Defining what Pelinials means to DKs, Templars, and Other Classes

SkysOutThizeOut
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In this post I want to provide my thoughts on what Pelinials means to various classes and why it's an effective set on a Mag DK and has potential for Stamplars.
DRAGONKNIGHTS
1. DK is the only class that has minor brutality. If you invest all damage into weapon damage, you capitalize on the minor brutality buff and turn Pelinials into a damage set, as well as a utility one. It opens the door to all other weapon damage sets. This is why my mag damage "hybrid" DK was and is so successful. Bottom line: Pelinials is a damage set for a mag dk if used properly (300-400 spell damage from 5th set piece) and offers increased utility with non-traditional heals for mag characters.
2. Pelinials is ineffective on a stam dk. Why? Because you immediately deny yourself a legitimate sustain set and significantly diminish your damage and stam heals as a result. You can gain utility and tankyness through the magdk heals and in turn sustain in a different way, but if that's the goal... you'd be better off running a tank set or building into sustain to outlast an opponent.

TEMPLARS
1. The only other possible class that could potentially benefit from Pelinials the way a magicka damage dk can is a stamina damage templar because templars have minor sorcery and thus minor sorcery will allow a stamina damage templar to run all spell damage to gain potentially more weapon damage and gain utility in mag heals. If a stamina templar chooses to do this, they will want to do it in heavy because the medium armor weapon damage passive will be ineffective stacking into spell damage.
2. For the same reason pelinials isn't effective for stam dks, it isn't effective for magplars.

Idea for heavy armor stamplar with consistent damage. Pelinials with rattle/overwhelming surge/soulshine. All SD glyphs.

OTHER CLASSES
As far as I can tell, any other class that attempts a hybrid build with pelinials will only be limiting their potential since no other class has access to minor brutality/sorcery.

If you disagree please share what you know or point out what I am missing.

Drizzt Do'Liftin

Mag Dk Hybrid Build for those who haven't seen it
Edited by SkysOutThizeOut on January 27, 2019 7:26PM
  • Get_Packed
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    I thought pelinials was a scroll for an event.
  • VaranisArano
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    Get_Packed wrote: »
    I thought pelinials was a scroll for an event.

    Pelinal's Aptitude is a crafted set that's used to make hybrid builds thanks to its bonus to equalize Spell and Weapon damage. https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Pelinal's_Aptitude

    Bonuses
    2 items: Adds 14-1206 Maximum Health
    3 items: Adds 1-129 Stamina Recovery
    4 items: Adds 1-129 Magicka Recovery
    5 items: Your Spell and Weapon Damage both become the highest of the two values.

    Now, its also the Scroll of Pelinal's Ferocity used in Midyear Mayhem, but its the Pelinal's Aptitude set we're talking about here.
    Edited by VaranisArano on January 27, 2019 9:30PM
  • technohic
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    I'm wondering if magplar using ravager wouldn't be so bad. Get 6% weapon damage in passive which is greater than minor prophecy. Think youd run light to get crit and penetration list from POTL for PL. I want to try it and see if I get ravager procs. Could be harder hitting healing sweeps, Vigor HOT, HTD burst heal. I need a couple pieces of pelinals crafted yet and I probably would want the new Khajiit resources and crit.
  • SkysOutThizeOut
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    @technohic minor sorcery is 10% now.
  • technohic
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    @technohic minor sorcery is 10% now.

    Ahh thats right. Forgot about that. Is the 4% + anything match the difference between the raw damage some stam sets provide though?
  • fred4
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    <---- Scratches head. Pelinal makes you a hybrid, yet you keep talking about stam and mag DKs / templars. This seems a superficial analysis to me. Medium armor passives buff weapon damage. The default option of any Pelinal's build is to use that and stack weapon damage. While Kena and Balorgh give you spell damage, there are more choices for weapon damage. What spell damage set do you have? Somehow I think that Spell Strategist being tied to a target won't be translated by Pelinal's. On the other hand there are many weapon damage proc sets to choose from. You could also argue that NB and Warden give you access to Minor Berserk, which buffs all damage, and therefore makes those classes a good fit.
  • technohic
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    fred4 wrote: »
    <---- Scratches head. Pelinal makes you a hybrid, yet you keep talking about stam and mag DKs / templars. This seems a superficial analysis to me. Medium armor passives buff weapon damage. The default option of any Pelinal's build is to use that and stack weapon damage. While Kena and Balorgh give you spell damage, there are more choices for weapon damage. What spell damage set do you have? Somehow I think that Spell Strategist being tied to a target won't be translated by Pelinal's. On the other hand there are many weapon damage proc sets to choose from. You could also argue that NB and Warden give you access to Minor Berserk, which buffs all damage, and therefore makes those classes a good fit.

    Hes referring to (I am assuming as its the way I am looking at it) is you are still likely to have one be your primary because of penetration and crit so even though you are hybrid, youd focus more on one damage type.

    And damned you Drizzt! Got me getting the stuff together. If they are copying to TC tomorrow again, I will have it to try out. Even going to put together as is and test a bit.
    Edited by technohic on January 27, 2019 11:14PM
  • fred4
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    technohic wrote: »
    fred4 wrote: »
    <---- Scratches head. Pelinal makes you a hybrid, yet you keep talking about stam and mag DKs / templars. This seems a superficial analysis to me. Medium armor passives buff weapon damage. The default option of any Pelinal's build is to use that and stack weapon damage. While Kena and Balorgh give you spell damage, there are more choices for weapon damage. What spell damage set do you have? Somehow I think that Spell Strategist being tied to a target won't be translated by Pelinal's. On the other hand there are many weapon damage proc sets to choose from. You could also argue that NB and Warden give you access to Minor Berserk, which buffs all damage, and therefore makes those classes a good fit.

    Hes referring to (I am assuming as its the way I am looking at it) is you are still likely to have one be your primary because of penetration and crit so even though you are hybrid, youd focus more on one damage type.
    I've tried Pelinal's many times, sometimes just to get Vigor on a magicka build or Honor the Dead on a stamina build. It's never worked well, whether with balanced or unbalanced stat pools. Some builds were decent, but simply swapping medium Pelinal's for plain old Bone Pirate, for example, made the build better. I've never figured out a really good hybrid.

    Crit is a problem, although there are a few things you can do. Slimecraw buffs everything, including both types of crit. Flames of Oblivion gives you both Savagery and Prophecy. Pierce Armor gives you both types of pen. I wouldn't mind a stamina build with a ranged execute, but everything I've tried, thus far, has been lacklustre.
  • SkysOutThizeOut
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    fred4 wrote: »
    <---- Scratches head. Pelinal makes you a hybrid, yet you keep talking about stam and mag DKs / templars. This seems a superficial analysis to me. Medium armor passives buff weapon damage. The default option of any Pelinal's build is to use that and stack weapon damage. While Kena and Balorgh give you spell damage, there are more choices for weapon damage. What spell damage set do you have? Somehow I think that Spell Strategist being tied to a target won't be translated by Pelinal's. On the other hand there are many weapon damage proc sets to choose from. You could also argue that NB and Warden give you access to Minor Berserk, which buffs all damage, and therefore makes those classes a good fit.

    @fred4 Yes, I am because you need to pick a focus for your damage. For example, light armor stacking weapon damage on mag dk with pelinials yields more damage than wearing medium armor because of the crit chance and penetration. The sustain from the light, allows you to spec harder into damage. You can reference my build. You need spell penetration more on light armor because people generally have higher spell resistances anyway. If you wanted to be tankier with stronger heals and stack bleeds then yeah, go medium, but your magicka attacks won't hit as hard. If you choose to do physical damage while wearing pelinials on a dk, you will gimp yourself because you could just wear another damage set to further capitalize on minor brutality. So yeah, there are focuses within a hybrid, the type of damage and type of heals/utility.
    fred4 wrote: »
    technohic wrote: »
    fred4 wrote: »
    <---- Scratches head. Pelinal makes you a hybrid, yet you keep talking about stam and mag DKs / templars. This seems a superficial analysis to me. Medium armor passives buff weapon damage. The default option of any Pelinal's build is to use that and stack weapon damage. While Kena and Balorgh give you spell damage, there are more choices for weapon damage. What spell damage set do you have? Somehow I think that Spell Strategist being tied to a target won't be translated by Pelinal's. On the other hand there are many weapon damage proc sets to choose from. You could also argue that NB and Warden give you access to Minor Berserk, which buffs all damage, and therefore makes those classes a good fit.

    Hes referring to (I am assuming as its the way I am looking at it) is you are still likely to have one be your primary because of penetration and crit so even though you are hybrid, youd focus more on one damage type.
    I've tried Pelinal's many times, sometimes just to get Vigor on a magicka build or Honor the Dead on a stamina build. It's never worked well, whether with balanced or unbalanced stat pools. Some builds were decent, but simply swapping medium Pelinal's for plain old Bone Pirate, for example, made the build better. I've never figured out a really good hybrid.

    Crit is a problem, although there are a few things you can do. Slimecraw buffs everything, including both types of crit. Flames of Oblivion gives you both Savagery and Prophecy. Pierce Armor gives you both types of pen. I wouldn't mind a stamina build with a ranged execute, but everything I've tried, thus far, has been lacklustre.

    As my post explains, there are only 2 classes that can truly benefit from "hybrid," dk and templar... more specifically a magicka damaging dk will benefit more because it will gain the buff of minor brutality and it'll compensate for not having a damage set in lieu of pelinials. Same for stamina templar because it now gains 10% for running spell damage that will translate, but it would only be worth examining in heavy armor.

    @technohic guessed correctly with what I was referring to.
  • technohic
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    fred4 wrote: »
    technohic wrote: »
    fred4 wrote: »
    <---- Scratches head. Pelinal makes you a hybrid, yet you keep talking about stam and mag DKs / templars. This seems a superficial analysis to me. Medium armor passives buff weapon damage. The default option of any Pelinal's build is to use that and stack weapon damage. While Kena and Balorgh give you spell damage, there are more choices for weapon damage. What spell damage set do you have? Somehow I think that Spell Strategist being tied to a target won't be translated by Pelinal's. On the other hand there are many weapon damage proc sets to choose from. You could also argue that NB and Warden give you access to Minor Berserk, which buffs all damage, and therefore makes those classes a good fit.

    Hes referring to (I am assuming as its the way I am looking at it) is you are still likely to have one be your primary because of penetration and crit so even though you are hybrid, youd focus more on one damage type.
    I've tried Pelinal's many times, sometimes just to get Vigor on a magicka build or Honor the Dead on a stamina build. It's never worked well, whether with balanced or unbalanced stat pools. Some builds were decent, but simply swapping medium Pelinal's for plain old Bone Pirate, for example, made the build better. I've never figured out a really good hybrid.

    Crit is a problem, although there are a few things you can do. Slimecraw buffs everything, including both types of crit. Flames of Oblivion gives you both Savagery and Prophecy. Pierce Armor gives you both types of pen. I wouldn't mind a stamina build with a ranged execute, but everything I've tried, thus far, has been lacklustre.

    Drizzts DK build he has is pretty good. It basically takes those huge weapon damage sets to make them apply to magicka where you have a lot more class options to go along with vigor. You'll have more potency still as full one way or the other, but to me it opens up options.
  • SkysOutThizeOut
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    @technohic Potentially no more potency, but the same or more, because you can still run destro/resto. OR 2h for the HOT with destro and have that big weapon/spell damage buff on your melee bar. I say the same or more because pelinials 5th piece really does look just like a damage set offering an additional 300-400 spell damage from that minor brutality buff we just accessed.
  • mav1234
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    I've been playing around with pelinals on melee magblade since it frees a barslot for major sorcerery and gives a class in desperate need of decent healing vigor... It may be the most effective form of melee magblade I've tried in BGs, but that isn't saying a ton given it still feels weaker than stamblade.

    So far, the most effective variant is using a GS frontbar and a resto staff backbar... I've tried 7th and Lich as the 2 offsets... I think I prefer lich, but I need to get my sustain to a sweeter spot with 7th to give it more of a try.
    Edited by mav1234 on January 27, 2019 11:46PM
  • SkysOutThizeOut
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    @mav1234 engine guardian
  • mav1234
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    @mav1234 engine guardian

    Good idea, I'll give it a try later.
  • technohic
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    OK I have my khajiit templar speced with ravager, pelinals, bloodspawn. 5 1 1 light.Running 2h front bar, back bar 1h-shield because I want to keep defile. Front bar I am sitting about 500 less weapon damage than if I ran my usual full stam ravager Cyrodiils ward. Got my mag recovery to match what my stam was and my health and magicka matches about what my health and stam did before. Missing the crit bonus I would have with stam as well for Khajiit. Going to light from medium, I have more penetration and less damage. I still have repentance as I feel that will help my stam in a pinch.

    I want to see it on TC as I will be gaining some health, stam, and magicka, and mag recovery and spell crit on khajiit. The resource pools should allow me to flip some more into weapon damage. Im used to 15kish vigors. Right now I am sitting close to 10k vigor tooltip when procced and around 11k HTD.

    Point of concern: Ravagers still procing but doesnt feel as often. Either need more testing or Im only getting it from light attack weaves
    Edited by technohic on January 28, 2019 12:43AM
  • Vapirko
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    technohic wrote: »
    OK I have my khajiit templar speced with ravager, pelinals, bloodspawn. 5 1 1 light.Running 2h front bar, back bar 1h-shield because I want to keep defile. Front bar I am sitting about 500 less weapon damage than if I ran my usual full stam ravager Cyrodiils ward. Got my mag recovery to match what my stam was and my health and magicka matches about what my health and stam did before. Missing the crit bonus I would have with stam as well for Khajiit. Going to light from medium, I have more penetration and less damage. I still have repentance as I feel that will help my stam in a pinch.

    I want to see it on TC as I will be gaining some health, stam, and magicka, and mag recovery and spell crit on khajiit. The resource pools should allow me to flip some more into weapon damage. Im used to 15kish vigors. Right now I am sitting close to 10k vigor tooltip when procced and around 11k HTD.

    Point of concern: Ravagers still procing but doesnt feel as often. Either need more testing or Im only getting it from light attack weaves

    Dark elf will be good for this build next patch and run a vamp for the extra sustain.
  • technohic
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    Vapirko wrote: »
    technohic wrote: »
    OK I have my khajiit templar speced with ravager, pelinals, bloodspawn. 5 1 1 light.Running 2h front bar, back bar 1h-shield because I want to keep defile. Front bar I am sitting about 500 less weapon damage than if I ran my usual full stam ravager Cyrodiils ward. Got my mag recovery to match what my stam was and my health and magicka matches about what my health and stam did before. Missing the crit bonus I would have with stam as well for Khajiit. Going to light from medium, I have more penetration and less damage. I still have repentance as I feel that will help my stam in a pinch.

    I want to see it on TC as I will be gaining some health, stam, and magicka, and mag recovery and spell crit on khajiit. The resource pools should allow me to flip some more into weapon damage. Im used to 15kish vigors. Right now I am sitting close to 10k vigor tooltip when procced and around 11k HTD.

    Point of concern: Ravagers still procing but doesnt feel as often. Either need more testing or Im only getting it from light attack weaves

    Dark elf will be good for this build next patch and run a vamp for the extra sustain.

    Possibly. Khajiit offers 2 way crit so Im liking that. Actually going to take this build for a real spin now and see how it goes even gimped a little. Theres a lot of healing coming in with still having the oh shitttt button of HTD
  • technohic
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    My hybrid templar seems to work pretty well with a couple tweaks. I cant keep using reverb bash for defile and forward momentum, and vigor, and I actually decided to run POTL in stead of PL for the minor breach and fracture. My recovery is enough to have full stam back from a vigor by the time it expires but the pool is not enough for so many to safely break free. My magicka sustain is doing well at 2200 and Im not struggling so I think Im going to give up some for more stam. May switch from Ravager to TK but havent decided yet.

    Saw some 13k HTDs in Cyrodiil along with some vigor and FM ticking going on. Have to watch the defiles though, as my defense is healing.
  • Xsorus
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    In this post I want to provide my thoughts on what Pelinials means to various classes and why it's an effective set on a Mag DK and has potential for Stamplars.
    DRAGONKNIGHTS
    1. DK is the only class that has minor brutality. If you invest all damage into weapon damage, you capitalize on the minor brutality buff and turn Pelinials into a damage set, as well as a utility one. It opens the door to all other weapon damage sets. This is why my mag damage "hybrid" DK was and is so successful. Bottom line: Pelinials is a damage set for a mag dk if used properly (300-400 spell damage from 5th set piece) and offers increased utility with non-traditional heals for mag characters.
    2. Pelinials is ineffective on a stam dk. Why? Because you immediately deny yourself a legitimate sustain set and significantly diminish your damage and stam heals as a result. You can gain utility and tankyness through the magdk heals and in turn sustain in a different way, but if that's the goal... you'd be better off running a tank set or building into sustain to outlast an opponent.

    TEMPLARS
    1. The only other possible class that could potentially benefit from Pelinials the way a magicka damage dk can is a stamina damage templar because templars have minor sorcery and thus minor sorcery will allow a stamina damage templar to run all spell damage to gain potentially more weapon damage and gain utility in mag heals. If a stamina templar chooses to do this, they will want to do it in heavy because the medium armor weapon damage passive will be ineffective stacking into spell damage.
    2. For the same reason pelinials isn't effective for stam dks, it isn't effective for magplars.

    Idea for heavy armor stamplar with consistent damage. Pelinials with rattle/overwhelming surge/soulshine. All SD glyphs.

    OTHER CLASSES
    As far as I can tell, any other class that attempts a hybrid build with pelinials will only be limiting their potential since no other class has access to minor brutality/sorcery.

    If you disagree please share what you know or point out what I am missing.

    Drizzt Do'Liftin

    Mag Dk Hybrid Build for those who haven't seen it

    Your original setup I thought was meh but switching to using magicka based attacks and stamina based heals makes it worthwhile and that’s probably another class would have use if they wanted similar results.
  • Stibbons
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    Pelinal should be reworked to actually usefull by magic characters.
  • Fur_like_snow
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    Tried it on my stam sorc with alchemist. I was only really using curse to line up my burst but the results was okay. I felt stronger running bone pirate tbh.
  • technohic
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    With Templar, I got to a point where about all I was doing is using a weapon damage set to power a magplar. It's kind of nice as you then can use forward momentum for root snare immunity and make use if brutality and HOT from it, and that compliments race against time for mobility. Other than that, it gave access to Vigor but I cant jelp but feel I could use something else more on a magplar. Also was not getting Ravager procs on sweeps so if I step down to 7th legion, I start to feel I could get close with 2 magicka sets

    I think I'd like this better for a class lacking healing options and stam spammable.
  • technohic
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    I swapped ravager for 7th legion and moved it to my NB where I am really wanting to use all those magicka abilities but do not like the magicka heals. Lets me get vigor and I always wanted FM on a magblade anyway as all the mobility the class has is wasted if your are rooted and snared.

    Running something like mark with breech and fracture, (or if I opted to go with ele drain, theres just so many damned NBs these days) Im wondering if medium wouldnt be better. Thing is, I am getting some crit damage to go with the NB crit bonuses and decent sustain. I'd also consider armor of truth to control the weapon damage proc bit I dont have the pieces
    Edited by technohic on January 30, 2019 4:50AM
  • Drdeath20
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    If you wear rattlecage and pelinals and have your SD/WPD at around 3k does major brutality also buff up your weapon damage?
  • mav1234
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    technohic wrote: »
    I swapped ravager for 7th legion and moved it to my NB where I am really wanting to use all those magicka abilities but do not like the magicka heals. Lets me get vigor and I always wanted FM on a magblade anyway as all the mobility the class has is wasted if your are rooted and snared.

    Running something like mark with breech and fracture, (or if I opted to go with ele drain, theres just so many damned NBs these days) Im wondering if medium wouldnt be better. Thing is, I am getting some crit damage to go with the NB crit bonuses and decent sustain.

    Curious to hear how it goes for you. I've been running 7th on my hybrid nb (light pelinals) in bgs and I've found it to be decent, but I ultimately end up just feeling like stamblade is unequivocally better... which about sums how I feel on melee magblade in general haha.
  • technohic
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    mav1234 wrote: »
    technohic wrote: »
    I swapped ravager for 7th legion and moved it to my NB where I am really wanting to use all those magicka abilities but do not like the magicka heals. Lets me get vigor and I always wanted FM on a magblade anyway as all the mobility the class has is wasted if your are rooted and snared.

    Running something like mark with breech and fracture, (or if I opted to go with ele drain, theres just so many damned NBs these days) Im wondering if medium wouldnt be better. Thing is, I am getting some crit damage to go with the NB crit bonuses and decent sustain.

    Curious to hear how it goes for you. I've been running 7th on my hybrid nb (light pelinals) in bgs and I've found it to be decent, but I ultimately end up just feeling like stamblade is unequivocally better... which about sums how I feel on melee magblade in general haha.

    Theres not much for fighting you get can get over a stamblade. A lot of stamblades will be over 3k weapon damage unbuffed, and/or have their pools pushed high ignoring some crit resist and I dont think I can match that as a hybrid. This character is for mobility and utility in Cyrodiil where I have been using it to hunt other NBs. They'll have more damage and bigger heals from vigor. I'll have more cloak and the ability to, and speed in cloak, more Mark movement to different targets, and fears if I slot it. I was using camo hunter when detect pots were down but now gave radiant magelight which us cheaper, has a bigger radius, and protects me when the other NBs try to get a jump on me. Good NBs you probably are at best going to get them to give up the kill, but the snipe cloakers? You take cloak away from them and they drop.

    Really its kind of odd. A year ago, I probably used my NB for solo while I'd use my stamplar for zerg surfing, small man and up. Now I'm more likely to run my stamplar solo due to familiarity and the NB was collecting dust as I got bored of the gameplay. I'm starting to bring it out for small man and zerg surfing because there is just so many NBs out there.

    Last night before I switched; I was soloing around on that hybrid plar for an hour and a half near about half a dozen randoms so not quite . Filled 10 of a kill enemy NB quest and having vigor plus HTD worked really well to recover ;but it was just monotonous. All came while they were trying g to gank with buddies running siege off Nickel. The night before on my NB before taking it more magicka based; I was on 3 hours. Had 86-1 kill death ratio after an early death, but finished on a streak in the mid 80s and I wouldn't be surprised if half of them were NBs.

    I'd rather just keep getting better on my stamplar but when each fight is 5 minutes getting that NB killed, trying to keep them out of stealth; it's just not getting any better at anything other than predicting where they ate and popping detect pots.
  • 888and888
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    Hi All,

    I am a bit confused about this post.
    The OP shared a build in December, where the main stat was Stamina.
    Now it seems that things have changed and this build is out of date, Magicka is the way to go as primary stat/type of damage.
    Am I correct?

    I apologise if my question is stupid, I am basically a casual player still trying to figure which class I like 🤗
  • SkysOutThizeOut
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    @888and888 watch my build video, re-read this post, then come back and ask questions and I’ll do my best to answer. I can’t explain how it works any better than I have already.
  • NyassaV
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    Pretty much though I feel like a warden could have limited success with it depending on your aim/goal. Every time I try and do something similar with a nightblade it just dies and needs to see a therapist for identity issues.
    Flawless Conqueror ~ Grand Overlord
    She/Her ~ PC/NA | I record things for fun and for info
  • 888and888
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    @888and888 watch my build video, re-read this post, then come back and ask questions and I’ll do my best to answer. I can’t explain how it works any better than I have already.

    I'll do it again, thanks.

    The problem with the video is that I'm not a native speaker and I can't understand what you say due to poor audio quality :(
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