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Switch Racial Passives But not Appearance ?

soynegroyque
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I have a proposal for a system that could be implemented to benefit all parties and allow for more freedom for future changes to racials.

One of the main concerns about racials is whether they will keep changing in the future.
Races as we have them are not easily changeable unlike gear sets, attribute points and skill points. Choosing a race fit for a certain role and then have it become a whole different thing is concerning when the only way to correct it is via that cash shop.

My suggestion is to have a system similar account style change or outfitting but for racials passives.

How will it work?
The racial passive for a race may be unlocked via some feat. Leveling said race to lv50, obtaining Codwell's Gold, etc.
A player may change their current character's racial passives for any other set of racial passives that have been unlocked in the account.
Example:

Player levels up a breton to lv 50 .
Unlock the ability for other characters to opt into using the bretons' passives.
Later they create a dunmer.
The dunmer may now reject or touggle off all dunmer passives and use all passives of the breton race while still being a dunmer.

Things to note.
-This swap will NOT change the characters physical appearance. You may still need to purchase a race change token to completely change your race and appearance.
-You may NOT mix racials, You either have all the passives for race A or all the passives for race B. No in betweens in other to keep balance between races rather than the tailored selection of their specific passives.

The Process
The ability to change passives should be more difficult than changing CP. And should stay in line with other types of respecs like skillpoint. It should not be something that can be changed on the go or inexpensive enough for people to be swapping then every time.
Suggestion:
A Shrine or table which will require gold and/or a premium currency (Passive Change Tokens?) working like the outfit station.


How can ZoS profit out of such system?
People who want to take shortcuts through this system instead of leveling a whole character to lv50 may purchase the racial passives in the store individually or in discounted packs.
Example:
1500 crowns individual races
3500 for a whole alliance
9000 for all 9 base races
To keep ARAA and Imperials relevant, characters may only switch passives within their alliance unless they own ARAA and imperials passives may be unlocked on purchase.
Similarly a 10k crown bundle can exist which offers ARAA and the 9 base races. (Going off the pricing example above)

Additionally possible new currency similar to outfit tokens.

Other Benefits
ZoS may now make drastic changes to races without having to give race changes for free as the player base can change passives using gold or passive change tokens

Min/Maxers may fine tune their builds as they see fit.

Casual/New players are given an incentive to level up more characters or do the necessary feats to unlock race passives, buy more characters slots, or buy the races.

Players can experiment with other races, allowing them to find racial passives that better fit them.

Role players can stay in character without giving up functionality. similar fashion driven players don't have to give up function over form. Some people have grown to love their characters and may not want to change the way they look.

Full Race Change?
People will still try get a full race change because now they can play whatever they want as racial appearances and body types are different accross all races.

This game has evolved to the point where looks don't actually match the function (style change)
Given the vestige is a soulless shell, it doesn't seem too far fetched for them to be linked with the other characters they share their CP with on a different level.

I realize this may not even be possible any time zoon or may never happen. However I think in the long term it will allow everyone to be more diverse and encourage creative building, both in builds and outfits.

*Edit corrected few typos
Edited by soynegroyque on February 16, 2019 9:42AM
  • Strider__Roshin
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    Yeah I'd love to have the Orc passives while looking like a Nord
  • martijnlv40
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    If this would be included with Elsweyr, that'd be great. I like this system, because it's versatile, will make almost everyone happy (except those that don't like any racial passives of course, but that's a bit much) and I think it won't offend anyone. They might squeeze any race, any alliance in there to screw some people over (i.e. you need that pack to use orc passives on a dunmer).
    But I like it, would be great.
  • BlueRaven
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    Personally I would love the kahjit passives while looking like a Bosmer.
  • Chilly-McFreeze
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    Such new and never read before thoughts. I'm amazed.

    1) This doesn't belong in the PTS section. PTS is for testing purposes only. Suggestions of something you thought out yourself and can go to specific sub forums.

    2) This essentially makes race choices meaningless. Like the other dozend of "untie passives from races" thread I had to read.
  • BlueRaven
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    Such new and never read before thoughts. I'm amazed.

    1) This doesn't belong in the PTS section. PTS is for testing purposes only. Suggestions of something you thought out yourself and can go to specific sub forums.

    2) This essentially makes race choices meaningless. Like the other dozend of "untie passives from races" thread I had to read.

    You are still choosing a race, except you are choosing the appearance of another race.

    Players (and myself) have developed an emotional bond with their characters over the years. And in many cases the new race passives destroy what they liked about the race they originally chosen.

    Switching races feels like deleting the character the player has worked with for so long and just rolling a new one. Many players want to keep their races as they look now. To many their characters are NOT disposable. They want to continue their characters story (this is based on a RPG after all).

    But the recent race changes feel like they are stripping the mechanics of what made them roll that race in the first place. It’s natural to want to try to retain the “feel” of their character, and also try to retain the look they have grown used to.
  • Kulvar
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    Can we keep racial passives tied to the actual race like swimming speed, food & drink duration, pickpocket chance, lava damage resistance, ..., and the status effect immunity ?
    Same with the special flavor effect (resourceful, red diamond, ...) [or crazy idea, make them into racial abilities]

    As for Max Health, Max Magicka, Max Stamina, Spell Damage, Weapon Damage, ...
    Make them into CP stars (and the system that will replace CP) with some races having already some points in them by default ?
    As an exemple, even if Altmers are the best mages (they start with points in Max Magicka and Spell Damage), a Nord can train to get to the same level with dedication ?
    (which is basically how TES games worked)
    Edited by Kulvar on February 16, 2019 3:34PM
    Coward Argonian scholar of the Ebonheart Pact
  • MLGProPlayer
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    Such new and never read before thoughts. I'm amazed.

    1) This doesn't belong in the PTS section. PTS is for testing purposes only. Suggestions of something you thought out yourself and can go to specific sub forums.

    2) This essentially makes race choices meaningless. Like the other dozend of "untie passives from races" thread I had to read.

    You didn't have to read this thread.
  • MLGProPlayer
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    Kulvar wrote: »
    Can we keep racial passives tied to the actual race like swimming speed, food & drink duration, pickpocket chance, lava damage resistance, ..., and the status effect immunity ?
    Same with the special flavor effect (resourceful, red diamond, ...) [or crazy idea, make them into racial abilities]

    As for Max Health, Max Magicka, Max Stamina, Spell Damage, Weapon Damage, ...
    Make them into CP stars (and the system that will replace CP) with some races having already some points in them by default ?
    As an exemple, even if Altmers are the best mages (they start with points in Max Magicka and Spell Damage), a Nord can train to get to the same level with dedication ?
    (which is basically how TES games worked)

    This is the optimal solution. The fact that this wasn't the racial system ZOS went with from the start is perplexing.
    Edited by MLGProPlayer on February 16, 2019 3:48PM
  • Strider__Roshin
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    Kulvar wrote: »
    Can we keep racial passives tied to the actual race like swimming speed, food & drink duration, pickpocket chance, lava damage resistance, ..., and the status effect immunity ?
    Same with the special flavor effect (resourceful, red diamond, ...) [or crazy idea, make them into racial abilities]

    As for Max Health, Max Magicka, Max Stamina, Spell Damage, Weapon Damage, ...
    Make them into CP stars (and the system that will replace CP) with some races having already some points in them by default ?
    As an exemple, even if Altmers are the best mages (they start with points in Max Magicka and Spell Damage), a Nord can train to get to the same level with dedication ?
    (which is basically how TES games worked)

    This is the optimal solution. The fact that this wasn't the racial system ZOS went with from the start is perplexing.

    Agreed. This is about to be the first elder scrolls game that I don't play as a Nord because ZOS has made them such a huge handicap to play as.
  • AarDoTaazokaan
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    As a High Elf who self-identifies as a Redguard, I support this initiative.
  • Chilly-McFreeze
    Chilly-McFreeze
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    Such new and never read before thoughts. I'm amazed.

    1) This doesn't belong in the PTS section. PTS is for testing purposes only. Suggestions of something you thought out yourself and can go to specific sub forums.

    2) This essentially makes race choices meaningless. Like the other dozend of "untie passives from races" thread I had to read.

    You didn't have to read this thread.

    You didnt have to start 6 Topics about your favourites Race's Passive either, yet here we are.

    @BlueRaven
    Do you really feel stripped of your chars racial Identity with the upcomming patch? I could undertand you but i don't get the fuss. Altmer are still top mag dps etc. Little nerfs aside. About khajiits however...
  • BlueRaven
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    @Chilly-McFreeze Bosmers are losing stealth. To me that’s a big deal. Right now on pts they went from best in stealth, to tied for last, behind kahjits and imperials.

    (Not that I want those races nerfed, I just want stealth for bosmers buffed. )
    Edited by BlueRaven on February 16, 2019 10:06PM
  • soynegroyque
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    If this would be included with Elsweyr, that'd be great. I like this system, because it's versatile, will make almost everyone happy (except those that don't like any racial passives of course, but that's a bit much) and I think it won't offend anyone. They might squeeze any race, any alliance in there to screw some people over (i.e. you need that pack to use orc passives on a dunmer).
    But I like it, would be great.

    That's it, makes everyone happy.
    And as you say I am not trying to get rid of race changes or ARAA but this system should also follow the limitations of character selection.

    I would rather pay to unlock all races passives and then race/name change all my charaters to fit some idea.
  • Ranger209
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    Kulvar wrote: »
    Can we keep racial passives tied to the actual race like swimming speed, food & drink duration, pickpocket chance, lava damage resistance, ..., and the status effect immunity ?
    Same with the special flavor effect (resourceful, red diamond, ...) [or crazy idea, make them into racial abilities]

    As for Max Health, Max Magicka, Max Stamina, Spell Damage, Weapon Damage, ...
    Make them into CP stars (and the system that will replace CP) with some races having already some points in them by default ?
    As an exemple, even if Altmers are the best mages (they start with points in Max Magicka and Spell Damage), a Nord can train to get to the same level with dedication ?
    (which is basically how TES games worked)

    Agree, they could just give 1000 to each stat pool and 100 to each recovery for a level 50 character and keep them out of racials.
  • MLGProPlayer
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    Such new and never read before thoughts. I'm amazed.

    1) This doesn't belong in the PTS section. PTS is for testing purposes only. Suggestions of something you thought out yourself and can go to specific sub forums.

    2) This essentially makes race choices meaningless. Like the other dozend of "untie passives from races" thread I had to read.

    You didn't have to read this thread.

    You didnt have to start 6 Topics about your favourites Race's Passive either, yet here we are.

    @BlueRaven
    Do you really feel stripped of your chars racial Identity with the upcomming patch? I could undertand you but i don't get the fuss. Altmer are still top mag dps etc. Little nerfs aside. About khajiits however...

    I know you don't care about min-maxing or racial identity, but some people do.

    Coming into every racial complaint thread to post "lol who cares about racials" isn't constructive.
    Edited by MLGProPlayer on February 17, 2019 11:31AM
  • Chilly-McFreeze
    Chilly-McFreeze
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    Such new and never read before thoughts. I'm amazed.

    1) This doesn't belong in the PTS section. PTS is for testing purposes only. Suggestions of something you thought out yourself and can go to specific sub forums.

    2) This essentially makes race choices meaningless. Like the other dozend of "untie passives from races" thread I had to read.

    You didn't have to read this thread.

    You didnt have to start 6 Topics about your favourites Race's Passive either, yet here we are.

    @BlueRaven
    Do you really feel stripped of your chars racial Identity with the upcomming patch? I could undertand you but i don't get the fuss. Altmer are still top mag dps etc. Little nerfs aside. About khajiits however...

    I know you don't carry about min-maxing or racial identity, but some people do.

    Coming into every racial complaint thread to post "lol who cares about racials" isn't constructive.

    You are partly right, I don't care about 1% difference in skeleton parses. Doesn't mean I don't care at all. It's just your endless whining for Altmers not being BiS by a margin large enough to fit your agenda in that bothers me.


    BlueRaven wrote: »
    @Chilly-McFreeze Bosmers are losing stealth. To me that’s a big deal. Right now on pts they went from best in stealth, to tied for last, behind kahjits and imperials.

    (Not that I want those races nerfed, I just want stealth for bosmers buffed. )

    Fair enough. Although I thought more about strictly combat relevant passives. Not much changed there except Dunmers becoming a solid choice for stamina builds. Everything that was viable before is still viable. But if you want to go that way, you're right.
  • BlueRaven
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    Fair enough. Although I thought more about strictly combat relevant passives. Not much changed there except Dunmers becoming a solid choice for stamina builds. Everything that was viable before is still viable. But if you want to go that way, you're right.

    Thank you.
    I am sure when all is said and done all that of the races will be close enough in any dps parses. I have done CR+3 on my Bosmer and I am sure I will still be able to do so with the new passives if I wish.

    That being said I think the new “Hunters eye” passive is bent so much to pvp that I won’t be putting any points into it. While I can think of some cases that the speed might be nice, I am not using it now so I can do without it later.

    But I did not choose a Bosmer to do trials with, in fact trials did not exist yet when I rolled the character. I rolled a Bosmer because I like stealthy sniper-y archer gameplay in Pve. And to lose that with a “we’ll fix it later” response from the devs is just infuriating.
  • Anyron
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    This is good, and smart idea

    And thats why it never happen
  • Galarthor
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    If you do that, you might as well abolish racial passives all together. Races would be purely cosmetic, just as in your proposal. Abolishing the races, however, has the advantage that races (or rather their passives) do not have to be balanced any longer and races are equal to one another by default.
  • CurvedSwords123
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    I'll be a Redguard, but with orc or imperial passives. I'll take it.
  • Valrien
    Valrien
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    no
    Valrien Dravic -- Level 50 Dunmeri Sorcerer (EP)
    Garahel Dravic -- Level 50 Bosmeri Nightblade (EP)
    Tamriel Unlimited was a mistake. One Tamriel was a bigger mistake
  • Minno
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    OP clearly has never played an RPG nor a MMO before lol.

    Want a game with select-able options/passives? I hear call of duty has what you need lol
    Minno - DC - Forum-plar Extraordinaire
    - Guild-lead for MV
    - Filthy Casual
  • zaria
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    Now for the serious question :smile:
    How many will complain that they loose their old racial passives then they race change.
    "Are they not added, I demand an refund"
    Grinding just make you go in circles.
    Asking ZoS for nerfs is as stupid as asking for close air support from the death star.
  • MLGProPlayer
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    Minno wrote: »
    OP clearly has never played an RPG nor a MMO before lol.

    Want a game with select-able options/passives? I hear call of duty has what you need lol

    What are you talking about?

    Race is a purely cosmetic choice in the vast majority of RPGs/MMOs. ESO is one of the few games where racial choice determines your performance. Race is meaningless in the single player TES games. It's also meaningless in GW2 and FFXIV. ESO is an exception to the rule, not the rule.
    Edited by MLGProPlayer on February 18, 2019 4:10PM
  • zaria
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    Minno wrote: »
    OP clearly has never played an RPG nor a MMO before lol.

    Want a game with select-able options/passives? I hear call of duty has what you need lol

    What are you taliing about?

    Race is a purely cosmetic choice in the vast majority of RPGs/MMOs. ESO is one of the few games to do it like that. Race is meaningless in the single player TES games. It's also meaningless in GW2 and FFXIV.
    This also cosmetic in WOW outside of lore related restrictions on who classes an race can play.

    But In WOW you can not select an weak race, you can select an weak class but you can do that in ESO to with an magic race and warden as most obvious.
    Grinding just make you go in circles.
    Asking ZoS for nerfs is as stupid as asking for close air support from the death star.
  • Mettaricana
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    I would eat this up with like nords at a sweetroll amd mead eating contest

    Id go back to my altmer main looks and keep orc and bosmer for passives
  • soynegroyque
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    Minno wrote: »
    OP clearly has never played an RPG nor a MMO before lol.

    Want a game with select-able options/passives? I hear call of duty has what you need lol

    If racials are going to have any impact in gameplay diversity that are not purely cosmetic, then there needs to be away to change between them.

    If they are purely cosmetic than the issue isn't there.

    The alternative is of course removing all the passives.
  • soynegroyque
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    zaria wrote: »
    Now for the serious question :smile:
    How many will complain that they loose their old racial passives then they race change.
    "Are they not added, I demand an refund"

    You mean from my post right?
    I was sure to say that they have to tougle them off, or like a drop down menu or mundus stone.
    Edited by soynegroyque on February 18, 2019 4:50PM
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