Defining what Pelinials means to DKs, Templars, and Other Classes

Tommy_The_Gun · January 2019

888and888 wrote: »

Hi All,

I am a bit confused about this post.
The OP shared a build in December, where the main stat was Stamina.
Now it seems that things have changed and this build is out of date, Magicka is the way to go as primary stat/type of damage.
Am I correct?

I apologise if my question is stupid, I am basically a casual player still trying to figure which class I like 🤗

With Pelinal's Aptitude set: (5 items) Your Weapon Damage and Spell Damage both become the highest of the two values.)
It is easier to build for a high weapon dmg rather than spell dmg as medium armour has Agility passive that Increases your Weapon Damage by 15%. Also it was a go-to way for WW builds as WW has Savage Strength passive that Increases Weapon Damage by 18% (now it is not that relevant any more as WW healing skill scales of your max health).

btw. Would it be possible to use Pelinal's Aptitude on a Khajit next update ? They have 8% weapon & spell crit bonus.

technohic · January 2019

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

888and888 wrote: »

Hi All,

I am a bit confused about this post.
The OP shared a build in December, where the main stat was Stamina.
Now it seems that things have changed and this build is out of date, Magicka is the way to go as primary stat/type of damage.
Am I correct?

I apologise if my question is stupid, I am basically a casual player still trying to figure which class I like 🤗

With Pelinal's Aptitude set: (5 items) Your Weapon Damage and Spell Damage both become the highest of the two values.)
It is easier to build for a high weapon dmg rather than spell dmg as medium armour has Agility passive that Increases your Weapon Damage by 15%. Also it was a go-to way for WW builds as WW has Savage Strength passive that Increases Weapon Damage by 18% (now it is not that relevant any more as WW healing skill scales of your max health).

btw. Would it be possible to use Pelinal's Aptitude on a Khajit next update ? They have 8% weapon & spell crit bonus.

Khajiit is my plan for that. Also; I do switch between magicka and stamina a bit even if not hybrid. It should be a good 2 way race for that. Barring any ridiculous changes.

mav1234 wrote: »

technohic wrote: »

I swapped ravager for 7th legion and moved it to my NB where I am really wanting to use all those magicka abilities but do not like the magicka heals. Lets me get vigor and I always wanted FM on a magblade anyway as all the mobility the class has is wasted if your are rooted and snared.

Running something like mark with breech and fracture, (or if I opted to go with ele drain, theres just so many damned NBs these days) Im wondering if medium wouldnt be better. Thing is, I am getting some crit damage to go with the NB crit bonuses and decent sustain.

Curious to hear how it goes for you. I've been running 7th on my hybrid nb (light pelinals) in bgs and I've found it to be decent, but I ultimately end up just feeling like stamblade is unequivocally better... which about sums how I feel on melee magblade in general haha.

This is working after a while of trying to get used to it for what I want. I am using FM and Vigor so I have to remember to not lean on crouch and I can use cloak a little more liberally without it. Im also running pretty much melee so mark/ele drain is a must for penetration since you dont just get it from concealed weapon. My build is very much a utility build though. I just wanted my heals to be decent and I can still kill your average player if I lure them from their group; and NBs who try to cloak if they cannot kill their target while also being hit.

miteba · February 2019

@SkysOutThizeOut i asked the same question in your YouTube vid channel, but i will ask here too since more people may have the same doubts!

In your magDK wouldnt you benefit more using apprentice mundus, SD glyphs and a SD set instead of stamina 7ºLegion, WD glyphs and warrior mundus?
Pelinals will equal SD to WD... And WD would buff stamina skills, right?
Why divide them? I would understand if it was to add some stamina but WD? Or am i missing something there...

The hybrid build using magicka focus as in the CP tree i understand and agree since this is an out-of-the-box build around Pelinals 5th piece bonus 😉 Nice vid by the way

SkysOutThizeOut · February 2019

@miteba I am not splitting SD and WD. If you notice, the sets I chose do not have SD in them. I do all WD because minor brutality was buffed to 10%. Read the post on why mag damage hybrid dk works and why it doesn't make sense to do the stam version.

miteba · February 2019

SkysOutThizeOut wrote: »

(...)Read the post on why mag damage hybrid dk works and why it doesn't make sense to do the stam version.

Thanks @SkysOutThizeOut i finally understood it 😉 all this hybrid thing messed up with my head 😵
I was analysing it only from SD perspective and ignoring minor brutality although you bolded it 😎

Savos_Saren · February 2019

@SkysOutThizeOut

I'm not sure if you've tested your build on PTS yet- but I'd imagine that basing your damage off of weapon damage (like you did before) but missing out on 7% flame damage would make this build much weaker. Is this the case or no?

Xsorus · February 2019

Savos_Saren wrote: »

@SkysOutThizeOut

I'm not sure if you've tested your build on PTS yet- but I'd imagine that basing your damage off of weapon damage (like you did before) but missing out on 7% flame damage would make this build much weaker. Is this the case or no?

It doesn’t, the damage ends up being similar only your stamina heals are now more powerful as well.

miteba · February 2019

Yep because we lose the 7% flame damage but now gain more 258 SpellDamage/WeaponDamage.
So Dunmer loses some racial identity but gains damage not only for flame skills
AND fits perfectly in this hybrid build.

SkysOutThizeOut · February 2019

@Savos_Saren no I haven’t tested, but imagine it’d be relatively similar, but the higher the damage is, the greater the loss. Major minor brutality brings the gained weapon damage to 338. While I love this build with engine guardian, we will lose a fair amount of damage with the dw enchant change because we won’t get an 80% or better up time on an additional 452 wd, it’ll be halved.

I’ve preserved my dk in his build and hybrid setup. Still plan to play him solo sometimes... but...

I want more controlled aoe burst and want to rely on dots less.

888and888 · February 2019

888and888 wrote: »

Hi All,

I am a bit confused about this post.
The OP shared a build in December, where the main stat was Stamina.
Now it seems that things have changed and this build is out of date, Magicka is the way to go as primary stat/type of damage.
Am I correct?

I apologise if my question is stupid, I am basically a casual player still trying to figure which class I like 🤗

Hi @SkysOutThizeOut,

I have re-read your post and I think your build have evolved since your first post (https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/448910/drizzt-do-liftins-medium-armor-hybrid-dk-the-stam-whip-build-the-stam-whip-we-ve-all-wanted/p1).

Now it seems clear to me that the way to go is Magical Damage, with Magicka as main stat; not Stamina and physical damage.
Based on the test you run, Light Armour offers more damage, Medium Armour more healing due to their respective passive.

Many thanks for sharing your knowledge with the casual community and, please, feel free to correct me if I am wrong.

SkysOutThizeOut · February 2019

@888and888 you nailed it right on the head.

psychotic13 · February 2019

Youre correct in saying that youll get the highest damage number by utilizing the minor buffs, but it doesnt mean that those two classes are only viable at hybrid.

I tried a StamSorc base hyrbid a few patches ago and it was surprisingly good. Think i have a video ill have to check, going to try it again now with a better build (by a few patches ago it was before jewellery crafting came out, so no infused either)

Also i did run SnB, imo puncture is too strong on a hyrbid to pass up, easy access to major fracture and breach which will help alot because you dont end up with alot of penetration on a hyrbid due to splitting CP

SkysOutThizeOut · February 2019

@psychotic13 referring to pelinial’s use relevant to min maxing. You take too big of a hit on stat density in my opinion if you use it other classes. Could it still be good, yeah, but you could play something better. Pelinials on other classes just minimizes burst damage in my opinion. I prefer burst. I know a sorc who plays hybrid in terms of utility without pelinials. And it’s a good build.

psychotic13 · February 2019

SkysOutThizeOut wrote: »

@psychotic13 referring to pelinial’s use relevant to min maxing. You take too big of a hit on stat density in my opinion if you use it other classes. Could it still be good, yeah, but you could play something better. Pelinials on other classes just minimizes burst damage in my opinion. I prefer burst. I know a sorc who plays hybrid in terms of utility without pelinials. And it’s a good build.

Youre slightly overlooking other classes, sorc for exampe, 2% wd increase for each sorcerer skill, i have 3 on my damage bar plus dawnbreaker which gives another 3%. Im only 1% lower without brutality. Also templar gets 6% from passive or 9 with dawnbreaker also, weapon damage is easier to stack so it would be easier to go weapon damage over spell damage on that class.

Also sorc would get burst because curse and fury are delayed damage.

This is the video i had of my hybrid from a few patches ago, working on a better set up and going to try hybrid again.

https://xboxdvr.com/gamer/benn-g-x/video/63801977

SkysOutThizeOut · February 2019

@psychotic13 well then I stand corrected...

Waylander · February 2019

You can also access minor brutality from poisons (albeit on a short time window)

mav1234 · February 2019

psychotic13 wrote: »

Youre slightly overlooking other classes, sorc for exampe, 2% wd increase for each sorcerer skill, i have 3 on my damage bar plus dawnbreaker which gives another 3%. Im only 1% lower without brutality. Also templar gets 6% from passive or 9 with dawnbreaker also, weapon damage is easier to stack so it would be easier to go weapon damage over spell damage on that class.

Also sorc would get burst because curse and fury are delayed damage.

This is the video i had of my hybrid from a few patches ago, working on a better set up and going to try hybrid again.

https://xboxdvr.com/gamer/benn-g-x/video/63801977

regarding sorcs, that 2% WD is also 2% spell damage; minor brutality is just WD, so by going a mag-based hybrid that stacks WD, you achieve more spell damage (thru pelinals) than you really could otherwise on mag dk, because you leverage that 10%. It's not *just* that dks get 10% weap dmg, it's the fact it is a buff that mag dk doesn't otherwise have access to.

but it is true you can be effective with hybrid builds on other classes, I just think that it seems to work right now best on dk. It's cool you have a sorc variant that has functioned well. I wanted to try a s&b/2h sorc setup on one so good to see it can work, but I wanted a mag based spammable so I had more of a chance of proccing frags...

psychotic13 · February 2019

mav1234 wrote: »

psychotic13 wrote: »

Youre slightly overlooking other classes, sorc for exampe, 2% wd increase for each sorcerer skill, i have 3 on my damage bar plus dawnbreaker which gives another 3%. Im only 1% lower without brutality. Also templar gets 6% from passive or 9 with dawnbreaker also, weapon damage is easier to stack so it would be easier to go weapon damage over spell damage on that class.

Also sorc would get burst because curse and fury are delayed damage.

This is the video i had of my hybrid from a few patches ago, working on a better set up and going to try hybrid again.

https://xboxdvr.com/gamer/benn-g-x/video/63801977

regarding sorcs, that 2% WD is also 2% spell damage; minor brutality is just WD, so by going a mag-based hybrid that stacks WD, you achieve more spell damage (thru pelinals) than you really could otherwise on mag dk, because you leverage that 10%. It's not *just* that dks get 10% weap dmg, it's the fact it is a buff that mag dk doesn't otherwise have access to.

but it is true you can be effective with hybrid builds on other classes, I just think that it seems to work right now best on dk. It's cool you have a sorc variant that has functioned well. I wanted to try a s&b/2h sorc setup on one so good to see it can work, but I wanted a mag based spammable so I had more of a chance of proccing frags...

Ive tried a few hybrid builds, on DK too. For me it really has to be worth it if youre going to go hybrid. By that i mean you should only go hybrid if your gaining something you dont have on a pure magicka/stam class, its never worth it for 1 skill either.

So as a DK, MagDK doesnt have access to a decent gap closer (chains is trash) or an execute and has limited mobility. While StamDK lacks the spammable. When i tried DK hybrid i ran 2h main bar so id have stampede whip and executioner so the weak points of both styles didnt exist in the hybrid. The healing version of flames of oblivion was decent too.

Theyre alot more fun to play i will say that, and people never read whats going to happen cause they never expected to get lashed by a dk with a 2h, or fragged by a stamsorc.

If you want to make a serious hybrid though theyre not cheap to kit out.

thegreat_one · February 2019

I wanted to try this set with Caluurions and velidreth

KBKB · February 2019

Really glad someone bought up stam sorc!!

My first main was a Breton Mag Sorc always has been and feels too holy to tinker with now.
Stam sorc is level 40 Currently so I havent done any testing yet but after playing the Msorc since release and all the others stam and mag I always felt Ssorc would have to be amazing even more so with Overload 3rd bar! shame I can not live that now but I'll press on regardless.

Basically the stam toolkit with Curse and Mage's Fury seems like very appealing play to me. Frags I can't really see being used that smoothly especially after all the nerfs damage/stun its had it doesn't seem worth the bar space unless yo full magicka, although the thought of switching to overload for the regen and weave with bars of curse/fury/frags makes you a legitimate ranged player for a time at least while holding a SnB or others.

I've rolled an orc and am tempted to go down the tanky heavy armor route, but with damage being lowered in your primary pool going tankier is probably going to make that a hell of a lot worse considering the 15% WD on med. Even the weapon choice is interesting SnB/2H/DW I can see all of them working in their own way,

So I will probably start out with something like 5M/1/1 SnB/2H 2Troll-king/1 Dom 1Vel, 5 Pelinials, 5 Bone Pirate - all WD aiming for 15k Mana 25kHP 30K Stam. This will be my base point I will tinker, so I probably wont be keeping bone pirate but it will give me good freedom to teach myself the class initially and fill other gaps before looking at regen in primary pool. WW seems meh now with the Heal change, Vamp could be nice for the 10% Stam/Mag regen and damage reduction but im over having my toons look terrible and have their health regen nuked not the greatest but its passive healing and racials.

Either way I am looking so forward to trying, testing and perfecting it. I know you've gone off pure min maxing and viable skills but after playing a Msorc for so long i'm hovering on 1k CP and playing all the others stam I just feel there is defs huge potential for both success and enjoyment.

On further reflection, the change to wards scaling off HP/Resistances could also be found a use for with the options Stam can provide you with. Streak/BoL too although I wont be in a hurry to ditch Stampede/Crit rush I could see maximum trollage on bads with the two skills paired, being stam based would not make it a main stay on my bar however.

As you said never change for one skill as I see it 1.Fury 2. Curse. 3. Frags (at a pinch) are worth it with Streak, Ward, Mines and Twilight while being situational could be included for utility and support's sakes or just something out of the box that has been tinkered to perform.

psychotic13 · February 2019

Currently trying x5 Pelinal, x5 Alchemist, Master bow and switching between grothdar and troll king, grothdar and hurricane is up at the same time is pretty nice, but troll king gives the survivability, even found engine guardian decent but i really didnt need the sustain.

This is on a stamsorc base with 2H/Bow, i sit at 4.2k weapon/spell damage with just brutality up. Add alchemist, master bow, beserker glyph and continuous the damage is like 6-7k.

Stampede/dizzy/endless/curse/rally/dawny
Injection/dark deal/vigor/surge/hurricane/comet

Still switching some things around to see what fits best for me, running purge was pretty nice. Even streak over stampede. Might go back to SnB though cause i do like the major fracture and major breach, and easy access to defile which is always helpful.