Simple yet unbelievable flaws in the new racial changes.

Inarre · February 2019

I agree high elf is a bit strange lorewise, but keep in mind this would be Lor friendly should someone make a stamina high elf for some reason. This is about perspective. Ignoring that tidbit, the concept is rather cool and could be very useful in many contexts and offers a unique flavour to gameplay. In my opinion, even if they don't keep Altmers with this passive, I would love to see another race inherit it.

Regardless of lore, people are losing context here. Keep in mind the testing we speak of is cursory. I'm told some of the changes on PTS are jacked, and there are a lot of changes here, especially where max resources are concerned and how they stack with CP and Food buffs... Max resources is something that you would think would be an Altmers speciality. When we say "OMG Bretons parse higher than Altmers

" were saying that with veeeery first glance, fifth hand testing. I doubt every one of you has run parsing tests on PTS?

But then I guess this forum is known for jumping to conclusions.

ThePedge · February 2019

1. Screw lore
2. To hell with lore
3. *** lore

If all the game was entirely based on Lore, every Magicka character would be Altmer because they are the best.

Kalle_Demos · February 2019

I agree. These changes make no sense. Lore wise they are inaccurate at best and I expect more from Zos. Worse, they didn't balance anything. Certain races are still outperforming others noticeably. All that was accomplished was shifting the meta around and pissing people off.

Tapio75 · February 2019

I feel you..

It is the era what litle is written about. No surprise there as the races cant even be sure how they work.. Someone is playing with genetics i guess.. Next, some alien expansion with rtentacles as their hair who admits they keep changing everything until books start to be written again.

Vhozek · February 2019

Ogou wrote: »

Show me one TES game where your idea of what the racial bonuses should be was applied.

Have you ever played a TES game? Read not only the race descriptions but the stat bonuses they have as well in every other TES game.

MLGProPlayer · February 2019

Skwor wrote: »

The altmer is not bottom of DPS they are finally balanced and that is the issue you and so many others have. 5 years they have been the only choice, the uncontested meta and by a large margin in DPS performance.

Dunmer were the uncontested meta for 5 years. I don't know how many times this needs to be said.

The only people saying Altmer were the meta are those that didn't actually partake in endgame content.

MLGProPlayer · February 2019

Seraphayel wrote: »

The only flaw regarding the racial changes is the mass hysteria created by a vocal minority.

There have been FAR more people complaining about the changes than agreeing with them. The minority are the 3-4 posters that show up in every thread to say that everything is okay (the agrees per post should tell you how everyone feels).

CrimsonGTX · February 2019

I agree with some points said, Altmer stamina regain don't make any sense, considering they have a Highborn passive(TES5) which restores magicka in a similar way Redguard's do with stamina. Dunmer don't necessarily need flame damage, but a very small percentage boost to their damage stat makes a lot of sense. Bretons also don't need your recommended stamina regen that Altmers recently got, their magic and resistance to magic is what they're known for. Imperials....I don't know what ZOS are doing with them but they are not what they should be. Argonian's makes me laugh in ESO because they are known for being stealthy, fast movement speed and good assassins, but yes they should be able tot heal themselves.

ThePedge wrote: »

1. Screw lore
2. To hell with lore
3. *** lore

If all the game was entirely based on Lore, every Magicka character would be Altmer because they are the best.

Not true, It would mostly be between Bretons & Altmers as pure magicka builds, Dunmer as a pure destruction build and Imperials as a Battlemage builds. Saying screw lore won't erase that fact. Anyone saying Altmer were the only best magicka race obviously don't do endgame PvE content and was giving false information, Dunmer was clearly the go to meta choice.

Morgha_Kul · February 2019

jircris11 wrote: »

Fun fact, they own the lore they can change it as they wish lol.

I have to disagree with this. The Elder Scrolls is an ongoing, connected history. That is why they need to remain consistent with the lore established in previous games (this is also why I dislike Vampires wandeirng around in daylight, mingling with normal folks).

Now, I haven't looked at the new race passives, but from what I see here, I'm concerned.

radudraq93 · February 2019

Who the heck takes all those stupid decisions? We are playing and you are creating for us as we are playing and paying, why you want to ruin our gameplay and force us to get away from the game? why not listen to the players? what is wrong with stupid devs today with all the companies? They are all ruin their own work at a moment and also destroy years of a gamer that invested in X game...

max_only · February 2019

CrimsonGTX wrote: »

Argonian's makes me laugh in ESO because they are known for being stealthy, fast movement speed and good assassins, but yes they should be able tot heal themselves.

Yes.

Vhozek wrote: »

Dark Elf: Removal of Flame Damage
- They're not actually known for dealing more flame damage, but you already gave us a candy you can't take away. Modern devs are always talking about "we don't want to punish the player" but that's exactly what you're doing.

Yes.

MikaHR · February 2019

Altmer is still TOP mag raid DPS.

This crying has been hilarious guis, carry on.

alanmatillab16_ESO · February 2019

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

The only flaw regarding the racial changes is the mass hysteria created by a vocal minority.

There have been FAR more people complaining about the changes than agreeing with them. The minority are the 3-4 posters that show up in every thread to say that everything is okay (the agrees per post should tell you how everyone feels).

Those that agree with the changes dont need to post about it because they are getting what they want.

Those that don't care about the changes dont need to post about it because they don't care.

Leaving only those that don't like the changes.

Katinas · February 2019

They need to wake up and realize how absurd Altmer lower stat return passive is, and how unwelcome and unwanted are healing return passives such as proposed one for Orc will be (and Imperial is currently). Altmer change is beyond stupid and has to be reverted.

JumpmanLane · February 2019

jircris11 wrote: »

Vhozek wrote: »

LORE DOES NOT SERVE THE GAMEPLAY.
GAMEPLAY SERVES THE LORE.

High Elf: Stamina restoration
- Dark Elves are already High Elves that adapted to more physical combat. High Elves, on average, have always been known for their magic. Why is the below average being represented? Also, they are direct counterparts to the Redguard but this stamina buff makes it inconsistent.

Argonians: Removal of self healing
- They have always been known for being able to heal themselves and are less known for being able to heal others

Wood Elf: Green Pact being left out
- How come there is no buff for killing something? You have already added damage buffs to other races so it's not like you can't add a situational buff to another. The dude on stream says they take a real close look at the lore, but you obviously don't. Stop lying. Fix yourself.

Breton: The real High Elf
- They are a mix of human and elf, but for some reason you decide to give the stamina regen to the pure elf (high elf) while knowing that Bretons are well known for their Spellswords. Lore. Again, stop lying. Fix yourself.

Dark Elf: Removal of Flame Damage
- They're not actually known for dealing more flame damage, but you already gave us a candy you can't take away. Modern devs are always talking about "we don't want to punish the player" but that's exactly what you're doing.

Khajiit: Literally what
-They don't need buffs on literally everything. Also, how come cats don't have reduced fall damage?

Nord: Rugged is the same (I think)
- Everything else about the Nord is actually perfect, but you changed Rugged for the sake of making changes while literally making no changes to it. The resistances from the new Rugged provide the exact same damage reduction as the current Rugged.

Redguard: Not a flaw, but read
- They are direct counterparts of the High Elves and for some reason High Elves have a stamina restoration ability. Consistency consistency. This is not consistent.

Imperial: Still can't heal others
- They are known for being great healers but for some reason they can't heal anything other than themselves. The hell is wrong with you?

LORE
LORE
LORE
YOU GOT IT ALL WRONG

Fun fact, they own the lore they can change it as they wish lol.

We PAY them to play the game and can stop paying AND stop playing lol.

spartaxoxo · February 2019

MikaHR wrote: »

So? Altmer should be only choice while everything else is subpar? They way it was for past 5 years?

Its balanced now, deal with it.

Where was I for that? Dunmer has been competitive and outright beats it in many cases for ages.

And Altmer and Dunmer are supposed to be the most magical classes from lore.

Lore is important for that because who are new are likely to be players of other Elder Scrolls games, and what do you expect them to do when they find out their Altmer mage should have been a Khajit?

A lot of them will just quit.

It isn't new player friendly, and it isn't diehard fan friendly.

It's nothing wrong with other races being within 1-2% instead of being hands down worse, but to completely upend the lore is ridiculous.

Tommy_The_Gun · February 2019

Vhozek wrote: »

Argonians: Removal of self healing
- They have always been known for being able to heal themselves and are less known for being able to heal others

The most baffling thing to me is just all of the sudden Argonians do not have poison resistance... I mean you are telling me that a race of lizards that lives on a Blighttown - like swamp for generations, if not centuries (and this is their homeland) does not have any poison resistance in the slightest ?!

I can understand removing poison immunity from Argnians and Disease immunity from wood elves simply because of balance... But imho they should still leave some form of poison / disease resistance on both of those races. Maybe lower the higher resistance value by 1/3 and add that 1/3 to missing poison / disease resistance ?

MikaHR · February 2019

spartaxoxo wrote: »

MikaHR wrote: »

So? Altmer should be only choice while everything else is subpar? They way it was for past 5 years?

Its balanced now, deal with it.

Where was I for that? Dunmer has been competitive and outright beats it in many cases for ages.

And Altmer and Dunmer are supposed to be the most magical classes from lore.

Lore is important for that because who are new are likely to be players of other Elder Scrolls games, and what do you expect them to do when they find out their Altmer mage should have been a Khajit?

A lot of them will just quit.

It isn't new player friendly, and it isn't diehard fan friendly.

It's nothing wrong with other races being within 1-2% instead of being hands down worse, but to completely upend the lore is ridiculous.

Uh wut? Altmer are still TOP magicka DPS. Just not by 10% like before and are brought down to other aces.

In other TES games every race could go to 100 skill in any tree and be as good as anyone else at it. You were saying about lore?

Vhozek · February 2019

Katinas wrote: »

They need to wake up and realize how absurd Altmer lower stat return passive is, and how unwelcome and unwanted are healing return passives such as proposed one for Orc will be (and Imperial is currently). Altmer change is beyond stupid and has to be reverted.

WAIT
It's the lower stat? WHAT
WHAT
WHAT
WHAT
WHAT?
Why? Lower stat, is that true? Read it with me now. Lower (not higher) stat.
That's useless lmfaoooooooooooooo
And just because it's useless it doesn't justify why it's on the *** Altmer

MLGProPlayer · February 2019

MikaHR wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

MikaHR wrote: »

So? Altmer should be only choice while everything else is subpar? They way it was for past 5 years?

Its balanced now, deal with it.

Where was I for that? Dunmer has been competitive and outright beats it in many cases for ages.

And Altmer and Dunmer are supposed to be the most magical classes from lore.

Lore is important for that because who are new are likely to be players of other Elder Scrolls games, and what do you expect them to do when they find out their Altmer mage should have been a Khajit?

A lot of them will just quit.

It isn't new player friendly, and it isn't diehard fan friendly.

It's nothing wrong with other races being within 1-2% instead of being hands down worse, but to completely upend the lore is ridiculous.

Uh wut? Altmer are still TOP magicka DPS. Just not by 10% like before and are brought down to other aces.

In other TES games every race could go to 100 skill in any tree and be as good as anyone else at it. You were saying about lore?

Altmer were never the top magicka DPS race. It was always Dunmer. Your comments tell me you've never played endgame PvE.

And even right now on PTS, they only get the top score with shadow mundus (for whatever reason). In tests with thief mundus, they are behind Dunmer and Khajiit (again, for whatever reason). If Shadow is nerfed (which it likely will be), Breton is top DPS again.

Vhozek · February 2019

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

Vhozek wrote: »

Argonians: Removal of self healing
- They have always been known for being able to heal themselves and are less known for being able to heal others

The most baffling thing to me is just all of the sudden Argonians do not have poison resistance... I mean you are telling me that a race of lizards that lives on a Blighttown - like swamp for generations, if not centuries (and this is their homeland) does not have any poison resistance in the slightest ?!

I can understand removing poison immunity from Argnians and Disease immunity from wood elves simply because of balance... But imho they should still leave some form of poison / disease resistance on both of those races. Maybe lower the higher resistance value by 1/3 and add that 1/3 to missing poison / disease resistance ?

They don't? I didn't see that. I'm gonna have to read the changes again. The hell is wrong with these people? Argonians and Wood Elves should have a mix of Poison Resistance/immunity and Disease Resistance/immunity. So basically one with immunity to poison and the other with 35% (or whatever number) resistance to disease and vise versa.

heng14rwb17_ESO · February 2019

GO BRETON OR GO CRY !

eso_nya · February 2019

So hard to balance around lore while maintaining equal combat efficiency.

How about everyone gets the same statsticks and lore is served by e.g. 'smart' altmers get +20% xp gain on destro -20% xp gain on dw/2h/bow while 'dumb' orcs get -20% xp on destro but +20% xp on melee lines?

But no, what am i thinking, lore is happy, everyone gets buffed, combat power is perfectly balanced, no race is "meta", hell no the horror.

Tryxus · February 2019

spartaxoxo wrote: »

And Altmer and Dunmer are supposed to be the most magical classes from lore.

Altmer and Breton you mean, Dunmer always were a warrior/mage hybrid. Only the Telvanni were "magical"

MikaHR · February 2019

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

MikaHR wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

MikaHR wrote: »

So? Altmer should be only choice while everything else is subpar? They way it was for past 5 years?

Its balanced now, deal with it.

Where was I for that? Dunmer has been competitive and outright beats it in many cases for ages.

And Altmer and Dunmer are supposed to be the most magical classes from lore.

Lore is important for that because who are new are likely to be players of other Elder Scrolls games, and what do you expect them to do when they find out their Altmer mage should have been a Khajit?

A lot of them will just quit.

It isn't new player friendly, and it isn't diehard fan friendly.

It's nothing wrong with other races being within 1-2% instead of being hands down worse, but to completely upend the lore is ridiculous.

Uh wut? Altmer are still TOP magicka DPS. Just not by 10% like before and are brought down to other aces.

In other TES games every race could go to 100 skill in any tree and be as good as anyone else at it. You were saying about lore?

Altmer were never the top magicka DPS race. It was always Dunmer. Your comments tell me you've never played endgame PvE.

And even right now on PTS, they only get the top score with shadow mundus (for whatever reason). In tests with thief mundus, they are behind Dunmer and Khajiit (again, for whatever reason). If Shadow is nerfed (which it likely will be), Breton is top DPS again.

Soooooo....why was everyone rolling "inferior Altmers" then huh. As everyone has a Dunmer.

Seems that you have logical fallacies.

Anyway, races are more balanced than ever (except orc which should be brought down a notch) and Altmer got best utility passive.

Any more crying needed? Carry on!

ynimma · February 2019

This whole idea of reworking the racial passives towards flat numbers suggests to me that ZOS is simply trying to find a way to reduce server load which is - paired with the already on edge game engine - getting to a point where sustainibility is an issue.
Adding a flat number to a value instead of calculating variables depending on certain triggers requires much less calculation and also less data packs to exchange if I'm correct. And as every single character has a race with all passives calculated 100% of the game time it's the best aspect to touch to reduce workload.

I guess ZOS needed to sell an idea to cover up a bit of housekeeping on server load so they brought up the immediate need of sorting the racials out. However if it was the original idea we wouldn't see so many off-lore aspects now would we?

TheInfernalRage · February 2019

Vhozek wrote: »

LORE DOES NOT SERVE THE GAMEPLAY.
GAMEPLAY SERVES THE LORE.

High Elf: Stamina restoration
- Dark Elves are already High Elves that adapted to more physical combat. High Elves, on average, have always been known for their magic. Why is the below average being represented? Also, they are direct counterparts to the Redguard but this stamina buff makes it inconsistent.

Argonians: Removal of self healing
- They have always been known for being able to heal themselves and are less known for being able to heal others

Wood Elf: Green Pact being left out
- How come there is no buff for killing something? You have already added damage buffs to other races so it's not like you can't add a situational buff to another. The dude on stream says they take a real close look at the lore, but you obviously don't. Stop lying. Fix yourself.

Breton: The real High Elf
- They are a mix of human and elf, but for some reason you decide to give the stamina regen to the pure elf (high elf) while knowing that Bretons are well known for their Spellswords. Lore. Again, stop lying. Fix yourself.

Dark Elf: Removal of Flame Damage
- They're not actually known for dealing more flame damage, but you already gave us a candy you can't take away. Modern devs are always talking about "we don't want to punish the player" but that's exactly what you're doing.

Khajiit: Literally what
-They don't need buffs on literally everything. Also, how come cats don't have reduced fall damage and/or increased unarmed damage? Khajiit always look the most monk-like in artwork.

Nord: Rugged is the same (I think)
- Everything else about the Nord is actually perfect, but you changed Rugged for the sake of making changes while literally making no changes to it. The resistances from the new Rugged provide the exact same damage reduction as the current Rugged.

Redguard: Not a flaw, but read
- They are direct counterparts of the High Elves and for some reason High Elves have a stamina restoration ability. Consistency consistency. This is not consistent.

Imperial: Still can't heal others
- They are known for being great healers but for some reason they can't heal anything other than themselves. The hell is wrong with you?

LORE
LORE
LORE
YOU GOT IT ALL WRONG

@ZOS_Gilliam This is very much worthy for consideration because right now everything appears to be "let's balance them out without giving a *** to the lore".

MikaHR · February 2019

Its not about server load, its about more simple and sustainable balancing system.

Seraphayel · February 2019

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

Vhozek wrote: »

Argonians: Removal of self healing
- They have always been known for being able to heal themselves and are less known for being able to heal others

The most baffling thing to me is just all of the sudden Argonians do not have poison resistance... I mean you are telling me that a race of lizards that lives on a Blighttown - like swamp for generations, if not centuries (and this is their homeland) does not have any poison resistance in the slightest ?!

I can understand removing poison immunity from Argnians and Disease immunity from wood elves simply because of balance... But imho they should still leave some form of poison / disease resistance on both of those races. Maybe lower the higher resistance value by 1/3 and add that 1/3 to missing poison / disease resistance ?

Argonians lost their poison immunity back in Skyrim btw.

MLGProPlayer · February 2019

MikaHR wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

MikaHR wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

MikaHR wrote: »

So? Altmer should be only choice while everything else is subpar? They way it was for past 5 years?

Its balanced now, deal with it.

Where was I for that? Dunmer has been competitive and outright beats it in many cases for ages.

And Altmer and Dunmer are supposed to be the most magical classes from lore.

Lore is important for that because who are new are likely to be players of other Elder Scrolls games, and what do you expect them to do when they find out their Altmer mage should have been a Khajit?

A lot of them will just quit.

It isn't new player friendly, and it isn't diehard fan friendly.

It's nothing wrong with other races being within 1-2% instead of being hands down worse, but to completely upend the lore is ridiculous.

Uh wut? Altmer are still TOP magicka DPS. Just not by 10% like before and are brought down to other aces.

In other TES games every race could go to 100 skill in any tree and be as good as anyone else at it. You were saying about lore?

Altmer were never the top magicka DPS race. It was always Dunmer. Your comments tell me you've never played endgame PvE.

And even right now on PTS, they only get the top score with shadow mundus (for whatever reason). In tests with thief mundus, they are behind Dunmer and Khajiit (again, for whatever reason). If Shadow is nerfed (which it likely will be), Breton is top DPS again.

Soooooo....why was everyone rolling "inferior Altmers" then huh. As everyone has a Dunmer.

Seems that you have logical fallacies.

Anyway, races are more balanced than ever (except orc which should be brought down a notch) and Altmer got best utility passive.

Any more crying needed? Carry on!

You only rolled Altmer if you wanted a little more sustain or if you preferred how they looked. Dunmer was the undisputed meta race. I can guarantee you've never set foot in endgame PvE.

[edit]

[edited non-constructive comment]