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About this Siege Change - Proposal
RealPhoenix
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Alright after reading this post you seriously got me worried.
You can't honestly consider that the current state of Sieges is a good idea?
If sieging stays like it is now, you are pretty much killing the possibility for people to play in outnumbered situations. Not even only that, you are literally killing pvp, cause all that's happening is zergs sieging each other to death - is that really what the whole of cyrodiil should be about? Sieging? Should the whole point of pvp be standing still while moving the mouse and pressing left click?
I cant believe it.
I get that people want siege to be strong and I wouldn't even be against the fact of making siege stronger, but then it has to be in a different frame, with some limitations in place.
No matter where you fight these days, people will siege. Doesn't matter if you're alone, in a small group fighting double your number or in a dedicated pvp group, commonly known as ball group. You get sieged everywhere and constantly. If siege almost one hits you, it's literally impossible, especially for classes without a purge, to survive the hit while also fighting X other people at the same time.
To avoid killing small scale and organized pvp group play, I suggest you either immediately revert the siege damage changes (I don't wanna point any fingers but either you don't have any testing in place or you added the damage on purpose just to test how it goes, both of which is sad) or you implement some limitations for siege. I have some initial ideas that I came up with in 5 minutes, but I'm sure the community (and your team) can provide more or even better limitations:
1. Reducing ballista radii. There is no ballista in the world that hits in a 10m circle.
2. Limiting the amount of siege people can carry.
3. Improving the actual fact of sieging: remove the brain dead spamming of one button that is currently in place and replace it with an interesting system - for instance, make ranged siege like trebuchets be affected by wind so you actually have to think a bit while sieging or make the precision of the siege based on the range of the target, something like that.
I really don't want cyrodiil to become a game that is all about people standing still on Sieges and, to be completely honest, I really can't understand how that can be in the interest of any pvp player.
This thread is NOT a cry thread about what's happening with Siege in PvP atm, that's why it is not posted as a reply to this thread:
OILS NOT SHIELDABLE AND DOING 18K DMG PER TICK
I want to stress that this is a thread about how sieging can be improved / changed, without making Cyrodiil unplayable in situations that do not involve two Zergs bashing their heads in on BRK Maingate. I also want to point out that this post comes from a No-CP standpoint, as I do not currently play in any CP Campaign. If you are criticising the current state of sieges, please state if you are playing in CP or No-CP campaigns.
PC EU - @RealPhoenix | Cyrodiil´s FIST | 1500 CP | Dedicated PvP Player | 36k Achievement Points
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The_Shadowborn✭✭✭Agree with the OP.
How it is currently on both Cp and Non Cp isn't good for PVP. Unless you love riding you horse across Cyrodiil all day.
One idea maybe to add a cap to each seige type in an area, so there can be say only 5 fire balistas in a keep at a time.
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Ixtyr✭✭✭✭✭Buffing siege only promotes more faction stacking. More people to help rez, to put down camps, to siege down more sides of the keep, more bodies to push through breaches so at least some of them get through to break the line.
Faction stacking is what the game needs to discourage, not encourage.
It'd be one thing if the servers could perform and the game could handle what it was marketed to be able to handle, but that's not the case. We've got population caps 1/5th the size of launch day now, and the game still can't run smoothly. Making it even more difficult for groups to go take things away from the faction stack will just continue to make that worse.Ixtyr Falavir - Bosmer Nightblade - Daggerfall Covenant
Reya Falavir - Dunmer Nightblade - Aldmeri Dominion
Kaylin Falavir - Dunmer Nightblade - Ebonheart Pact
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Alyna Falavir - Dunmer Dragonknight - Daggerfall Covenant
Aernah Falavir - Altmer Templar - Daggerfall Covenant
Aranis Falavir - Bosmer Sorcerer - Daggerfall Covenant
Aerin Falavir - Bosmer Warden - Daggerfall Covenant
Rhys Falavir - Orc Sorcerer - Aldmeri Dominion
Rhiannon Falavir - Altmer Templar - Aldmeri Dominion
Nenara Falavir - Argonian Warden - Aldmeri Dominion
Neera Falavir - Orc Warden - Aldmeri Dominion
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The Ska'vyn Exchange - Guild Master
Vehemence - Officer
Nightfighters - Member
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Ømni - Guild Master (Retired)
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Moderator of /r/elderscrollsonline10 -
Tattooo✭✭✭As I said in another forum post, the absurd dmg isn´t limited to only siege, players are also dealing absurd dmg right now.I AM INNOCENT9 -
INinjaNinja✭✭✭Rejoice zerglings that cant 5v1 players! Your'e prayers are being answered with zos considering giving you free skill less kills, no longer will you have to work for your AP simply set up seige and press left click till youre drowning in undeserved AP
ALL HAIL THE COMBAT BALANCE TEAM!13 -
Tattooo✭✭✭Someone under my thread also mentioned that battlespirit might be broken, which is definitely worth looking into. DEAR ZOSI AM INNOCENT4
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Vapirko✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭@ZOS_GinaBruno please under no circumstances should siege be left as it is rn. It is absurd. It’s already fine as is in no CP. It could be buffed in CP but this is way way way over the top.5 -
DirkRavenclaw✭✭✭✭Before this Change, we, DIG needed 3 to 5 mins to take a siege, just staying stupid at the siege, getting hit once, twice, heal yourself a second, continue, now it is actually hard and awersome. Please dont go back to stupid one click and just adjust it a little bit ZOS, Thank you for even considering this.Council Member of AtWritsEnd, Member of LoneWolfeHelp, Donor of GhostSeaTradingCO., Factor of EastEmpireTradingCO.,HonourGuard of ´DominionImperialGuard(DIG/PVP)
Master Crafter including Jewelry, i craft for Mats and Donation, always happy to help, if Im not in the Middle of PVP, i play since around 14 Months2 -
TequilaFire✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭White wabbit wrote: »Small scale PvP suffers again
Not really if some one sets up a siege in a small field battle just rush it and kill them as they are helpless.
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d3adpain✭✭✭**** nerfing it , lets buff for to make 10 times stronger and un-purgeable and increase the radius by 100 meter.
this game is so done atm, lets make stupid things that don't require skill killing people as if they were flies
how the hell can some one can consider this good thing, this is completely stupid4 -
Tan9oSuccka✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭INinjaNinja wrote: »Rejoice zerglings that cant 5v1 players! Your'e prayers are being answered with zos considering giving you free skill less kills, no longer will you have to work for your AP simply set up seige and press left click till youre drowning in undeserved AP
ALL HAIL THE COMBAT BALANCE TEAM!
Running in circles around a keep tower for 20 minutes doesn’t really equate skill either.
But they need to make siege matter. Maybe not quite this severe, but a lot more than it was.22 -
technohic✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Buffing siege only promotes more faction stacking. More people to help rez, to put down camps, to siege down more sides of the keep, more bodies to push through breaches so at least some of them get through to break the line.
Faction stacking is what the game needs to discourage, not encourage.
It'd be one thing if the servers could perform and the game could handle what it was marketed to be able to handle, but that's not the case. We've got population caps 1/5th the size of launch day now, and the game still can't run smoothly. Making it even more difficult for groups to go take things away from the faction stack will just continue to make that worse.
Problem with this argument Ixy is; the game performed a LOT better last night than it has in months. Yes there were stacks at keeps but abilities were firing and everything was working, save for the getting locked on one bar if you get stunned mid weapon swap, but that doesnt seem to be lag related.7 -
Neoauspex✭✭✭✭✭
✭White wabbit wrote: »
Might have more participation if there was a campaign with decent performance.0 -
WoppaBoem✭✭✭✭✭Siege should feel more powerfull, good healers can out heal it too easy. Siege against Siege and then storm breaches sounds fun by me. Plus being able to defend with less people makes this also possible. With a few guys pooring oils and meatbags against a zerg they just easy outheal it and they will take the keep easy.Xbox EU & NA - PVP Only5 -
bitels✭✭✭✭Buffing siege only promotes more faction stacking. More people to help rez, to put down camps, to siege down more sides of the keep, more bodies to push through breaches so at least some of them get through to break the line.
Faction stacking is what the game needs to discourage, not encourage.
It'd be one thing if the servers could perform and the game could handle what it was marketed to be able to handle, but that's not the case. We've got population caps 1/5th the size of launch day now, and the game still can't run smoothly. Making it even more difficult for groups to go take things away from the faction stack will just continue to make that worse.
Problem with this argument Ixy is; the game performed a LOT better last night than it has in months. Yes there were stacks at keeps but abilities were firing and everything was working, save for the getting locked on one bar if you get stunned mid weapon swap, but that doesnt seem to be lag related.
Game would perform even better when there will be no one left in Cyrodil
But tbs- im ok woth buffing siege engines, but not to this level. Only thing you will accomplish by that is promoting night caping whole map, as regaining control during prime time, when population is more or less equal, will be far more harder.
Remember also about Sotha Sil players that dont have extra 30-50% mitigation from champion pointsEdited by bitels on February 26, 2019 4:50PM2 -
ZOS_MikaadminWe have recently removed a few non-constructive and bashing comments. Please ensure that this discussion remains civil and constructive. It is perfectly fine to disagree or have a difference of opinion, but insults and personal attacks are inappropriate. Thanks for your understanding.The Elder Scrolls Online: Tamriel Unlimited - ZeniMax Online Studios
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TBois✭✭✭✭✭
✭Siege should feel more powerfull, good healers can out heal it too easy. Siege against Siege and then storm breaches sounds fun by me. Plus being able to defend with less people makes this also possible. With a few guys pooring oils and meatbags against a zerg they just easy outheal it and they will take the keep easy.
I think keeps should be harder to take. Siege doing this much damage obviously helps that, but the point and click gameplay is super boring to me. Do you think you will be this excited about using siege in 5 years? This isn't a gameplay ZOS should be promoting because it's not fun outside of watching people blow up. If they keep siege damage increased (not at this level but maybe somewhere in between) at least make a slider and give a sweet spot to hit for more damage or something. As it is it's an utterly boring thing to use often.PC/NA
T-Bois (Stam Sorc since 1.4) - AD
An Unsettling Snowball (Templar) - AD
Bosquecito (Stam Sorc) - DC
Peti-T-Bois (Stamden) - AD3 -
Feanor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭You aren't supposed to win when outnumbered greatly.
You absolutely are when you are playing much better than your opponents. A chess grandmaster is supposed to win vs 20 amateurs even if they combine and are allowed to discuss.
Main characters: Feanor the Believer - AD Altmer mSorc - AR 50 - Flawless Conqueror (PC EU)Idril Arnanor - AD Altmer mSorc - CP 217 - Stormproof (PC NA)Other characters:Necrophilius Killgood - DC Imperial NecromancerFearscales - AD Argonian Templar - Stormproof (healer)Draco Imperialis - AD Imperial DK (tank)Cabed Naearamarth - AD Dunmer mDKValirion Willowthorne - AD Bosmer stamBladeTuruna - AD Altmer magBladeKheled Zaram - AD Redguard stamDKKibil Nala - AD Redguard stamSorc - StormproofYavanna Kémentárí - AD Breton magWardenAzog gro-Ghâsh - EP Orc stamWardenVidar Drakenblød - DC Nord mDKMarquis de Peyrac - DC Breton mSorc - StormproofRawlith Khaj'ra - AD Khajiit stamWardenTu'waccah - AD Redguard StamplarAll chars 50 @ CP 1900+. Playing and enjoying PvP with RdK mostly on PC EU.16 -
SKYICE01✭✭✭Please also add a siege pack 10 cold fires for 200 crowns. Since you guys want to kill smallscale so badly. And hey nice money also all you guys care about.Edited by SKYICE01 on February 26, 2019 5:05PM3
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Tan9oSuccka✭✭✭✭✭
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Uh oh. Sounds like a pitch for balancing for 1 v X.
No. You can be yolo swag 420 and animation cancel, and used the most whacked out bugged builds and sets.....
When facing 10 decent people, you will and should lose.8 -
Feanor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Tan9oSuccka wrote: »
Uh oh. Sounds like a pitch for balancing for 1 v X.
No. You can be yolo swag 420 and animation cancel, and used the most whacked out bugged builds and sets.....
When facing 10 decent people, you will and should lose.
Yes, and that’s what’s happening in Cyrodiil and has always happened. No need to buff Siege through the roof.
Main characters: Feanor the Believer - AD Altmer mSorc - AR 50 - Flawless Conqueror (PC EU)Idril Arnanor - AD Altmer mSorc - CP 217 - Stormproof (PC NA)Other characters:Necrophilius Killgood - DC Imperial NecromancerFearscales - AD Argonian Templar - Stormproof (healer)Draco Imperialis - AD Imperial DK (tank)Cabed Naearamarth - AD Dunmer mDKValirion Willowthorne - AD Bosmer stamBladeTuruna - AD Altmer magBladeKheled Zaram - AD Redguard stamDKKibil Nala - AD Redguard stamSorc - StormproofYavanna Kémentárí - AD Breton magWardenAzog gro-Ghâsh - EP Orc stamWardenVidar Drakenblød - DC Nord mDKMarquis de Peyrac - DC Breton mSorc - StormproofRawlith Khaj'ra - AD Khajiit stamWardenTu'waccah - AD Redguard StamplarAll chars 50 @ CP 1900+. Playing and enjoying PvP with RdK mostly on PC EU.7 -
technohic✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Buffing siege only promotes more faction stacking. More people to help rez, to put down camps, to siege down more sides of the keep, more bodies to push through breaches so at least some of them get through to break the line.
Faction stacking is what the game needs to discourage, not encourage.
It'd be one thing if the servers could perform and the game could handle what it was marketed to be able to handle, but that's not the case. We've got population caps 1/5th the size of launch day now, and the game still can't run smoothly. Making it even more difficult for groups to go take things away from the faction stack will just continue to make that worse.
Problem with this argument Ixy is; the game performed a LOT better last night than it has in months. Yes there were stacks at keeps but abilities were firing and everything was working, save for the getting locked on one bar if you get stunned mid weapon swap, but that doesnt seem to be lag related.
Game would perform even better when there will be no one left in Cyrodil
But tbs- im ok woth buffing siege engines, but not to this level. Only thing you will accomplish by that is promoting night caping whole map, as regaining control during prime time, when population is more or less equal, will be far more harder.
Remember also about Sotha Sil players that dont have extra 30-50% mitigation from champion points
I agree with you here. It's a bit much now but having some more bite more than before is not too bad. And they really need it to be different in non CP than CP.0 -
Aliyavana✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Tan9oSuccka wrote: »
Uh oh. Sounds like a pitch for balancing for 1 v X.
No. You can be yolo swag 420 and animation cancel, and used the most whacked out bugged builds and sets.....
When facing 10 decent people, you will and should lose.
When facing 10 bad players, 1 player should be able to do work10 -
Tan9oSuccka✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Tan9oSuccka wrote: »
Uh oh. Sounds like a pitch for balancing for 1 v X.
No. You can be yolo swag 420 and animation cancel, and used the most whacked out bugged builds and sets.....
When facing 10 decent people, you will and should lose.
Yes, and that’s what’s happening in Cyrodiil and has always happened. No need to buff Siege through the roof.
I’m confused with your chess reference as it suggests one excellent player should simultaneously face roll 20 poor ones.
Siege does need another buff as CP and sets have gotten stronger.
I’d say at least a 20% increase in damage in CP campaigns and no changes in Non CP.
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Heimpai✭✭✭✭✭I’ve been without power since sunday night but from what I’ve seen is that it’s a bit much..
However i do believe it needed a slight buff (not 40k in 2 tiks lol)
Currently it’s far to easy to take keeps when the attacking side has far more numbers..(maybe buff siege of the low populated) but again not as much as they did0 -
Tan9oSuccka✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Tan9oSuccka wrote: »
Uh oh. Sounds like a pitch for balancing for 1 v X.
No. You can be yolo swag 420 and animation cancel, and used the most whacked out bugged builds and sets.....
When facing 10 decent people, you will and should lose.
When facing 10 bad players, 1 player should be able to do work
It’s true, however the days of the casual “bad” PVE player going into Cyrodiil is extremely rare.
A huge majority are meta rider vets these days.1
