Maintenance for the week of April 6:
• PC/Mac: No maintenance – April 6
• PC/Mac: No maintenance – April 6
Literally no one is happy with Altmer spell recharge atm, why are they so stubborn?
-
pieratsos✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Finedaible wrote: »No one is happy with this PTS except Orc mains and maybe Breton mains, or delusional ZoS fanboys who think their dedication will garner them some special attention from the company. I've never experienced such denial in a player community before, the optimism from these vocal few is on the level of fanaticism.
Calling people attention seekers and fanatics because they have a different opinion. Wow.
Edited by pieratsos on February 22, 2019 8:55PM5 -
BattleAxe✭✭✭✭✭Finedaible wrote: »No one is happy with this PTS except Orc mains and maybe Breton mains, or delusional ZoS fanboys who think their dedication will garner them some special attention from the company. I've never experienced such denial in a player community before, the optimism from these vocal few is on the level of fanaticism.
Delusional ZoS fan boys really? Do you happen to know what theory crafting is? This delusional debate about how bad altmer is can be in the running for best new meme of 2019.
Let’s compare this race to altmer to show altmer is inferior
Person comes disproves the above
Well you didn’t compare it this way (aka shifting the rules)
I gain nothing and lose nothing in this debate. I expect no special treatment from ZoS which to me it seems players who main altmers want special treatment. But I’m a delusional fan boy because I didn’t jump on the bandwagon claiming altmers are now inferior.Edited by BattleAxe on February 22, 2019 10:15PM5 -
Zedrian✭✭✭My team on PS4 are considering changing all Magicka builds to Breton or Khajit 100% racial change or about 6000 crowns per account. We also have stam toons to change! 3 or 6 months later they may change Bretons passives or all racial passives but no free tokens. It only takes to convince once to do it again. Easy moneyEdited by Zedrian on February 23, 2019 12:40AM1 -
Seraphayel✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Bigevilpeter wrote: »
Regurgitating the "it's useless" mantra doesn't make it true though.PS5EUAldmeri Dominion- Khajiit Arcanist -2 -
Lord-Otto✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Seraphayel wrote: »Bigevilpeter wrote: »
Regurgitating the "it's useless" mantra doesn't make it true though.
For PvE it does.5 -
Seraphayel✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Seraphayel wrote: »Bigevilpeter wrote: »
Regurgitating the "it's useless" mantra doesn't make it true though.
For PvE it does.
This game isn't solely about PvE.PS5EUAldmeri Dominion- Khajiit Arcanist -1 -
Razorback174✭✭✭✭✭Seraphayel wrote: »Seraphayel wrote: »Bigevilpeter wrote: »
Regurgitating the "it's useless" mantra doesn't make it true though.
For PvE it does.
This game isn't solely about PvE.
It's not solely about PvP either.6 -
Seraphayel✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Razorback174 wrote: »Seraphayel wrote: »Seraphayel wrote: »Bigevilpeter wrote: »
Regurgitating the "it's useless" mantra doesn't make it true though.
For PvE it does.
This game isn't solely about PvE.
It's not solely about PvP either.
Right. That's why it's totally fine to have racials dedicated to PvE or/and PvP.PS5EUAldmeri Dominion- Khajiit Arcanist -1 -
Razorback174✭✭✭✭✭Seraphayel wrote: »Razorback174 wrote: »Seraphayel wrote: »Seraphayel wrote: »Bigevilpeter wrote: »
Regurgitating the "it's useless" mantra doesn't make it true though.
For PvE it does.
This game isn't solely about PvE.
It's not solely about PvP either.
Right. That's why it's totally fine to have racials dedicated to PvE or/and PvP.
I'm going to have to fundamentally disagree on this one.
A good passive should be balanced and applicable for ALL content, not just a particular sect of PvP or PvE.10 -
Seraphayel✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Razorback174 wrote: »A good passive should be balanced and applicable for ALL content, not just a particular sect of PvP or PvE.
The good thing is, Spell Recharge is one of those racials because it's useful in PvE and PvP (as we've already discussed, it has uses on different builds and classes in PvE). Something like Stealth Detection on the other hand... that's useless in PvE. A Stamina return is not.PS5EUAldmeri Dominion- Khajiit Arcanist -0 -
Lord-Otto✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭No, Spellcharge isn't useful at all in PvE. It's a crutch, but won't affect the maximized player. Other racials do.
But it doesn't matter. You know why old Altmer fans are against it. Btw, your Daedric Princes poll... Lore? Really? FROM YOU? *rolls eyes*
For PvP it's not enough. I've explained it a couple times, I grow tired if it. Short story, Breton sustain + hybrid sustain set + stat set > Altmer + tristat food + sustain set.7 -
Seraphayel✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭No, Spellcharge isn't useful at all in PvE. It's a crutch, but won't affect the maximized player. Other racials do.
But it doesn't matter. You know why old Altmer fans are against it. Btw, your Daedric Princes poll... Lore? Really? FROM YOU? *rolls eyes*
For PvP it's not enough. I've explained it a couple times, I grow tired if it. Short story, Breton sustain + hybrid sustain set + stat set > Altmer + tristat food + sustain set.
Then go and play Breton. I'm tired of this infinite complaining about nothing.
And I've yet to see ONE source in the lore why Spell Recharge is against any established Altmer lore.Edited by Seraphayel on February 23, 2019 6:04PMPS5EUAldmeri Dominion- Khajiit Arcanist -1 -
Lord-Otto✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Seraphayel wrote: »No, Spellcharge isn't useful at all in PvE. It's a crutch, but won't affect the maximized player. Other racials do.
But it doesn't matter. You know why old Altmer fans are against it. Btw, your Daedric Princes poll... Lore? Really? FROM YOU? *rolls eyes*
For PvP it's not enough. I've explained it a couple times, I grow tired if it. Short story, Breton sustain + hybrid sustain set + stat set > Altmer + tristat food + sustain set.
Then go and play Breton. I'm tired of this infinite complaining about nothing.
And I've yet to see ONE source in the lore why Spell Recharge is against any established Altmer lore.
*facepalm*8 -
CyrusArya✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Altmer is in a great place and I look forward to playing one on both a Magplar and Sorc. It will be a premier choice for PvP and PvE. The blowhard Altmer mains screeching all over the forums are a joke at this point and have really exposed themselves as a crowd to never take seriously again in the future. Lul. Again, the arguement about Breton having an easier time sustaining with the same damage is just brain dead logic. They have similar damage when you normalize sustain. In the exact same set up, Altmer will out gun Breton every single time. Literally grade school math. The only arguement I can entertain is that stamina spell charge isn’t very roleplay savvy. But it’s hard to give Altmer a nice flavor buff that doesn’t break the race relative to others, and personally I see great value for stam return in PvP.
I guarantee you the people whining and crying about Altmer all day are the same clowns who say stuff like “Sorcerer is a bad class in PvP”.
4 -
gepe87✭✭✭✭✭
✭Shield nerf attempt/riot was a ESO major event. Even other MMO forum ppl were laughting on us.Gepe, Dunmer MagSorc Pact Grand Overlord | Gaepe, Bosmer MagSorc Dominion General
If you see edits on my replies: typos. English isn't my main language0 -
WrathOfInnos✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭the arguement about Breton having an easier time sustaining with the same damage is just brain dead logic. They have similar damage when you normalize sustain. In the exact same set up, Altmer will out gun Breton every single time. Literally grade school math.
So you’re saying that Breton sustain does not contribute to their damage, but any Altmer sustain would give too much damage?2 -
CyrusArya✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭WrathOfInnos wrote: »
So you’re saying that Breton sustain does not contribute to their damage, but any Altmer sustain would give too much damage?
No that’s actually not at all what I’m saying. What I’m saying is, Breton doesn’t have both similar damage and vastly better sustain. It only has similar damage when you leverage the extra sustain for damage. As far as what the kit itself offers as a baseline, Altmer clearly has higher damage.
In other words: they are balanced and reach the same end result via different means. But Altmer mains don’t want balance is the thing, they just want to be head and shoulder above the rest.Edited by CyrusArya on February 23, 2019 7:34PM2 -
MLGProPlayer✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭They have similar damage when you normalize sustain. In the exact same set up, Altmer will out gun Breton every single time. Literally grade school math.
You're talking about a hypothetical scenario that does not exist in the game (you can not do any endgame content on an Altmer without gold food/absorb glyphs). Literally grade school logic.Edited by MLGProPlayer on February 23, 2019 8:05PM2 -
mongoLC✭✭✭✭Stop subbing, don't spend a dime on crowns or buy the expansion. The only way zos will replace the incompetant people is if they lose money!4
-
CyrusArya✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭MLGProPlayer wrote: »
You're talking about a hypothetical scenario that does not exist in the game (you can not do any endgame content on an Altmer without gold food/absorb glyphs). Literally grade school logic.
It is a hypothetical situation but I suppose the point flew completely over your head. The point being that the line you keep parroting about how Breton has similar damage but way better sustain is false. They only have similar damage when you control for sustain. In other words, they are balanced and the claim you keep purporting is disingenuous hysteria. Or are you going to deny that the Altmer kit offers the most raw damage in a vacuum of any race? That Breton only matches that by leveraging its extra sustain to match Altmers damage output?
Furthermore, I’m pretty certain you can do 4 man dungeons with a berserker glyph on an Altmer. Content far more relevant to the majority of players. In a trials environment, even after all the factors Altmers have been crying about are figured in, it is still pulling out on top for most classes.2 -
MLGProPlayer✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭MLGProPlayer wrote: »
You're talking about a hypothetical scenario that does not exist in the game (you can not do any endgame content on an Altmer without gold food/absorb glyphs). Literally grade school logic.
It is a hypothetical situation but I suppose the point flew completely over your head. The point being that the line you keep parroting about how Breton has similar damage but way better sustain is false. They only have similar damage when you control for sustain. In other words, they are balanced and the claim you keep purporting is disingenuous hysteria. Or are you going to deny that the Altmer kit offers the most raw damage in a vacuum of any race? That Breton only matches that by leveraging its extra sustain to match Altmers damage output?
Furthermore, I’m pretty certain you can do 4 man dungeons with a berserker glyph on an Altmer. Content far more relevant to the majority of players. In a trials environment, even after all the factors Altmers have been crying about are figured in, it is still pulling out on top for most classes.
We don't play in a vacuum. Your point is moot.2 -
CyrusArya✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭MLGProPlayer wrote: »
We don't play in a vacuum. Your point is moot.
Further reinforcing your difficulties in reading comprehension I see. My point isn’t that we play in a vacuum. My point is that the claim “Breton have similar damage but way better sustain” that you lot parrot is disingenuous. Let me break it down to terms you might understand. Altmer has damage. Breton has sustain. When you build to optimize each to their individual strengths, the damage output is similar between the two. In other words: they are balanced. As confirmed by logic, math, and testing. Different paths to the same finish line.
Magicka spell charge wasn’t balanced, because with it Altmer had the best of both worlds meaning it crowded out all other dps options. Furthermore, this entire thread’s premise is false, because I for one along with many PvPers are quite happy with stamina spell charge.3 -
WrathOfInnos✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭WrathOfInnos wrote: »
So you’re saying that Breton sustain does not contribute to their damage, but any Altmer sustain would give too much damage?
No that’s actually not at all what I’m saying. What I’m saying is, Breton doesn’t have both similar damage and vastly better sustain. It only has similar damage when you leverage the extra sustain for damage. As far as what the kit itself offers as a baseline, Altmer clearly has higher damage.
In other words: they are balanced and reach the same end result via different means. But Altmer mains don’t want balance is the thing, they just want to be head and shoulder above the rest.
The 7% cost reduction is almost perfectly balanced with the 258 Spell Damage. The 2000 Max Magicka is the same on both races. And the original (PTS 4.3.0) Altmer Spellcharge passive was very closely balanced with the Breton 100 Magicka Recovery. The defensive passive on Altmer is weak compared to the Breton Spell Resist, but I think most are fine with that because it is based on lore, and defense is valued less than offense in this game.
To break down spellcharge in more detail, it gave 575 Magicka every 6s maximum, so theoretical 95 mag/s. Realistically this was returning resources every 7-10s while parsing, since you’re not going to use a class skill every 6s, so generously assuming 7s cooldown it is 82 magicka per second.
The 100 Magicka Recovery on Breton exceeds 82 magicka per second if they have at least a 64% multiplier of Magicka recovery (for 164 Magicka every 2s). This is easy to achieve in 5 Light Armor (20%) with 75 CP’s (14%) with Major Intellect from potions (20%) and Minor Intellect from having a Sorcerer or Warden in group (10%). That’s not even considering the 10% from Vampirism, or slotting Support skills for another 10% each, or the 2% from slotting Mages guild skills.
What I’m saying is that these 2 races were good on the first iteration of PTS. Then Altmer somehow lost part of its identity to become an unwanted hybrid.Edited by WrathOfInnos on February 23, 2019 9:04PM9 -
MLGProPlayer✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭MLGProPlayer wrote: »
We don't play in a vacuum. Your point is moot.
Further reinforcing your difficulties in reading comprehension I see. My point isn’t that we play in a vacuum. My point is that the claim “Breton have similar damage but way better sustain” that you lot parrot is disingenuous. Let me break it down to terms you might understand. Altmer has damage. Breton has sustain. When you build to optimize each to their individual strengths, the damage output is similar between the two. In other words: they are balanced. As confirmed by logic, math, and testing. Different paths to the same finish line.
Magicka spell charge wasn’t balanced, because with it Altmer had the best of both worlds meaning it crowded out all other dps options. Furthermore, this entire thread’s premise is false, because I for one along with many PvPers are quite happy with stamina spell charge.
192 magicka regen was not better than Breton sustain. Altmer didn't have the best of both worlds. The gap between them was just smaller.Edited by MLGProPlayer on February 23, 2019 9:19PM3 -
Gnortranermara✭✭✭✭✭
✭It is a lie and misrepresentation that Altmer complaints are primarily damage related. SD vs sustain is a fair trade-off. Altmer get more burst, Breton get more sustain. Altmer kill trash and weaker enemies faster while Breton gets the ease of infinite sustain in longer fights. Breton damage catches up and surpasses Altmer around the 1-2 minute mark (varying with skill cost), making Altmer superior in lower intensity content (overland, normal dungeons, easy vets), and Breton superior in endgame content (vet DLC's, trials). This is all fair and good. That part is balanced "close enough".
The major outstanding problem for Altmer is that Breton and Dunmer both have 100% uptime on universal utility passives, while Altmer got shafted with inferior conditional and low uptime passives. And there are still major balance problems with Argonian, Bosmer, Orc/Redguard, and arguably Khajiit too.
The bottom line is that this patch in its current condition is unfit for live servers, and charging people for a single race change during this period is deeply unethical business behavior.Edited by Gnortranermara on February 23, 2019 9:16PM9 -
HuawaSepp✭✭✭SidewalkChalk5 wrote: »It is a lie and misrepresentation that Altmer complaints are primarily damage related. SD vs sustain is a fair trade-off. Altmer get more burst, Breton get more sustain. Altmer kill trash and weaker enemies faster while Breton gets the ease of infinite sustain in longer fights. Breton damage catches up and surpasses Altmer around the 1-2 minute mark (varying with skill cost), making Altmer superior in lower intensity content (overland, normal dungeons, easy vets), and Breton superior in endgame content (vet DLC's, trials). This is all fair and good. That part is balanced "close enough".
The major outstanding problem for Altmer is that Breton and Dunmer both have 100% uptime on universal utility passives, while Altmer got shafted with inferior conditional and low uptime passives. And there are still major balance problems with Argonian, Bosmer, Orc/Redguard, and arguably Khajiit too.
The bottom line is that this patch in its current condition is unfit for live servers, and charging people for a single race change during this period is deeply unethical business behavior.
Exactly thisPTS-EU5
