Do you wish the siege equipments can stay strong?

GC0 · February 2019

Nah remove it they are just for knock doors/walls

Judas Helviaryn wrote: »

GC0 wrote: »

The amount of damage you take from siege is ridiculous. Getting hit by one literally means death and zerglings spam siege on you, especially coldfires which are 15k a tick which is just a joke. Anyone that says that it should be kept is just not thinking straight. It doesn't make the pvp fun, it makes it cancerous because you have to actively dodge a siege which is meters away sometimes where you can't reach immediately. One guy without any issues can destroy your fights. It's very fun to be sieged 1v4-5 btw you should try getting sieged then :^). It's genuinely worse than snipe(as in it being literally cancer) when getting outnumbered and snipe needs to be removed in the state that it is right now. This siege thing is just incredibly bad for the pvp of the game as well. You are actively trying to to left click everyone down from a safe distance instead of using actual skills. Like come on you're not even pvping you're just clicking left click.

One guy with speciAlized equipment being able to give you and yours a hard time with the press of a button, supporting his front line allies?

Having to dodge hazards in the field to complete your objective?

Fair fights? Sounds to me like you want battlegrounds and brawling, not an objective-based war campaign.

There has to be some kind of dynamic that differentiates the three.

This is ridiculous lol. One guy supporting the rest of a pugs is just stupid. Yeah sure sieges should be able to do damage but last patch they were already cancerous enough.

I didn't mention a single thing about being fair, I just don't want it to be harder than it already is for people like me, who small-scale to deal with zergs.

You being able to land a single left click attack should not mean the death of the small-scaller, period.

I am sure you want to keep this bug just because you can't play properly yourself and get yeeted on daily when trying to zerg people down

IndorilArwynLlethran · February 2019

Keep siege-OP a thing

Just fix it a bit. Currently the damage just ignores all defence/resistance/mitigation, even racial passives, which is just ridiculous. Bring back defensive options but increase initial hit physical damage and elemental dots for ballistae and trebs. Meatbags and scattershots were terrifying to some sorts of players before the update, the bug did not change much on this matter, mindless hordes should die in bright red five layers aoe circle under gatehouse. With rapids nerf, even reverted to their previous state these weapons will perform perfectly. Oils look too much seductive, I'd keep them but it's wrong. That should be like - remove the effect or die in three ticks. If people manage to die to 2 snipes, why they should survive oils? Btw, people successfully died to oils long before the update. Now just some cross-buffed tanky smallscalers are pissed off too. As for megazergs with earthgore on every third, who used to loose 50% of men under siege fire and still outnumber the enemy - those guys completely deserve being burned to ashes.

Uryel · February 2019

Keep siege-OP a thing

Rikumaru wrote: »

Being able to procure a siege from thin air and placing it down in 3 seconds and then proceeding to deal 80% of the enemies HP in 1 hit (with the dot ending you) is stupid.

Because being able to spit fire onto everyone in front of you, calling down a meteor, or healing by waving your hands in the air isn't ?

This game has magic. Deal with it.

Also, has anyone here taken a direct hit from a catapult or a ballista IRL ? No, of course, you wouldn't be there to talk about it. A ballista could nail a freaking horse to a stone wall...

Garamant · February 2019

I am all for deadly Siege, but there must be some sort of limitations, and this has to be thought through carefully, because it will have its influence on the flavour of fights in cyrodiil. I am thinking of limited ammunition/max amount of sieges you can carry/more than one player to operate a siege.

Judas Helviaryn · February 2019

Keep siege-OP a thing

GC0 wrote: »

Judas Helviaryn wrote: »

GC0 wrote: »

The amount of damage you take from siege is ridiculous. Getting hit by one literally means death and zerglings spam siege on you, especially coldfires which are 15k a tick which is just a joke. Anyone that says that it should be kept is just not thinking straight. It doesn't make the pvp fun, it makes it cancerous because you have to actively dodge a siege which is meters away sometimes where you can't reach immediately. One guy without any issues can destroy your fights. It's very fun to be sieged 1v4-5 btw you should try getting sieged then :^). It's genuinely worse than snipe(as in it being literally cancer) when getting outnumbered and snipe needs to be removed in the state that it is right now. This siege thing is just incredibly bad for the pvp of the game as well. You are actively trying to to left click everyone down from a safe distance instead of using actual skills. Like come on you're not even pvping you're just clicking left click.

One guy with speciAlized equipment being able to give you and yours a hard time with the press of a button, supporting his front line allies?

Having to dodge hazards in the field to complete your objective?

Fair fights? Sounds to me like you want battlegrounds and brawling, not an objective-based war campaign.

There has to be some kind of dynamic that differentiates the three.

This is ridiculous lol. One guy supporting the rest of a pugs is just stupid. Yeah sure sieges should be able to do damage but last patch they were already cancerous enough.

I didn't mention a single thing about being fair, I just don't want it to be harder than it already is for people like me, who small-scale to deal with zergs.

You being able to land a single left click attack should not mean the death of the small-scaller, period.

I am sure you want to keep this bug just because you can't play properly yourself and get yeeted on daily when trying to zerg people down

Oh look, personal attacks. I guess that's that for your argument, huh?

For the record, I don't do siege. Sitting back and pressing one button isn't something I relish.

That doesn't mean it doesn't add a necessary dynamic to the gameplay that is otherwise horridly stale and very much to-and-fro.

Say no to neutered gameplay.

Oh! And let's get rid of PVP tanks and healbots then, if you think one person supporting the larger group is a bad idea.

Hell, let's just dumb down the game to rock paper scissors. Or how about paddy cake?

Feanor · February 2019

Judas Helviaryn wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

Don't stand in red.

Simple minds always favor simple solutions. If it kills you, just stay on your keep wall!

Seriously, in noCP there isn’t any oil showering or dancing in ballista bolt rain unless you got 4 or 5 dedicated Healers who are constantly purging. It’s almost as Siege has counterplay then...

Which brings us to...

I firmly believe non-CP is non-standard, and the game shouldn't be balanced around it as it stands right now.

@Judas Helviaryn

What you firmly believe or don’t believe is irrelevant when it comes to the fact that noCP is a game mode that exists and that many people enjoy. EU Sotha Sil is regularly pop locked for all alliances in prime time. So your simple “screw no CP” won’t do. ZOS has to come up with a solution. Period.

And your assertion that I must not play non-CP campaigns, as if that's the only qualifier to having a valid opinion about the state of PVP in this game, wasn't exactly relevant either.

You have fun in your handicapped game mode, but that's ever all it really is. One game mode, and not even the default.

Remember that the game is balanced around CP characters, it doesn't just stop at 160 uninvested levels.

The difference is that I’m not destroying anyone’s fun with the game when I expect sensible changes to the situation right now. You of course don’t have to play noCP, because hey, if you need or like the extra boost, why not. But your stance is that all the people who enjoy the “handicapped” game mode (which actually is PvP without training wheels if you don’t play proc based builds) can get screwed so that you can have a playing style you like (yay, left clicking strategically) - that’s not only egocentric but also unrealistic.

GC0 · February 2019

Nah remove it they are just for knock doors/walls

Uryel wrote: »

Rikumaru wrote: »

Being able to procure a siege from thin air and placing it down in 3 seconds and then proceeding to deal 80% of the enemies HP in 1 hit (with the dot ending you) is stupid.

Because being able to spit fire onto everyone in front of you, calling down a meteor, or healing by waving your hands in the air isn't ?

This game has magic. Deal with it.

Also, has anyone here taken a direct hit from a catapult or a ballista IRL ? No, of course, you wouldn't be there to talk about it. A ballista could nail a freaking horse to a stone wall...

Yeah but did you see the massive red circle around where ballista hit which is not realistic if you're aiming for that? If you think that the siege should do that much damage and you are comparing it to irl medieval siege equipment in that case the ballista should have the aoe of literally nothing and in the end and would do no damage because you can't hit a single nimble player. By nimble I mean literally any class and moving like 1 meter to the side :^)

Judas Helviaryn · February 2019

Keep siege-OP a thing

Feanor wrote: »

Judas Helviaryn wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

Don't stand in red.

Simple minds always favor simple solutions. If it kills you, just stay on your keep wall!

Seriously, in noCP there isn’t any oil showering or dancing in ballista bolt rain unless you got 4 or 5 dedicated Healers who are constantly purging. It’s almost as Siege has counterplay then...

Which brings us to...

I firmly believe non-CP is non-standard, and the game shouldn't be balanced around it as it stands right now.

@Judas Helviaryn

What you firmly believe or don’t believe is irrelevant when it comes to the fact that noCP is a game mode that exists and that many people enjoy. EU Sotha Sil is regularly pop locked for all alliances in prime time. So your simple “screw no CP” won’t do. ZOS has to come up with a solution. Period.

And your assertion that I must not play non-CP campaigns, as if that's the only qualifier to having a valid opinion about the state of PVP in this game, wasn't exactly relevant either.

You have fun in your handicapped game mode, but that's ever all it really is. One game mode, and not even the default.

Remember that the game is balanced around CP characters, it doesn't just stop at 160 uninvested levels.

The difference is that I’m not destroying anyone’s fun with the game when I expect sensible changes to situation right now. You of course don’t have to play noCP, because hey, if you need or like the extra boost, why not. But your stance is that all the people who enjoy the “handicapped” game mode (which actually is PvP without training wheels if you don’t play proc based builds) can get screwed so that you can have playing style you like (yay, left clicking strategically) is not only egocentric but also unrealistic.

Look in the mirror, and turn that argument right around on you. That's just like... Your opinion, man.

Little hint, these are all opinions. The moment you stop attacking the idea in favor of attacking the person, you've given up on winning.

GC0 · February 2019

Nah remove it they are just for knock doors/walls

Judas Helviaryn wrote: »

GC0 wrote: »

Judas Helviaryn wrote: »

GC0 wrote: »

The amount of damage you take from siege is ridiculous. Getting hit by one literally means death and zerglings spam siege on you, especially coldfires which are 15k a tick which is just a joke. Anyone that says that it should be kept is just not thinking straight. It doesn't make the pvp fun, it makes it cancerous because you have to actively dodge a siege which is meters away sometimes where you can't reach immediately. One guy without any issues can destroy your fights. It's very fun to be sieged 1v4-5 btw you should try getting sieged then :^). It's genuinely worse than snipe(as in it being literally cancer) when getting outnumbered and snipe needs to be removed in the state that it is right now. This siege thing is just incredibly bad for the pvp of the game as well. You are actively trying to to left click everyone down from a safe distance instead of using actual skills. Like come on you're not even pvping you're just clicking left click.

One guy with speciAlized equipment being able to give you and yours a hard time with the press of a button, supporting his front line allies?

Having to dodge hazards in the field to complete your objective?

Fair fights? Sounds to me like you want battlegrounds and brawling, not an objective-based war campaign.

There has to be some kind of dynamic that differentiates the three.

This is ridiculous lol. One guy supporting the rest of a pugs is just stupid. Yeah sure sieges should be able to do damage but last patch they were already cancerous enough.

I didn't mention a single thing about being fair, I just don't want it to be harder than it already is for people like me, who small-scale to deal with zergs.

You being able to land a single left click attack should not mean the death of the small-scaller, period.

I am sure you want to keep this bug just because you can't play properly yourself and get yeeted on daily when trying to zerg people down

Oh look, personal attacks. I guess that's that for your argument, huh?

For the record, I don't do siege. Sitting back and pressing one button isn't something I relish.

That doesn't mean it doesn't add a necessary dynamic to the gameplay that is otherwise horridly stale and very much to-and-fro.

Say no to neutered gameplay.

Oh! And let's get rid of PVP tanks and healbots then, if you think one person supporting the larger group is a bad idea.

Hell, let's just dumb down the game to rock paper scissors. Or how about paddy cake?

Remove healbots and tanks let's go lmao. I am all up for it. Remove the pest like 50k health tanks that do exactly nothing and healbots that ruin my smallscale by not letting me kill anyone before I kill them. I am all up for it. Though I don't think it's a bad idea but I wouldn't call siege support exactly because you don't need support when you're trying to zerg people down. It adds no dynamic mechanic that's fun even remotely as well so I don't get what you're trying to say. Neutered gameplay? You already were being sieged when people couldn't kill you. Now it's just straight up cancer because one coldfire means the death of you.

MikaHR · February 2019

Nah remove it they are just for knock doors/walls

You know that something is wrong when first thing(s) you do when you see enemy player in an open field is - put down a siege.

"OP siege" will jut encourage even MORE zerging. Good luck capturing anything with a small team.

MattT1988 · February 2019

Valldez wrote: »

if your siege can hit both enemies and your allies, and your allies oil can melt you too while you fighting enemies on choke points.. then yes, keep it OP.. just like real war centuries ago..

Part of me wants to see this happen just for the LOL’s.

Rikumaru · February 2019

Nah remove it they are just for knock doors/walls

Uryel wrote: »

Rikumaru wrote: »

Being able to procure a siege from thin air and placing it down in 3 seconds and then proceeding to deal 80% of the enemies HP in 1 hit (with the dot ending you) is stupid.

Because being able to spit fire onto everyone in front of you, calling down a meteor, or healing by waving your hands in the air isn't ?

This game has magic. Deal with it.

Also, has anyone here taken a direct hit from a catapult or a ballista IRL ? No, of course, you wouldn't be there to talk about it. A ballista could nail a freaking horse to a stone wall...

Sure thing, but when I call down my meteor I want it to act how it would do IRL. Because if you got hit by a meteor the size of the one you have in the game, you wouldn't be there to talk about it

GC0 · February 2019

Nah remove it they are just for knock doors/walls

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/444948818459361299/550250654258429969/thisshouldnotbeathing1.png

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/444948818459361299/550250655189827584/shouldnotbeathing2.png

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/444948818459361299/550250657492238346/shouldnotbeathing3.png

This should be in the game, seriously? This is just ridiculous. 1 colfire tick is 15k damage. What the *** man?!

Also in the end it's a BUG, not intended.

Judas Helviaryn · February 2019

Keep siege-OP a thing

Rikumaru wrote: »

Uryel wrote: »

Rikumaru wrote: »

Being able to procure a siege from thin air and placing it down in 3 seconds and then proceeding to deal 80% of the enemies HP in 1 hit (with the dot ending you) is stupid.

Because being able to spit fire onto everyone in front of you, calling down a meteor, or healing by waving your hands in the air isn't ?

This game has magic. Deal with it.

Also, has anyone here taken a direct hit from a catapult or a ballista IRL ? No, of course, you wouldn't be there to talk about it. A ballista could nail a freaking horse to a stone wall...

Sure thing, but when I call down my meteor I want it to act how it would do IRL. Because if you got hit by a meteor the size of the one you have in the game, you wouldn't be there to talk about it

GC0 wrote: »

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/444948818459361299/550250654258429969/thisshouldnotbeathing1.png

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/444948818459361299/550250655189827584/shouldnotbeathing2.png

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/444948818459361299/550250657492238346/shouldnotbeathing3.png

This should be in the game, seriously? This is just ridiculous. 1 colfire tick is 15k damage. What the *** man?!

Also in the end it's a BUG, not intended.

Animation cancelling was unintended, and it was the one thing that gave us fast paced, reactive and relatively skill-based combat and build complexity, and stood ESO out from the crowd.

Are you anti-AC?

GC0 · February 2019

Nah remove it they are just for knock doors/walls

Judas Helviaryn wrote: »

Rikumaru wrote: »

Uryel wrote: »

Rikumaru wrote: »

Being able to procure a siege from thin air and placing it down in 3 seconds and then proceeding to deal 80% of the enemies HP in 1 hit (with the dot ending you) is stupid.

Because being able to spit fire onto everyone in front of you, calling down a meteor, or healing by waving your hands in the air isn't ?

This game has magic. Deal with it.

Also, has anyone here taken a direct hit from a catapult or a ballista IRL ? No, of course, you wouldn't be there to talk about it. A ballista could nail a freaking horse to a stone wall...

Sure thing, but when I call down my meteor I want it to act how it would do IRL. Because if you got hit by a meteor the size of the one you have in the game, you wouldn't be there to talk about it

GC0 wrote: »

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/444948818459361299/550250654258429969/thisshouldnotbeathing1.png

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/444948818459361299/550250655189827584/shouldnotbeathing2.png

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/444948818459361299/550250657492238346/shouldnotbeathing3.png

This should be in the game, seriously? This is just ridiculous. 1 colfire tick is 15k damage. What the *** man?!

Also in the end it's a BUG, not intended.

Animation cancelling was unintended, and it was the one thing that gave us fast paced, reactive and relatively skill-based combat and build complexity, and stood ESO out from the crowd.

Are you anti-AC?

Yeah clearly I am one of the people that hate cancelling on their stamdks :^). Of course not lmao. Animation cancelling was an unintended byproduct of the combat system while siege is an unintended bug. It's two completely different things, one requires you to get used to it and play the game and the other says *** it all throw all combat out of the window and just left click. Are you seriously trying to compare siege to actual combat?

Judas Helviaryn · February 2019

Keep siege-OP a thing

GC0 wrote: »

Judas Helviaryn wrote: »

Rikumaru wrote: »

Uryel wrote: »

Rikumaru wrote: »

Being able to procure a siege from thin air and placing it down in 3 seconds and then proceeding to deal 80% of the enemies HP in 1 hit (with the dot ending you) is stupid.

Because being able to spit fire onto everyone in front of you, calling down a meteor, or healing by waving your hands in the air isn't ?

This game has magic. Deal with it.

Also, has anyone here taken a direct hit from a catapult or a ballista IRL ? No, of course, you wouldn't be there to talk about it. A ballista could nail a freaking horse to a stone wall...

Sure thing, but when I call down my meteor I want it to act how it would do IRL. Because if you got hit by a meteor the size of the one you have in the game, you wouldn't be there to talk about it

GC0 wrote: »

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/444948818459361299/550250654258429969/thisshouldnotbeathing1.png

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/444948818459361299/550250655189827584/shouldnotbeathing2.png

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/444948818459361299/550250657492238346/shouldnotbeathing3.png

This should be in the game, seriously? This is just ridiculous. 1 colfire tick is 15k damage. What the *** man?!

Also in the end it's a BUG, not intended.

Animation cancelling was unintended, and it was the one thing that gave us fast paced, reactive and relatively skill-based combat and build complexity, and stood ESO out from the crowd.

Are you anti-AC?

Yeah clearly I am one of the people that hate cancelling on their stamdks :^). Of course not lmao. Animation cancelling was an unintended byproduct of the combat system while siege is an unintended bug. It's two completely different things, one requires you to get used to it and play the game and the other says *** it all throw all combat out of the window and just left click. Are you seriously trying to compare siege to actual combat?

Through the virtue of unintended mechanics, that's exactly it, yes. I'm pointing out to you, that your argument becomes a disingenuous double standard if you don't apply it consistently.

Unintended is unintended, and you use that fact as if it were a bad thing, and detracted from all other potential merits of said consequence. I'm saying this because "unintended byproduct" and "unintended bug" is a rationalization to separate what you like and don't like, when they're the same thing, rather than objectively paring down the pros and cons of adopting this system as it is.

Argue, don't appeal.

GC0 · February 2019

Nah remove it they are just for knock doors/walls

Judas Helviaryn wrote: »

GC0 wrote: »

Judas Helviaryn wrote: »

Rikumaru wrote: »

Uryel wrote: »

Rikumaru wrote: »

Being able to procure a siege from thin air and placing it down in 3 seconds and then proceeding to deal 80% of the enemies HP in 1 hit (with the dot ending you) is stupid.

Because being able to spit fire onto everyone in front of you, calling down a meteor, or healing by waving your hands in the air isn't ?

This game has magic. Deal with it.

Also, has anyone here taken a direct hit from a catapult or a ballista IRL ? No, of course, you wouldn't be there to talk about it. A ballista could nail a freaking horse to a stone wall...

Sure thing, but when I call down my meteor I want it to act how it would do IRL. Because if you got hit by a meteor the size of the one you have in the game, you wouldn't be there to talk about it

GC0 wrote: »

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/444948818459361299/550250654258429969/thisshouldnotbeathing1.png

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/444948818459361299/550250655189827584/shouldnotbeathing2.png

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/444948818459361299/550250657492238346/shouldnotbeathing3.png

This should be in the game, seriously? This is just ridiculous. 1 colfire tick is 15k damage. What the *** man?!

Also in the end it's a BUG, not intended.

Animation cancelling was unintended, and it was the one thing that gave us fast paced, reactive and relatively skill-based combat and build complexity, and stood ESO out from the crowd.

Are you anti-AC?

Yeah clearly I am one of the people that hate cancelling on their stamdks :^). Of course not lmao. Animation cancelling was an unintended byproduct of the combat system while siege is an unintended bug. It's two completely different things, one requires you to get used to it and play the game and the other says *** it all throw all combat out of the window and just left click. Are you seriously trying to compare siege to actual combat?

Through the virtue of unintended mechanics, that's exactly it, yes. I'm pointing out to you, that your argument becomes a disingenuous double standard if you don't apply it consistently.

Unintended is unintended, and you use that fact as if it were a bad thing, and detracted from all other potential merits of said consequence. I'm saying this because "unintended byproduct" and "unintended bug" is a rationalization to separate what you like and don't like, when they're the same thing, rather than objectively paring down the pros and cons of adopting this system as it is.

Argue, don't appeal.

I am arguing lol. It's not a double standard, it hardly is when you take into account how different these things are. One makes the ceiling higher the other allows a player to just left click. It's ridiculous how some people like you can compare these two completely different things.

You want pros and cons?

Animation cancelling

Pros: faster gameplay, more fun, higher skill ceiling
Cons:a few shitters who can't figure out cry about it when someone yeets on them while using it

Siege

Pros: can kill zergs faster if they don't siege back and somehow corner them
Cons: the same thing applies to small-scallers they die much faster it's also much harder for them to set up siege while being under pressure and it just an advantage towards the zergs and that's the last thing you want. It's also especially bad for small groups of 2-3 players who just don't even use siege.

Judas Helviaryn · February 2019

Keep siege-OP a thing

GC0 wrote: »

Judas Helviaryn wrote: »

GC0 wrote: »

Judas Helviaryn wrote: »

Rikumaru wrote: »

Uryel wrote: »

Rikumaru wrote: »

Being able to procure a siege from thin air and placing it down in 3 seconds and then proceeding to deal 80% of the enemies HP in 1 hit (with the dot ending you) is stupid.

Because being able to spit fire onto everyone in front of you, calling down a meteor, or healing by waving your hands in the air isn't ?

This game has magic. Deal with it.

Also, has anyone here taken a direct hit from a catapult or a ballista IRL ? No, of course, you wouldn't be there to talk about it. A ballista could nail a freaking horse to a stone wall...

Sure thing, but when I call down my meteor I want it to act how it would do IRL. Because if you got hit by a meteor the size of the one you have in the game, you wouldn't be there to talk about it

GC0 wrote: »

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/444948818459361299/550250654258429969/thisshouldnotbeathing1.png

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/444948818459361299/550250655189827584/shouldnotbeathing2.png

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/444948818459361299/550250657492238346/shouldnotbeathing3.png

This should be in the game, seriously? This is just ridiculous. 1 colfire tick is 15k damage. What the *** man?!

Also in the end it's a BUG, not intended.

Animation cancelling was unintended, and it was the one thing that gave us fast paced, reactive and relatively skill-based combat and build complexity, and stood ESO out from the crowd.

Are you anti-AC?

Yeah clearly I am one of the people that hate cancelling on their stamdks :^). Of course not lmao. Animation cancelling was an unintended byproduct of the combat system while siege is an unintended bug. It's two completely different things, one requires you to get used to it and play the game and the other says *** it all throw all combat out of the window and just left click. Are you seriously trying to compare siege to actual combat?

Through the virtue of unintended mechanics, that's exactly it, yes. I'm pointing out to you, that your argument becomes a disingenuous double standard if you don't apply it consistently.

Unintended is unintended, and you use that fact as if it were a bad thing, and detracted from all other potential merits of said consequence. I'm saying this because "unintended byproduct" and "unintended bug" is a rationalization to separate what you like and don't like, when they're the same thing, rather than objectively paring down the pros and cons of adopting this system as it is.

Argue, don't appeal.

I am arguing lol. It's not a double standard, it hardly is when you take into account how different these things are. One makes the ceiling higher the other allows a player to just left click. It's ridiculous how some people like you can compare these two completely different things.

Using your own rationale, raising the ceiling is a good thing. What do you think happens, when siege is so powerful, zergs can't rapid and healbot through one hole in a wall, taking a keep with little effort?

That's when they have to knock down more walls, or find ways to destroy/misdirect the enemy siege. It makes their own siege a necessary tool and counter. It MAKES the game more complex, and that's the same thing as raising the ceiling.

The siege of the keep lasts longer, and requires more effort all around to both defend and attack.

As I said before, it's the difference between sitting on one wall taking pot shots, and having an evolving battlefield to adapt and respond to.

There's even another thread open detailing the very instance and example of this happening tonight.

It's the same thing as arguing for more mechanic-based gameplay vs DPS racing and bypassing said mechanics in PVE.

GC0 · February 2019

Nah remove it they are just for knock doors/walls

Judas Helviaryn wrote: »

GC0 wrote: »

Judas Helviaryn wrote: »

GC0 wrote: »

Judas Helviaryn wrote: »

Rikumaru wrote: »

Uryel wrote: »

Rikumaru wrote: »

Being able to procure a siege from thin air and placing it down in 3 seconds and then proceeding to deal 80% of the enemies HP in 1 hit (with the dot ending you) is stupid.

Because being able to spit fire onto everyone in front of you, calling down a meteor, or healing by waving your hands in the air isn't ?

This game has magic. Deal with it.

Also, has anyone here taken a direct hit from a catapult or a ballista IRL ? No, of course, you wouldn't be there to talk about it. A ballista could nail a freaking horse to a stone wall...

Sure thing, but when I call down my meteor I want it to act how it would do IRL. Because if you got hit by a meteor the size of the one you have in the game, you wouldn't be there to talk about it

GC0 wrote: »

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/444948818459361299/550250654258429969/thisshouldnotbeathing1.png

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/444948818459361299/550250655189827584/shouldnotbeathing2.png

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/444948818459361299/550250657492238346/shouldnotbeathing3.png

This should be in the game, seriously? This is just ridiculous. 1 colfire tick is 15k damage. What the *** man?!

Also in the end it's a BUG, not intended.

Animation cancelling was unintended, and it was the one thing that gave us fast paced, reactive and relatively skill-based combat and build complexity, and stood ESO out from the crowd.

Are you anti-AC?

Yeah clearly I am one of the people that hate cancelling on their stamdks :^). Of course not lmao. Animation cancelling was an unintended byproduct of the combat system while siege is an unintended bug. It's two completely different things, one requires you to get used to it and play the game and the other says *** it all throw all combat out of the window and just left click. Are you seriously trying to compare siege to actual combat?

Through the virtue of unintended mechanics, that's exactly it, yes. I'm pointing out to you, that your argument becomes a disingenuous double standard if you don't apply it consistently.

Unintended is unintended, and you use that fact as if it were a bad thing, and detracted from all other potential merits of said consequence. I'm saying this because "unintended byproduct" and "unintended bug" is a rationalization to separate what you like and don't like, when they're the same thing, rather than objectively paring down the pros and cons of adopting this system as it is.

Argue, don't appeal.

I am arguing lol. It's not a double standard, it hardly is when you take into account how different these things are. One makes the ceiling higher the other allows a player to just left click. It's ridiculous how some people like you can compare these two completely different things.

Using your own rationale, raising the ceiling is a good thing. What do you think happens, when siege is so powerful, zergs can't rapid and healbot through one hole in a wall, taking a keep with little effort?

That's when they have to knock down more walls, or find ways to destroy/misdirect the enemy siege. It makes their own siege a necessary tool and counter. It MAKES the game more complex, and that's the same thing as raising the ceiling.

It's the same thing as arguing for more mechanic-based gameplay vs DPS racing and bypassing said mechanics in PVE.

Moving siege to an another wall and left clicking more complex LOL. This was already a thing before the siege bug, people couldn't get passed and then proceeded to siege the next wall.

Dude what you are saying is completely irrational. Things like "a siege bug which does more damage to players is good" being said is completely stupid. Do you even stop and think?

Judas Helviaryn · February 2019

Keep siege-OP a thing

GC0 wrote: »

Judas Helviaryn wrote: »

GC0 wrote: »

Judas Helviaryn wrote: »

GC0 wrote: »

Judas Helviaryn wrote: »

Rikumaru wrote: »

Uryel wrote: »

Rikumaru wrote: »

Being able to procure a siege from thin air and placing it down in 3 seconds and then proceeding to deal 80% of the enemies HP in 1 hit (with the dot ending you) is stupid.

Because being able to spit fire onto everyone in front of you, calling down a meteor, or healing by waving your hands in the air isn't ?

This game has magic. Deal with it.

Also, has anyone here taken a direct hit from a catapult or a ballista IRL ? No, of course, you wouldn't be there to talk about it. A ballista could nail a freaking horse to a stone wall...

Sure thing, but when I call down my meteor I want it to act how it would do IRL. Because if you got hit by a meteor the size of the one you have in the game, you wouldn't be there to talk about it

GC0 wrote: »

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/444948818459361299/550250654258429969/thisshouldnotbeathing1.png

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/444948818459361299/550250655189827584/shouldnotbeathing2.png

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/444948818459361299/550250657492238346/shouldnotbeathing3.png

This should be in the game, seriously? This is just ridiculous. 1 colfire tick is 15k damage. What the *** man?!

Also in the end it's a BUG, not intended.

Animation cancelling was unintended, and it was the one thing that gave us fast paced, reactive and relatively skill-based combat and build complexity, and stood ESO out from the crowd.

Are you anti-AC?

Yeah clearly I am one of the people that hate cancelling on their stamdks :^). Of course not lmao. Animation cancelling was an unintended byproduct of the combat system while siege is an unintended bug. It's two completely different things, one requires you to get used to it and play the game and the other says *** it all throw all combat out of the window and just left click. Are you seriously trying to compare siege to actual combat?

Through the virtue of unintended mechanics, that's exactly it, yes. I'm pointing out to you, that your argument becomes a disingenuous double standard if you don't apply it consistently.

Unintended is unintended, and you use that fact as if it were a bad thing, and detracted from all other potential merits of said consequence. I'm saying this because "unintended byproduct" and "unintended bug" is a rationalization to separate what you like and don't like, when they're the same thing, rather than objectively paring down the pros and cons of adopting this system as it is.

Argue, don't appeal.

I am arguing lol. It's not a double standard, it hardly is when you take into account how different these things are. One makes the ceiling higher the other allows a player to just left click. It's ridiculous how some people like you can compare these two completely different things.

Using your own rationale, raising the ceiling is a good thing. What do you think happens, when siege is so powerful, zergs can't rapid and healbot through one hole in a wall, taking a keep with little effort?

That's when they have to knock down more walls, or find ways to destroy/misdirect the enemy siege. It makes their own siege a necessary tool and counter. It MAKES the game more complex, and that's the same thing as raising the ceiling.

It's the same thing as arguing for more mechanic-based gameplay vs DPS racing and bypassing said mechanics in PVE.

Moving siege to an another wall and left clicking more complex LOL. This was already a thing before the siege bug, people couldn't get passed and then proceeded to siege the next wall.

Dude what you are saying is completely irrational. Things like "a siege bug which does more damage to players is good" being said is completely stupid. Do you even stop and think?

We're back to personal attacks huh? I guess you need a break.

Go take one, I'll wait!

GC0 · February 2019

Nah remove it they are just for knock doors/walls

Like if it was like proxy detonation I'd be complete for it but not as it is right now

MikaHR · February 2019

Nah remove it they are just for knock doors/walls

Judas Helviaryn wrote: »

Rikumaru wrote: »

Uryel wrote: »

Rikumaru wrote: »

Being able to procure a siege from thin air and placing it down in 3 seconds and then proceeding to deal 80% of the enemies HP in 1 hit (with the dot ending you) is stupid.

Because being able to spit fire onto everyone in front of you, calling down a meteor, or healing by waving your hands in the air isn't ?

This game has magic. Deal with it.

Also, has anyone here taken a direct hit from a catapult or a ballista IRL ? No, of course, you wouldn't be there to talk about it. A ballista could nail a freaking horse to a stone wall...

Sure thing, but when I call down my meteor I want it to act how it would do IRL. Because if you got hit by a meteor the size of the one you have in the game, you wouldn't be there to talk about it

GC0 wrote: »

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/444948818459361299/550250654258429969/thisshouldnotbeathing1.png

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/444948818459361299/550250655189827584/shouldnotbeathing2.png

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/444948818459361299/550250657492238346/shouldnotbeathing3.png

This should be in the game, seriously? This is just ridiculous. 1 colfire tick is 15k damage. What the *** man?!

Also in the end it's a BUG, not intended.

Animation cancelling was unintended, and it was the one thing that gave us fast paced, reactive and relatively skill-based combat and build complexity, and stood ESO out from the crowd.

Are you anti-AC?

It would maybe be great for people with < 50 ping AND when game works properly.

When skills dont fire...at ALL, when weapon swap is unreliable etc etc...theres a reason why other MMOs dont do this.

So all it has gave us is that most of people want it out and fixed as it is influenced by reasons beyond their control.

GC0 · February 2019

Nah remove it they are just for knock doors/walls

MikaHR wrote: »

Judas Helviaryn wrote: »

Rikumaru wrote: »

Uryel wrote: »

Rikumaru wrote: »

Being able to procure a siege from thin air and placing it down in 3 seconds and then proceeding to deal 80% of the enemies HP in 1 hit (with the dot ending you) is stupid.

Because being able to spit fire onto everyone in front of you, calling down a meteor, or healing by waving your hands in the air isn't ?

This game has magic. Deal with it.

Also, has anyone here taken a direct hit from a catapult or a ballista IRL ? No, of course, you wouldn't be there to talk about it. A ballista could nail a freaking horse to a stone wall...

Sure thing, but when I call down my meteor I want it to act how it would do IRL. Because if you got hit by a meteor the size of the one you have in the game, you wouldn't be there to talk about it

GC0 wrote: »

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/444948818459361299/550250654258429969/thisshouldnotbeathing1.png

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/444948818459361299/550250655189827584/shouldnotbeathing2.png

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/444948818459361299/550250657492238346/shouldnotbeathing3.png

This should be in the game, seriously? This is just ridiculous. 1 colfire tick is 15k damage. What the *** man?!

Also in the end it's a BUG, not intended.

Animation cancelling was unintended, and it was the one thing that gave us fast paced, reactive and relatively skill-based combat and build complexity, and stood ESO out from the crowd.

Are you anti-AC?

It would maybe be great for people with < 50 ping AND when game works properly.

When skills dont fire...at ALL, when weapon swap is unreliable etc etc...theres a reason why other MMOs dont do this.

So all it has gave us is that most of people want it out and fixed as it is influenced by reasons beyond their control.

Animation cancelling works fine at 130-150 ping as long as it's not primetime vivec last patch and most people don't want it out lol.

biggda76 · February 2019

Nah remove it they are just for knock doors/walls

GC0 wrote: »

Judas Helviaryn wrote: »

GC0 wrote: »

The amount of damage you take from siege is ridiculous. Getting hit by one literally means death and zerglings spam siege on you, especially coldfires which are 15k a tick which is just a joke. Anyone that says that it should be kept is just not thinking straight. It doesn't make the pvp fun, it makes it cancerous because you have to actively dodge a siege which is meters away sometimes where you can't reach immediately. One guy without any issues can destroy your fights. It's very fun to be sieged 1v4-5 btw you should try getting sieged then :^). It's genuinely worse than snipe(as in it being literally cancer) when getting outnumbered and snipe needs to be removed in the state that it is right now. This siege thing is just incredibly bad for the pvp of the game as well. You are actively trying to to left click everyone down from a safe distance instead of using actual skills. Like come on you're not even pvping you're just clicking left click.

One guy with speciAlized equipment being able to give you and yours a hard time with the press of a button, supporting his front line allies?

Having to dodge hazards in the field to complete your objective?

Fair fights? Sounds to me like you want battlegrounds and brawling, not an objective-based war campaign.

There has to be some kind of dynamic that differentiates the three.

This is ridiculous lol. One guy supporting the rest of a pugs is just stupid. Yeah sure sieges should be able to do damage but last patch they were already cancerous enough.

I didn't mention a single thing about being fair, I just don't want it to be harder than it already is for people like me, who small-scale to deal with zergs.

You being able to land a single left click attack should not mean the death of the small-scaller, period.

I am sure you want to keep this bug just because you can't play properly yourself and get yeeted on daily when trying to zerg people down

This is a summary of people that want to keep siege strong as bug atm is. If you want to 1 shot people that you already outnumber because you can't kill them in fair fight or even one where you outnumber the guy then you really need to get good. Everyone knows 1vX/smallscale exists only because of bad players being not good enough to kill a good player. Giving everyone opportunity to 1 shot people without any condition is beyond ridiculous and if you truly believe it needs to stay as it is then most likely you aren't a very good player

Judas Helviaryn · February 2019

Keep siege-OP a thing

MikaHR wrote: »

Judas Helviaryn wrote: »

Rikumaru wrote: »

Uryel wrote: »

Rikumaru wrote: »

Being able to procure a siege from thin air and placing it down in 3 seconds and then proceeding to deal 80% of the enemies HP in 1 hit (with the dot ending you) is stupid.

Because being able to spit fire onto everyone in front of you, calling down a meteor, or healing by waving your hands in the air isn't ?

This game has magic. Deal with it.

Also, has anyone here taken a direct hit from a catapult or a ballista IRL ? No, of course, you wouldn't be there to talk about it. A ballista could nail a freaking horse to a stone wall...

Sure thing, but when I call down my meteor I want it to act how it would do IRL. Because if you got hit by a meteor the size of the one you have in the game, you wouldn't be there to talk about it

GC0 wrote: »

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/444948818459361299/550250654258429969/thisshouldnotbeathing1.png

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/444948818459361299/550250655189827584/shouldnotbeathing2.png

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/444948818459361299/550250657492238346/shouldnotbeathing3.png

This should be in the game, seriously? This is just ridiculous. 1 colfire tick is 15k damage. What the *** man?!

Also in the end it's a BUG, not intended.

Animation cancelling was unintended, and it was the one thing that gave us fast paced, reactive and relatively skill-based combat and build complexity, and stood ESO out from the crowd.

Are you anti-AC?

It would maybe be great for people with < 50 ping AND when game works properly.

When skills dont fire...at ALL, when weapon swap is unreliable etc etc...theres a reason why other MMOs dont do this.

So all it has gave us is that most of people want it out and fixed as it is influenced by reasons beyond their control.

I'm sorry you deal with this. I had satellite for four years on this game, which has a minimum ping of roughly 600, and for me, an average of 1400 to 2000 in combat. I was able to animation cancel absolutely fine, believe it or not, but my jitter was low. I believe that is the defining factor; Jitter, not latency to that rough threshold.

That being said, the game is designed around a standard, and that's probably going to be relatively low ping and stable connectivity.

It sucks, especially for our Oceanic friends. I still would miss mine dearly if they ever did launch a server in that spot of the world.

We all make due how we can.

Itzmichi · February 2019

Tasear wrote: »

Siege equipment should be able to be used for sieges...

Yeah still tho, when you got hit by a catapult or a trebuchet in real life you die. It doesn't matter to the siege weapon if you are a wall or a human.

Rikumaru · February 2019

Nah remove it they are just for knock doors/walls

Itsmichi wrote: »

Tasear wrote: »

Siege equipment should be able to be used for sieges...

Yeah still tho, when you got hit by a catapult or a trebuchet in real life you die. It doesn't matter to the siege weapon if you are a wall or a human.

meteor.jpg?w=736&e=e44b150b14ef1546731f8ca53fae6e4e

My meteor doesn't care if you are a wall or human either.

Jierdanit · February 2019

Nah remove it they are just for knock doors/walls

No it definitely needs a fix.

In my opinion skilled play should be encouraged and ZOS should encourage players to learn to play and to invest more than just AP into their chars (time to learn how they work :P).

They shouldnt make the madness siege already is even stronger.
Already enough people only stand on top of their keep walls and fire siege... even when they outnumber you 3 to 1.
It is ridiculous that people can do 20+k AOE damage with one mouseclick, you dont need to make that even stronger.

phantasmalD · February 2019

Why not just create a new separate CP campaign with double Siege weapons?

Have it open for a month and see if it remains popular or dies within a week.

Mr_Walker · February 2019

Judas Helviaryn wrote: »

GC0 wrote: »

Judas Helviaryn wrote: »

GC0 wrote: »

Judas Helviaryn wrote: »

Rikumaru wrote: »

Uryel wrote: »

Rikumaru wrote: »

Being able to procure a siege from thin air and placing it down in 3 seconds and then proceeding to deal 80% of the enemies HP in 1 hit (with the dot ending you) is stupid.

Because being able to spit fire onto everyone in front of you, calling down a meteor, or healing by waving your hands in the air isn't ?

This game has magic. Deal with it.

Also, has anyone here taken a direct hit from a catapult or a ballista IRL ? No, of course, you wouldn't be there to talk about it. A ballista could nail a freaking horse to a stone wall...

Sure thing, but when I call down my meteor I want it to act how it would do IRL. Because if you got hit by a meteor the size of the one you have in the game, you wouldn't be there to talk about it

GC0 wrote: »

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/444948818459361299/550250654258429969/thisshouldnotbeathing1.png

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/444948818459361299/550250655189827584/shouldnotbeathing2.png

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/444948818459361299/550250657492238346/shouldnotbeathing3.png

This should be in the game, seriously? This is just ridiculous. 1 colfire tick is 15k damage. What the *** man?!

Also in the end it's a BUG, not intended.

Animation cancelling was unintended, and it was the one thing that gave us fast paced, reactive and relatively skill-based combat and build complexity, and stood ESO out from the crowd.

Are you anti-AC?

Yeah clearly I am one of the people that hate cancelling on their stamdks :^). Of course not lmao. Animation cancelling was an unintended byproduct of the combat system while siege is an unintended bug. It's two completely different things, one requires you to get used to it and play the game and the other says *** it all throw all combat out of the window and just left click. Are you seriously trying to compare siege to actual combat?

Through the virtue of unintended mechanics, that's exactly it, yes. I'm pointing out to you, that your argument becomes a disingenuous double standard if you don't apply it consistently.

Unintended is unintended, and you use that fact as if it were a bad thing, and detracted from all other potential merits of said consequence. I'm saying this because "unintended byproduct" and "unintended bug" is a rationalization to separate what you like and don't like, when they're the same thing, rather than objectively paring down the pros and cons of adopting this system as it is.

Argue, don't appeal.

I am arguing lol. It's not a double standard, it hardly is when you take into account how different these things are. One makes the ceiling higher the other allows a player to just left click. It's ridiculous how some people like you can compare these two completely different things.

Using your own rationale, raising the ceiling is a good thing. What do you think happens, when siege is so powerful, zergs can't rapid and healbot through one hole in a wall, taking a keep with little effort?

That's when they have to knock down more walls, or find ways to destroy/misdirect the enemy siege. It makes their own siege a necessary tool and counter. It MAKES the game more complex, and that's the same thing as raising the ceiling.

The siege of the keep lasts longer, and requires more effort all around to both defend and attack.

As I said before, it's the difference between sitting on one wall taking pot shots, and having an evolving battlefield to adapt and respond to.

There's even another thread open detailing the very instance and example of this happening tonight.

It's the same thing as arguing for more mechanic-based gameplay vs DPS racing and bypassing said mechanics in PVE.

Yes, going to another wall and hitting that, wow, it's like grandmaster levl 14D chess.