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Simple yet unbelievable flaws in the new racial changes.
Vhozek
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LORE DOES NOT SERVE THE GAMEPLAY.
GAMEPLAY SERVES THE LORE.
High Elf: Stamina restoration
- Dark Elves are already High Elves that adapted to more physical combat. High Elves, on average, have always been known for their magic. Why is the below average being represented? Also, they are direct counterparts to the Redguard but this stamina buff makes it inconsistent.
Argonians: Removal of self healing
- They have always been known for being able to heal themselves and are less known for being able to heal others
Wood Elf: Green Pact being left out
- How come there is no buff for killing something? You have already added damage buffs to other races so it's not like you can't add a situational buff to another. The dude on stream says they take a real close look at the lore, but you obviously don't. Stop lying. Fix yourself.
Breton: The real High Elf
- They are a mix of human and elf, but for some reason you decide to give the stamina regen to the pure elf (high elf) while knowing that Bretons are well known for their Spellswords. Lore. Again, stop lying. Fix yourself.
Dark Elf: Removal of Flame Damage
- They're not actually known for dealing more flame damage, but you already gave us a candy you can't take away. Modern devs are always talking about "we don't want to punish the player" but that's exactly what you're doing.
Khajiit: Literally what
-They don't need buffs on literally everything. Also, how come cats don't have reduced fall damage and/or increased unarmed damage? Khajiit always look the most monk-like in artwork.
Nord: Rugged is the same (I think)
- Everything else about the Nord is actually perfect, but you changed Rugged for the sake of making changes while literally making no changes to it. The resistances from the new Rugged provide the exact same damage reduction as the current Rugged.
Redguard: Not a flaw, but read
- They are direct counterparts of the High Elves and for some reason High Elves have a stamina restoration ability. Consistency consistency. This is not consistent.
Imperial: Still can't heal others
- They are known for being great healers but for some reason they can't heal anything other than themselves. The hell is wrong with you?
LORE
LORE
LORE
YOU GOT IT ALL WRONG
Edited by Vhozek on February 8, 2019 2:34AM GAMEPLAY SERVES THE LORE.
High Elf: Stamina restoration
- Dark Elves are already High Elves that adapted to more physical combat. High Elves, on average, have always been known for their magic. Why is the below average being represented? Also, they are direct counterparts to the Redguard but this stamina buff makes it inconsistent.
Argonians: Removal of self healing
- They have always been known for being able to heal themselves and are less known for being able to heal others
Wood Elf: Green Pact being left out
- How come there is no buff for killing something? You have already added damage buffs to other races so it's not like you can't add a situational buff to another. The dude on stream says they take a real close look at the lore, but you obviously don't. Stop lying. Fix yourself.
Breton: The real High Elf
- They are a mix of human and elf, but for some reason you decide to give the stamina regen to the pure elf (high elf) while knowing that Bretons are well known for their Spellswords. Lore. Again, stop lying. Fix yourself.
Dark Elf: Removal of Flame Damage
- They're not actually known for dealing more flame damage, but you already gave us a candy you can't take away. Modern devs are always talking about "we don't want to punish the player" but that's exactly what you're doing.
Khajiit: Literally what
-They don't need buffs on literally everything. Also, how come cats don't have reduced fall damage and/or increased unarmed damage? Khajiit always look the most monk-like in artwork.
Nord: Rugged is the same (I think)
- Everything else about the Nord is actually perfect, but you changed Rugged for the sake of making changes while literally making no changes to it. The resistances from the new Rugged provide the exact same damage reduction as the current Rugged.
Redguard: Not a flaw, but read
- They are direct counterparts of the High Elves and for some reason High Elves have a stamina restoration ability. Consistency consistency. This is not consistent.
Imperial: Still can't heal others
- They are known for being great healers but for some reason they can't heal anything other than themselves. The hell is wrong with you?
LORE
LORE
LORE
YOU GOT IT ALL WRONG
𝗡𝗼𝘁 𝘀𝗼𝗿𝗿𝘆, 𝗺𝗼𝗱𝘀. 𝗙𝗿𝗲𝗲 𝗕𝗶𝗿𝗱 𝘄𝗮𝘀 𝗽𝗹𝗮𝘆𝗶𝗻𝗴.
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Princess_Ciri✭✭✭✭✭Agreed, these racial changes make less sense everytime ZOS changes something.
Do they just spin a wheel of random passives for every race and then whatever it lands on they give that a go? Because that's what it feels like rn.GM and raid leader of Hot Girls Play DPS, the cutest guild EU24 -
essi2✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭The Altmer regen for lowest max resource is complete nonsense and almost completely useless.
It might have some minor utility in PvP."The Heritance are racists yes? Idiots. But dangerous, destabilizing racist idiots." - Razum-dar
"Wood Elves aren't made of wood, Sea Elves aren't made of water. M'aiq still wonders about High Elves" - M'aiq the Liar
** Leyawiin Layabouts (PC-EU) - Leyawiin Layabouts (PC-NA) **
*** https://www.youtube.com/@essi2 - https://www.twitch.tv/essi2 ***27 -
Princess_Ciri✭✭✭✭✭The Altmer regen for lowest max resource is complete nonsense and almost completely useless.
It might have some minor utility in PvP.
Unfortunately that minor utility would still be worse than just rolling a Breton - who will have more sustain that Altmer and can therefore get away with running stamina recovery and spell damage glyphs. AND they'll have the crazy high spell resistances that Altmer can't reach.
I mean, yeah, the stamina recovery might help an Altmer in PvP, but if you had a choice between Altmer and Argonian or Breton I am not sure why you would pick Altmer, they have really lost their edge now.GM and raid leader of Hot Girls Play DPS, the cutest guild EU9 -
zaria✭✭✭✭✭
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Yes they needed an buff not an nerf.The Altmer regen for lowest max resource is complete nonsense and almost completely useless.
It might have some minor utility in PvP.Grinding just make you go in circles.
Asking ZoS for nerfs is as stupid as asking for close air support from the death star.0 -
MikaHR✭✭✭✭✭So? Altmer should be only choice while everything else is subpar? They way it was for past 5 years?
Its balanced now, deal with it.8 -
Vhozek✭✭✭✭✭
✭So? Altmer should be only choice while everything else is subpar? They way it was for past 5 years?
Its balanced now, deal with it.
Did I ever make a case for everything to stay the way it has always been? Have I ever? You can look but you will never find it.
I have actually stated before that we should have 3 stamina races, 3 magicka races, 1 or 2 hybrids, and 3 tank races. Look for that, you will find it.Edited by Vhozek on February 7, 2019 11:59AM𝗡𝗼𝘁 𝘀𝗼𝗿𝗿𝘆, 𝗺𝗼𝗱𝘀. 𝗙𝗿𝗲𝗲 𝗕𝗶𝗿𝗱 𝘄𝗮𝘀 𝗽𝗹𝗮𝘆𝗶𝗻𝗴.7 -
Skwor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭The altmer is not bottom of DPS they are finally balanced and that is the issue you and so many others have. 5 years they have been the only choice, the uncontested meta and by a large margin in DPS performance.
Now there is a very reasonable balance and several races are competitive, not better at all just competitive, and many lose their mind.
As said it is balance, much needed and welcome by many, deal with it instead of trying to keep your favored race overperforming.
This is a fix for the broken racial passives and a dispassionate evaluation of it shows it is reasonable and not far off the mark to align all the races to be competitive.Edited by Skwor on February 7, 2019 2:03PM12 -
zaria✭✭✭✭✭
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Most stuff outside of resistances are totaly out of line with how racals worked in Daggerfall, Morrowind and Oblivion.What's disgusting is that these decision makers at ZOS changing these passives actually think they are doing a good job. These people keep moving the game further and further away from the lore.
First the racials was starting bonuses, you started with them, mostly they was bonuses to attributes and skills.
As you leveled up this effect became smaller and smaller as low level skills was faster to level.
At 100 the effect went away as you could not level skills and atributes higher.
The only thing who had any similarity to how ESO racials is that Altmer and Breton had an magic bonus.
In ESO however all races start exactly the same but changes as you level up.
Nothing like Dunmer fire damage or Altmer shock.
Races come with two spells however, they mostly became useless as you leveled up.
The racial description is the same as in Skyrim who I did not included since it gutted races with the loss of attributes.
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Morrowind:Races
In short if they removed all racial effects except the first and the resistances ESO would be more in line with the old games.Grinding just make you go in circles.
Asking ZoS for nerfs is as stupid as asking for close air support from the death star.5 -
DeadlyRecluse✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭While I don't really care that much about passives lining up with lore, a few of the bizarre choices from a pure gameplay stance also don't make sense from the lore perspective.
The high elf one is probably the most egregious. I'm actually optimistic about it from a niche playstyle perspective, but man, it makes ZERO sense. Not in lore, not in gameplay design. There are a few passives or skills that default to restoring or scaling off of HIGHEST resource, but I think this is the first time a passive scales off the LOWEST. It's just weird.
Khajiit not getting the fall damage passive never made sense, but meh, that's just the flavor passive.
Thrice Empress, Forever Scrub8 -
bardx86✭✭✭✭✭
✭Princess_Ciri wrote: »The Altmer regen for lowest max resource is complete nonsense and almost completely useless.
It might have some minor utility in PvP.
Unfortunately that minor utility would still be worse than just rolling a Breton - who will have more sustain that Altmer and can therefore get away with running stamina recovery and spell damage glyphs. AND they'll have the crazy high spell resistances that Altmer can't reach.
I mean, yeah, the stamina recovery might help an Altmer in PvP, but if you had a choice between Altmer and Argonian or Breton I am not sure why you would pick Altmer, they have really lost their edge now.
I have tested this on PTS and breton does blows altmer away.5 -
Skwor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Princess_Ciri wrote: »The Altmer regen for lowest max resource is complete nonsense and almost completely useless.
It might have some minor utility in PvP.
Unfortunately that minor utility would still be worse than just rolling a Breton - who will have more sustain that Altmer and can therefore get away with running stamina recovery and spell damage glyphs. AND they'll have the crazy high spell resistances that Altmer can't reach.
I mean, yeah, the stamina recovery might help an Altmer in PvP, but if you had a choice between Altmer and Argonian or Breton I am not sure why you would pick Altmer, they have really lost their edge now.
I have tested this on PTS and breton does blows altmer away.
Exactly what anyone would say if they do not want balance brought to racial passives.
We also have others saying just the opposite and my opinion differs from your opinion though I can not say I have tested it extensively.
Absolutly no reason your opinion is any more valid than mine or others which is why I chose to believe actual game developers instead. They have clearly stated altmers are overperforming.
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moses1763✭✭✭Lore is meant to be broken and/or made as you progress each level of the story
Did You not read the farewell letter from the Lore Master...Edited by moses1763 on February 7, 2019 2:16PMLive, Laugh, and Hope!1 -
MikaHR✭✭✭✭✭Racial passives arent defining you whole class gameplayLore is meant to be broken and/or made as you progress each level of the story
Did You not read the farewell letter from the Lore Master...
No, game should be exact same as Morrwind!
This has nothing to do with lore but altmers being brought to the level of other races.So? Altmer should be only choice while everything else is subpar? They way it was for past 5 years?
Its balanced now, deal with it.
Did I ever make a case for everything to stay the way it has always been? Have I ever? You can look but you will never find it.
I have actually stated before that we should have 3 stamina races, 3 magicka races, 1 or 2 hybrids, and 3 tank races. Look for that, you will find it.
Thats sucks most races should be good in ALL. Its a game. And race should be a flavor not class defining choice. Like it was until now.
If they wanted to shoehorn people like that....lets go step further and make only 1 class available to each race!Edited by MikaHR on February 7, 2019 2:29PM1 -
jircris11✭✭✭✭✭
✭LORE DOES NOT SERVE THE GAMEPLAY.
GAMEPLAY SERVES THE LORE.
High Elf: Stamina restoration
- Dark Elves are already High Elves that adapted to more physical combat. High Elves, on average, have always been known for their magic. Why is the below average being represented? Also, they are direct counterparts to the Redguard but this stamina buff makes it inconsistent.
Argonians: Removal of self healing
- They have always been known for being able to heal themselves and are less known for being able to heal others
Wood Elf: Green Pact being left out
- How come there is no buff for killing something? You have already added damage buffs to other races so it's not like you can't add a situational buff to another. The dude on stream says they take a real close look at the lore, but you obviously don't. Stop lying. Fix yourself.
Breton: The real High Elf
- They are a mix of human and elf, but for some reason you decide to give the stamina regen to the pure elf (high elf) while knowing that Bretons are well known for their Spellswords. Lore. Again, stop lying. Fix yourself.
Dark Elf: Removal of Flame Damage
- They're not actually known for dealing more flame damage, but you already gave us a candy you can't take away. Modern devs are always talking about "we don't want to punish the player" but that's exactly what you're doing.
Khajiit: Literally what
-They don't need buffs on literally everything. Also, how come cats don't have reduced fall damage?
Nord: Rugged is the same (I think)
- Everything else about the Nord is actually perfect, but you changed Rugged for the sake of making changes while literally making no changes to it. The resistances from the new Rugged provide the exact same damage reduction as the current Rugged.
Redguard: Not a flaw, but read
- They are direct counterparts of the High Elves and for some reason High Elves have a stamina restoration ability. Consistency consistency. This is not consistent.
Imperial: Still can't heal others
- They are known for being great healers but for some reason they can't heal anything other than themselves. The hell is wrong with you?
LORE
LORE
LORE
YOU GOT IT ALL WRONG
Fun fact, they own the lore they can change it as they wish lol.IGN: Ki'rah
Khajiit/Vampire
DC/AD faction/NA server.
RPer5 -
Dagoth_Rac✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭The Altmer regen for lowest max resource is complete nonsense and almost completely useless.
It might have some minor utility in PvP.
A passive that has minor utility in one specific portion of game means it should not be a passive unto itself. This kind of niche utility is what you throw on the end of another passive. Like, "Reduces the cost of your Block and Bash abilities by 5%," or, "Reduces your detection radius in Stealth". Those are tacked onto other, better passives. This weird new Altmer perk that gives a magicka class extra stamina regen will see little use. If they want to get rid of Altmer magicka sustain, at least replace it with something universally useful. As it is now, for most players, Altmer might as well have only 2 racial passives.7 -
moses1763✭✭✭Racial passives arent defining you whole class gameplayLore is meant to be broken and/or made as you progress each level of the story
Did You not read the farewell letter from the Lore Master...
No, game should be exact same as Morrwind!
This has nothing to do with lore but altmers being brought to the level of other races.
lol so altmers are the 'Master Race'; come on really?!
In our lil make believe world of Tamreil everything is changing all the time this lil world is not static it is EVOLVING. The races learn from and adapt to each other and we the player are the cause and effect with every quest, boss, and trial completed.
Things change nothing ever is written in stone in video games or Life; humans by their very nature fear change will rant and rave against it to insane levels without rhyme or reason.
Live your game
Laugh at the absurdity of it all
Hope for change.
Edited by moses1763 on February 7, 2019 2:35PMLive, Laugh, and Hope!2 -
CleymenZero✭✭✭✭✭
✭LORE DOES NOT SERVE THE GAMEPLAY.
GAMEPLAY SERVES THE LORE.
High Elf: Stamina restoration
- Dark Elves are already High Elves that adapted to more physical combat. High Elves, on average, have always been known for their magic. Why is the below average being represented? Also, they are direct counterparts to the Redguard but this stamina buff makes it inconsistent.
Argonians: Removal of self healing
- They have always been known for being able to heal themselves and are less known for being able to heal others
Wood Elf: Green Pact being left out
- How come there is no buff for killing something? You have already added damage buffs to other races so it's not like you can't add a situational buff to another. The dude on stream says they take a real close look at the lore, but you obviously don't. Stop lying. Fix yourself.
Breton: The real High Elf
- They are a mix of human and elf, but for some reason you decide to give the stamina regen to the pure elf (high elf) while knowing that Bretons are well known for their Spellswords. Lore. Again, stop lying. Fix yourself.
Dark Elf: Removal of Flame Damage
- They're not actually known for dealing more flame damage, but you already gave us a candy you can't take away. Modern devs are always talking about "we don't want to punish the player" but that's exactly what you're doing.
Khajiit: Literally what
-They don't need buffs on literally everything. Also, how come cats don't have reduced fall damage?
Nord: Rugged is the same (I think)
- Everything else about the Nord is actually perfect, but you changed Rugged for the sake of making changes while literally making no changes to it. The resistances from the new Rugged provide the exact same damage reduction as the current Rugged.
Redguard: Not a flaw, but read
- They are direct counterparts of the High Elves and for some reason High Elves have a stamina restoration ability. Consistency consistency. This is not consistent.
Imperial: Still can't heal others
- They are known for being great healers but for some reason they can't heal anything other than themselves. The hell is wrong with you?
LORE
LORE
LORE
YOU GOT IT ALL WRONG
I care more about gameplay than lore. Those racial passives shouldn't concern you if you are RP'ing.
They won't change anything and you can't have perfect lore and balance.
Balance in a game is much more important otherwise you run the risk of having a broken game.
Also, I'll take Dunmer as an example as to why balance is important and why you still have to make sure the changes keep Dunmer amongst highest magic damage dealers:
Most players who currently have one or multiple Dunmer characters and are active in endgame content chose this race because, in terms of DPS, they are the highest damage dealers with the current inferno staff meta. Changing things too much and making them slightly weaker in terms of magic damage dealing pissed off a lot of end game pve players because it forced them to race-change to stay at the top of the DPS chart.
They increased their damage slighlty in the second week of the PTS, I think, to appease that part of the player base.
Bottom line is, you can't and won't satisfy everyone and if you look at it from an utilitarian pov where you want to procure the most benefits to the greatest amount of people, racial passives are more relevant and important for game balance and end game pve players than they are for lore.
That's my opinion but I think I bring good arguments for people to understand and accept the current changes.5 -
DivineFirstYOLO✭✭✭✭*** the lore, people want a balanced game in the first place and based on the feedback they continuously get, they will most likely change some passives again.
If you want lore go read a book.Zerg Squad
Godslayer x 4
Pro questing fees for RPers in Cyrodiil, pay your taxes!
PC - EU2 -
MikaHR✭✭✭✭✭Why do you think all these whining have a stable full of altmers?
Apparenly all of them have 15 altmer mag characters and thus need 15 race change tokens. Because altmer is now 0,05% behind "insert w/e race" after being 10% ahead for 5 years and thus is useless! USELESSS!
Edited by MikaHR on February 7, 2019 2:40PM8 -
Seraphayel✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭The only flaw regarding the racial changes is the mass hysteria created by a vocal minority.PS5EUAldmeri Dominion- Khajiit Arcanist -13 -
Sevalaricgirl✭✭✭✭✭I like the changes except maybe the Imperial, especially the Khajiit. There have been khajiit mages throughout the elder scrolls series and I like that my magicka khajiit will now have racials that will buff them.2
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Icy_Waffles✭✭✭✭✭
✭This is ridiculous. I disagree and like the changes other than high elf stamina. The rest are fine and solid.
You literally complained about Nord being the same.
Come on this is bait.5 -
CleymenZero✭✭✭✭✭
✭Seraphayel wrote: »The only flaw regarding the racial changes is the mass hysteria created by a vocal minority.
I don't know, I tend to consider lore less important but I was initially pissed when I saw the original data released where dunmer was currently at the top for magic damage dealers and it wasn't anymore.
You'll say that the difference was at most 1-2% but I say that is important when min/maxing. All the Alcast and whatnot guides are going to direct players towards a certain race as they do right now and that influence combined with race changes requiring real world money to conform (yes conform) to maximum damage dealing principles was what got me pissed off as it seemed, in principle, a tad of a cash grab (being gentle).
Now they buffed Dunmers this week as to now make the difference irrelevant* and now I'm fine because I won't be "forced" to race change (yes no one is forcing me). In my 14 characters at max level with fully leveled guilds and skill lines, I have no races that were at the topand that are significantly impacted by the changes now. Had an imperial and they gave it a significant sustain buff so I'm happy.
*I still don't know what to think about Altmer "nerf"
Now for lore, I think that RP'ers are going to have to understand that racial passives affect endgame pve'rs much much much more than it affects role-play. Your Khajit fall damage is not as important when playing as a mysterious master thief as the percentage points endgame DPS gained from this or that passive. I would even be willing to admit they're not important for both now but if you have to pick one, numbers speak more than a costume or scenario written in purple in area/zone chat.
Now fire at me...Edited by CleymenZero on February 7, 2019 3:36PM1
