Kra'gh vs Velidreth when using Deadly Strike

validifyedneb18_ESO · February 2019

Just wondering if anyone has looked into Kra'gh since deadly strike was changed, im testing a far from meta build (Intended as a easy pvp/pve split build) but so far ive found Kra'gh is pulling higher damage than both Stormfist and Veli's on my stamsorc.

Dunmer Stamsorc
Perfect relequens, Deadly Strikes
DW with nirnhoned + decisive and double damage poison
vMA bow infused zerk
Shadow mundus

Fairly standard stam sorc rotation.

Was wondering if anyone has tested this on a more meta build?

Kra'gh 34.7, 36.7, 35.8
Stormfist 34.5, 35.3, 34.6
Velidreth 34.2, 34, 34.6

validifyedneb18_ESO · February 2019

Also just to clarify, this is not the most accurate testing in the world, its more just an indication that further more formal testing may be worth doing.

Wolfahm · February 2019

Pen in a solo set up ( or one that needs more pen ) will out preform wep dmg or recovery with int he same level of value most of the time.
Stormfist also procs a chance at minor vuln. up time ( have seen sub 3% to over 28% before solo with good rng) that will change your numbers solo ( in a trial group this debuff tends to be applied already near 100% )

long story short it depends on the application and if you are hitting pen cap or not.
if you are below 18k~ pen kraghs will win out.
if you are near pen cap in a raid Veli will win out.
if you have sustain problems storm fist can help.

templesus · February 2019

Dps wise, Kraghs outperforms Velidreth individually, excluding the pen/weapon damage, when using Deadly Strikes. Tested it myself. If you’re overpenetrating just take CP out of piercing and allocate it elsewhere.

validifyedneb18_ESO · February 2019

Wolfahm wrote: »

Pen in a solo set up ( or one that needs more pen ) will out preform wep dmg or recovery with int he same level of value most of the time.
Stormfist also procs a chance at minor vuln. up time ( have seen sub 3% to over 28% before solo with good rng) that will change your numbers solo ( in a trial group this debuff tends to be applied already near 100% )

long story short it depends on the application and if you are hitting pen cap or not.
if you are below 18k~ pen kraghs will win out.
if you are near pen cap in a raid Veli will win out.
if you have sustain problems storm fist can help.

was my understanding that one of the reasons Stormfist was BIS for sorcs was the old implosion (not sure on the effects of its removal) and the 5% sorc lightning damage bonus.

The weapon damage in velis definitely seems to be really good, (along with the longer cooldown resulting in less effective downtime), but with the change to shadow making it a more viable pick it would seem you can run that and stack pen through over means, making Kra'gh better for its 1trait.

On paper, Kra'gh does 1850 dps while Veli's does 1560 dps. (With DS), this seems to be a pretty major difference even without considering the effects of the pen, which situationally is better than damage.

MassTerror23 · February 2019

validifyedneb18_ESO wrote: »
Just wondering if anyone has looked into Kra'gh since deadly strike was changed, im testing a far from meta build (Intended as a easy pvp/pve split build) but so far ive found Kra'gh is pulling higher damage than both Stormfist and Veli's on my stamsorc.

Dunmer Stamsorc
Perfect relequens, Deadly Strikes
DW with nirnhoned + decisive and double damage poison
vMA bow infused zerk
Shadow mundus

Fairly standard stam sorc rotation.

Was wondering if anyone has tested this on a more meta build?
Kra'gh 34.7, 36.7, 35.8
Stormfist 34.5, 35.3, 34.6
Velidreth 34.2, 34, 34.6

If your deadly strikes is on your dual wield your essentially wasting the set you get more dps if you use head and shoulders and pick up something else on dual wield because the 14% it gives drops off when you bar swap. I would recommend master’s dual wield dagger axe

LiquidPony · February 2019

validifyedneb18_ESO wrote: »

Wolfahm wrote: »

Pen in a solo set up ( or one that needs more pen ) will out preform wep dmg or recovery with int he same level of value most of the time.
Stormfist also procs a chance at minor vuln. up time ( have seen sub 3% to over 28% before solo with good rng) that will change your numbers solo ( in a trial group this debuff tends to be applied already near 100% )

long story short it depends on the application and if you are hitting pen cap or not.
if you are below 18k~ pen kraghs will win out.
if you are near pen cap in a raid Veli will win out.
if you have sustain problems storm fist can help.

was my understanding that one of the reasons Stormfist was BIS for sorcs was the old implosion (not sure on the effects of its removal) and the 5% sorc lightning damage bonus.

The weapon damage in velis definitely seems to be really good, (along with the longer cooldown resulting in less effective downtime), but with the change to shadow making it a more viable pick it would seem you can run that and stack pen through over means, making Kra'gh better for its 1trait.

On paper, Kra'gh does 1850 dps while Veli's does 1560 dps. (With DS), this seems to be a pretty major difference even without considering the effects of the pen, which situationally is better than damage.

I've been getting better results with Kra'gh + 1 Sharpened + 20-25 more points in Piercing, using The Shadow, on most stam builds.

Kra'gh has always been strong but it has a wonky hitbox so it can be less effective in actual content. It also has a short range.

As mentioned elsewhere, in a solo parse Kra'gh will always look better unless you normalize pen and Stormfist procs Minor Vulnerability and can significantly increase your parse.

As a Dunmer, try going Deadly Strike 3 x Jewelry + Head/Shoulders along with Masters Daggers. Or try Redguard and go with Maelstrom DW and use Rend as your ulti. I've hit 46k+ solo with the Redguard setup ... Rapid Strikes is damage over time so it's buffed by Deadly Strike. Make your offhand sharpened and put enough points in Piercing to match what you'd normally have with The Lover.

vesselwiththepestle · February 2019

Did anyone test Spawn of Mephala with Deadly Strike?

In Dungeons, would you wear DS on body instead of TFS or Hunding's?

validifyedneb18_ESO · February 2019

MassTerror23 wrote: »
validifyedneb18_ESO wrote: »
Just wondering if anyone has looked into Kra'gh since deadly strike was changed, im testing a far from meta build (Intended as a easy pvp/pve split build) but so far ive found Kra'gh is pulling higher damage than both Stormfist and Veli's on my stamsorc.

Dunmer Stamsorc
Perfect relequens, Deadly Strikes
DW with nirnhoned + decisive and double damage poison
vMA bow infused zerk
Shadow mundus

Fairly standard stam sorc rotation.

Was wondering if anyone has tested this on a more meta build?
Kra'gh 34.7, 36.7, 35.8
Stormfist 34.5, 35.3, 34.6
Velidreth 34.2, 34, 34.6
If your deadly strikes is on your dual wield your essentially wasting the set you get more dps if you use head and shoulders and pick up something else on dual wield because the 14% it gives drops off when you bar swap. I would recommend master’s dual wield dagger axe

Considered that, havent tested much in this area but naturally the rotation has the barrage be the last thing cast on the backbar, to ensure that the whole of that ultimate gets the 14% bonus.

Will test no monsters set today, was playing around with that before but only on the PvP side of the build.

LiquidPony · February 2019

validifyedneb18_ESO wrote: »
MassTerror23 wrote: »
validifyedneb18_ESO wrote: »
Just wondering if anyone has looked into Kra'gh since deadly strike was changed, im testing a far from meta build (Intended as a easy pvp/pve split build) but so far ive found Kra'gh is pulling higher damage than both Stormfist and Veli's on my stamsorc.

Dunmer Stamsorc
Perfect relequens, Deadly Strikes
DW with nirnhoned + decisive and double damage poison
vMA bow infused zerk
Shadow mundus

Fairly standard stam sorc rotation.

Was wondering if anyone has tested this on a more meta build?
Kra'gh 34.7, 36.7, 35.8
Stormfist 34.5, 35.3, 34.6
Velidreth 34.2, 34, 34.6
If your deadly strikes is on your dual wield your essentially wasting the set you get more dps if you use head and shoulders and pick up something else on dual wield because the 14% it gives drops off when you bar swap. I would recommend master’s dual wield dagger axe
Considered that, havent tested much in this area but naturally the rotation has the barrage be the last thing cast on the backbar, to ensure that the whole of that ultimate gets the 14% bonus.

Will test no monsters set today, was playing around with that before but only on the PvP side of the build.

When you say Barrage, do you mean Ballista? If so, that is Direct Damage and isn't buffed by Deadly Strike.

SaintSubwayy · February 2019

well no monsterset IMO at all when running DS and Relequen ... both sets are intended to be worn as bodysets.

validifyedneb18_ESO · February 2019

LiquidPony wrote: »
validifyedneb18_ESO wrote: »
MassTerror23 wrote: »
validifyedneb18_ESO wrote: »
Just wondering if anyone has looked into Kra'gh since deadly strike was changed, im testing a far from meta build (Intended as a easy pvp/pve split build) but so far ive found Kra'gh is pulling higher damage than both Stormfist and Veli's on my stamsorc.

Dunmer Stamsorc
Perfect relequens, Deadly Strikes
DW with nirnhoned + decisive and double damage poison
vMA bow infused zerk
Shadow mundus

Fairly standard stam sorc rotation.

Was wondering if anyone has tested this on a more meta build?
Kra'gh 34.7, 36.7, 35.8
Stormfist 34.5, 35.3, 34.6
Velidreth 34.2, 34, 34.6
If your deadly strikes is on your dual wield your essentially wasting the set you get more dps if you use head and shoulders and pick up something else on dual wield because the 14% it gives drops off when you bar swap. I would recommend master’s dual wield dagger axe
Considered that, havent tested much in this area but naturally the rotation has the barrage be the last thing cast on the backbar, to ensure that the whole of that ultimate gets the 14% bonus.

Will test no monsters set today, was playing around with that before but only on the PvP side of the build.
When you say Barrage, do you mean Ballista? If so, that is Direct Damage and isn't buffed by Deadly Strike.

Yeah I did mean Ballista lol.

Good to know that, guess I should have tested or looked it up.

Ill have a play around with some DOT alternatives to see if DS makes anything else a better pick.

Update: yeah even without flawless dawnbreaker on the frontbar rend does more damage. If only DW could hold an enchantment from the offbar

So sad having to use the vMA bow for every build.

templesus · February 2019

vesselwiththepestle wrote: »

Did anyone test Spawn of Mephala with Deadly Strike?

In Dungeons, would you wear DS on body instead of TFS or Hunding's?

Yes I tested Mephala, and it’s good in a heavy attack rotation, however you’re required to run a heavy attack rotation to keep constant uptime.

As for whether using weapons or using it on the body, stamplar specifically I’ve been parsing higher using it on weapons.

Tannus15 · February 2019

AFAIK most stam sorcs running sotrmfist are doing it for the stam regen as much as the damage. Sorc sustain is a pain.