I don't want to be mean about it, but dlc dungeons

MLGProPlayer · February 2019

LordTareq wrote: »

I dislike them for 4 reasons.
#1. First of all they are quite hard so it takes organised play, requiring you to be in a guild most likely and invest time and effort to learn them in order to complete them. I don't want to commit that much time and energy.

It takes like 2-3 hours to learn a new vet DLC dungeon. I'm only in trade guilds and social guilds (I'm not in any trial guilds). You don't need top score raiders to complete these dungeons. Anyone can complete them, and in a fairly short amount of time too.

Arunei · February 2019

Billdor wrote: »

zvavi wrote: »

Ok. So I read a lot of complaints about dlc dungeons being too hard by some players. And git gud comments from others. I wanted to express my opinion on it.

1. The git good comment. A lot of those that are using l2p and git good comments are people that have gone through many wipes in vet dlc dungeons. Many. The git gud comment usually don't come from "you don't know how to play" but from the understanding, that those dungeons need hard work and determination to complete. That you need to go in there and learn mechanics and die. Die. Die. Die.

2. First time I tanked vSCP, I got killed. Again. And again. And again. It was the dungeon that thought me that I need to learn to tank, asap. It was hard and challenging, and to be honest? I am happy it was not a pug group. Second time it was a pug group, still passed it.

3. After doing it many times. Mostly pugging it. Most of the runs end up with us finishing the dungeon. I had runs with people that didn't know mechanics and couldn't understand English well. 3 of those who were there first time. Dd's with barely 30k DPS combined. Last boss runs when I ended up the only person alive few times during the fight that we passed. (I usually tank it when I pug because hardest role imo). I never kicked a person. Nor did I quit. All mechanics were passable for new players to the dungeon. We managed to pass it. I believe in that statement for most vet dlc content, excluding vFH, but I think it is because I didn't do it enough times. Exclude vWGT too, since you really need either god level coordination or 20k DPS on each dd to be able to do it(with a good tank) or 35k if the tank is lacking.

4. For dungeons you do first time, you should learn them with guildies in voice. Even if they don't know them yet, because yes, it is a known fact that pugging vet dlc is a harsh thing, and needs at least one if not two members that know what they are doing to pass them well.

5. So other than dying. And dying. And dying. There is no other way to pass vet dlc. You, the people that are complaining, are totally right. DLC vet dungeons are totally challenging. and even if it feels like rng hates you and that you got wiped because of stupid random one shot mechanic, some people don't die from them that often or at all. It means you can get used to them too.

6. Please. If you pug those things. And you don't know mechanics. Say so in chat. If they plan on kicking those who don't know anyway, you will be kicked later on anyway. Better save wipes and frustration from people that are willing to stay and explain them. I called a guy an idiot because he lied about knowing mechanics. And then explained them. Finished the dungeon.

7. Some people don't have maelstrom weapons because they didn't manage to complete it. Those that are determined enough have them. Same with vet dlc dungeons. True, they are not easy. True they can be frustrating on your first run. But I almost managed to do no death in vSCP while the tank was there first time as tank and we were 3 dd's. Randomly. No plans on it what's so ever. Still was a speed run. (Death was one of the easier mechanics, the tank forgot to run to shield after Ice dudes). And one of the members were a dd which is afraid of this content like beast from fire. He thinks he plays bad and had barely 22k DPS when I started running vSCP with him (after making him punch a dummy for a while he is very happy with his growing damage on stamsorc without maelstrom bow, altmer, 32k and growing). And now he happily joins if I need some more hands. Honestly? If he can? Everyone can. Because he is one of those who complain it is to hard. He is one of those who are afraid of dying and don't want to pull the team back with "lack of skill". Also run it with NB tank 300 cp lady that has left our guild for some reason (still heartbroken, need more main tanks in my guild). I don't remember any wipes. Probably because was long ago, but 100% not more than 3 wipes. All of number 7, is connected back to numbers 1 2 and 3. It is possible. For those who try enough. Yes. It is end game content.

I mean. For all those who knows undertale. For some things. You gotta have DETERMINATION. So please. Next time you see l2p or git gud, don't take it as an insult. Either you have the determination and possibility to do it (old age and some extreme health problems are the only thing that comes to mind that can stop you from managing with determination). Or you don't try enough. And don't plan to.

PS: ye I got kicked from some vet dlc dungeons for saying "hey guys I don't know mechanics so please explain them before bosses", but some runs people explained and helped, and it was fun! Never again am I tanking vet dlc dungeons with 999 ping spikes though, vMoS . (And yes, still passed it, and I was the tank)

I'm a firm believer that you SHOULDN'T even attempt to queue for ANY vDLC dungeons unless you have read a breif overview of the mechanics. Why should the rest of the group suffer because you're a selfish prick (not you OP, the people within the context of this discussion)?

So people who want to try and do vDLC stuff should just not do it because they might 'make the rest of the group suffer'? This is part of the mentality that makes people not even bother with trying harder content. Just because someone can't fly through more challenging dungeons doesn't mean they should be excluded from content they want to try. You can read and watch all the guides on any given content you want, that doesn't mean jack squat when it comes to doing the content itself. The only way you get good at these things is by experiencing them and actually adapting your play style to take on whatever particular thing you're doing.

This is what I don't get. People are constantly being told to 'get good', to 'learn to play', being told they're just making excuses for not trying harder content and that they're crybabies or carebears. But then there are people like this who turn around and blanket term everyone who's not familiar with harder content as people wanting carries, as selfish players who can't contribute to a group. Low CP players get kicked from groups before they can even prove whether or not they have the ability to complete any given dungeons.

So someone tell me how people are supposed to grow and get better as players like they keep getting told to do, if no one actually takes the time to explain things to them or give them the chance to GET the experience everyone keeps telling them they need to get?

StormChaser3000 · February 2019

Billdor wrote: »

zvavi wrote: »

Ok. So I read a lot of complaints about dlc dungeons being too hard by some players. And git gud comments from others. I wanted to express my opinion on it.

1. The git good comment. A lot of those that are using l2p and git good comments are people that have gone through many wipes in vet dlc dungeons. Many. The git gud comment usually don't come from "you don't know how to play" but from the understanding, that those dungeons need hard work and determination to complete. That you need to go in there and learn mechanics and die. Die. Die. Die.

2. First time I tanked vSCP, I got killed. Again. And again. And again. It was the dungeon that thought me that I need to learn to tank, asap. It was hard and challenging, and to be honest? I am happy it was not a pug group. Second time it was a pug group, still passed it.

3. After doing it many times. Mostly pugging it. Most of the runs end up with us finishing the dungeon. I had runs with people that didn't know mechanics and couldn't understand English well. 3 of those who were there first time. Dd's with barely 30k DPS combined. Last boss runs when I ended up the only person alive few times during the fight that we passed. (I usually tank it when I pug because hardest role imo). I never kicked a person. Nor did I quit. All mechanics were passable for new players to the dungeon. We managed to pass it. I believe in that statement for most vet dlc content, excluding vFH, but I think it is because I didn't do it enough times. Exclude vWGT too, since you really need either god level coordination or 20k DPS on each dd to be able to do it(with a good tank) or 35k if the tank is lacking.

4. For dungeons you do first time, you should learn them with guildies in voice. Even if they don't know them yet, because yes, it is a known fact that pugging vet dlc is a harsh thing, and needs at least one if not two members that know what they are doing to pass them well.

5. So other than dying. And dying. And dying. There is no other way to pass vet dlc. You, the people that are complaining, are totally right. DLC vet dungeons are totally challenging. and even if it feels like rng hates you and that you got wiped because of stupid random one shot mechanic, some people don't die from them that often or at all. It means you can get used to them too.

6. Please. If you pug those things. And you don't know mechanics. Say so in chat. If they plan on kicking those who don't know anyway, you will be kicked later on anyway. Better save wipes and frustration from people that are willing to stay and explain them. I called a guy an idiot because he lied about knowing mechanics. And then explained them. Finished the dungeon.

7. Some people don't have maelstrom weapons because they didn't manage to complete it. Those that are determined enough have them. Same with vet dlc dungeons. True, they are not easy. True they can be frustrating on your first run. But I almost managed to do no death in vSCP while the tank was there first time as tank and we were 3 dd's. Randomly. No plans on it what's so ever. Still was a speed run. (Death was one of the easier mechanics, the tank forgot to run to shield after Ice dudes). And one of the members were a dd which is afraid of this content like beast from fire. He thinks he plays bad and had barely 22k DPS when I started running vSCP with him (after making him punch a dummy for a while he is very happy with his growing damage on stamsorc without maelstrom bow, altmer, 32k and growing). And now he happily joins if I need some more hands. Honestly? If he can? Everyone can. Because he is one of those who complain it is to hard. He is one of those who are afraid of dying and don't want to pull the team back with "lack of skill". Also run it with NB tank 300 cp lady that has left our guild for some reason (still heartbroken, need more main tanks in my guild). I don't remember any wipes. Probably because was long ago, but 100% not more than 3 wipes. All of number 7, is connected back to numbers 1 2 and 3. It is possible. For those who try enough. Yes. It is end game content.

I mean. For all those who knows undertale. For some things. You gotta have DETERMINATION. So please. Next time you see l2p or git gud, don't take it as an insult. Either you have the determination and possibility to do it (old age and some extreme health problems are the only thing that comes to mind that can stop you from managing with determination). Or you don't try enough. And don't plan to.

PS: ye I got kicked from some vet dlc dungeons for saying "hey guys I don't know mechanics so please explain them before bosses", but some runs people explained and helped, and it was fun! Never again am I tanking vet dlc dungeons with 999 ping spikes though, vMoS . (And yes, still passed it, and I was the tank)

I'm a firm believer that you SHOULDN'T even attempt to queue for ANY vDLC dungeons unless you have read a breif overview of the mechanics. Why should the rest of the group suffer because you're a selfish prick (not you OP, the people within the context of this discussion)?

This. I have done only a couple vet dlc so far but I always briefly read about mechanics and then do 1-2 runs in normal mode before stepping into vet versions.
Otherwise that would be a complete disrespect towards the group.

BuddyAces · February 2019

Arunei wrote: »

Billdor wrote: »

zvavi wrote: »

Ok. So I read a lot of complaints about dlc dungeons being too hard by some players. And git gud comments from others. I wanted to express my opinion on it.

1. The git good comment. A lot of those that are using l2p and git good comments are people that have gone through many wipes in vet dlc dungeons. Many. The git gud comment usually don't come from "you don't know how to play" but from the understanding, that those dungeons need hard work and determination to complete. That you need to go in there and learn mechanics and die. Die. Die. Die.

2. First time I tanked vSCP, I got killed. Again. And again. And again. It was the dungeon that thought me that I need to learn to tank, asap. It was hard and challenging, and to be honest? I am happy it was not a pug group. Second time it was a pug group, still passed it.

3. After doing it many times. Mostly pugging it. Most of the runs end up with us finishing the dungeon. I had runs with people that didn't know mechanics and couldn't understand English well. 3 of those who were there first time. Dd's with barely 30k DPS combined. Last boss runs when I ended up the only person alive few times during the fight that we passed. (I usually tank it when I pug because hardest role imo). I never kicked a person. Nor did I quit. All mechanics were passable for new players to the dungeon. We managed to pass it. I believe in that statement for most vet dlc content, excluding vFH, but I think it is because I didn't do it enough times. Exclude vWGT too, since you really need either god level coordination or 20k DPS on each dd to be able to do it(with a good tank) or 35k if the tank is lacking.

4. For dungeons you do first time, you should learn them with guildies in voice. Even if they don't know them yet, because yes, it is a known fact that pugging vet dlc is a harsh thing, and needs at least one if not two members that know what they are doing to pass them well.

5. So other than dying. And dying. And dying. There is no other way to pass vet dlc. You, the people that are complaining, are totally right. DLC vet dungeons are totally challenging. and even if it feels like rng hates you and that you got wiped because of stupid random one shot mechanic, some people don't die from them that often or at all. It means you can get used to them too.

6. Please. If you pug those things. And you don't know mechanics. Say so in chat. If they plan on kicking those who don't know anyway, you will be kicked later on anyway. Better save wipes and frustration from people that are willing to stay and explain them. I called a guy an idiot because he lied about knowing mechanics. And then explained them. Finished the dungeon.

7. Some people don't have maelstrom weapons because they didn't manage to complete it. Those that are determined enough have them. Same with vet dlc dungeons. True, they are not easy. True they can be frustrating on your first run. But I almost managed to do no death in vSCP while the tank was there first time as tank and we were 3 dd's. Randomly. No plans on it what's so ever. Still was a speed run. (Death was one of the easier mechanics, the tank forgot to run to shield after Ice dudes). And one of the members were a dd which is afraid of this content like beast from fire. He thinks he plays bad and had barely 22k DPS when I started running vSCP with him (after making him punch a dummy for a while he is very happy with his growing damage on stamsorc without maelstrom bow, altmer, 32k and growing). And now he happily joins if I need some more hands. Honestly? If he can? Everyone can. Because he is one of those who complain it is to hard. He is one of those who are afraid of dying and don't want to pull the team back with "lack of skill". Also run it with NB tank 300 cp lady that has left our guild for some reason (still heartbroken, need more main tanks in my guild). I don't remember any wipes. Probably because was long ago, but 100% not more than 3 wipes. All of number 7, is connected back to numbers 1 2 and 3. It is possible. For those who try enough. Yes. It is end game content.

I mean. For all those who knows undertale. For some things. You gotta have DETERMINATION. So please. Next time you see l2p or git gud, don't take it as an insult. Either you have the determination and possibility to do it (old age and some extreme health problems are the only thing that comes to mind that can stop you from managing with determination). Or you don't try enough. And don't plan to.

PS: ye I got kicked from some vet dlc dungeons for saying "hey guys I don't know mechanics so please explain them before bosses", but some runs people explained and helped, and it was fun! Never again am I tanking vet dlc dungeons with 999 ping spikes though, vMoS . (And yes, still passed it, and I was the tank)

I'm a firm believer that you SHOULDN'T even attempt to queue for ANY vDLC dungeons unless you have read a breif overview of the mechanics. Why should the rest of the group suffer because you're a selfish prick (not you OP, the people within the context of this discussion)?

So people who want to try and do vDLC stuff should just not do it because they might 'make the rest of the group suffer'? This is part of the mentality that makes people not even bother with trying harder content. Just because someone can't fly through more challenging dungeons doesn't mean they should be excluded from content they want to try. You can read and watch all the guides on any given content you want, that doesn't mean jack squat when it comes to doing the content itself. The only way you get good at these things is by experiencing them and actually adapting your play style to take on whatever particular thing you're doing.

This is what I don't get. People are constantly being told to 'get good', to 'learn to play', being told they're just making excuses for not trying harder content and that they're crybabies or carebears. But then there are people like this who turn around and blanket term everyone who's not familiar with harder content as people wanting carries, as selfish players who can't contribute to a group. Low CP players get kicked from groups before they can even prove whether or not they have the ability to complete any given dungeons.

So someone tell me how people are supposed to grow and get better as players like they keep getting told to do, if no one actually takes the time to explain things to them or give them the chance to GET the experience everyone keeps telling them they need to get?

Going to go out on a limb here and say that watching a video is way better than having someone type out the strats in party chat to something like vMHK HM.

Shardaxx · February 2019

Arunei wrote: »

So someone tell me how people are supposed to grow and get better as players like they keep getting told to do, if no one actually takes the time to explain things to them or give them the chance to GET the experience everyone keeps telling them they need to get?

The elitists don't care. They will run these dungeons as soon as they come out, learn the mechanics, finish it on vet, and then belittle anyone who isn't as dedicated as them. That's why they do what they do - to feel superior.

spartaxoxo · February 2019

malicia wrote: »

@LordTareq

Won't you be able to do them on normal pretty easily? You don't have to do them on vet to get the drops or the story. Only the monster sets and the bragging right achievements are locked behind vet.

The monster sets are some of the most important pieces of gear. I doubt that people would complain as much if the difference was cosmetic.

Furthermore, it makes trying to farm them god awful even if you know what you are doing. Spending 6 hours in one spot, dying over and over again may feel good when you beat it. But most won't want to go back in there after you have skinned it, resulting in having to repeat that process all over again.

spartaxoxo · February 2019

Billdor wrote: »

zvavi wrote: »

Ok. So I read a lot of complaints about dlc dungeons being too hard by some players. And git gud comments from others. I wanted to express my opinion on it.

1. The git good comment. A lot of those that are using l2p and git good comments are people that have gone through many wipes in vet dlc dungeons. Many. The git gud comment usually don't come from "you don't know how to play" but from the understanding, that those dungeons need hard work and determination to complete. That you need to go in there and learn mechanics and die. Die. Die. Die.

2. First time I tanked vSCP, I got killed. Again. And again. And again. It was the dungeon that thought me that I need to learn to tank, asap. It was hard and challenging, and to be honest? I am happy it was not a pug group. Second time it was a pug group, still passed it.

3. After doing it many times. Mostly pugging it. Most of the runs end up with us finishing the dungeon. I had runs with people that didn't know mechanics and couldn't understand English well. 3 of those who were there first time. Dd's with barely 30k DPS combined. Last boss runs when I ended up the only person alive few times during the fight that we passed. (I usually tank it when I pug because hardest role imo). I never kicked a person. Nor did I quit. All mechanics were passable for new players to the dungeon. We managed to pass it. I believe in that statement for most vet dlc content, excluding vFH, but I think it is because I didn't do it enough times. Exclude vWGT too, since you really need either god level coordination or 20k DPS on each dd to be able to do it(with a good tank) or 35k if the tank is lacking.

4. For dungeons you do first time, you should learn them with guildies in voice. Even if they don't know them yet, because yes, it is a known fact that pugging vet dlc is a harsh thing, and needs at least one if not two members that know what they are doing to pass them well.

5. So other than dying. And dying. And dying. There is no other way to pass vet dlc. You, the people that are complaining, are totally right. DLC vet dungeons are totally challenging. and even if it feels like rng hates you and that you got wiped because of stupid random one shot mechanic, some people don't die from them that often or at all. It means you can get used to them too.

6. Please. If you pug those things. And you don't know mechanics. Say so in chat. If they plan on kicking those who don't know anyway, you will be kicked later on anyway. Better save wipes and frustration from people that are willing to stay and explain them. I called a guy an idiot because he lied about knowing mechanics. And then explained them. Finished the dungeon.

7. Some people don't have maelstrom weapons because they didn't manage to complete it. Those that are determined enough have them. Same with vet dlc dungeons. True, they are not easy. True they can be frustrating on your first run. But I almost managed to do no death in vSCP while the tank was there first time as tank and we were 3 dd's. Randomly. No plans on it what's so ever. Still was a speed run. (Death was one of the easier mechanics, the tank forgot to run to shield after Ice dudes). And one of the members were a dd which is afraid of this content like beast from fire. He thinks he plays bad and had barely 22k DPS when I started running vSCP with him (after making him punch a dummy for a while he is very happy with his growing damage on stamsorc without maelstrom bow, altmer, 32k and growing). And now he happily joins if I need some more hands. Honestly? If he can? Everyone can. Because he is one of those who complain it is to hard. He is one of those who are afraid of dying and don't want to pull the team back with "lack of skill". Also run it with NB tank 300 cp lady that has left our guild for some reason (still heartbroken, need more main tanks in my guild). I don't remember any wipes. Probably because was long ago, but 100% not more than 3 wipes. All of number 7, is connected back to numbers 1 2 and 3. It is possible. For those who try enough. Yes. It is end game content.

I mean. For all those who knows undertale. For some things. You gotta have DETERMINATION. So please. Next time you see l2p or git gud, don't take it as an insult. Either you have the determination and possibility to do it (old age and some extreme health problems are the only thing that comes to mind that can stop you from managing with determination). Or you don't try enough. And don't plan to.

PS: ye I got kicked from some vet dlc dungeons for saying "hey guys I don't know mechanics so please explain them before bosses", but some runs people explained and helped, and it was fun! Never again am I tanking vet dlc dungeons with 999 ping spikes though, vMoS . (And yes, still passed it, and I was the tank)

I'm a firm believer that you SHOULDN'T even attempt to queue for ANY vDLC dungeons unless you have read a breif overview of the mechanics. Why should the rest of the group suffer because you're a selfish prick (not you OP, the people within the context of this discussion)?

Most don't. They are doing their random daily

zaria · February 2019

StormChaser3000 wrote: »

Billdor wrote: »

zvavi wrote: »

Ok. So I read a lot of complaints about dlc dungeons being too hard by some players. And git gud comments from others. I wanted to express my opinion on it.

1. The git good comment. A lot of those that are using l2p and git good comments are people that have gone through many wipes in vet dlc dungeons. Many. The git gud comment usually don't come from "you don't know how to play" but from the understanding, that those dungeons need hard work and determination to complete. That you need to go in there and learn mechanics and die. Die. Die. Die.

2. First time I tanked vSCP, I got killed. Again. And again. And again. It was the dungeon that thought me that I need to learn to tank, asap. It was hard and challenging, and to be honest? I am happy it was not a pug group. Second time it was a pug group, still passed it.

3. After doing it many times. Mostly pugging it. Most of the runs end up with us finishing the dungeon. I had runs with people that didn't know mechanics and couldn't understand English well. 3 of those who were there first time. Dd's with barely 30k DPS combined. Last boss runs when I ended up the only person alive few times during the fight that we passed. (I usually tank it when I pug because hardest role imo). I never kicked a person. Nor did I quit. All mechanics were passable for new players to the dungeon. We managed to pass it. I believe in that statement for most vet dlc content, excluding vFH, but I think it is because I didn't do it enough times. Exclude vWGT too, since you really need either god level coordination or 20k DPS on each dd to be able to do it(with a good tank) or 35k if the tank is lacking.

4. For dungeons you do first time, you should learn them with guildies in voice. Even if they don't know them yet, because yes, it is a known fact that pugging vet dlc is a harsh thing, and needs at least one if not two members that know what they are doing to pass them well.

5. So other than dying. And dying. And dying. There is no other way to pass vet dlc. You, the people that are complaining, are totally right. DLC vet dungeons are totally challenging. and even if it feels like rng hates you and that you got wiped because of stupid random one shot mechanic, some people don't die from them that often or at all. It means you can get used to them too.

6. Please. If you pug those things. And you don't know mechanics. Say so in chat. If they plan on kicking those who don't know anyway, you will be kicked later on anyway. Better save wipes and frustration from people that are willing to stay and explain them. I called a guy an idiot because he lied about knowing mechanics. And then explained them. Finished the dungeon.

7. Some people don't have maelstrom weapons because they didn't manage to complete it. Those that are determined enough have them. Same with vet dlc dungeons. True, they are not easy. True they can be frustrating on your first run. But I almost managed to do no death in vSCP while the tank was there first time as tank and we were 3 dd's. Randomly. No plans on it what's so ever. Still was a speed run. (Death was one of the easier mechanics, the tank forgot to run to shield after Ice dudes). And one of the members were a dd which is afraid of this content like beast from fire. He thinks he plays bad and had barely 22k DPS when I started running vSCP with him (after making him punch a dummy for a while he is very happy with his growing damage on stamsorc without maelstrom bow, altmer, 32k and growing). And now he happily joins if I need some more hands. Honestly? If he can? Everyone can. Because he is one of those who complain it is to hard. He is one of those who are afraid of dying and don't want to pull the team back with "lack of skill". Also run it with NB tank 300 cp lady that has left our guild for some reason (still heartbroken, need more main tanks in my guild). I don't remember any wipes. Probably because was long ago, but 100% not more than 3 wipes. All of number 7, is connected back to numbers 1 2 and 3. It is possible. For those who try enough. Yes. It is end game content.

I mean. For all those who knows undertale. For some things. You gotta have DETERMINATION. So please. Next time you see l2p or git gud, don't take it as an insult. Either you have the determination and possibility to do it (old age and some extreme health problems are the only thing that comes to mind that can stop you from managing with determination). Or you don't try enough. And don't plan to.

PS: ye I got kicked from some vet dlc dungeons for saying "hey guys I don't know mechanics so please explain them before bosses", but some runs people explained and helped, and it was fun! Never again am I tanking vet dlc dungeons with 999 ping spikes though, vMoS . (And yes, still passed it, and I was the tank)

I'm a firm believer that you SHOULDN'T even attempt to queue for ANY vDLC dungeons unless you have read a breif overview of the mechanics. Why should the rest of the group suffer because you're a selfish prick (not you OP, the people within the context of this discussion)?

This. I have done only a couple vet dlc so far but I always briefly read about mechanics and then do 1-2 runs in normal mode before stepping into vet versions.
Otherwise that would be a complete disrespect towards the group.

This, vet dlc is an level above standard vet the same way vet is above normal.
Main issue is that they take time to learn. cleared falckreach hold day after release on guild run who was planned as normal but ended vet by mistake. We decided to give it an go. First bosses went down well so we pushed on, got to last boss and struggled for two hours before taking him down. Group dps was 40k.
CoS with an cp180 tank. HM as tank did not know that the button was

Overall group was better however.

Now no pug will spend hours trying to clear an dungeon as its no reason for any to stay.
In an guild group it is. Back after launch I spent 5 hours in Fungal 2 then it was just vet fungal.

Reistr_the_Unbroken · February 2019

Zathras wrote: »

zvavi wrote: »

Next time you see l2p or git gud, don't take it as an insult.

Thing is, it is almost always meant as a dismissive insult.

I read your entire post, and I agree (mostly) with what you are saying, aside from the above.

See, there are more constructive ways to convey to someone that they should improve. The best way is to show them, to take the time and do some mentoring. While that is more applicable for guilds, it does rarely happen in pugs by the more patient and extraordinary players. The next best way is to tell them, in voice chat or text, a way they can make the encounter better, or improve themselves in some way.

Do you know what "Git gud" and "L2P" do to someone who is new, or learning, or wanting to improve? It shuts them down. It is a deterrent, and they become less inclined to do that content again, let alone putting themselves out there to be social. Check out the ESO Reddit, and you'll come across multitudes of stories of people who were genuinely emotionally affected by this happening to them.

Yes, work towards your goals. Yes, accept that you will be defeated. But, making a lengthy post that buffers the message that "Git Gud" and "L2P" aren't negative messages? That they are positive, and incentives to improve yourself? Sorry man. I honestly do hear what you are saying, that you feel you are communicating helpful information, but you aren't.

Being on the receiving end of one of those comments isn't enlightening. It doesn't spur on a drive towards greatness. It makes you want to log out of the game and take a break.

This 100% ^^^

AbysmalGhul · February 2019

Shardaxx wrote: »

Arunei wrote: »

So someone tell me how people are supposed to grow and get better as players like they keep getting told to do, if no one actually takes the time to explain things to them or give them the chance to GET the experience everyone keeps telling them they need to get?

The elitists don't care. They will run these dungeons as soon as they come out, learn the mechanics, finish it on vet, and then belittle anyone who isn't as dedicated as them. That's why they do what they do - to feel superior.

I've never run into that kind of behavior from people that have finished harder content before. I find that a good deal of end gamers/DLC dungeon dwellers/skin chasers are more than eager to help others out. (PS4) Doesn't mean it doesn't happen, but I've never seen it before.

What I find more common is clueless or misinformed people in Vet Dlc dungeons being the most toxic or the biggest A-holes around. An example would be the group or tank being blamed for their mistakes such as standing in the red, not following or knowing the mechanics. You can spot a person who doesn't mechanics and when you politely tell them which mechanics to watch out for, they will freak out and talk trash/mock you or throw out the fact that they have higher CP than you.....etc etc etc.

And yes, you have to dedicate a little time in becoming better at something. If you aren't willing to improve, take advice, or follow easy call-outs/instructions, then you have no reason to whine, complain, or belittle others trying to help you.

OneKhajiitCrimeWave · February 2019

See, I am lucky. Through either good choices or whatever i ended up with a group that accepts my crazy nature and are probably as crazy as i am.

On PTS we went straight in on vet Frostvault, because norms rarely teach enough to be valid. Smashed the 1st boss, wiped a couple times second boss, wiped more 3rd boss....

We had to stop run 1 at the 4th boss.

Run 2 we died some more, learned some more and called it on the last boss as i had work the following morning.

And in there each time, even though we were dying and learning, it was a blast.

Going in blind and figuring out the mechs and strategies to beat it is among the most fun i have on this game.

I don't understand when people watch lots of vids of it and read the mechs beforehand as i feel it ruins the experience. But people find enjoyment in their own ways i suppose.

If people find ways to do what they want to achieve in the game (without exploits/cheating etc) then more power to them. Be that vet completion, trials, Emp in PvP, flawless conqueror etc.

When we know the mechs and can teach them, then we do. But we take them in for the experience so they learn as they go or they die, and then learn.

karekiz · February 2019

LordTareq wrote: »

#3. Most of the better sets drop from them. Considering #1 and #2 I obviously dislike this.
#4. They actually do progress a story, which I kinda would like to experience. But can't.

3. - Exactly what sets are "better" exactly from DLC dungeons?
4. - You can, you choose not to.

zvavi · February 2019

Shardaxx wrote: »

The elitists don't care. They will run these dungeons as soon as they come out, learn the mechanics, finish it on vet, and then belittle anyone who isn't as dedicated as them. That's why they do what they do - to feel superior.

I am sorry that my post has made you feel like I am an elitist belittling you. And so did all the following "elitist" comments of people that worked hard to do the dlc dungeons and encouraged other people to do so as well in their own guilds.

AbysmalGhul wrote: »

What I find more common is clueless or misinformed people in Vet Dlc dungeons being the most toxic or the biggest A-holes around. An example would be the group or tank being blamed for their mistakes such as standing in the red, not following or knowing the mechanics. You can spot a person who doesn't mechanics and when you politely tell them which mechanics to watch out for, they will freak out and talk trash/mock you or throw out the fact that they have higher CP than you.....etc etc etc.

That... Is so true... I had two dd's that left the group when I was tanking because they couldn't do mechanics and blamed everyone else (again, scalecaller peak) they wouldn't even stand inside of the antidote on the antidote boss and kept saying "we know mechanics". Even after the dungeon when I told them again "guys u gotta learn mechanics" they kept saying that they do know them (after I requeued I got them again, this time they died less, maybe the healer managed to heal the mess they made). And a tank that couldnt survive taunting gragoil boss, and raged at the healer for it. If those are "elites", I gotta tell all of you something. Those people are worse than pugs in the aspect that they don't learn. Ever. And they are also the people that create the "toxic elitists" feeling you have

Nerouyn · February 2019

You make some good points but get this horribly wrong.

zvavi wrote: »

4. For dungeons you do first time, you should learn them with guildies in voice. Even if they don't know them yet, because yes, it is a known fact that pugging vet dlc is a harsh thing, and needs at least one if not two members that know what they are doing to pass them well.

With the ESO plus free trial running I decided to queue for the 2 required for the Nord manor.

I've done many vet dungeons before, usually during the end of year dungeon event. ALL pugged.

Not harsh at all. Almost always a roflstomping cakewalk.

Not this one though. The typically artificial mechanics you find in dungeons were ramped up and the boss definitely hit harder.

The biggest hits I'd seen in other vet dungeons was about 13k raw. This boss was hitting for 17k through blocking. For my magicka character - even with +health food - that left me with almost no health.

That's a quantum leap in difficulty.

The error here is ZOs.

Obviously over time as CPs crept ever higher new dungeons have been rolled out with increased difficulty. But there's no indication of that in the dungeon queue and there's no reason players would expect to experience this.

It's bad business. The purpose of the free trial is to encourage players to subscribe. Presently apart from costume dying and the craft bag, access to these dungeons is all you get from the subscription. If players try them and get their arse royally handed to them, unless they're masochists they're probably not going to hand over any money.

And serves them right for locking a house behind a DLC dungeon achievement. If not for that many probably wouldn't have even tried these. I wouldn't have. If I ever played long or seriously enough to bother with them I'd have worked my way through the dungeons in story / release order and so wouldn't have experience this quantum leap in difficulty.

zvavi · February 2019

@Nerouyn I said "vet dlc is harsh". Not "vet". Most vet in the game is a joke you can run with 4 dd's. The whole post was about vet DLC dungeons.

witchdoctor · February 2019

Arunei wrote: »

Billdor wrote: »

zvavi wrote: »

Ok. So I read a lot of complaints about dlc dungeons being too hard by some players. And git gud comments from others. I wanted to express my opinion on it.

1. The git good comment. A lot of those that are using l2p and git good comments are people that have gone through many wipes in vet dlc dungeons. Many. The git gud comment usually don't come from "you don't know how to play" but from the understanding, that those dungeons need hard work and determination to complete. That you need to go in there and learn mechanics and die. Die. Die. Die.

2. First time I tanked vSCP, I got killed. Again. And again. And again. It was the dungeon that thought me that I need to learn to tank, asap. It was hard and challenging, and to be honest? I am happy it was not a pug group. Second time it was a pug group, still passed it.

3. After doing it many times. Mostly pugging it. Most of the runs end up with us finishing the dungeon. I had runs with people that didn't know mechanics and couldn't understand English well. 3 of those who were there first time. Dd's with barely 30k DPS combined. Last boss runs when I ended up the only person alive few times during the fight that we passed. (I usually tank it when I pug because hardest role imo). I never kicked a person. Nor did I quit. All mechanics were passable for new players to the dungeon. We managed to pass it. I believe in that statement for most vet dlc content, excluding vFH, but I think it is because I didn't do it enough times. Exclude vWGT too, since you really need either god level coordination or 20k DPS on each dd to be able to do it(with a good tank) or 35k if the tank is lacking.

4. For dungeons you do first time, you should learn them with guildies in voice. Even if they don't know them yet, because yes, it is a known fact that pugging vet dlc is a harsh thing, and needs at least one if not two members that know what they are doing to pass them well.

5. So other than dying. And dying. And dying. There is no other way to pass vet dlc. You, the people that are complaining, are totally right. DLC vet dungeons are totally challenging. and even if it feels like rng hates you and that you got wiped because of stupid random one shot mechanic, some people don't die from them that often or at all. It means you can get used to them too.

6. Please. If you pug those things. And you don't know mechanics. Say so in chat. If they plan on kicking those who don't know anyway, you will be kicked later on anyway. Better save wipes and frustration from people that are willing to stay and explain them. I called a guy an idiot because he lied about knowing mechanics. And then explained them. Finished the dungeon.

7. Some people don't have maelstrom weapons because they didn't manage to complete it. Those that are determined enough have them. Same with vet dlc dungeons. True, they are not easy. True they can be frustrating on your first run. But I almost managed to do no death in vSCP while the tank was there first time as tank and we were 3 dd's. Randomly. No plans on it what's so ever. Still was a speed run. (Death was one of the easier mechanics, the tank forgot to run to shield after Ice dudes). And one of the members were a dd which is afraid of this content like beast from fire. He thinks he plays bad and had barely 22k DPS when I started running vSCP with him (after making him punch a dummy for a while he is very happy with his growing damage on stamsorc without maelstrom bow, altmer, 32k and growing). And now he happily joins if I need some more hands. Honestly? If he can? Everyone can. Because he is one of those who complain it is to hard. He is one of those who are afraid of dying and don't want to pull the team back with "lack of skill". Also run it with NB tank 300 cp lady that has left our guild for some reason (still heartbroken, need more main tanks in my guild). I don't remember any wipes. Probably because was long ago, but 100% not more than 3 wipes. All of number 7, is connected back to numbers 1 2 and 3. It is possible. For those who try enough. Yes. It is end game content.

I mean. For all those who knows undertale. For some things. You gotta have DETERMINATION. So please. Next time you see l2p or git gud, don't take it as an insult. Either you have the determination and possibility to do it (old age and some extreme health problems are the only thing that comes to mind that can stop you from managing with determination). Or you don't try enough. And don't plan to.

PS: ye I got kicked from some vet dlc dungeons for saying "hey guys I don't know mechanics so please explain them before bosses", but some runs people explained and helped, and it was fun! Never again am I tanking vet dlc dungeons with 999 ping spikes though, vMoS . (And yes, still passed it, and I was the tank)

I'm a firm believer that you SHOULDN'T even attempt to queue for ANY vDLC dungeons unless you have read a breif overview of the mechanics. Why should the rest of the group suffer because you're a selfish prick (not you OP, the people within the context of this discussion)?

So people who want to try and do vDLC stuff should just not do it because they might 'make the rest of the group suffer'?

[Snip]

So someone tell me how people are supposed to grow and get better as players like they keep getting told to do, if no one actually takes the time to explain things to them or give them the chance to GET the experience everyone keeps telling them they need to get?

Did you miss where he said get a 'brief overview' first?

A quick Google search, or doing it first on normal would suffice.

If you still have questions, ask. *Most* are happy to answer. But expecting someone to type out a full brief for you is uncalled for, in a vet DLC.

MartiniDaniels · February 2019

Billdor wrote: »

zvavi wrote: »

Ok. So I read a lot of complaints about dlc dungeons being too hard by some players. And git gud comments from others. I wanted to express my opinion on it.

1. The git good comment. A lot of those that are using l2p and git good comments are people that have gone through many wipes in vet dlc dungeons. Many. The git gud comment usually don't come from "you don't know how to play" but from the understanding, that those dungeons need hard work and determination to complete. That you need to go in there and learn mechanics and die. Die. Die. Die.

2. First time I tanked vSCP, I got killed. Again. And again. And again. It was the dungeon that thought me that I need to learn to tank, asap. It was hard and challenging, and to be honest? I am happy it was not a pug group. Second time it was a pug group, still passed it.

3. After doing it many times. Mostly pugging it. Most of the runs end up with us finishing the dungeon. I had runs with people that didn't know mechanics and couldn't understand English well. 3 of those who were there first time. Dd's with barely 30k DPS combined. Last boss runs when I ended up the only person alive few times during the fight that we passed. (I usually tank it when I pug because hardest role imo). I never kicked a person. Nor did I quit. All mechanics were passable for new players to the dungeon. We managed to pass it. I believe in that statement for most vet dlc content, excluding vFH, but I think it is because I didn't do it enough times. Exclude vWGT too, since you really need either god level coordination or 20k DPS on each dd to be able to do it(with a good tank) or 35k if the tank is lacking.

4. For dungeons you do first time, you should learn them with guildies in voice. Even if they don't know them yet, because yes, it is a known fact that pugging vet dlc is a harsh thing, and needs at least one if not two members that know what they are doing to pass them well.

5. So other than dying. And dying. And dying. There is no other way to pass vet dlc. You, the people that are complaining, are totally right. DLC vet dungeons are totally challenging. and even if it feels like rng hates you and that you got wiped because of stupid random one shot mechanic, some people don't die from them that often or at all. It means you can get used to them too.

6. Please. If you pug those things. And you don't know mechanics. Say so in chat. If they plan on kicking those who don't know anyway, you will be kicked later on anyway. Better save wipes and frustration from people that are willing to stay and explain them. I called a guy an idiot because he lied about knowing mechanics. And then explained them. Finished the dungeon.

7. Some people don't have maelstrom weapons because they didn't manage to complete it. Those that are determined enough have them. Same with vet dlc dungeons. True, they are not easy. True they can be frustrating on your first run. But I almost managed to do no death in vSCP while the tank was there first time as tank and we were 3 dd's. Randomly. No plans on it what's so ever. Still was a speed run. (Death was one of the easier mechanics, the tank forgot to run to shield after Ice dudes). And one of the members were a dd which is afraid of this content like beast from fire. He thinks he plays bad and had barely 22k DPS when I started running vSCP with him (after making him punch a dummy for a while he is very happy with his growing damage on stamsorc without maelstrom bow, altmer, 32k and growing). And now he happily joins if I need some more hands. Honestly? If he can? Everyone can. Because he is one of those who complain it is to hard. He is one of those who are afraid of dying and don't want to pull the team back with "lack of skill". Also run it with NB tank 300 cp lady that has left our guild for some reason (still heartbroken, need more main tanks in my guild). I don't remember any wipes. Probably because was long ago, but 100% not more than 3 wipes. All of number 7, is connected back to numbers 1 2 and 3. It is possible. For those who try enough. Yes. It is end game content.

I mean. For all those who knows undertale. For some things. You gotta have DETERMINATION. So please. Next time you see l2p or git gud, don't take it as an insult. Either you have the determination and possibility to do it (old age and some extreme health problems are the only thing that comes to mind that can stop you from managing with determination). Or you don't try enough. And don't plan to.

PS: ye I got kicked from some vet dlc dungeons for saying "hey guys I don't know mechanics so please explain them before bosses", but some runs people explained and helped, and it was fun! Never again am I tanking vet dlc dungeons with 999 ping spikes though, vMoS . (And yes, still passed it, and I was the tank)

I'm a firm believer that you SHOULDN'T even attempt to queue for ANY vDLC dungeons unless you have read a breif overview of the mechanics. Why should the rest of the group suffer because you're a selfish prick (not you OP, the people within the context of this discussion)?

I'm a firm believer person SHOULDN'T even attempt to queue for any vDLC until his/her dummy dps is at least 25k. For example today is a day of free ESO+ so dlc vets are overflowing with people "new" to those DLCs but experienced in the game. I (as tank) met couple of guys who doesn't know a heck about vFL mechanics, but after some explanations we completed it just fine cause group dps was ok (~50k on boss like Ulfnor) and mechanics a-la destroy that relic, kill that crystal, focus shalk were performed without much problems.
And quite opposite I have couple of runs where people knew mechanics but dps was insufficient, so we can't pass dps checks and that is wipe after wipe and people are trying to workaround their low dps somehow like separate boss killing at stages, gather behind one pillar in vFH and so on.. yes, it's clever to gather behind one pillar, but when low dps left and some good came in replacement, Domihaus died in couple of minutes from first try and zero dead people.
Though I play all roles, mostly I play as tank and I'll say for sure that it is not mechanics that make dlc vet hard.. it's insufficient group dps is reason in 90% of cases.. and i won't blame players, it's ZOS to blame since there is no any in game explanation or content which will teach people how to build to do damage, and 25k is simply dots with weaving, no excessive animation cancelling required.

Nerouyn · February 2019

zvavi wrote: »

@Nerouyn I said "vet dlc is harsh". Not "vet". Most vet in the game is a joke you can run with 4 dd's. The whole post was about vet DLC dungeons.

No that's not what you said.

zvavi wrote: »

4. For dungeons you do first time, you should learn them with guildies in voice. Even if they don't know them yet, because yes, it is a known fact that pugging vet dlc is a harsh thing, and needs at least one if not two members that know what they are doing to pass them well.

My point was that IT IS NOT KNOWN.

Maybe you know it. Maybe other ZO dungeon bunnies know it.

People doing DLC dungeons during one of the free trials have probably only ever done the non DLC dungeons and those are epic cakewalks.

That's what they know.

There is NO indication in the group finder indicating that the DLC dungeons are harder and that's the only way players most players would come to know that, short of stepping inside and having their arse handed to them.

lokulin · February 2019

Billdor wrote: »

zvavi wrote: »

Ok. So I read a lot of complaints about dlc dungeons being too hard by some players. And git gud comments from others. I wanted to express my opinion on it.

1. The git good comment. A lot of those that are using l2p and git good comments are people that have gone through many wipes in vet dlc dungeons. Many. The git gud comment usually don't come from "you don't know how to play" but from the understanding, that those dungeons need hard work and determination to complete. That you need to go in there and learn mechanics and die. Die. Die. Die.

2. First time I tanked vSCP, I got killed. Again. And again. And again. It was the dungeon that thought me that I need to learn to tank, asap. It was hard and challenging, and to be honest? I am happy it was not a pug group. Second time it was a pug group, still passed it.

3. After doing it many times. Mostly pugging it. Most of the runs end up with us finishing the dungeon. I had runs with people that didn't know mechanics and couldn't understand English well. 3 of those who were there first time. Dd's with barely 30k DPS combined. Last boss runs when I ended up the only person alive few times during the fight that we passed. (I usually tank it when I pug because hardest role imo). I never kicked a person. Nor did I quit. All mechanics were passable for new players to the dungeon. We managed to pass it. I believe in that statement for most vet dlc content, excluding vFH, but I think it is because I didn't do it enough times. Exclude vWGT too, since you really need either god level coordination or 20k DPS on each dd to be able to do it(with a good tank) or 35k if the tank is lacking.

4. For dungeons you do first time, you should learn them with guildies in voice. Even if they don't know them yet, because yes, it is a known fact that pugging vet dlc is a harsh thing, and needs at least one if not two members that know what they are doing to pass them well.

5. So other than dying. And dying. And dying. There is no other way to pass vet dlc. You, the people that are complaining, are totally right. DLC vet dungeons are totally challenging. and even if it feels like rng hates you and that you got wiped because of stupid random one shot mechanic, some people don't die from them that often or at all. It means you can get used to them too.

6. Please. If you pug those things. And you don't know mechanics. Say so in chat. If they plan on kicking those who don't know anyway, you will be kicked later on anyway. Better save wipes and frustration from people that are willing to stay and explain them. I called a guy an idiot because he lied about knowing mechanics. And then explained them. Finished the dungeon.

7. Some people don't have maelstrom weapons because they didn't manage to complete it. Those that are determined enough have them. Same with vet dlc dungeons. True, they are not easy. True they can be frustrating on your first run. But I almost managed to do no death in vSCP while the tank was there first time as tank and we were 3 dd's. Randomly. No plans on it what's so ever. Still was a speed run. (Death was one of the easier mechanics, the tank forgot to run to shield after Ice dudes). And one of the members were a dd which is afraid of this content like beast from fire. He thinks he plays bad and had barely 22k DPS when I started running vSCP with him (after making him punch a dummy for a while he is very happy with his growing damage on stamsorc without maelstrom bow, altmer, 32k and growing). And now he happily joins if I need some more hands. Honestly? If he can? Everyone can. Because he is one of those who complain it is to hard. He is one of those who are afraid of dying and don't want to pull the team back with "lack of skill". Also run it with NB tank 300 cp lady that has left our guild for some reason (still heartbroken, need more main tanks in my guild). I don't remember any wipes. Probably because was long ago, but 100% not more than 3 wipes. All of number 7, is connected back to numbers 1 2 and 3. It is possible. For those who try enough. Yes. It is end game content.

I mean. For all those who knows undertale. For some things. You gotta have DETERMINATION. So please. Next time you see l2p or git gud, don't take it as an insult. Either you have the determination and possibility to do it (old age and some extreme health problems are the only thing that comes to mind that can stop you from managing with determination). Or you don't try enough. And don't plan to.

PS: ye I got kicked from some vet dlc dungeons for saying "hey guys I don't know mechanics so please explain them before bosses", but some runs people explained and helped, and it was fun! Never again am I tanking vet dlc dungeons with 999 ping spikes though, vMoS . (And yes, still passed it, and I was the tank)

I'm a firm believer that you SHOULDN'T even attempt to queue for ANY vDLC dungeons unless you have read a breif overview of the mechanics. Why should the rest of the group suffer because you're a selfish prick (not you OP, the people within the context of this discussion)?

See, some of us come from a time where you played a game to figure it out yourself. Pre-internet dark ages. Reading a guide takes away some of the fun. In the old days looking things up was called cheating. If you need to read a guide to finish a game something is wrong with the game design.

witchdoctor · February 2019

lokulin wrote: »

Billdor wrote: »

zvavi wrote: »

Ok. So I read a lot of complaints about dlc dungeons being too hard by some players. And git gud comments from others. I wanted to express my opinion on it.

1. The git good comment. A lot of those that are using l2p and git good comments are people that have gone through many wipes in vet dlc dungeons. Many. The git gud comment usually don't come from "you don't know how to play" but from the understanding, that those dungeons need hard work and determination to complete. That you need to go in there and learn mechanics and die. Die. Die. Die.

2. First time I tanked vSCP, I got killed. Again. And again. And again. It was the dungeon that thought me that I need to learn to tank, asap. It was hard and challenging, and to be honest? I am happy it was not a pug group. Second time it was a pug group, still passed it.

3. After doing it many times. Mostly pugging it. Most of the runs end up with us finishing the dungeon. I had runs with people that didn't know mechanics and couldn't understand English well. 3 of those who were there first time. Dd's with barely 30k DPS combined. Last boss runs when I ended up the only person alive few times during the fight that we passed. (I usually tank it when I pug because hardest role imo). I never kicked a person. Nor did I quit. All mechanics were passable for new players to the dungeon. We managed to pass it. I believe in that statement for most vet dlc content, excluding vFH, but I think it is because I didn't do it enough times. Exclude vWGT too, since you really need either god level coordination or 20k DPS on each dd to be able to do it(with a good tank) or 35k if the tank is lacking.

4. For dungeons you do first time, you should learn them with guildies in voice. Even if they don't know them yet, because yes, it is a known fact that pugging vet dlc is a harsh thing, and needs at least one if not two members that know what they are doing to pass them well.

5. So other than dying. And dying. And dying. There is no other way to pass vet dlc. You, the people that are complaining, are totally right. DLC vet dungeons are totally challenging. and even if it feels like rng hates you and that you got wiped because of stupid random one shot mechanic, some people don't die from them that often or at all. It means you can get used to them too.

6. Please. If you pug those things. And you don't know mechanics. Say so in chat. If they plan on kicking those who don't know anyway, you will be kicked later on anyway. Better save wipes and frustration from people that are willing to stay and explain them. I called a guy an idiot because he lied about knowing mechanics. And then explained them. Finished the dungeon.

7. Some people don't have maelstrom weapons because they didn't manage to complete it. Those that are determined enough have them. Same with vet dlc dungeons. True, they are not easy. True they can be frustrating on your first run. But I almost managed to do no death in vSCP while the tank was there first time as tank and we were 3 dd's. Randomly. No plans on it what's so ever. Still was a speed run. (Death was one of the easier mechanics, the tank forgot to run to shield after Ice dudes). And one of the members were a dd which is afraid of this content like beast from fire. He thinks he plays bad and had barely 22k DPS when I started running vSCP with him (after making him punch a dummy for a while he is very happy with his growing damage on stamsorc without maelstrom bow, altmer, 32k and growing). And now he happily joins if I need some more hands. Honestly? If he can? Everyone can. Because he is one of those who complain it is to hard. He is one of those who are afraid of dying and don't want to pull the team back with "lack of skill". Also run it with NB tank 300 cp lady that has left our guild for some reason (still heartbroken, need more main tanks in my guild). I don't remember any wipes. Probably because was long ago, but 100% not more than 3 wipes. All of number 7, is connected back to numbers 1 2 and 3. It is possible. For those who try enough. Yes. It is end game content.

I mean. For all those who knows undertale. For some things. You gotta have DETERMINATION. So please. Next time you see l2p or git gud, don't take it as an insult. Either you have the determination and possibility to do it (old age and some extreme health problems are the only thing that comes to mind that can stop you from managing with determination). Or you don't try enough. And don't plan to.

PS: ye I got kicked from some vet dlc dungeons for saying "hey guys I don't know mechanics so please explain them before bosses", but some runs people explained and helped, and it was fun! Never again am I tanking vet dlc dungeons with 999 ping spikes though, vMoS . (And yes, still passed it, and I was the tank)

I'm a firm believer that you SHOULDN'T even attempt to queue for ANY vDLC dungeons unless you have read a breif overview of the mechanics. Why should the rest of the group suffer because you're a selfish prick (not you OP, the people within the context of this discussion)?

See, some of us come from a time where you played a game to figure it out yourself. Pre-internet dark ages. Reading a guide takes away some of the fun. In the old days looking things up was called cheating. If you need to read a guide to finish a game something is wrong with the game design.

Like they say, times change.

Reistr_the_Unbroken · February 2019

Nerouyn wrote: »

zvavi wrote: »

@Nerouyn I said "vet dlc is harsh". Not "vet". Most vet in the game is a joke you can run with 4 dd's. The whole post was about vet DLC dungeons.

No that's not what you said.

zvavi wrote: »

4. For dungeons you do first time, you should learn them with guildies in voice. Even if they don't know them yet, because yes, it is a known fact that pugging vet dlc is a harsh thing, and needs at least one if not two members that know what they are doing to pass them well.

My point was that IT IS NOT KNOWN.

Maybe you know it. Maybe other ZO dungeon bunnies know it.

People doing DLC dungeons during one of the free trials have probably only ever done the non DLC dungeons and those are epic cakewalks.

That's what they know.

There is NO indication in the group finder indicating that the DLC dungeons are harder and that's the only way players most players would come to know that, short of stepping inside and having their arse handed to them.

Idk what you’re reading, but I can CLEARLY SEE "vet DLC"

MartiniDaniels · February 2019

witchdoctor wrote: »

lokulin wrote: »

Billdor wrote: »

zvavi wrote: »

Ok. So I read a lot of complaints about dlc dungeons being too hard by some players. And git gud comments from others. I wanted to express my opinion on it.

1. The git good comment. A lot of those that are using l2p and git good comments are people that have gone through many wipes in vet dlc dungeons. Many. The git gud comment usually don't come from "you don't know how to play" but from the understanding, that those dungeons need hard work and determination to complete. That you need to go in there and learn mechanics and die. Die. Die. Die.

2. First time I tanked vSCP, I got killed. Again. And again. And again. It was the dungeon that thought me that I need to learn to tank, asap. It was hard and challenging, and to be honest? I am happy it was not a pug group. Second time it was a pug group, still passed it.

3. After doing it many times. Mostly pugging it. Most of the runs end up with us finishing the dungeon. I had runs with people that didn't know mechanics and couldn't understand English well. 3 of those who were there first time. Dd's with barely 30k DPS combined. Last boss runs when I ended up the only person alive few times during the fight that we passed. (I usually tank it when I pug because hardest role imo). I never kicked a person. Nor did I quit. All mechanics were passable for new players to the dungeon. We managed to pass it. I believe in that statement for most vet dlc content, excluding vFH, but I think it is because I didn't do it enough times. Exclude vWGT too, since you really need either god level coordination or 20k DPS on each dd to be able to do it(with a good tank) or 35k if the tank is lacking.

4. For dungeons you do first time, you should learn them with guildies in voice. Even if they don't know them yet, because yes, it is a known fact that pugging vet dlc is a harsh thing, and needs at least one if not two members that know what they are doing to pass them well.

5. So other than dying. And dying. And dying. There is no other way to pass vet dlc. You, the people that are complaining, are totally right. DLC vet dungeons are totally challenging. and even if it feels like rng hates you and that you got wiped because of stupid random one shot mechanic, some people don't die from them that often or at all. It means you can get used to them too.

6. Please. If you pug those things. And you don't know mechanics. Say so in chat. If they plan on kicking those who don't know anyway, you will be kicked later on anyway. Better save wipes and frustration from people that are willing to stay and explain them. I called a guy an idiot because he lied about knowing mechanics. And then explained them. Finished the dungeon.

7. Some people don't have maelstrom weapons because they didn't manage to complete it. Those that are determined enough have them. Same with vet dlc dungeons. True, they are not easy. True they can be frustrating on your first run. But I almost managed to do no death in vSCP while the tank was there first time as tank and we were 3 dd's. Randomly. No plans on it what's so ever. Still was a speed run. (Death was one of the easier mechanics, the tank forgot to run to shield after Ice dudes). And one of the members were a dd which is afraid of this content like beast from fire. He thinks he plays bad and had barely 22k DPS when I started running vSCP with him (after making him punch a dummy for a while he is very happy with his growing damage on stamsorc without maelstrom bow, altmer, 32k and growing). And now he happily joins if I need some more hands. Honestly? If he can? Everyone can. Because he is one of those who complain it is to hard. He is one of those who are afraid of dying and don't want to pull the team back with "lack of skill". Also run it with NB tank 300 cp lady that has left our guild for some reason (still heartbroken, need more main tanks in my guild). I don't remember any wipes. Probably because was long ago, but 100% not more than 3 wipes. All of number 7, is connected back to numbers 1 2 and 3. It is possible. For those who try enough. Yes. It is end game content.

I mean. For all those who knows undertale. For some things. You gotta have DETERMINATION. So please. Next time you see l2p or git gud, don't take it as an insult. Either you have the determination and possibility to do it (old age and some extreme health problems are the only thing that comes to mind that can stop you from managing with determination). Or you don't try enough. And don't plan to.

PS: ye I got kicked from some vet dlc dungeons for saying "hey guys I don't know mechanics so please explain them before bosses", but some runs people explained and helped, and it was fun! Never again am I tanking vet dlc dungeons with 999 ping spikes though, vMoS . (And yes, still passed it, and I was the tank)

I'm a firm believer that you SHOULDN'T even attempt to queue for ANY vDLC dungeons unless you have read a breif overview of the mechanics. Why should the rest of the group suffer because you're a selfish prick (not you OP, the people within the context of this discussion)?

See, some of us come from a time where you played a game to figure it out yourself. Pre-internet dark ages. Reading a guide takes away some of the fun. In the old days looking things up was called cheating. If you need to read a guide to finish a game something is wrong with the game design.

Like they say, times change.

It's not like times change, looks like ZOS is simply lazy and delegating their responsibilities to other people, i.e. youtubers and add-on makers. Don't know what to do in dungeon/trial? Go find some youtube guide. Tired of limited UI? Go install addons etc..

AbysmalGhul · February 2019

zvavi wrote: »

Shardaxx wrote: »

The elitists don't care. They will run these dungeons as soon as they come out, learn the mechanics, finish it on vet, and then belittle anyone who isn't as dedicated as them. That's why they do what they do - to feel superior.

I am sorry that my post has made you feel like I am an elitist belittling you. And so did all the following "elitist" comments of people that worked hard to do the dlc dungeons and encouraged other people to do so as well in their own guilds.

AbysmalGhul wrote: »

What I find more common is clueless or misinformed people in Vet Dlc dungeons being the most toxic or the biggest A-holes around. An example would be the group or tank being blamed for their mistakes such as standing in the red, not following or knowing the mechanics. You can spot a person who doesn't mechanics and when you politely tell them which mechanics to watch out for, they will freak out and talk trash/mock you or throw out the fact that they have higher CP than you.....etc etc etc.

That... Is so true... I had two dd's that left the group when I was tanking because they couldn't do mechanics and blamed everyone else (again, scalecaller peak) they wouldn't even stand inside of the antidote on the antidote boss and kept saying "we know mechanics". Even after the dungeon when I told them again "guys u gotta learn mechanics" they kept saying that they do know them (after I requeued I got them again, this time they died less, maybe the healer managed to heal the mess they made). And a tank that couldnt survive taunting gragoil boss, and raged at the healer for it. If those are "elites", I gotta tell all of you something. Those people are worse than pugs in the aspect that they don't learn. Ever. And they are also the people that create the "toxic elitists" feeling you have

Reminds me of a time when I was pugging Arx Corinium. We made it to the snake boss that heals when you step into his red AOE. I was told "Stop attacking scrub! He's sleeping, he'll heal when you hit him" as the guy was standing in the red AOE
healing him as he was typing....or when people don't kill the adds during Urata the Legion fight in COA2 fight and she heals off the remaining adds she spawns " Low dps? Kikk?!!"

I find it funny when people argue with you to the death when it comes to clear cut mechanics you can't bypass any other way.

MLGProPlayer · February 2019

Billdor wrote: »

zvavi wrote: »

Ok. So I read a lot of complaints about dlc dungeons being too hard by some players. And git gud comments from others. I wanted to express my opinion on it.

1. The git good comment. A lot of those that are using l2p and git good comments are people that have gone through many wipes in vet dlc dungeons. Many. The git gud comment usually don't come from "you don't know how to play" but from the understanding, that those dungeons need hard work and determination to complete. That you need to go in there and learn mechanics and die. Die. Die. Die.

2. First time I tanked vSCP, I got killed. Again. And again. And again. It was the dungeon that thought me that I need to learn to tank, asap. It was hard and challenging, and to be honest? I am happy it was not a pug group. Second time it was a pug group, still passed it.

3. After doing it many times. Mostly pugging it. Most of the runs end up with us finishing the dungeon. I had runs with people that didn't know mechanics and couldn't understand English well. 3 of those who were there first time. Dd's with barely 30k DPS combined. Last boss runs when I ended up the only person alive few times during the fight that we passed. (I usually tank it when I pug because hardest role imo). I never kicked a person. Nor did I quit. All mechanics were passable for new players to the dungeon. We managed to pass it. I believe in that statement for most vet dlc content, excluding vFH, but I think it is because I didn't do it enough times. Exclude vWGT too, since you really need either god level coordination or 20k DPS on each dd to be able to do it(with a good tank) or 35k if the tank is lacking.

4. For dungeons you do first time, you should learn them with guildies in voice. Even if they don't know them yet, because yes, it is a known fact that pugging vet dlc is a harsh thing, and needs at least one if not two members that know what they are doing to pass them well.

5. So other than dying. And dying. And dying. There is no other way to pass vet dlc. You, the people that are complaining, are totally right. DLC vet dungeons are totally challenging. and even if it feels like rng hates you and that you got wiped because of stupid random one shot mechanic, some people don't die from them that often or at all. It means you can get used to them too.

6. Please. If you pug those things. And you don't know mechanics. Say so in chat. If they plan on kicking those who don't know anyway, you will be kicked later on anyway. Better save wipes and frustration from people that are willing to stay and explain them. I called a guy an idiot because he lied about knowing mechanics. And then explained them. Finished the dungeon.

7. Some people don't have maelstrom weapons because they didn't manage to complete it. Those that are determined enough have them. Same with vet dlc dungeons. True, they are not easy. True they can be frustrating on your first run. But I almost managed to do no death in vSCP while the tank was there first time as tank and we were 3 dd's. Randomly. No plans on it what's so ever. Still was a speed run. (Death was one of the easier mechanics, the tank forgot to run to shield after Ice dudes). And one of the members were a dd which is afraid of this content like beast from fire. He thinks he plays bad and had barely 22k DPS when I started running vSCP with him (after making him punch a dummy for a while he is very happy with his growing damage on stamsorc without maelstrom bow, altmer, 32k and growing). And now he happily joins if I need some more hands. Honestly? If he can? Everyone can. Because he is one of those who complain it is to hard. He is one of those who are afraid of dying and don't want to pull the team back with "lack of skill". Also run it with NB tank 300 cp lady that has left our guild for some reason (still heartbroken, need more main tanks in my guild). I don't remember any wipes. Probably because was long ago, but 100% not more than 3 wipes. All of number 7, is connected back to numbers 1 2 and 3. It is possible. For those who try enough. Yes. It is end game content.

I mean. For all those who knows undertale. For some things. You gotta have DETERMINATION. So please. Next time you see l2p or git gud, don't take it as an insult. Either you have the determination and possibility to do it (old age and some extreme health problems are the only thing that comes to mind that can stop you from managing with determination). Or you don't try enough. And don't plan to.

PS: ye I got kicked from some vet dlc dungeons for saying "hey guys I don't know mechanics so please explain them before bosses", but some runs people explained and helped, and it was fun! Never again am I tanking vet dlc dungeons with 999 ping spikes though, vMoS . (And yes, still passed it, and I was the tank)

I'm a firm believer that you SHOULDN'T even attempt to queue for ANY vDLC dungeons unless you have read a breif overview of the mechanics. Why should the rest of the group suffer because you're a selfish prick (not you OP, the people within the context of this discussion)?

Nobody should be expected to read anything outside of the game. How do you think these dungeons were completed by the folks who write the guides?

The only requirement should be a willingness to learn.

EpicRekkoning · February 2019

I'm fortunate enough to have a group of friends that I regularly run dungeons with. They put up solid dps numbers and we're at a point where we can somewhat customize our builds around each other to optimize our group. Its fantastic and fun, but I also know rare.

I don't mind the difficulty in the DLC dungeons. I find them fun, challenging, and they keep me looking at how to get better to accomplish them. With that being said, there's, I think there's a few things ZOS can adjust to make DLC dungeons more palatable for most players.

1) There's too much of a difficulty discrepancy between normal and vet DLC dungeons. Im normal mode and at max CP, we can walk through DLC dungeons without thinking too much. However, in the vet mode, you have to be on point to get through the dungeon. Now, I understand that normal modes have to be easy enough for new, lower cp players to accomplish them, but the vet modes, in my opinion, can be too difficult middle tier/cp level players. Even non optimized max CP players can really struggle, especially if they don't know the mechanics. Now any of these people can learn the mechanics, but I think there needs to be a better transition in difficulty between normal and vet modes. I'm not sure what the answer is. Maybe move to a three tier dungeon system or the future changes to CP and the power creep may adjust the high end of the dungeons? But however ZOS needs to get there, I think a better difficulty transition will help players better prepare for the vet and hard modes.

2) Many of the DLC vet dungeons rely on one shot mechanics that can be almost impossible at times to get around because of bad RNG with other elements with the fights. The first, non-dlc dungeons in this game did not rely on one shot mechanics or RNG to beat. They relied on coordination, timing, proper builds, and at times, some luck. My most enjoyable dungeons runs were early when we had the VR rankings, struggling to beat vet City of Ash 2 (those were the days when monster helms didn't always drop and you were lucky if 2 players got one per run). Although I've really enjoyed the dlc content, the more recent dungeons don't have that same feel.

Now I'm not sure what the answer is for future DLCs. I do believe if ZOS fixes the power creep issues with CP, they'll have the ability to re-address some of these challenges from the difficulty discrepancies.

I want to add this, if you know the mechanics, don't be afraid to teach someone. I've had many pugs where people didn't know and were afraid to ask. As soon as I got on the mic and explained what to do, we advanced and completed the dungeon. And if you don't know the mechanics, ask for an explanation and please be open to listening and leaving your ego behind. The most frustrating thing when trying to explain mechanics is someone that won't listen or try new things.

Great topic and great information here.

Agenericname · February 2019

Arunei wrote: »

Billdor wrote: »

zvavi wrote: »

Ok. So I read a lot of complaints about dlc dungeons being too hard by some players. And git gud comments from others. I wanted to express my opinion on it.

1. The git good comment. A lot of those that are using l2p and git good comments are people that have gone through many wipes in vet dlc dungeons. Many. The git gud comment usually don't come from "you don't know how to play" but from the understanding, that those dungeons need hard work and determination to complete. That you need to go in there and learn mechanics and die. Die. Die. Die.

2. First time I tanked vSCP, I got killed. Again. And again. And again. It was the dungeon that thought me that I need to learn to tank, asap. It was hard and challenging, and to be honest? I am happy it was not a pug group. Second time it was a pug group, still passed it.

3. After doing it many times. Mostly pugging it. Most of the runs end up with us finishing the dungeon. I had runs with people that didn't know mechanics and couldn't understand English well. 3 of those who were there first time. Dd's with barely 30k DPS combined. Last boss runs when I ended up the only person alive few times during the fight that we passed. (I usually tank it when I pug because hardest role imo). I never kicked a person. Nor did I quit. All mechanics were passable for new players to the dungeon. We managed to pass it. I believe in that statement for most vet dlc content, excluding vFH, but I think it is because I didn't do it enough times. Exclude vWGT too, since you really need either god level coordination or 20k DPS on each dd to be able to do it(with a good tank) or 35k if the tank is lacking.

4. For dungeons you do first time, you should learn them with guildies in voice. Even if they don't know them yet, because yes, it is a known fact that pugging vet dlc is a harsh thing, and needs at least one if not two members that know what they are doing to pass them well.

5. So other than dying. And dying. And dying. There is no other way to pass vet dlc. You, the people that are complaining, are totally right. DLC vet dungeons are totally challenging. and even if it feels like rng hates you and that you got wiped because of stupid random one shot mechanic, some people don't die from them that often or at all. It means you can get used to them too.

6. Please. If you pug those things. And you don't know mechanics. Say so in chat. If they plan on kicking those who don't know anyway, you will be kicked later on anyway. Better save wipes and frustration from people that are willing to stay and explain them. I called a guy an idiot because he lied about knowing mechanics. And then explained them. Finished the dungeon.

7. Some people don't have maelstrom weapons because they didn't manage to complete it. Those that are determined enough have them. Same with vet dlc dungeons. True, they are not easy. True they can be frustrating on your first run. But I almost managed to do no death in vSCP while the tank was there first time as tank and we were 3 dd's. Randomly. No plans on it what's so ever. Still was a speed run. (Death was one of the easier mechanics, the tank forgot to run to shield after Ice dudes). And one of the members were a dd which is afraid of this content like beast from fire. He thinks he plays bad and had barely 22k DPS when I started running vSCP with him (after making him punch a dummy for a while he is very happy with his growing damage on stamsorc without maelstrom bow, altmer, 32k and growing). And now he happily joins if I need some more hands. Honestly? If he can? Everyone can. Because he is one of those who complain it is to hard. He is one of those who are afraid of dying and don't want to pull the team back with "lack of skill". Also run it with NB tank 300 cp lady that has left our guild for some reason (still heartbroken, need more main tanks in my guild). I don't remember any wipes. Probably because was long ago, but 100% not more than 3 wipes. All of number 7, is connected back to numbers 1 2 and 3. It is possible. For those who try enough. Yes. It is end game content.

I mean. For all those who knows undertale. For some things. You gotta have DETERMINATION. So please. Next time you see l2p or git gud, don't take it as an insult. Either you have the determination and possibility to do it (old age and some extreme health problems are the only thing that comes to mind that can stop you from managing with determination). Or you don't try enough. And don't plan to.

PS: ye I got kicked from some vet dlc dungeons for saying "hey guys I don't know mechanics so please explain them before bosses", but some runs people explained and helped, and it was fun! Never again am I tanking vet dlc dungeons with 999 ping spikes though, vMoS . (And yes, still passed it, and I was the tank)

I'm a firm believer that you SHOULDN'T even attempt to queue for ANY vDLC dungeons unless you have read a breif overview of the mechanics. Why should the rest of the group suffer because you're a selfish prick (not you OP, the people within the context of this discussion)?

So people who want to try and do vDLC stuff should just not do it because they might 'make the rest of the group suffer'? This is part of the mentality that makes people not even bother with trying harder content. Just because someone can't fly through more challenging dungeons doesn't mean they should be excluded from content they want to try. You can read and watch all the guides on any given content you want, that doesn't mean jack squat when it comes to doing the content itself. The only way you get good at these things is by experiencing them and actually adapting your play style to take on whatever particular thing you're doing.

This is what I don't get. People are constantly being told to 'get good', to 'learn to play', being told they're just making excuses for not trying harder content and that they're crybabies or carebears. But then there are people like this who turn around and blanket term everyone who's not familiar with harder content as people wanting carries, as selfish players who can't contribute to a group. Low CP players get kicked from groups before they can even prove whether or not they have the ability to complete any given dungeons.

So someone tell me how people are supposed to grow and get better as players like they keep getting told to do, if no one actually takes the time to explain things to them or give them the chance to GET the experience everyone keeps telling them they need to get?

My experience in the vet DLC dungeons has been that people are usually more willing to explain the mechanics. This is likely due to fact that in many cases they will need to know them in order for the group to progress.

I've never actually seen anyone kicked from vet DLC for stating that they didn't know the mechanics.

Every single time I've asked or stated that I didn't know the mechanics, someone has explained them.

If I used the forums as a gauge for what the dungeons are really like, I'd never go. Fortunately they're nothing like it.

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO · February 2019

Wifeaggro13 wrote: »

zvavi wrote: »

Ok. So I read a lot of complaints about dlc dungeons being too hard by some players. And git gud comments from others. I wanted to express my opinion on it.

1. The git good comment. A lot of those that are using l2p and git good comments are people that have gone through many wipes in vet dlc dungeons. Many. The git gud comment usually don't come from "you don't know how to play" but from the understanding, that those dungeons need hard work and determination to complete. That you need to go in there and learn mechanics and die. Die. Die. Die.

2. First time I tanked vSCP, I got killed. Again. And again. And again. It was the dungeon that thought me that I need to learn to tank, asap. It was hard and challenging, and to be honest? I am happy it was not a pug group. Second time it was a pug group, still passed it.

3. After doing it many times. Mostly pugging it. Most of the runs end up with us finishing the dungeon. I had runs with people that didn't know mechanics and couldn't understand English well. 3 of those who were there first time. Dd's with barely 30k DPS combined. Last boss runs when I ended up the only person alive few times during the fight that we passed. (I usually tank it when I pug because hardest role imo). I never kicked a person. Nor did I quit. All mechanics were passable for new players to the dungeon. We managed to pass it. I believe in that statement for most vet dlc content, excluding vFH, but I think it is because I didn't do it enough times. Exclude vWGT too, since you really need either god level coordination or 20k DPS on each dd to be able to do it(with a good tank) or 35k if the tank is lacking.

4. For dungeons you do first time, you should learn them with guildies in voice. Even if they don't know them yet, because yes, it is a known fact that pugging vet dlc is a harsh thing, and needs at least one if not two members that know what they are doing to pass them well.

5. So other than dying. And dying. And dying. There is no other way to pass vet dlc. You, the people that are complaining, are totally right. DLC vet dungeons are totally challenging. and even if it feels like rng hates you and that you got wiped because of stupid random one shot mechanic, some people don't die from them that often or at all. It means you can get used to them too.

6. Please. If you pug those things. And you don't know mechanics. Say so in chat. If they plan on kicking those who don't know anyway, you will be kicked later on anyway. Better save wipes and frustration from people that are willing to stay and explain them. I called a guy an idiot because he lied about knowing mechanics. And then explained them. Finished the dungeon.

7. Some people don't have maelstrom weapons because they didn't manage to complete it. Those that are determined enough have them. Same with vet dlc dungeons. True, they are not easy. True they can be frustrating on your first run. But I almost managed to do no death in vSCP while the tank was there first time as tank and we were 3 dd's. Randomly. No plans on it what's so ever. Still was a speed run. (Death was one of the easier mechanics, the tank forgot to run to shield after Ice dudes). And one of the members were a dd which is afraid of this content like beast from fire. He thinks he plays bad and had barely 22k DPS when I started running vSCP with him (after making him punch a dummy for a while he is very happy with his growing damage on stamsorc without maelstrom bow, altmer, 32k and growing). And now he happily joins if I need some more hands. Honestly? If he can? Everyone can. Because he is one of those who complain it is to hard. He is one of those who are afraid of dying and don't want to pull the team back with "lack of skill". Also run it with NB tank 300 cp lady that has left our guild for some reason (still heartbroken, need more main tanks in my guild). I don't remember any wipes. Probably because was long ago, but 100% not more than 3 wipes. All of number 7, is connected back to numbers 1 2 and 3. It is possible. For those who try enough. Yes. It is end game content.

I mean. For all those who knows undertale. For some things. You gotta have DETERMINATION. So please. Next time you see l2p or git gud, don't take it as an insult. Either you have the determination and possibility to do it (old age and some extreme health problems are the only thing that comes to mind that can stop you from managing with determination). Or you don't try enough. And don't plan to.

PS: ye I got kicked from some vet dlc dungeons for saying "hey guys I don't know mechanics so please explain them before bosses", but some runs people explained and helped, and it was fun! Never again am I tanking vet dlc dungeons with 999 ping spikes though, vMoS . (And yes, still passed it, and I was the tank)

participation trophies are to blame it taught a whole genration it does not matter if you win or lose just show up and stand there and you will be rewarded

Do you forget what is the generation that gave out those participation trophys?

Jhalin · February 2019

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

Wifeaggro13 wrote: »

zvavi wrote: »

Ok. So I read a lot of complaints about dlc dungeons being too hard by some players. And git gud comments from others. I wanted to express my opinion on it.

1. The git good comment. A lot of those that are using l2p and git good comments are people that have gone through many wipes in vet dlc dungeons. Many. The git gud comment usually don't come from "you don't know how to play" but from the understanding, that those dungeons need hard work and determination to complete. That you need to go in there and learn mechanics and die. Die. Die. Die.

2. First time I tanked vSCP, I got killed. Again. And again. And again. It was the dungeon that thought me that I need to learn to tank, asap. It was hard and challenging, and to be honest? I am happy it was not a pug group. Second time it was a pug group, still passed it.

3. After doing it many times. Mostly pugging it. Most of the runs end up with us finishing the dungeon. I had runs with people that didn't know mechanics and couldn't understand English well. 3 of those who were there first time. Dd's with barely 30k DPS combined. Last boss runs when I ended up the only person alive few times during the fight that we passed. (I usually tank it when I pug because hardest role imo). I never kicked a person. Nor did I quit. All mechanics were passable for new players to the dungeon. We managed to pass it. I believe in that statement for most vet dlc content, excluding vFH, but I think it is because I didn't do it enough times. Exclude vWGT too, since you really need either god level coordination or 20k DPS on each dd to be able to do it(with a good tank) or 35k if the tank is lacking.

4. For dungeons you do first time, you should learn them with guildies in voice. Even if they don't know them yet, because yes, it is a known fact that pugging vet dlc is a harsh thing, and needs at least one if not two members that know what they are doing to pass them well.

5. So other than dying. And dying. And dying. There is no other way to pass vet dlc. You, the people that are complaining, are totally right. DLC vet dungeons are totally challenging. and even if it feels like rng hates you and that you got wiped because of stupid random one shot mechanic, some people don't die from them that often or at all. It means you can get used to them too.

6. Please. If you pug those things. And you don't know mechanics. Say so in chat. If they plan on kicking those who don't know anyway, you will be kicked later on anyway. Better save wipes and frustration from people that are willing to stay and explain them. I called a guy an idiot because he lied about knowing mechanics. And then explained them. Finished the dungeon.

7. Some people don't have maelstrom weapons because they didn't manage to complete it. Those that are determined enough have them. Same with vet dlc dungeons. True, they are not easy. True they can be frustrating on your first run. But I almost managed to do no death in vSCP while the tank was there first time as tank and we were 3 dd's. Randomly. No plans on it what's so ever. Still was a speed run. (Death was one of the easier mechanics, the tank forgot to run to shield after Ice dudes). And one of the members were a dd which is afraid of this content like beast from fire. He thinks he plays bad and had barely 22k DPS when I started running vSCP with him (after making him punch a dummy for a while he is very happy with his growing damage on stamsorc without maelstrom bow, altmer, 32k and growing). And now he happily joins if I need some more hands. Honestly? If he can? Everyone can. Because he is one of those who complain it is to hard. He is one of those who are afraid of dying and don't want to pull the team back with "lack of skill". Also run it with NB tank 300 cp lady that has left our guild for some reason (still heartbroken, need more main tanks in my guild). I don't remember any wipes. Probably because was long ago, but 100% not more than 3 wipes. All of number 7, is connected back to numbers 1 2 and 3. It is possible. For those who try enough. Yes. It is end game content.

I mean. For all those who knows undertale. For some things. You gotta have DETERMINATION. So please. Next time you see l2p or git gud, don't take it as an insult. Either you have the determination and possibility to do it (old age and some extreme health problems are the only thing that comes to mind that can stop you from managing with determination). Or you don't try enough. And don't plan to.

PS: ye I got kicked from some vet dlc dungeons for saying "hey guys I don't know mechanics so please explain them before bosses", but some runs people explained and helped, and it was fun! Never again am I tanking vet dlc dungeons with 999 ping spikes though, vMoS . (And yes, still passed it, and I was the tank)

participation trophies are to blame it taught a whole genration it does not matter if you win or lose just show up and stand there and you will be rewarded

Do you forget what is the generation that gave out those participation trophys?

The generation of prideful “we’re the best” idiots who think their spawn is a gift to the world, who also argue with cashiers like they’ve been slighted when their 50¢ coupon won’t work on the wrong item

But the participation trophies sure didn’t do much to make hard work and effort feel rewarding for those who put effort in, and the one who didn’t were given reason think not doing anything is still worthy of the same rewards as someone who put in work and effort to succeed

Nerouyn · February 2019

Reistr_the_Unbroken wrote: »

Idk what you’re reading, but I can CLEARLY SEE "vet DLC"

Yet you can't CLEARLY SEE that that's NOT what they said. Even with my having bolded it.

zvavi wrote: »

it is a known fact that pugging vet dlc is a harsh thing

Then they claimed to have said something different.

zvavi wrote: »

@Nerouyn I said "vet dlc is harsh". Not "vet". Most vet in the game is a joke you can run with 4 dd's. The whole post was about vet DLC dungeons.

Those statements are not the same and the first one is unequivocally false.

It might be known to those who frequently run dungeons but you would not expect the same of players jumping into them during a special event - ESO Plus free trial running concurrently with the Morrowind anniversary - during which the game experiences an influx of not regulars.

Jhalin · February 2019

Nerouyn wrote: »

Reistr_the_Unbroken wrote: »

Idk what you’re reading, but I can CLEARLY SEE "vet DLC"

Yet you can't CLEARLY SEE that that's NOT what they said. Even with my having bolded it.

zvavi wrote: »

it is a known fact that pugging vet dlc is a harsh thing

Then they claimed to have said something different.

zvavi wrote: »

@Nerouyn I said "vet dlc is harsh". Not "vet". Most vet in the game is a joke you can run with 4 dd's. The whole post was about vet DLC dungeons.

Those statements are not the same and the first one is unequivocally false.

It might be known to those who frequently run dungeons but you would not expect the same of players jumping into them during a special event - ESO Plus free trial running concurrently with the Morrowind anniversary - during which the game experiences an influx of not regulars.

Dude you literally right there quoted zvavi saying “vet dlc is a harsh thing” and in another quote, paraphrased, “base-game vet isn’t challenging”

Why are you insisting he didn’t when it is right there in black and white?