Automatic renewal cancellation - Legal terms
djodars
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Just read this bit in the legal terms:
I'm not looking to cancel my subscription but this can be interesting for others.
Can we have an official response on this? Does this mean the month following the free 30 days will be charged for everyone that hasn't cancelled the exact date the game came out?
If You have subscribed for an automatic subscription renewal, You agree that Bethesda may continue charging You on an automatic recurring basis for Your current subscription preferences unless You cancel Your subscription at least thirty (30) days prior to the expiration of the subscription.
I'm not looking to cancel my subscription but this can be interesting for others.
Can we have an official response on this? Does this mean the month following the free 30 days will be charged for everyone that hasn't cancelled the exact date the game came out?
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xondk✭✭I would like to point out that it also clearly states in the TOS and on the receipt that you get, that they will not withdraw any money until the date of renewal.....soooo, and that they nowhere state that they will reserve the money 30 days in advance...Edited by xondk on April 9, 2014 1:28PM1 -
raglau✭✭✭✭✭Certainly in the EU they would never get away with this, the terms would be considered unfair, ripped up and used as virtual toilet paper by any judge. Reason being the customer has to be able to cancel a service right up until the service is started, and because the terms would drive you to subscribe in order to get your promised free month; the latter would be considered an unfair contract.
So they could, in the EU, only enact such terms for the bit once the *paid for* service has started and you had consumed the free bit.
That said, it's not stopped many US companies making a complete pig's ear of interpreting EU legislation, including Steam for many years.Just read this bit in the legal terms:If You have subscribed for an automatic subscription renewal, You agree that Bethesda may continue charging You on an automatic recurring basis for Your current subscription preferences unless You cancel Your subscription at least thirty (30) days prior to the expiration of the subscription.
I'm not looking to cancel my subscription but this can be interesting for others.
Can we have an official response on this? Does this mean the month following the free 30 days will be charged for everyone that hasn't cancelled the exact date the game came out?
Edited by raglau on April 9, 2014 1:37PM3 -
It only resubscribes if you picked that option, so nothing special here really.0
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djodars✭✭✭Hellbreedjr06eb17_ESO wrote: »It only resubscribes if you picked that option, so nothing special here really.
It clearly says that you must cancel at least 30 days prior to the end of your current subscription or they may charge you regardless if you cancelled.
Everyone who subscribed with a credit card or paypal and hasn't cancelled immediately is in that 30 days period... which is already too late.
I agree that it would be insane if they did this but it still is in the legal terms and an official answer and clarification on this topic would be helpful.0 -
felixgamingx1✭✭✭✭It means if you cancel in May 4th and you billing cicle starts at May 2nd you'll be charged May and June2 -
djodars✭✭✭felixgamingx1 wrote: »It means if you cancel in May 4th and you billing cicle starts at May 2nd you'll be charged May and June
Yeah thanks for putting that in perspective, many probably didn't interpreted it correctly.
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otomodachi✭✭✭Hellbreedjr06eb17_ESO wrote: »It only resubscribes if you picked that option, so nothing special here really.
It clearly says that you must cancel at least 30 days prior to the end of your current subscription or they may charge you regardless if you cancelled.
Everyone who subscribed with a credit card or paypal and hasn't cancelled immediately is in that 30 days period... which is already too late.
I agree that it would be insane if they did this but it still is in the legal terms and an official answer and clarification on this topic would be helpful.
Yeah, because the 30 day trial isn't a subscription, the more I read it, the more I think it won't matter until you actually start a pay cycle.What do you gain by criticizing a CSR complaint?2 -
djodars✭✭✭otomodachi wrote: »Yeah, because the 30 day trial isn't a subscription, the more I read it, the more I think it won't matter until you actually start a pay cycle.
The free 30 day isn't a subscription... but the subscription you had to pick in order to have access to that 30 day is; and it is automatic renewal as well.
There's a lot of ways to interpret this thing and that's why I want people to see this and ask questions. It shouldn't be this complicated but whoever wrote the legal terms made it complicated :P3 -
otomodachi✭✭✭otomodachi wrote: »Yeah, because the 30 day trial isn't a subscription, the more I read it, the more I think it won't matter until you actually start a pay cycle.
The free 30 day isn't a subscription... but the subscription you had to pick in order to have access to that 30 day is; and it is automatic renewal as well.
There's a lot of ways to interpret this thing and that's why I want people to see this and ask questions. It shouldn't be this complicated but whoever wrote the legal terms made it complicated :P
I agree, I referred to this thread in the known-issues thread. I THINK we're being paranoid, because "30 days prior to the end of current subscription" means 30 days prior to the end of the month AFTER your trial, to my brain.
Also, "30 days prior" in business speak usually includes that 30th day, so cancelling the day you sub should still fit the bill.What do you gain by criticizing a CSR complaint?0 -
djodars✭✭✭Bumping for visibility;
Any clarification on this would be nice before the free 30 days comes to an end.2 -
Thread bumping
I haven't redeemed my key yet, because of the dubious interpretation of this particular term.0 -
Milanna✭✭✭This did cause me to cancel my subscription.EU-server
Mila the True (Aldmeri Dominion)
Milanna the Cold-hearted (Aldmeri Dominion)
Raphael the Cunning (Ebonheart Pact)
NA-server
Cassius Tanicius (Daggerfall Covenant)
I just found garlic, you blood-suckers better stay clear0 -
prabab✭Honestly this stupid term made me cancel my subscription immediately. If I'm going to play it further, I'm going to use retail game time codes.
Basically punishing your customer for subscribing to your game is the stupidest thing you can do.Edited by prabab on April 10, 2014 2:11PM3 -
Milanna✭✭✭I have an ongoing subscription with LOTRO, and have had for four years now. Never do they demand of me that I cancel a month in advance. I´d say this will send customers running, and not in the good direction.EU-server
Mila the True (Aldmeri Dominion)
Milanna the Cold-hearted (Aldmeri Dominion)
Raphael the Cunning (Ebonheart Pact)
NA-server
Cassius Tanicius (Daggerfall Covenant)
I just found garlic, you blood-suckers better stay clear2 -
djodars✭✭✭There's no reason to panic until we have an official answer to this. Don't know if we'll have one soon though, they seem rather busy with a lot of other problems. Maybe our favorite @ZOS_JessicaFolsom can look into this when she's got a minute
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Vyndetta✭✭✭Hellbreedjr06eb17_ESO wrote: »It only resubscribes if you picked that option, so nothing special here really.
When you set up your subscription, did you not read that all subscriptions are auto-renewal? You must cancel the subscription yourself to avoid auto-renewal, or, use a game time card (are they even available anywhere yet?).0 -
krilleyy95✭✭Thanks for this, I just cancelled my subscription.. Sadly I get to pay for next month I guess... It should be illegal to even have terms like that, but of course they do it, because they know no one really reads the terms & agreement.. Such scumbags0
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I would like to point out that it also clearly states in the TOS and on the receipt that you get, that they will not withdraw any money until the date of renewal.....soooo, and that they nowhere state that they will reserve the money 30 days in advance...
You may try reading before you post, the above excerpt says nothing about reserving money, what it is says is this " If you cancel your subscription five days before your plan is to renew, were still going to charge you on the day that the plan would have renewed before it was canceled "
" unless You cancel Your subscription at least thirty (30) days prior to the expiration of the subscription. "
that's insane, and pretty messed up if it's true, I believe they did how ever have a one time plan, meaning not recurring. Not that, that changes how messed up it is lolBrave New World.0 -
otomodachi✭✭✭Clotholachesisatropos666b14_ESO wrote: »I would like to point out that it also clearly states in the TOS and on the receipt that you get, that they will not withdraw any money until the date of renewal.....soooo, and that they nowhere state that they will reserve the money 30 days in advance...
You may try reading before you post, the above excerpt says nothing about reserving money, what it is says is this " If you cancel your subscription five days before your plan is to renew, were still going to charge you on the day that the plan would have renewed before it was canceled "
" unless You cancel Your subscription at least thirty (30) days prior to the expiration of the subscription. "
that's insane, and pretty messed up if it's true, I believe they did how ever have a one time plan, meaning not recurring. Not that, that changes how messed up it is lol
I think the guy you were quoting meant to imply that since some people have found fault with certain ZO policies, it might be best to err on the side of caution here. I THINK. May be wrong.
Again, just want to point out- the thirty day trial is not a subscription. You would have until day 29 of your 30 day trial to cancel the first month. Also, in business speak, 30 days prior INCLUDES that 30th day, so sub/immediate cancel is valid.What do you gain by criticizing a CSR complaint?1 -
jamesharv2005ub17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭I think you guys are just getting caught up in legalize. They arent going to bill you 2 months in advance if you cancel. You only pay for what you use.1 -
krilleyy95 wrote: »Thanks for this, I just cancelled my subscription.. Sadly I get to pay for next month I guess... It should be illegal to even have terms like that, but of course they do it, because they know no one really reads the terms & agreement.. Such scumbags
yup it's wrong in every way, but maybe now you'll take the few minutes it takes to read it lolBrave New World.0 -
krilleyy95✭✭Clotholachesisatropos666b14_ESO wrote: »krilleyy95 wrote: »Thanks for this, I just cancelled my subscription.. Sadly I get to pay for next month I guess... It should be illegal to even have terms like that, but of course they do it, because they know no one really reads the terms & agreement.. Such scumbags
yup it's wrong in every way, but maybe now you'll take the few minutes it takes to read it lol
Honestly, I just really hope some rich ESO player with a grudge sues them so hard as revenge.
EDIT **
Just scrolled through the Terms really fast, and I wondered about this -
"ZeniMax has no obligation to make available any patches, updates or modifications or correct any errors or defects in the Services." So, Zenimax is under no obligations to fix their game at all, in any ways? - Seems pretty fishy for a P2P game
Edited by krilleyy95 on April 11, 2014 10:34PM1 -
liquid_wolf✭✭✭✭If You have subscribed for an automatic subscription renewal, You agree that Bethesda may continue charging You on an automatic recurring basis for Your current subscription preferences unless You cancel Your subscription at least thirty (30) days prior to the expiration of the subscription.
The wording is weird.
I understand the intent, and how it works... but when you read it, you feel like it says something else.
Quite literally it says that you need to cancel June 1st (May 31? 30 days?) for a subscription that expires July 1... and almost seems to say that canceling June 15/29 still means you get charged on July 1.
But... at the same time... they bill you based on your current subscription preferences, which at the time of charge would be "Cancelled" or "no Subscription" because you changed it.
So the ToS SAY they will charge you, but the preferences won't allow it...Edited by liquid_wolf on April 11, 2014 10:41PM0 -
Goibot✭✭✭If they tried this people could just refuse the charges and I'm pretty sure this would bring down more than Germany on them.
Again though the silence is deafening.1 -
krilleyy95✭✭Amazing how ESO forum staff pretty much always responds to people ranting about them, but there seems to be no wanted reaction to this one 1
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krilleyy95 wrote: »Clotholachesisatropos666b14_ESO wrote: »krilleyy95 wrote: »Thanks for this, I just cancelled my subscription.. Sadly I get to pay for next month I guess... It should be illegal to even have terms like that, but of course they do it, because they know no one really reads the terms & agreement.. Such scumbags
yup it's wrong in every way, but maybe now you'll take the few minutes it takes to read it lol
Honestly, I just really hope some rich ESO player with a grudge sues them so hard as revenge.
EDIT **
Just scrolled through the Terms really fast, and I wondered about this -
"ZeniMax has no obligation to make available any patches, updates or modifications or correct any errors or defects in the Services." So, Zenimax is under no obligations to fix their game at all, in any ways? - Seems pretty fishy for a P2P game
You'd think so but thats standard in pay to play mmos. Its also standard to mention that your account its characters and every thing connected to it is there property and they can delete and or ban your account for no reason and not have to give you a reason lol the Elua and the tos are always really screwed up and you really have to pay attention to itBrave New World.0 -
krilleyy95✭✭Clotholachesisatropos666b14_ESO wrote: »krilleyy95 wrote: »Clotholachesisatropos666b14_ESO wrote: »krilleyy95 wrote: »Thanks for this, I just cancelled my subscription.. Sadly I get to pay for next month I guess... It should be illegal to even have terms like that, but of course they do it, because they know no one really reads the terms & agreement.. Such scumbags
yup it's wrong in every way, but maybe now you'll take the few minutes it takes to read it lol
Honestly, I just really hope some rich ESO player with a grudge sues them so hard as revenge.
EDIT **
Just scrolled through the Terms really fast, and I wondered about this -
"ZeniMax has no obligation to make available any patches, updates or modifications or correct any errors or defects in the Services." So, Zenimax is under no obligations to fix their game at all, in any ways? - Seems pretty fishy for a P2P game
You'd think so but thats standard in pay to play mmos. Its also standard to mention that your account its characters and every thing connected to it is there property and they can delete and or ban your account for no reason and not have to give you a reason lol the Elua and the tos are always really screwed up and you really have to pay attention to it
World of Warcraft doesn't have any "we are under no obligation to fix our game" agreements as far as I can see, nor with the "cashstealing" agreement.
Honestly, I don't really know any P2P games other than WoW and ESO at the moment, every other game has gone F2P.
Edited by krilleyy95 on April 11, 2014 10:54PM0 -
jamesharv2005ub17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭krilleyy95 wrote: »Clotholachesisatropos666b14_ESO wrote: »krilleyy95 wrote: »Clotholachesisatropos666b14_ESO wrote: »krilleyy95 wrote: »Thanks for this, I just cancelled my subscription.. Sadly I get to pay for next month I guess... It should be illegal to even have terms like that, but of course they do it, because they know no one really reads the terms & agreement.. Such scumbags
yup it's wrong in every way, but maybe now you'll take the few minutes it takes to read it lol
Honestly, I just really hope some rich ESO player with a grudge sues them so hard as revenge.
EDIT **
Just scrolled through the Terms really fast, and I wondered about this -
"ZeniMax has no obligation to make available any patches, updates or modifications or correct any errors or defects in the Services." So, Zenimax is under no obligations to fix their game at all, in any ways? - Seems pretty fishy for a P2P game
You'd think so but thats standard in pay to play mmos. Its also standard to mention that your account its characters and every thing connected to it is there property and they can delete and or ban your account for no reason and not have to give you a reason lol the Elua and the tos are always really screwed up and you really have to pay attention to it
World of Warcraft doesn't have any "we are under no obligation to fix our game" agreements as far as I can see, nor with the "cashstealing" agreement.
Well I mean you have the choice to go play WoW instead. Somehow tho I doubt they wont ever fix any bugs. In fact they have already fixed quite a few.1