DPS Comparison of RACES on PTS v4.3.3 (Pretty Graphs, Analyses, and Farming for Insightful Votes)

  • Lord_Eomer
    Lord_Eomer
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    Khajit took huge nerf and become part of ganking setup only.

    10% crit damage not worth and should revert.
  • HatchetHaro
    HatchetHaro
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    Khajit took huge nerf and become part of ganking setup only.

    10% crit damage not worth and should revert.
    Actually, no; they're still extremely viable at PvE DPS, just slightly behind Dunmer.

    A full revert on the change would put them back to the top for PvE DPS and behind on PvP ability. Rather, a middle ground would strike a good balance for both PvE and PvP.
    No, Argonians are still shafted. Khajiiti are still the superior furries.

    Argonians are scaly, not furry.
    As much as I would like to call myself a scalie rather than a furry, scalies are furries.
    Edited by HatchetHaro on February 18, 2019 2:50PM
    Best Argonian NA and I will fight anyone for it

    20 Argonians

    6x IR, 6x GH, 7x TTT, 4x GS, 4x DB, 1x PB, 4x SBS, 1x MM, 1x US, 1x Unchained
  • sneakymitchell
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    I’m still going run my nord.
    Even if it’s the lowest choice but at least it’s not a 10k difference but almost close to 5k.
    Sure 5k difference matters to some.


    But remember nords can take a beating than the other races. It helps not force players to res the dps down cause either too much aoe damage happening, or got unlucky and didn’t pay attention and got one shooted.
    NA-Xbox one- Ebonheart Pact- Nord Tank DK
    PC-NA Ebonheart Pact Nord Stam Templar
  • Protoavis73
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    Running a Nord stamblade (CP480) myself because I had no idea about sustain, recovery etc when I just started the game.
    But I do see that the stamina recovery is not that great on it (needing to have a few stamina recovery enhancements on jewelry instead of weapon damage to reach okay recovery) and it's this that I probably change when the tokens are available.
    Though I can manage fine, did 32K dps in a maw trial last weekend killing sun-eaters etc, I feel there's more.
    So reading these posts are helpful in my choice, though I will not rush the change.
  • Anyron
    Anyron
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    Awesome, good work...

    I must say you are right about argonians are forced to heal but still for healing there are better races - like breton ( which is strong in dps too)
    This can only make argonians as forgotten race, how they was before Mirrowind DLC

    Argonian dps isnt even close to be good and what is sad, there is another dps test which shows argonians on last place in magicka dps too.
    https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/458985/raid-buffed-dps-test-each-class-each-dd-race-pts-4-3-3/p1

    Still noone is doing anything with it, even when i from 4.3.0 constantly spammed forums about argonian dps.

    But hey, its "ballanced"
    Edited by Anyron on February 20, 2019 1:18PM
  • Solinur
    Solinur
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    Combat Metrics does not detect the 10% extra Critical Damage from Khajiiti, and calculates the total damage from Critical Hits based on the lower 190% Critical Damage rather than the actual 200% Critical Damage that Khajiiti have.

    This is more a display issue than anything else. The Damage you do is returned from the api "as is", combat metrics doesn't need to calculate how much crits do.
    It does however do some math to average your stats based on when damage is done during the fight. However this is only relevant if the stat changes during the course of a fight.
    So you could actually do such parses with the passive enabled. The only thing wrong will be the stat display.

    @Solinur Pact EU - PC (Solinur: Templar - Magicka DD, Moves-like-Günther: Sorcerer - Stamina DD, Kinara Sol: Templar - Stamina DD, )
    Addon Author
  • royo
    royo
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    Every time Solinur speaks, you should slap an awesome on the post. Where would this game be without Combat Metrics?
  • HatchetHaro
    HatchetHaro
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    Solinur wrote: »
    Combat Metrics does not detect the 10% extra Critical Damage from Khajiiti, and calculates the total damage from Critical Hits based on the lower 190% Critical Damage rather than the actual 200% Critical Damage that Khajiiti have.

    This is more a display issue than anything else. The Damage you do is returned from the api "as is", combat metrics doesn't need to calculate how much crits do.
    It does however do some math to average your stats based on when damage is done during the fight. However this is only relevant if the stat changes during the course of a fight.
    So you could actually do such parses with the passive enabled. The only thing wrong will be the stat display.
    That sounds fair; I don't know exactly how your addon works and could only speculate as to why the displayed results have been inaccurate.

    The only issue I was having was related to the displayed stats, though, which I rely on for my calculations for normalizing my crit chances in my parses; the issue, in particular, is that, with the passive enabled, all of my Khajiit parses still had about the same % of damage from critical hits as other races, which didn't quite make sense, and using those numbers for recalculation resulted in numbers that seemed completely off. However, it WAS on PTS 4.3.3, and I was able to find a fair workaround, so ultimately I was completely fine.

    Have to say, though, I love the work you do. Don't know where the raiding community would be without your amazing work.

    Peeps, please check out this link to Solinur's latest Combat Metrics beta and help him out!
    Edited by HatchetHaro on February 28, 2019 5:27PM
    Best Argonian NA and I will fight anyone for it

    20 Argonians

    6x IR, 6x GH, 7x TTT, 4x GS, 4x DB, 1x PB, 4x SBS, 1x MM, 1x US, 1x Unchained
  • zaria
    zaria
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    Anyron wrote: »
    Awesome, good work...

    I must say you are right about argonians are forced to heal but still for healing there are better races - like breton ( which is strong in dps too)
    This can only make argonians as forgotten race, how they was before Mirrowind DLC

    Argonian dps isnt even close to be good and what is sad, there is another dps test which shows argonians on last place in magicka dps too.
    https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/458985/raid-buffed-dps-test-each-class-each-dd-race-pts-4-3-3/p1

    Still noone is doing anything with it, even when i from 4.3.0 constantly spammed forums about argonian dps.

    But hey, its "ballanced"
    Yes they did, however Argonians did not needed the nerf, yes they was strong but with the influx of new races for tanking. and Breton for healing, add that tanking or healing is less race based. Wobler is probably happy as Khajit is an better tank race :)
    Grinding just make you go in circles.
    Asking ZoS for nerfs is as stupid as asking for close air support from the death star.
  • Solinur
    Solinur
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    royo wrote: »
    The only issue I was having was related to the displayed stats, though, which I rely on for my calculations for normalizing my crit chances in my parses; the issue, in particular, is that, with the passive enabled, all of my Khajiit parses still had about the same % of damage from critical hits as other races, which didn't quite make sense, and using those numbers for recalculation resulted in numbers that seemed completely off. However, it WAS on PTS 4.3.3, and I was able to find a fair workaround, so ultimately I was completely fine.

    The issue is that this is the only stat I cannot get from API, but have to calculate it myself. Which means that I have to manually build a list of all possible sources and whenever something is changed CMX doesn't recognize it until I implement it. So it's probably a good idea to keep an eye on it whenever you are doing tests like these. I'll try to be more watchful on my end too. ;)
    Edited by Solinur on February 28, 2019 8:03PM
    @Solinur Pact EU - PC (Solinur: Templar - Magicka DD, Moves-like-Günther: Sorcerer - Stamina DD, Kinara Sol: Templar - Stamina DD, )
    Addon Author
  • karthrag_inak
    karthrag_inak
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    Actually, no; they're still extremely viable at PvE DPS, just slightly behind Dunmer.

    if they gear for it and maximize crit chance. If Khajiit are "stark naked" they don't get squat from their primary passive. Are dunmer, orcs, and redguards (for stam) in the same boat? (Honest question, I am not aware of those races or their setups except what i see from folks using top gear and beating equivalently geared jiits). The damage, stat and recovery bonuses are independent of other stats, right?

    If these races aren't equivalently impaired, then this entire "rebalance" is fundamentally, and grossly, flawed.
    Edited by karthrag_inak on February 28, 2019 8:08PM
    PC-NA : 19 Khajiit and 1 Fishy-cat with fluffy delusions. cp3600
    GM of Imperial Gold Reserve trading guild (started in 2017) since 2/2022
    Come visit Karth's Glitter Box, Khajiit's home. Fully stocked guild hall done in sleek Khajiit stylings, with Grand Master Stations, Transmute, Scribing, Trial Dummies, etc. Also has 2 full bowling alleys, nightclub, and floating maze over Wrothgar.(Pariah's Pinacle)
  • xaraan
    xaraan
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    Mudcrabber wrote: »
    I feel like argonians are balanced on the assumption that we're all playing pvp tanks with 3x infused potion jewelry. Like one niche build that hardly anyone uses makes them the best race.

    This is well said. People point to very niche uses and builds as to why Argonians racials are 'good enough' when in reality throughout most common gameplay, not so much. The potion passive is useful and not much more than that outside of those couple niche builds/scenerios.

    I've even tried the potion cooldown build and my god it's expensive. Even more than just doubly expensive b/c you end up losing resources faster for what you give up to run the cool down glyphs, which means you really have to drink the potions on cooldown whether you need all the resources or not b/c usually one particular resource or another is bottomed out.

    If I could pick my 'racial passive' package to go with racial appearance - I'd probably be using Imperial or Nord for my tanks for their passives, Orc or Redguard for my Stam DD passives and Breton for my mag dd passives. Unfortunately, I'm a glutton for punishment and want to play Argonians, so just sticking with the race until I get tired of ESO all together.
    -- @xaraan --
    nightblade: Xaraan templar: Xaraan-dar dragon-knight: Xaraanosaurus necromancer: Xaraan-qa warden: Xaraanodon sorcerer: Xaraan-ra
    AD • NA • PC
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