. Kudos to them

Ohtimbar · March 2019

luizpaulom17 wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

Finally ZOS is doing something to make DLC relevant to the masses.

Keep the nerfs coming until all these DLC are puggable... then they will be worth buying!

I love it o much that people like U will never be able to complete Vet HM Trials and Dgs! And never get the nice skins that come with those! Because people like U dont want to learn how to play... Just want everythig easy on your hands! Mot of U end up leaving the game in less than a year and are not missed at all...

Sry @Malprave, I mussunderstood U!

With an attitude like that, I doubt many would miss you if you left. This is just a video game.

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Ohtimbar wrote: »

Very good. Maybe this will get more players involved. The small minority of players who run more difficult content have a blind spot for the average ESO player. I do not. I'm married to one, and have friends who also fall into the casual category. The average player does not want to be challenged beyond their limits, and they don't want to make this game a life goal. Accessibility matters, and this sort of thing is a step in the right direction. Hard mode isn't being nerfed, and there's no need to be snide about the skill level of players who just want to have fun. Sad, really, that any of that even needs to be said.

Accessibility was always there. It was called normal mode. Vet was supposed to be for those looking for a challenge.

Accessible for you and I, but not for many others.

Facefister · March 2019

Soul19reaper wrote: »

Well this is a good step afterall it's not a souls game and those vet content were being completed only by a minority of playerbase like 2 or 3% which isn't good for playerbase nor the company , most of dlc dungeons were useless cause only high level elitist are able to complete but now it might be for the rest of audience as well!

Souls games aren't hard, they relentlessly punish no-brain actions, that's a difference.

Ohtimbar wrote: »

Accessible for you and I, but not for many others.

So let's nerf everything until everyone is able to finish it!

DaveMoeDee · March 2019

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

Finally ZOS is doing something to make DLC relevant to the masses.

Keep the nerfs coming until all these DLC are puggable... then they will be worth buying!

They are PUGable. There is also no reaaon why you need to do them on vet with a PUG. If your PUG isn't good enough, then switch to normal. That's what the difficulty settings are there for.

How do you get a PUG to switch to normal because it isn't good enough? That isn't how the group finder works.

I also believe the vet DLC dungeons are puggable. That is how I clear them. I have only used a pre-formed group to do a vet DLC dungeon once and that was definitely a lot easier. But there are definitely times where I find the two DPS just don't put out enough to get past certain content and I have gotten stuck before at Planar Inhibitor. One time we even went through a few replacements until we quit on PI. That group even took a long time on some non-boss mobs. Then I queued for a random again and ended up in the same dungeon. This time, the other three just melted everything and tanking was super easy.

VDoom1 · March 2019

Several dungeons got nerfed? Well damn. I'm glad I can say I got the full experience. Yesterday I finished my own achievement of "do all dungeons (including DLC)". So glad I go them all done before this nerf. I imagine the effected dungeons are a lot different now, or feel different. Perhaps to easy now...?

I hate White Gold Tower, and love it. It has that (if you´re there for the first time or don't know the mechanics) right amount of challenging. Not to much, not to little. Bosses can be defeated, you just gotta plan and everyone in the group has to do their part. On that note it's a great dungeon. Or shall I say...was..a great dungeon.

A lot of dungeons had (might still after nerf, I don't know) that right amount of challenging. Yeah you wipe once maybe or you're close to wiping but then it feels like you gotta work for it. You gotta move, be smart and strategic not just spam one button. You earn the victory at the end.

On the bright side, as stated before by others. Now more people can finish more content.
I will agree that there seems to be (or was) quite a large difficulty gap between normal and veteran. Perhaps that's better now.

Jzap279 · March 2019

mcagatayg wrote: »

Especially old ones like Cradle of Shadows and Bloodroot etc... They are already easy to complete compared to new ones, and they were easy to do with 3 DDs. Now there is no need for a healer.

Dungeons already felt too easy...

Ohtimbar · March 2019

Facefister wrote: »

Soul19reaper wrote: »

Well this is a good step afterall it's not a souls game and those vet content were being completed only by a minority of playerbase like 2 or 3% which isn't good for playerbase nor the company , most of dlc dungeons were useless cause only high level elitist are able to complete but now it might be for the rest of audience as well!

Souls games aren't hard, they relentlessly punish no-brain actions, that's a difference.

Ohtimbar wrote: »

Accessible for you and I, but not for many others.

So let's nerf everything until everyone is able to finish it!

The majority doesn't matter, cater to me and me alone! See? I can twist people's words into nonsense too. I support the play as you like motto. The game should cater to the player. If they want casual, give them casual. If they want difficult, give them difficult.

Karadim · March 2019

Thank you! Pugging them will not be that painfull anymore!

Emma_Overload · March 2019

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

Finally ZOS is doing something to make DLC relevant to the masses.

Keep the nerfs coming until all these DLC are puggable... then they will be worth buying!

They are PUGable. There is also no reaaon why you need to do them on vet with a PUG. If your PUG isn't good enough, then switch to normal. That's what the difficulty settings are there for.

You forget about monster helms. This is a HUGE part of the problem.

DivineFirstYOLO · March 2019

Finally I can fake tank the vet DLC dungeons on my DD, thank you!
Tank lfg 6 keys

Facefister · March 2019

Ohtimbar wrote: »

Facefister wrote: »

Soul19reaper wrote: »

Well this is a good step afterall it's not a souls game and those vet content were being completed only by a minority of playerbase like 2 or 3% which isn't good for playerbase nor the company , most of dlc dungeons were useless cause only high level elitist are able to complete but now it might be for the rest of audience as well!

Souls games aren't hard, they relentlessly punish no-brain actions, that's a difference.

Ohtimbar wrote: »

Accessible for you and I, but not for many others.

So let's nerf everything until everyone is able to finish it!

The majority doesn't matter, cater to me and me alone! See? I can twist people's words into nonsense too. I support the play as you like motto. The game should cater to the player. If they want casual, give them casual. If they want difficult, give them difficult.

WoW catered to the "casual" player, they went from 12 million subs down to 800k.

marius_buys · March 2019

Dungeon nerfs done intelligently IS a good thing and it's great that ZOS looked at it in an empirical way and didn't just blanket nerf everything. HM should be difficult but why deny a large playerbase access to the vet completion achievement and Monster Sets with dungeons on vet and even normal mode? Drop off rate nerfs are the way to go.

Urvoth · March 2019

KhajiitFelix wrote: »

I thought WoW died because of casuls, why do you want to ESO die too?

I hope the content stays hard/challenging and keeps going in that direction. There’s no satisfaction or achievement in going through everything on easy mode. If people can’t complete something, they can learn to play better or use other gear - ESO is very flexible with gear choices.

I don’t think it’s at all accurate to blame PvPers for PvE content getting nerfed, though. More like the super casual PvErs that want to do progressive content but can’t be bothered to get good - the same sort of players that hop into PvP and complain about simple l2p issues.

Jhalin · March 2019

I don’t think any of the changes were necessary but I won’t turn down the chance for an easier go at the achievements.

spartaxoxo · March 2019

Rikumaru wrote: »

Because of some entitled people who believe they should be able to complete every single piece of content in the game without actually working to improve at the game. Welcome to gaming in 2019.

You could work and improve all you wanted, it meant nothing if you didn't know the right people and had the exact right schedule.

Krayl · March 2019

ZoS is gonna find out the hard way that their money-makers aren't in the elite end-gamers selling skin runs, nor are they in casuals who fret over a subscription fee weighing every benefit.

Their cash cow is in the mid range gamer who actually likes a challenge and doesn't want a hand-holding.... recognizes the value of their subscription fee for a game that poses some challenges to work on.

What we need are more difficult dungeons and trials and less easy filler.

spartaxoxo · March 2019

Wolfahm wrote: »

vet and HM should be a goal for newer players not a "right" .. you can already 3 ( sometimes 4 DPS ) every 4 man in the game. It is even most times "safer" to do so since you skip most mechs.

If you need to skip mechanics to clear a dungeon that's a sign those mechanics aren't reasonable to follow.

Mechanics should be the safe way to do things and skipping should be risky.

Every skin I have was earned by getting together a couple of dps friends that were just as high as me, and then a tank, and I did that because I was unlikely to get it done if we actually played mechanics. It was better to skip them.

If this makes following mechanics the easy way to do it, and makes it less necessary to leave out healers because you don't need a ton of dps to skip mechanics to complete these things, then that's good imo.

Gnortranermara · March 2019

ZOS_Finn wrote: »

As a aside, Hard Modes, in our view, are the space where we can challenge players that seek to push themselves to the limit in four-player content. With this in mind, we have no plans to make any changes to reduce that difficulty.

The difficulty is fine, but do you have any plans to fix the bugginess of encounters like vSCP HM? This fight is still notoriously glitchy despite past claims that devs fixed it in previous patches. It is not fixed.

The boss randomly resets (at 1:37 in video), the poison cones still hit people after clearly exiting them, and the various freezing mechanics are both unreliable when you need them and regularly hit people who aren't touching them. This fight is extremely mechanic heavy and the mechanics still don't work properly.

max_only · March 2019

Keep going Zos. Make a no reward story mode for every dungeon as well so I can finally experience what I paid for. I didn’t pay to be abused in queue, I paid for the interactive movie that is a video game. No point in buying dungeons if I have to rely on the good will of the gen pop to see them. Judging by these thread responses it’s pretty rare.

Reistr_the_Unbroken · March 2019

Honestly I really don’t care considering someone on here says I’d be deadweight for trying dungeons for the first time ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
So yep, never touching them

Edit: oh wait, they said I’d be a burden

alexj4596b14_ESO · March 2019

Personally the only one I'm happy about is ruins of rutmiz or something like that. That one was just stupid hard and I've gotten through darkness one on vet.