Maintenance for the week of April 6:
• PC/Mac: No maintenance – April 6
• PC/Mac: No maintenance – April 6
Literally no one is happy with Altmer spell recharge atm, why are they so stubborn?
-
BattleAxe✭✭✭✭✭MLGProPlayer wrote: »They have similar damage when you normalize sustain. In the exact same set up, Altmer will out gun Breton every single time. Literally grade school math.
You're talking about a hypothetical scenario that does not exist in the game (you can not do any endgame content on an Altmer without gold food/absorb glyphs). Literally grade school logic.
On your characters on live now what enchants are you running? How were people doing endgame content before gold food or witchmothers for that matter if it’s so important?
0 -
Sanguinor2✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭On your characters on live now what enchants are you running? How were people doing endgame content before gold food or witchmothers for that matter if it’s so important?
On live you are either running a magicka drain glyph or witchmothers brew/gold food or both depending on how good your Group support is and also depending on content you are doing (Cloudrest+1/2/3 involving the fire boss for example give you a Sustain buff if you have the right defensive cp so you can get away with less Sustain). That also depends on class, magicka templar not using solar barrage or magicka nightblade for example have an easier time sustaining than a magicka sorc does (since dark exchanges cast time makes it very undesirable in pve).
As for the 2nd part, before witchmothers or other health, mainstat regen and max mainstat food existed everyone had infinite Sustain because cp and classes werent nerfed yet aka 15% cost reduction from cp + 25% recovery, more cost reduction from armor passives and much much much stronger class Sustain tools, using banner of might on a dk for example would restore over 3 times more magicka than it restores now so yeah unless you were actively trying even magdk had infinite Sustain in pve.Politeness is respecting others.
Courage is doing what is fair.
Modesty is speaking of oneself without vanity.
Self control is keeping calm even when anger rises.
Sincerity is expressing oneself without concealing ones thoughts.
Honor is keeping ones word.3 -
BattleAxe✭✭✭✭✭Sanguinor2 wrote: »On your characters on live now what enchants are you running? How were people doing endgame content before gold food or witchmothers for that matter if it’s so important?
On live you are either running a magicka drain glyph or witchmothers brew/gold food or both depending on how good your Group support is and also depending on content you are doing (Cloudrest+1/2/3 involving the fire boss for example give you a Sustain buff if you have the right defensive cp so you can get away with less Sustain). That also depends on class, magicka templar not using solar barrage or magicka nightblade for example have an easier time sustaining than a magicka sorc does (since dark exchanges cast time makes it very undesirable in pve).
As for the 2nd part, before witchmothers or other health, mainstat regen and max mainstat food existed everyone had infinite Sustain because cp and classes werent nerfed yet aka 15% cost reduction from cp + 25% recovery, more cost reduction from armor passives and much much much stronger class Sustain tools, using banner of might on a dk for example would restore over 3 times more magicka than it restores now so yeah unless you were actively trying even magdk had infinite Sustain in pve.
Firstly I didn’t ask about food merely what enchant. 2nd allows me to make the point people were able to adapt to sustain changes and continue to complete endgame content. People will do so with these changes as well. Races are balanced better now then on live what more do people want. Let me try asking this. If the race changes altmer is receiving went to say nord do you think anyone would really be complaining understanding altmer would stay pretty much the same passives as on liveEdited by BattleAxe on February 24, 2019 4:50AM0 -
BattleAxe✭✭✭✭✭Point is altmer on live is considered a meta race above pretty much every other race on a mag dps and that’s fine. Now when altmer isn’t a hands down one of the best mag dps all of a sudden there is an outrage. Do you see the problem and why this altmer rage isn’t being taken seriously4
-
JazzyNova✭✭✭✭SidewalkChalk5 wrote: »It is a lie and misrepresentation that Altmer complaints are primarily damage related. SD vs sustain is a fair trade-off. Altmer get more burst, Breton get more sustain. Altmer kill trash and weaker enemies faster while Breton gets the ease of infinite sustain in longer fights. Breton damage catches up and surpasses Altmer around the 1-2 minute mark (varying with skill cost), making Altmer superior in lower intensity content (overland, normal dungeons, easy vets), and Breton superior in endgame content (vet DLC's, trials). This is all fair and good. That part is balanced "close enough".
The major outstanding problem for Altmer is that Breton and Dunmer both have 100% uptime on universal utility passives, while Altmer got shafted with inferior conditional and low uptime passives. And there are still major balance problems with Argonian, Bosmer, Orc/Redguard, and arguably Khajiit too.
The bottom line is that this patch in its current condition is unfit for live servers, and charging people for a single race change during this period is deeply unethical business behavior.
Really couldn't have said this better myself.2 -
BattleAxe✭✭✭✭✭MLGProPlayer wrote: »Point is altmer on live is considered a meta race above pretty much every other race on a mag dps and that’s fine.
It's not, and you need to stop parroting that.
Every time you say it, it reinfoces the fact that either:
1. You have no idea what you're talking about because you don't actually run endgame content
2. You're trolling
Please reread wut I said before you attack I said pretty much above every other race. Ik your gonna say dunmer is BiS on live which is funny I see more high elves then dunmer on live but ok I’m just a troll and I according to you don’t do endgame content. I’m parroting information need I copy and paste just about everyone of your replies on any of the threads about altmers. Talk about parroting2 -
Sanguinor2✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
Firstly I didn’t ask about food merely what enchant. 2nd allows me to make the point people were able to adapt to sustain changes and continue to complete endgame content. People will do so with these changes as well. Races are balanced better now then on live what more do people want. Let me try asking this. If the race changes altmer is receiving went to say nord do you think anyone would really be complaining understanding altmer would stay pretty much the same passives as on live
Im aware that you didnt ask about food but it is not something you can overlook if you want to know about Sustain on live Server.
And yes People will Always adapt, atleast the experienced, strong Groups that can clear every Content and are farming the hardmodes of Trials other People dispair at in 9 minutes and can potentially make milions by selling carry runs and thus not even needing full Groups to clear stuff. But just because some People have ability to adapt to near any change doesnt make near any change a good change. (And regarding adapting to Sustain nerfs in morrowind, it was a huge source of unbalance because nightblades still having strong Sustain made them reign surpreme in pve for years, so yeah just because People adapted doesnt mean balance was achieved)
And if the current Altmer race changes went to Nord you can be sure that there would be many People complaining if we go with your example. In Addition this would place Altmer in the weird Situation where it would be the only race with % bonuses across the board. This is also you not considering that Altmer are only complaining About one certain passive that is very underwhelming and that the other 2 passives are really strong. Most Altmer are not against the Change as a whole but simply against a, for most, useless passive, which has a Stamina return that only helps in very limited Content outside of pvp and that has secondary part that is so insignificant that most People completely forget it even exists.
And Wrathstone doesnt have the best balance either, if you look onto the stam side of Things, orc reigns surpreme in whatever Content you are doing, with unmatched dps and Utility together with a good amount of max stats, Argonians suffered, Nords are relegated to tank only or niche pvp race, dunmer as hybrid race is for whatever reason stronger than pure Stamina races redguard, bosmer, imperial.
For magicka you now have a Trinity with dunmer, altmer and Breton (alltho there is no reason at all to even consider Picking a dunmer for pve when altmer has exactly the same bonuses only in a minimal amount stronger, so basically only 2 magicka races, 1 more dps oriented 1 more Sustain oriented exactly as on live.
Healers are shoehorned into Breton with it being the vastly superior choice compared to anything else, while also being a top dps race. On live you could Play altmer, Breton and argonian healer without gimping yourself btw.
The only Thing that got more interesting for me is that you have more tanking choices now, with nord providing a Little more Group support with the ult regen, Imperial having high stats with a resource restore and cost reduction on everything and argonian still being a decent choice with the Sustain the potion passive offers, alltho their tanking suffered as their healing and dps did. This tanking part is also ignoring that in tanking having raw stats and power from passives matters much less than on any other roles, if you are experienced enough you can easily do top tanking on any race, for example a really good tank is playing a khajit dk, while I am tanking on a dunmer dk.Politeness is respecting others.
Courage is doing what is fair.
Modesty is speaking of oneself without vanity.
Self control is keeping calm even when anger rises.
Sincerity is expressing oneself without concealing ones thoughts.
Honor is keeping ones word.2 -
Sanguinor2✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Point is altmer on live is considered a meta race above pretty much every other race on a mag dps and that’s fine. Now when altmer isn’t a hands down one of the best mag dps all of a sudden there is an outrage. Do you see the problem and why this altmer rage isn’t being taken seriously
I know you dont seem to like it but its a very simple fact that if you want to have maximum dps potential on mag dunmer is the strongest race on live (and has been since clockwork City so since late 2017, if you so wish I can go into more detail for you).
However the reason you might see more Altmer than Dunmer might be A: Altmer offering Sustain while still maintaining a good amount of dps that is not at all far behind Dunmer.
B: Most Players that have played other elder scrolls game go into character creator and see Altmer and instantly assume Altmer with being a very strong choice for magicka (which again it is, just not the strongest for endgame raiding).
C: There are also People doing RP in RPGs (I know strange)
D : in most Fantasy Settings you can observe Elfs being very proficient at magical feats, so this might be another reason why People that have not come into contact with other elder scrolls games choose a high elf when creating a mage.
E: in pvp Altmer is the better choice for 4 out of 5 magicka classes because only a magdk will use the flame dmg % to its full potential since you are not running the same Setups you would be running in pve.
And again, in 4.3.0 Altmer wasnt the "Hands down" best mag dps parses were About as close as they are now so I cant understand the double Standard People have going on, that when Altmer is slightly ahead of Breton it must be wrong, but when Breton is slightly ahead of Altmer, Altmer are just immature whiners because they didnt get their way.
Edit: Another reason there is more Altmer than Dunmer from what you are seeing (Im not saying you are wrong but neither of us has any actual numbers) is that only a very small part of the Eso community even does endgame raiding.
Edited by Sanguinor2 on February 24, 2019 5:31AMPoliteness is respecting others.
Courage is doing what is fair.
Modesty is speaking of oneself without vanity.
Self control is keeping calm even when anger rises.
Sincerity is expressing oneself without concealing ones thoughts.
Honor is keeping ones word.1 -
MLGProPlayer✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭MLGProPlayer wrote: »Point is altmer on live is considered a meta race above pretty much every other race on a mag dps and that’s fine.
It's not, and you need to stop parroting that.
Every time you say it, it reinfoces the fact that either:
1. You have no idea what you're talking about because you don't actually run endgame content
2. You're trolling
Please reread wut I said before you attack I said pretty much above every other race. Ik your gonna say dunmer is BiS on live which is funny I see more high elves then dunmer on live but ok I’m just a troll and I according to you don’t do endgame content. I’m parroting information need I copy and paste just about everyone of your replies on any of the threads about altmers. Talk about parroting
What you see more of (and there is no way to objectively quantify "what you see") doesn't determine BiS. BiS is determined through statistical analysis and testing.Edited by MLGProPlayer on February 24, 2019 5:36AM1 -
BattleAxe✭✭✭✭✭Sanguinor2 wrote: »
Firstly I didn’t ask about food merely what enchant. 2nd allows me to make the point people were able to adapt to sustain changes and continue to complete endgame content. People will do so with these changes as well. Races are balanced better now then on live what more do people want. Let me try asking this. If the race changes altmer is receiving went to say nord do you think anyone would really be complaining understanding altmer would stay pretty much the same passives as on live
Im aware that you didnt ask about food but it is not something you can overlook if you want to know about Sustain on live Server.
And yes People will Always adapt, atleast the experienced, strong Groups that can clear every Content and are farming the hardmodes of Trials other People dispair at in 9 minutes and can potentially make milions by selling carry runs and thus not even needing full Groups to clear stuff. But just because some People have ability to adapt to near any change doesnt make near any change a good change. (And regarding adapting to Sustain nerfs in morrowind, it was a huge source of unbalance because nightblades still having strong Sustain made them reign surpreme in pve for years, so yeah just because People adapted doesnt mean balance was achieved)
And if the current Altmer race changes went to Nord you can be sure that there would be many People complaining if we go with your example. In Addition this would place Altmer in the weird Situation where it would be the only race with % bonuses across the board. This is also you not considering that Altmer are only complaining About one certain passive that is very underwhelming and that the other 2 passives are really strong. Most Altmer are not against the Change as a whole but simply against a, for most, useless passive, which has a Stamina return that only helps in very limited Content outside of pvp and that has secondary part that is so insignificant that most People completely forget it even exists.
And Wrathstone doesnt have the best balance either, if you look onto the stam side of Things, orc reigns surpreme in whatever Content you are doing, with unmatched dps and Utility together with a good amount of max stats, Argonians suffered, Nords are relegated to tank only or niche pvp race, dunmer as hybrid race is for whatever reason stronger than pure Stamina races redguard, bosmer, imperial.
For magicka you now have a Trinity with dunmer, altmer and Breton (alltho there is no reason at all to even consider Picking a dunmer for pve when altmer has exactly the same bonuses only in a minimal amount stronger, so basically only 2 magicka races, 1 more dps oriented 1 more Sustain oriented exactly as on live.
Healers are shoehorned into Breton with it being the vastly superior choice compared to anything else, while also being a top dps race. On live you could Play altmer, Breton and argonian healer without gimping yourself btw.
The only Thing that got more interesting for me is that you have more tanking choices now, with nord providing a Little more Group support with the ult regen, Imperial having high stats with a resource restore and cost reduction on everything and argonian still being a decent choice with the Sustain the potion passive offers, alltho their tanking suffered as their healing and dps did. This tanking part is also ignoring that in tanking having raw stats and power from passives matters much less than on any other roles, if you are experienced enough you can easily do top tanking on any race, for example a really good tank is playing a khajit dk, while I am tanking on a dunmer dk.
Thank you finally at least someone who is looking at everything and not just focusing on one thing.0 -
Seraphayel✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I'm so glad when 4.3.4 will be the live version and we can move on from this topic. It's becoming a real drag down and people must adapt or get used to the changes eventually so putting resources elsewhere makes more sense than focusing on this.Edited by Seraphayel on February 24, 2019 8:12AMPS5EUAldmeri Dominion- Khajiit Arcanist -4 -
Seraphayel✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I didn't throw a two week long temper tantrum because of nothing.
Edited by Seraphayel on February 24, 2019 9:24AMPS5EUAldmeri Dominion- Khajiit Arcanist -0 -
pieratsos✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭MLGProPlayer wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »Point is altmer on live is considered a meta race above pretty much every other race on a mag dps and that’s fine.
It's not, and you need to stop parroting that.
Every time you say it, it reinfoces the fact that either:
1. You have no idea what you're talking about because you don't actually run endgame content
2. You're trolling
Please reread wut I said before you attack I said pretty much above every other race. Ik your gonna say dunmer is BiS on live which is funny I see more high elves then dunmer on live but ok I’m just a troll and I according to you don’t do endgame content. I’m parroting information need I copy and paste just about everyone of your replies on any of the threads about altmers. Talk about parroting
What you see more of (and there is no way to objectively quantify "what you see") doesn't determine BiS. BiS is determined through statistical analysis and testing.
Statistical analysis and testing on PTS show altmer ahead of Breton. So what is ur point?6 -
Bigevilpeter✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭MLGProPlayer wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »Point is altmer on live is considered a meta race above pretty much every other race on a mag dps and that’s fine.
It's not, and you need to stop parroting that.
Every time you say it, it reinfoces the fact that either:
1. You have no idea what you're talking about because you don't actually run endgame content
2. You're trolling
Please reread wut I said before you attack I said pretty much above every other race. Ik your gonna say dunmer is BiS on live which is funny I see more high elves then dunmer on live but ok I’m just a troll and I according to you don’t do endgame content. I’m parroting information need I copy and paste just about everyone of your replies on any of the threads about altmers. Talk about parroting
What you see more of (and there is no way to objectively quantify "what you see") doesn't determine BiS. BiS is determined through statistical analysis and testing.
Statistical analysis and testing on PTS show altmer ahead of Breton. So what is ur point?
On perfect sustain dummy parse, not in real situations4 -
Plajhengenuin✭✭✭Just give altmer 1k health and 500 health regen on class skill activation instead stamina regen. It will mirror orc passive and would be more useful. Everybody needs health.3 -
pieratsos✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Bigevilpeter wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »Point is altmer on live is considered a meta race above pretty much every other race on a mag dps and that’s fine.
It's not, and you need to stop parroting that.
Every time you say it, it reinfoces the fact that either:
1. You have no idea what you're talking about because you don't actually run endgame content
2. You're trolling
Please reread wut I said before you attack I said pretty much above every other race. Ik your gonna say dunmer is BiS on live which is funny I see more high elves then dunmer on live but ok I’m just a troll and I according to you don’t do endgame content. I’m parroting information need I copy and paste just about everyone of your replies on any of the threads about altmers. Talk about parroting
What you see more of (and there is no way to objectively quantify "what you see") doesn't determine BiS. BiS is determined through statistical analysis and testing.
Statistical analysis and testing on PTS show altmer ahead of Breton. So what is ur point?
On perfect sustain dummy parse, not in real situations
Wrong. They were sacrificing their dmg on altmer to make up for the lack of sustain and simulate an end game situation and still pulled ahead. On a perfect sustain dummy parse its not even a contest. So again what is this all about?
Also you will have to define real situations. Is it end game PVE trials for score push, is it end game trials with semi decent group, is it vMA, is it dungeons, is it PVP? What exactly is the real situation?Edited by pieratsos on February 24, 2019 11:22AM2 -
Bigevilpeter✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Bigevilpeter wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »Point is altmer on live is considered a meta race above pretty much every other race on a mag dps and that’s fine.
It's not, and you need to stop parroting that.
Every time you say it, it reinfoces the fact that either:
1. You have no idea what you're talking about because you don't actually run endgame content
2. You're trolling
Please reread wut I said before you attack I said pretty much above every other race. Ik your gonna say dunmer is BiS on live which is funny I see more high elves then dunmer on live but ok I’m just a troll and I according to you don’t do endgame content. I’m parroting information need I copy and paste just about everyone of your replies on any of the threads about altmers. Talk about parroting
What you see more of (and there is no way to objectively quantify "what you see") doesn't determine BiS. BiS is determined through statistical analysis and testing.
Statistical analysis and testing on PTS show altmer ahead of Breton. So what is ur point?
On perfect sustain dummy parse, not in real situations
Wrong. They were sacrificing their dmg on altmer to make up for the lack of sustain and simulate an end game situation and still pulled ahead. On a perfect sustain dummy parse its not even a contest. So again what is this all about?
Also you will have to define real situations. Is it end game PVE trials for score push, is it end game trials with semi decent group, is it vMA, is it dungeons, is it PVP? What exactly is the real situation?
You can't really test real situation on a dummy, in real situations you have to cast shields, recast aoes when bosses move, magick draining mechanics etc.
Dummy parses are so misleading2 -
pieratsos✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Bigevilpeter wrote: »Bigevilpeter wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »Point is altmer on live is considered a meta race above pretty much every other race on a mag dps and that’s fine.
It's not, and you need to stop parroting that.
Every time you say it, it reinfoces the fact that either:
1. You have no idea what you're talking about because you don't actually run endgame content
2. You're trolling
Please reread wut I said before you attack I said pretty much above every other race. Ik your gonna say dunmer is BiS on live which is funny I see more high elves then dunmer on live but ok I’m just a troll and I according to you don’t do endgame content. I’m parroting information need I copy and paste just about everyone of your replies on any of the threads about altmers. Talk about parroting
What you see more of (and there is no way to objectively quantify "what you see") doesn't determine BiS. BiS is determined through statistical analysis and testing.
Statistical analysis and testing on PTS show altmer ahead of Breton. So what is ur point?
On perfect sustain dummy parse, not in real situations
Wrong. They were sacrificing their dmg on altmer to make up for the lack of sustain and simulate an end game situation and still pulled ahead. On a perfect sustain dummy parse its not even a contest. So again what is this all about?
Also you will have to define real situations. Is it end game PVE trials for score push, is it end game trials with semi decent group, is it vMA, is it dungeons, is it PVP? What exactly is the real situation?
You can't really test real situation on a dummy, in real situations you have to cast shields, recast aoes when bosses move, magick draining mechanics etc.
Dummy parses are so misleading
Right, its a dynamic situation that can go either way. So again, what is this all about ?3 -
HuawaSepp✭✭✭Bigevilpeter wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »Point is altmer on live is considered a meta race above pretty much every other race on a mag dps and that’s fine.
It's not, and you need to stop parroting that.
Every time you say it, it reinfoces the fact that either:
1. You have no idea what you're talking about because you don't actually run endgame content
2. You're trolling
Please reread wut I said before you attack I said pretty much above every other race. Ik your gonna say dunmer is BiS on live which is funny I see more high elves then dunmer on live but ok I’m just a troll and I according to you don’t do endgame content. I’m parroting information need I copy and paste just about everyone of your replies on any of the threads about altmers. Talk about parroting
What you see more of (and there is no way to objectively quantify "what you see") doesn't determine BiS. BiS is determined through statistical analysis and testing.
Statistical analysis and testing on PTS show altmer ahead of Breton. So what is ur point?
On perfect sustain dummy parse, not in real situations
Wrong. They were sacrificing their dmg on altmer to make up for the lack of sustain
No. Do you have a source for that?
I mean this 'lack of sustain'.
I can't find a comparison between dps values and reg/drain values.PTS-EU0 -
Uryel✭✭✭✭✭
✭Unfortunately, if ZOS has decided to do something they will do it regardless of how illogical it may be or how much the community doesn't want it. ZOS is incredibly stubborn, and it pushes players away.
And that is pretty bad business practice.
They provide a service we pay for. So, the contract, or mutual agreement, is "we provide X, you pay Y". They are, of course, free to change X into Z. We are, of course, free to not want Z and stop paying Y.
Good business practice is to try making money, which means you try to provide something people want. Whether it is X or Z, it doesn't really matter. Things change, some people may not be happy with them, mutual agrerement ends, that's life and business. But when many customers tell you "X was alot better than Z, I have no interest in Z at all", good practice would be to reconsider and either back down or try to find some middle ground. Else, you're just saying "who cares, I don't need your money anyway".
Still, I believe they don't understand that. I mean ,we're talking about the parent company of the guys who managed to make not 1 bad Fallout game, not 2 bad Fallout games, but 3 bad Fallout games, each subesquent one worse than the previous one.
Going wrong with fallout is not something easy, and they managed to do it 3 times, each time more spectacularly than the previous one. Fallout 76 doesn't even deserve the name, as it has nothing that a good Fallout game should have. But same scenario at play here : they wanted to do it that way, so they did, and didn't listen to the worries of their customers. The end result is poor sales, very low appreciation by the community, and most likely the death of the whole Fallout franchise in the long run.
To put it shortly, entitlement isn't a problem with the players only. ZOS think they know best what we want and doesn't even bother taking our words into account. And then, if their wallet takes a hit, they'll complain but won't even question why. We, the players, are mean to them. They did nothing wrong.
And that's how wed end up with Altmers regerenating their lowest ressource pool or, and that one annoys me way more as I play a Bosmer main, Bosmers getting a racial trait that has no use whatsoever in PvE all the while forcefully ripping their awesome stealth bonus from them, effectively breaking characters that were built around it for years.Edited by Uryel on February 24, 2019 8:49PM2 -
Bigevilpeter✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Bigevilpeter wrote: »Bigevilpeter wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »Point is altmer on live is considered a meta race above pretty much every other race on a mag dps and that’s fine.
It's not, and you need to stop parroting that.
Every time you say it, it reinfoces the fact that either:
1. You have no idea what you're talking about because you don't actually run endgame content
2. You're trolling
Please reread wut I said before you attack I said pretty much above every other race. Ik your gonna say dunmer is BiS on live which is funny I see more high elves then dunmer on live but ok I’m just a troll and I according to you don’t do endgame content. I’m parroting information need I copy and paste just about everyone of your replies on any of the threads about altmers. Talk about parroting
What you see more of (and there is no way to objectively quantify "what you see") doesn't determine BiS. BiS is determined through statistical analysis and testing.
Statistical analysis and testing on PTS show altmer ahead of Breton. So what is ur point?
On perfect sustain dummy parse, not in real situations
Wrong. They were sacrificing their dmg on altmer to make up for the lack of sustain and simulate an end game situation and still pulled ahead. On a perfect sustain dummy parse its not even a contest. So again what is this all about?
Also you will have to define real situations. Is it end game PVE trials for score push, is it end game trials with semi decent group, is it vMA, is it dungeons, is it PVP? What exactly is the real situation?
You can't really test real situation on a dummy, in real situations you have to cast shields, recast aoes when bosses move, magick draining mechanics etc.
Dummy parses are so misleading
Right, its a dynamic situation that can go either way. So again, what is this all about ?
What I'm saying is that even though on a perfect parse Altmer will outdps Breton, in real situations resources are drained so much faster, so bretons will preform so much better on longer fights with lots of variables, Altmers will only perform better on perfect situtations which are not very common on end game content
3 -
pieratsos✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Bigevilpeter wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »Point is altmer on live is considered a meta race above pretty much every other race on a mag dps and that’s fine.
It's not, and you need to stop parroting that.
Every time you say it, it reinfoces the fact that either:
1. You have no idea what you're talking about because you don't actually run endgame content
2. You're trolling
Please reread wut I said before you attack I said pretty much above every other race. Ik your gonna say dunmer is BiS on live which is funny I see more high elves then dunmer on live but ok I’m just a troll and I according to you don’t do endgame content. I’m parroting information need I copy and paste just about everyone of your replies on any of the threads about altmers. Talk about parroting
What you see more of (and there is no way to objectively quantify "what you see") doesn't determine BiS. BiS is determined through statistical analysis and testing.
Statistical analysis and testing on PTS show altmer ahead of Breton. So what is ur point?
On perfect sustain dummy parse, not in real situations
Wrong. They were sacrificing their dmg on altmer to make up for the lack of sustain
No. Do you have a source for that?
I mean this 'lack of sustain'.
I can't find a comparison between dps values and reg/drain values.
You do realise that the only way Bretons can compete with altmer is when altmers use absorb magic enchants or gold food right? Aka sacrificing their dmg to get sustain. Your source is literally everywhere in the PTS. But seriously u need a source for that? Its common sense by just looking at their passives. Breton isnt going to magically make up for the loss of spell dmg and become competitive unless altmers give up their dmg.Edited by pieratsos on February 24, 2019 1:17PM2 -
pieratsos✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Bigevilpeter wrote: »Bigevilpeter wrote: »Bigevilpeter wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »Point is altmer on live is considered a meta race above pretty much every other race on a mag dps and that’s fine.
It's not, and you need to stop parroting that.
Every time you say it, it reinfoces the fact that either:
1. You have no idea what you're talking about because you don't actually run endgame content
2. You're trolling
Please reread wut I said before you attack I said pretty much above every other race. Ik your gonna say dunmer is BiS on live which is funny I see more high elves then dunmer on live but ok I’m just a troll and I according to you don’t do endgame content. I’m parroting information need I copy and paste just about everyone of your replies on any of the threads about altmers. Talk about parroting
What you see more of (and there is no way to objectively quantify "what you see") doesn't determine BiS. BiS is determined through statistical analysis and testing.
Statistical analysis and testing on PTS show altmer ahead of Breton. So what is ur point?
On perfect sustain dummy parse, not in real situations
Wrong. They were sacrificing their dmg on altmer to make up for the lack of sustain and simulate an end game situation and still pulled ahead. On a perfect sustain dummy parse its not even a contest. So again what is this all about?
Also you will have to define real situations. Is it end game PVE trials for score push, is it end game trials with semi decent group, is it vMA, is it dungeons, is it PVP? What exactly is the real situation?
You can't really test real situation on a dummy, in real situations you have to cast shields, recast aoes when bosses move, magick draining mechanics etc.
Dummy parses are so misleading
Right, its a dynamic situation that can go either way. So again, what is this all about ?
What I'm saying is that even though on a perfect parse Altmer will outdps Breton, in real situations resources are drained so much faster, so bretons will preform so much better on longer fights with lots of variables, Altmers will only perform better on perfect situtations which are not very common on end game content
Ah now i get it. So the only real situations are those that favor breton. Group support in end game content, shorter burstier fights or whatever else arent real situations. Not biased at all. You know what is the whole point of dynamic situations with lots of variables? That you cant just as easily predict them. You want to discredit dummy parses because they are controlled environments that dont represent real dynamic fights with lots of variables but at the same time you want to picture those real dynamic fights with lots of variables as controlled environments that only favor breton.
Here is the thing. You are right that parses dont represent actual fights. They are just a general guideline of race performance in this case. Actual fights can be dynamic situations with lots of variables that you cant predict and making it very hard to judge which race is going to be the best at any given situation. It can go either way. So unless the only fights that exist in the game are 3+ minute fight of buttons smashing with no group support then no you cant just say that bretons will perform so much better.Edited by pieratsos on February 24, 2019 1:38PM2 -
HuawaSepp✭✭✭Bigevilpeter wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »Point is altmer on live is considered a meta race above pretty much every other race on a mag dps and that’s fine.
It's not, and you need to stop parroting that.
Every time you say it, it reinfoces the fact that either:
1. You have no idea what you're talking about because you don't actually run endgame content
2. You're trolling
Please reread wut I said before you attack I said pretty much above every other race. Ik your gonna say dunmer is BiS on live which is funny I see more high elves then dunmer on live but ok I’m just a troll and I according to you don’t do endgame content. I’m parroting information need I copy and paste just about everyone of your replies on any of the threads about altmers. Talk about parroting
What you see more of (and there is no way to objectively quantify "what you see") doesn't determine BiS. BiS is determined through statistical analysis and testing.
Statistical analysis and testing on PTS show altmer ahead of Breton. So what is ur point?
On perfect sustain dummy parse, not in real situations
Wrong. They were sacrificing their dmg on altmer to make up for the lack of sustain
No. Do you have a source for that?
I mean this 'lack of sustain'.
I can't find a comparison between dps values and reg/drain values.
You do realise that the only way Bretons can compete with altmer is when altmers use absorb magic enchants or gold food right? Aka sacrificing their dmg to get sustain. Your source is literally everywhere in the PTS. But seriously u need a source for that? Its common sense by just looking at their passives. Breton isnt going to magically make up for the loss of spell dmg and become competitive unless altmers give up their dmg.
Yeah right. Altmers give up their dmg to parse close to breton.
The best case would be to trade the 258 SD for 258 reg.
And now you wanna tell me that an altmer with 2000 magicka and 258 reg will parse higher than a breton with 2000 magicka and 100 reg + 7% cost reduction, raid buffed on a 6M dummy where both have near infinite sustain.
Let just look at the passives.
Altmer:
258 reg (*1,8 => highest possible I think and in favor of altmer here) = 464 reg
Breton:
100 reg (*1,8) = 180 reg
7% cost reduction =>
average cost skill Elemental Weapon (2858 Magicka) *7/100 = 200.06 reg/sec = 400.12 reg
400.12*0.95 (bad weaving) = 380.114 reg
160 reg + 380 reg = 560 reg
I may believe much, but an altmer will never beat a breton in a 6M dummy solo parse.Edited by HuawaSepp on February 24, 2019 2:06PMPTS-EU2 -
Minno✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭When you don't like the change, declare the data showing otherwise as misinterpreted misinformation lol.Minno - DC - Forum-plar Extraordinaire
- Guild-lead for MV
- Filthy Casual2 -
Sanguinor2✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭And once again we can observe common misconceptions about Altmers place in pve on live and pts 4.3.0.
First of all there is no Status quo as strongest mag dps race to preserve between live and pts, since Altmer never was the strongest mag dps race since atleast Clockwork City (Again if you so wish I can go into more detail with that and explain why Dunmer was more favoured than Altmer). Actually what Altmer did on live was trade some dps for some Sustain while still being not too far behind.
Second, if you look at parses from 4.3.0 you will see that Altmer is only ahead by a tiny margin compared to Breton if at all, but apparently a 300 dps lead of Altmer is completely unbalanced while Breton having the same is the most perfect balance one can achieve. (The true outlier in 4.3.0 was Khajit with somewhat inconsistent results because of crit, but the highest dps potential since in 100mil HP fights crit rates will normalize compared to a 3 or 6 mil dps test)
Third, the strong, experienced Groups will Always adapt. I myself will adapt because Im part of a good Group with very good Group support and have sufficient experience in all endgame Content so I dont have to use shields as often, while also having the dps to clear a 100mil HP fights in 9 minutes. What you fail to realize when you say that just because the top 0.1% can adapt to it, the Change is a good one is that that is really not true. Altmer players starting out with vet Trials will have a harder time since they lack strong Group support aswell as experience, while also not having the raw dps required to shorten the fights by a considerable margin.
Remember other changes People adapted to that were unbalanced? I remember quite a few. You should remember quite a few aswell, especially if you PvP.
And speaking of adapting to nerfs, remember how nightblade has been the dps king since basically morrowind, with very short interruptions? Good Balance tho since People adapted to Sustain nerfs
.
Politeness is respecting others.
Courage is doing what is fair.
Modesty is speaking of oneself without vanity.
Self control is keeping calm even when anger rises.
Sincerity is expressing oneself without concealing ones thoughts.
Honor is keeping ones word.4 -
BattleAxe✭✭✭✭✭dunmer more favored then altmer and with this patch Breton more favored then altmer. That argument is simplified to this.
Pre wrathstone dmg>sustain post wrathstone sustain>dmg nothing else has really changed besides racial passives. If dunmer is supposedly the more favored pre wrathstone becuz of dmg>sustain, besides racial passives what changed to make it post wrathstone, sustain>dmg.1 -
Sanguinor2✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭dunmer more favored then altmer and with this patch Breton more favored then altmer. That argument is simplified to this.
Pre wrathstone dmg>sustain post wrathstone sustain>dmg nothing else has really changed besides racial passives. If dunmer is supposedly the more favored pre wrathstone becuz of dmg>sustain, besides racial passives what changed to make it post wrathstone, sustain>dmg.
Actually what changed compared to live is that Bretons Sustain Advantage is big enough to drop other Sustain Tools while Altmer Sustain Advantage was not big enough to do so, so its not as easy as you are making it out to be. Altmer was still running the same Sustain Tools outside of racials that Dunmer was running, while on pts Breton doesnt have to do so, that is what changed, you are just trying to simplify it and not looking at the complete picture.Politeness is respecting others.
Courage is doing what is fair.
Modesty is speaking of oneself without vanity.
Self control is keeping calm even when anger rises.
Sincerity is expressing oneself without concealing ones thoughts.
Honor is keeping ones word.4 -
MLGProPlayer✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭dunmer more favored then altmer and with this patch Breton more favored then altmer. That argument is simplified to this.
Pre wrathstone dmg>sustain post wrathstone sustain>dmg nothing else has really changed besides racial passives. If dunmer is supposedly the more favored pre wrathstone becuz of dmg>sustain, besides racial passives what changed to make it post wrathstone, sustain>dmg.
Altmer does not provide a significant damage boost over Breton. That's what changed.
Also, on live, Altmer still had to build for sustain (both races needed gold food/absorb glyph). Altmer only had ~100 magicka regen on Dunmer. That's not nearly enough to avoid building for sustain. There was no scenario in which Altmer could outparse Dunmer.Edited by MLGProPlayer on February 24, 2019 7:04PM1
