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Class and Alliance Change Token
What would it take to get Alliance and Class Change tokens? When I started my OG toon so many years ago, I didn't have a preference for anything specific. As I've advanced, and joined a wonderful guild, my main toon can't participate in PvP work since they are the wrong alliance. Equally frustrating is how my play style has adapted, and I can't change my OG toon's class accordingly. I would love to keep knocking out achievements with this character, but I can't without change tokens.
Anyone else think Class/Alliance change tokens are a good idea? What am I missing?
Anyone else think Class/Alliance change tokens are a good idea? What am I missing?
18
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VaranisArano✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Lots of people want them.
ZOS seems to have no interest in providing them.15 -
Gnortranermara✭✭✭✭✭
✭Sadly, I think this is a terrible idea as long as it's monetized. Classes require a lot of balancing and sometimes nerfing, and nerfing anything that is monetized is dirty business. People change their characters to gain some sort of optimization or meet some other personal preference, and it sucks to have that taken away after the transaction has happened. It would cause a lot more customer complaints, as you can see with the current race changes that are screwing a lot of people over. The recklessness of these changes should give anyone reservations about creating more nerfable tokens.
However, if it's not monetized or if they gave one free change per month per subscriber account, I'd be all for it. That's how race should be, too. Charging for non-combat name and appearance (and Alliance) tokens is fine, but nothing combat related should be exclusive to the Crown Store.Edited by Gnortranermara on February 25, 2019 2:31AM6 -
VexingArcanist✭✭✭✭I can't see any reason for any game to offer a complete class change. Either it's in the DNA of the game or it's just should not happen.
Faction change I am on board with. Having left the game for nearly a year all my friends who were the same faction are gone and I have friends in a different faction. Such a token can be cost prohibitive enough to keep flip floppers from jumping faction and the flip of a Crown, say 3000-4000 or even 5000 crowns. 2k may seem legit at first but there are many gamers who would flip flop at that cost.Edited by VexingArcanist on February 25, 2019 2:34AM1 -
Revelzdevelz✭✭✭The alliance token should already be in. You let us all raid together so you will make new friends and want to pvp with them. You can make it a quest to go with lore and even make renown reset. Its just plain dumb to have to reroll to enjoy the game with friends7
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I think a class/alliance change token being cost prohibitive would be ideal. Make it cost 5k crowns, or more if they really wanted to avoid flip flops of alliance/class.2
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lokulin✭✭✭✭✭Totally for this. Arguments against it always come down to some rubbish around balance but since you can respec skills, attributes, gear, race, gender, name, appearance, vampirisim, lycanthropy and CP already changing class seems like a logical progression. The only valid argument against it is the level of technical challenge ZOS would have in implementing it.I've hidden your signature.5 -
efster✭✭✭✭✭ZoS will very likely never give these to us because they most likely need to rewrite the entire character creation process from scratch to make it possible. If these were an easy thing to implement, they would have been in the crown store long ago. It makes more business sense to keep focused on regular DLC releases than rebuild the game just to give players more options.AD is the best looking faction. I don't make the rules, I just enforce them.3 -
SwedishMini✭✭✭I made my nightblade before wardend and morrowind. Yet warden is the type of class I've always wanted to play in ESO. Didn't buy morrowind cause they didn't have plans for class change. Summerset got announced, and to my now regret, bought it thinking 'surely they'll add class change soon'. How wrong I was. Now they're introducing yet another class and still no class change token announcement. It's disgraceful.
So yes. I want them to add a class change token.4 -
Nerouyn✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭VexingArcanist wrote: »Either it's in the DNA of the game or it's just should not happen.
Ahem....
Classes are not in Elder Scrolls' DNA. ESO just should not have classes.4 -
VexingArcanist✭✭✭✭VexingArcanist wrote: »Either it's in the DNA of the game or it's just should not happen.
Ahem....
Classes are not in Elder Scrolls' DNA. ESO just should not have classes.
Ahem...but they ARE in ESO, so really, what is your point? Water should NOT be wet?2 -
Nerouyn✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭VexingArcanist wrote: »Ahem...but they ARE in ESO, so really, what is your point? Water should NOT be wet?
By your logic ESO certainly shouldn't have classes. Yet it does.
What does that tell us about your logic?1 -
TheShadowScout✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
That is debatable.VexingArcanist wrote: »I can't see any reason for any game to offer a complete class change. Either it's in the DNA of the game or it's just should not happen.
The main reason for class changes would be giving people the option to completely "redo" their characters, without loosing all the other time and work invested (quests, guilds, exploration/collections, riding, crafting research, achievements...)
It would make a good thing for those who already played a dozend alts, and now face the vexation of having to play some more if they want to necromance, or who are greatly annoyed at seeing a new class released that would have made a lot more sense for an old characters backstory...
Sadly, so far the official word on class change from ZOS is still "nope", so until and unless they change their mind, well... S.O.L.
As I always say when this one comes up : I am all for alliance change - If Done RIGHT!Revelzdevelz wrote: »The alliance token should already be in. You let us all raid together so you will make new friends and want to pvp with them. You can make it a quest to go with lore...
And by that I don't mean some token that pops your character to a new alliance, I do indeed mean a whole guild-DLC sized questline with an cloak and dagger (Or since this is ESO, "hood and dagger", perhaps?) spycraft flavor and a "faction loyalty called in question" plot, where you get to make a big choice in the middle - stay loyal to your alliance and prove yourself, or turn your back on them and defect to greener pastures elsewhere...
With the second half (or two thirds, or whatever) of the questline being different depending on your choice - either uncovering the one who actually framed you, mobilize your old and trusted allies to gather support and track down the true conspiracy while dodging the agenrs sent to bring you in; or preparing your escape, dodging the agents sent to arrest you, courting your desired new friends while grabbing some juicy secrets on the way out to sweeten the deal, etc.
Such a story could have a neutral city as "spycraft" focal point (like vienna during the cold war, where spies and agents often went to spy hard between the two sides - for ESO it could be some place between the alliances, a former imperial town declared "free city" after the fall of the empire in northern nibenay, eastern colovia or western skyrim, perhaps, or even an post-anchorite-war isle of stirk...), but otherwise take you all over the old faction regions, possibly revisiting a few one-time-only maps with new mobs... and perhaps even meeting a few familiar faces (come on, wouldn't you love to slam a porticullis shut into Razum-dars face as you hop on a boat bound to morrowind with Naryu?
)
Such a questline could even have special titles depending on what you choose... "[original faction] Loyalist" or "[original faction] Defector"... obviously it would be a one-time only event, thus making serial defectors that change alliance depending on which one is currently top in cyrodil that some people always fear when this topic comes up an impossibility.
And it also might have drawbacks for PvP, like... reduced AP gain for several months, since noone fully trusts a traitor... or maybe having to re-earn all the AP up to your current rank before you start progressing again, representing your efforts to convince your new allies of your trustworthyness... and definitely increased AP rewards if a member of your original faction takes you down, because...
(there could even be a daily "hunt traitor" mission, and defectors from your PvP-characters alliance in cyrodil getting an visual clue while that mission is active...)
Also, this could be a option to add new factions to PvP. Like... have options to not just defect to one of the other two alliances, but also "go rogue" and join a new "Outlaw" faction (...black color and jolly roger flag, perhaps? Would be hostile to -every- other faction in cyrodil, and spawn at some new but unsecured base, thus very susceptible to enemy raids - trials of being an outlaw in the face of organized armies); or an "Imperial Remnant" faction (purple imperial diamond flag, spawning in some ill-secured legion base somewhere, possibly at the nibenay border, and also fighting everyone else, but turning all the "imperial" NPCs in cyrodil non-hostile?), or a "neutral" faction that is "yellow" to everyone (green flag and incapable of capturing locations, spawning at vasrious random merchant camps and such...)
Might be too complicated, but would still be interesting!4 -
White wabbit✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Whatttttttt another thread for something zos said they aren't doing
Where is the person with the flogging a dead horse gif when you need them1 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Zos has clearly stated they are not interested in them at this time. Granted, there are some that are interested in such things but it seems those numbers are not significant for the Zos business people to consider permitting them. It has not seem as though the interest is very significant.1 -
Nerouyn✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭The only valid argument against it is the level of technical challenge ZOS would have in implementing it.
There is no technical challenge.
Race, class, faction would all just be single numbers in a database, eg 1 = Aldmeri Dominion, 2 = Daggerfall Covenant, 3 = Ebonheart Pact. Changing a value in a database is child's play.
Faction storyline progression might require some thought on how to deal with players who haven't finished it yet. Effortless solution - require them to finish before changing faction or require them to start from the beginning.4 -
Cously✭✭✭✭✭
✭Class change tokens are needed, they get money and we get a choice. Only people against it are those who worry too much about other's ppl lives and not their own.
Factions should be eliminated outside PVP. Example: You create your toon, the vestige which also will be non-affiliated with any faction. Choose race, class and a start region: Coldharbour, Morrowind, Summerset, Elsweyr, etc. Then at the end of its respectives tutorials you can choose what faction to work for or even be a freelancer. In the story they don't treat you like part of the army anyways so it won't change anything.
About PVP, you choose a faction to fight for every campaign, in which your account will be locked to play that faction for that campaign for the duration of it. "But I want to play with muh friends", your needs are irrelevant when put in a list of priorities related to the integrity of rules. A game need a very strict set of rules to provide fair play.2 -
XDragonDoomX✭✭✭✭✭White wabbit wrote: »Whatttttttt another thread for something zos said they aren't doing
Where is the person with the flogging a dead horse gif when you need them
"Forums are like a herd of performing elephants with diarrhea.
massive, difficult to redirect, awe-inspiring, entertaining, and a source of
mind-boggling amounts of excrement when you least expect it. ”
(with apologies to Eugene H. Spafford, aka Spaf)
I have the power to please one person per day. Today is not your day.
Tomorrow... Tomorrow does not look good either.
82. Victory laps after killing the dragon with my 1d2 bow is considered in poor taste.
83. My gnome does not like big butts and he cannot lie.
84. Not allowed to talk my fellow inquisitors into buying a 220lb pull crossbow.
85. Not allowed to talk my fellow inquisitors into buying an industrial strength flamethrower.
86. Not allowed to make a superhero with a 99% chance of dodging even after the -10 penalty for a successful called shot.
87. There is no such thing as a dwarven katana.
88. My bard does not get a bonus to perform if she is obviously not wearing anything under her tabard.
89. The elf's name is not Legolam.
** Mr Glenn's Forbidden activities list**2 -
Villaine✭✭✭TheShadowScout wrote: »
That is debatable.VexingArcanist wrote: »I can't see any reason for any game to offer a complete class change. Either it's in the DNA of the game or it's just should not happen.
The main reason for class changes would be giving people the option to completely "redo" their characters, without loosing all the other time and work invested (quests, guilds, exploration/collections, riding, crafting research, achievements...)
It would make a good thing for those who already played a dozend alts, and now face the vexation of having to play some more if they want to necromance, or who are greatly annoyed at seeing a new class released that would have made a lot more sense for an old characters backstory...
Sadly, so far the official word on class change from ZOS is still "nope", so until and unless they change their mind, well... S.O.L.
As I always say when this one comes up : I am all for alliance change - If Done RIGHT!Revelzdevelz wrote: »The alliance token should already be in. You let us all raid together so you will make new friends and want to pvp with them. You can make it a quest to go with lore...
And by that I don't mean some token that pops your character to a new alliance, I do indeed mean a whole guild-DLC sized questline with an cloak and dagger (Or since this is ESO, "hood and dagger", perhaps?) spycraft flavor and a "faction loyalty called in question" plot, where you get to make a big choice in the middle - stay loyal to your alliance and prove yourself, or turn your back on them and defect to greener pastures elsewhere...
With the second half (or two thirds, or whatever) of the questline being different depending on your choice - either uncovering the one who actually framed you, mobilize your old and trusted allies to gather support and track down the true conspiracy while dodging the agenrs sent to bring you in; or preparing your escape, dodging the agents sent to arrest you, courting your desired new friends while grabbing some juicy secrets on the way out to sweeten the deal, etc.
Such a story could have a neutral city as "spycraft" focal point (like vienna during the cold war, where spies and agents often went to spy hard between the two sides - for ESO it could be some place between the alliances, a former imperial town declared "free city" after the fall of the empire in northern nibenay, eastern colovia or western skyrim, perhaps, or even an post-anchorite-war isle of stirk...), but otherwise take you all over the old faction regions, possibly revisiting a few one-time-only maps with new mobs... and perhaps even meeting a few familiar faces (come on, wouldn't you love to slam a porticullis shut into Razum-dars face as you hop on a boat bound to morrowind with Naryu? )
Such a questline could even have special titles depending on what you choose... "[original faction] Loyalist" or "[original faction] Defector"... obviously it would be a one-time only event, thus making serial defectors that change alliance depending on which one is currently top in cyrodil that some people always fear when this topic comes up an impossibility.
And it also might have drawbacks for PvP, like... reduced AP gain for several months, since noone fully trusts a traitor... or maybe having to re-earn all the AP up to your current rank before you start progressing again, representing your efforts to convince your new allies of your trustworthyness... and definitely increased AP rewards if a member of your original faction takes you down, because...
(there could even be a daily "hunt traitor" mission, and defectors from your PvP-characters alliance in cyrodil getting an visual clue while that mission is active...)
Also, this could be a option to add new factions to PvP. Like... have options to not just defect to one of the other two alliances, but also "go rogue" and join a new "Outlaw" faction (...black color and jolly roger flag, perhaps? Would be hostile to -every- other faction in cyrodil, and spawn at some new but unsecured base, thus very susceptible to enemy raids - trials of being an outlaw in the face of organized armies); or an "Imperial Remnant" faction (purple imperial diamond flag, spawning in some ill-secured legion base somewhere, possibly at the nibenay border, and also fighting everyone else, but turning all the "imperial" NPCs in cyrodil non-hostile?), or a "neutral" faction that is "yellow" to everyone (green flag and incapable of capturing locations, spawning at vasrious random merchant camps and such...)
Might be too complicated, but would still be interesting!
Isn't/Wasn't there a similar system on Everquest 2 for class changes? I played only briefly and I am to lazy to look this up online.
Anyway, I am not sure about class changes but using the above sort of storyline for changing alliances would be super fun. I would suggest only allowing each character to do this once every one to three months so it doesn't get out of hand.3 -
Bam_Bam✭✭✭✭✭
✭White wabbit wrote: »Whatttttttt another thread for something zos said they aren't doing
Where is the person with the flogging a dead horse gif when you need them
Wait. It's not dead. HmmmJoined January 2014
PC EU - PvE & BGs & PvP (Vivec)
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Bam Bam Bara0 -
lokulin✭✭✭✭✭The only valid argument against it is the level of technical challenge ZOS would have in implementing it.
There is no technical challenge.
Race, class, faction would all just be single numbers in a database, eg 1 = Aldmeri Dominion, 2 = Daggerfall Covenant, 3 = Ebonheart Pact. Changing a value in a database is child's play.
Faction storyline progression might require some thought on how to deal with players who haven't finished it yet. Effortless solution - require them to finish before changing faction or require them to start from the beginning.
I agree that in theory there should not be any great technical challenge to changing class or alliance but I have seen enough legacy systems in my time to never make the assumption that anything is as simple as it should be. For all we know the data may be massively de-normalized with references to class and alliance spread across many locations. The meaning of whatever determines alliance and class could also be overloaded in non-trivial ways. Or it could just be a few lines of refactoring plus a few lines of new code and a short data migration.I've hidden your signature.0 -
Sarousse✭✭✭✭✭
✭They've stated in the last live that there won't be faction change tokens due to One Tamriel (which is a totally dumb answer).Edited by Sarousse on February 25, 2019 2:40PM1 -
White wabbit✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭XDragonDoomX wrote: »White wabbit wrote: »Whatttttttt another thread for something zos said they aren't doing
Where is the person with the flogging a dead horse gif when you need them
Cheers 0 -
AlnilamE✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Class change tokens are needed, they get money and we get a choice. Only people against it are those who worry too much about other's ppl lives and not their own.
Factions should be eliminated outside PVP. Example: You create your toon, the vestige which also will be non-affiliated with any faction. Choose race, class and a start region: Coldharbour, Morrowind, Summerset, Elsweyr, etc. Then at the end of its respectives tutorials you can choose what faction to work for or even be a freelancer. In the story they don't treat you like part of the army anyways so it won't change anything.
About PVP, you choose a faction to fight for every campaign, in which your account will be locked to play that faction for that campaign for the duration of it. "But I want to play with muh friends", your needs are irrelevant when put in a list of priorities related to the integrity of rules. A game need a very strict set of rules to provide fair play.
Only if they promise to insta-ban anyone who comes to the forums afterwards complaining about class balance by accusing ZOS of only doing it to make money on Class Change Tokens.The only valid argument against it is the level of technical challenge ZOS would have in implementing it.
There is no technical challenge.
Race, class, faction would all just be single numbers in a database, eg 1 = Aldmeri Dominion, 2 = Daggerfall Covenant, 3 = Ebonheart Pact. Changing a value in a database is child's play.
Faction storyline progression might require some thought on how to deal with players who haven't finished it yet. Effortless solution - require them to finish before changing faction or require them to start from the beginning.
Have you changed race on one of your characters that doesn't know any base crafting motifs? What's their default trait stone when you go to a crafting station?The Moot Councillor0 -
There will never be a class change token, it's just not very viable either mechanically or from a balance point of view.
Alliance changes though? Maybe.. though I think there would have to be some heavy limits on its usage to prevent meta-pvpers from changing alliances at the drop of a hat and causing severely lopsided pvp balance.0 -
TheShadowScout✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
Flogging dead horses is only a bad thing if it doesn't work!White wabbit wrote: »Where is the person with the flogging a dead horse gif when you need them
...and in fantasy worlds, well...
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