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Stamina/Magicka Raid Warhorn DPS+Solo Sustain DPS Tests+Graphs with CP Stat Boost Correction (4.3.2)
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clocksstoppe✭✭✭✭✭
✭MLGProPlayer wrote: »Thanks for doing this testing again.
I see a lot of people gloating that Altmer were in fact "OP". Altmer is parsing just 0.3% higher than Breton in fully raid buffed settings (~182 more DPS). They are parsing 1.4% less in non-raid buffed tests (~727 less DPS).
I'd bet crowns that giving them back their small sustain passive wouldn't move their raid buffed parse up at all while it would help their solo parse.
They could also roll a dice and randomly delete either altmer or breton because at that point they are literally the same. At least the altmer regen passive has something unique to bring to the table.3 -
Hotdog_23✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Thanks for the testing and posting results and helping the ESO community as a whole to make ESO a even better and balanced game for everyone.
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MLGProPlayer✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭clocksstoppe wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »Thanks for doing this testing again.
I see a lot of people gloating that Altmer were in fact "OP". Altmer is parsing just 0.3% higher than Breton in fully raid buffed settings (~182 more DPS). They are parsing 1.4% less in non-raid buffed tests (~727 less DPS).
I'd bet crowns that giving them back their small sustain passive wouldn't move their raid buffed parse up at all while it would help their solo parse.
They could also roll a dice and randomly delete either altmer or breton because at that point they are literally the same. At least the altmer regen passive has something unique to bring to the table.
A stamina passive has no place on an Altmer. It's also only useful in PvP. It's just ZOS being lazy. If they don't want to give them magicka recovery, they can give them a different utility buff, something that is actually useful in both PvE and PvP, and makes sense for a magicka class.
And it's funny you mention that Breton and Altmer are the same when Altmer have much more in common with Dunmer (they have almost identical stats).Edited by MLGProPlayer on February 8, 2019 7:16AM2 -
sionIV✭✭✭✭✭For everyone who said that the Orc was fine, and the sustain loss made up for the massive stamina gain.
We told you this would happen.
No race should have 2000 stamina and 258 weapon damage.4 -
Vildebill✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭MLGProPlayer wrote: »Thanks for doing this testing again.
I see a lot of people gloating that Altmer were in fact "OP". Altmer is parsing just 0.3% higher than Breton in fully raid buffed settings (~182 more DPS). They are parsing 1.4% less in non-raid buffed tests (~727 less DPS).
I'd bet crowns that giving them back their small sustain passive wouldn't move their raid buffed parse up at all while it would help their solo parse.
Or maybe people are gloating because of all the Altmer doomsday threads that you'be been a big part of, which in the end turned out to be complete nonsense EU PC13 -
Olupajmibanan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭And now the main question from an Altmer complainer: Would old Spell Recharge generating magicka have changed the current results? Would Altmer DPS be even higher?
I really don't think so. The passive was too weak to drop Citrus Fillet or Absorb Magicka glyph. There was nothing wrong with the passive, helped with sustain a little (was +- the same as Khajit recovery passive), was useful in both PvP and PvE and it was not lorebreaking like this excrement we have now.Edited by Olupajmibanan on February 8, 2019 8:12AM1 -
AlienatedGoat✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭It's called Spell Recharge.
Not Stam Recharge.PC-NA Goat - Bleat Bleat Baaaa4 -
zaria✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
Dunmer agrees, then ask for 100 more magic and staminaFor everyone who said that the Orc was fine, and the sustain loss made up for the massive stamina gain.
We told you this would happen.
No race should have 2000 stamina and 258 weapon damage.
Grinding just make you go in circles.
Asking ZoS for nerfs is as stupid as asking for close air support from the death star.0 -
MLGProPlayer✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Olupajmibanan wrote: »And now the main question from an Altmer complainer: Would old Spell Recharge generating magicka have changed the current results? Would Altmer DPS be even higher?
I really don't think so. The passive was too weak to drop Citrus Fillet or Absorb Magicka glyph. There was nothing wrong with the passive, helped with sustain a little (was +- the same as Khajit recovery passive), was useful in both PvP and PvE and it was not lorebreaking like this excrement we have now.
It would not have changed raid parses because you rarely run out of resources there.
It would have likely improved the non-raid parses by 200-500 DPS (Breton is up by over 700 here right now).
Basically, the nerfs were 100% pointless. They just slightly widened the non-raid parse gap between Breton and Altmer.
Balance would literally been perfect with the old passive. Most likely +0.3% for Altmer in raid parse and +0.3% for Breton in non-raid parse. Instead, we have +1.4% for Breton in non-raid parse now.Edited by MLGProPlayer on February 8, 2019 8:46AM3 -
Olupajmibanan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭MLGProPlayer wrote: »Olupajmibanan wrote: »And now the main question from an Altmer complainer: Would old Spell Recharge generating magicka have changed the current results? Would Altmer DPS be even higher?
I really don't think so. The passive was too weak to drop Citrus Fillet or Absorb Magicka glyph. There was nothing wrong with the passive, helped with sustain a little (was +- the same as Khajit recovery passive), was useful in both PvP and PvE and it was not lorebreaking like this excrement we have now.
It would not have changed raid parses because you rarely run out of resources there.
It would have likely improved the non-raid parses by 200-500 DPS (Breton is up by over 700 here right now).
Basically, the nerfs were 100% pointless. They just slightly widened the non-raid parse gap between Breton and Altmer.
Balance would literally been perfect with the old passive. Most likely +0.3% for Altmer in raid parse and +0.3% for Breton in non-raid parse. Instead, we have +1.4% for Breton in non-raid parse now.
It's 200% pointless because it would not improve non-trial parses. OP does not state if any heavy attacks have been used during solo parses, but if no heavy attack has been used, adding conditional 96/s magicka sustain would make no difference in dps.
Not even saying that if it stays like this, most players will not switch to Bretons. Instead, they will ask healers and tanks to wear Symphony of Blades 24/7. Time to decon my Earthgore and Bogdan
Edited by Olupajmibanan on February 8, 2019 9:02AM4 -
MLGProPlayer✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Olupajmibanan wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »Olupajmibanan wrote: »And now the main question from an Altmer complainer: Would old Spell Recharge generating magicka have changed the current results? Would Altmer DPS be even higher?
I really don't think so. The passive was too weak to drop Citrus Fillet or Absorb Magicka glyph. There was nothing wrong with the passive, helped with sustain a little (was +- the same as Khajit recovery passive), was useful in both PvP and PvE and it was not lorebreaking like this excrement we have now.
It would not have changed raid parses because you rarely run out of resources there.
It would have likely improved the non-raid parses by 200-500 DPS (Breton is up by over 700 here right now).
Basically, the nerfs were 100% pointless. They just slightly widened the non-raid parse gap between Breton and Altmer.
Balance would literally been perfect with the old passive. Most likely +0.3% for Altmer in raid parse and +0.3% for Breton in non-raid parse. Instead, we have +1.4% for Breton in non-raid parse now.
It's 200% pointless because it would not improve non-trial parses. OP does not state if any heavy attacks have been used during solo parses, but if no heavy attack has been used, adding conditional 96/s magicka sustain would make no difference in dps.
Not even saying that if it stays like this, most players will not switch to Bretons. Instead, they will ask healers and tanks to wear Symphony of Blades 24/7. Time to decon my Earthgore and Bogdan
I would imagine they had to use a heavy attack or else there wouldn't be a difference between the two parses.
But you're right, it's also just as likely the old passive wouldn't have prevented that anyway and things wouldn't have even changed.
Here are the non-raid parses from the last PTS cycle (when Altmer had their old passive): https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/455092/raid-buffed-dps-comparison-of-each-race-by-class-tests-graphs-interpretation-and-final-score/p1
Breton was ahead by 414 DPS. They've regressed by about 350 DPS this patch. Whether that is because they needed an extra heavy attack now or because of random data variation in a small sample, I don't know.Edited by MLGProPlayer on February 8, 2019 9:44AM0 -
Kikke✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭A Stamina recovery passive for Altmers makes 0 sense, These parses are fake (they all use proc sets, the idiots) And without any links to buff uptimes on their parses they mean 0.Cleared Trials:
- vAA HM - vHRC HM - vSO HM - vMoL HM - vHoF HM - vAS HM - vCR HM -
"The journey of a thousand miles begins with one step, and a lot of bitching."
-Someone said it, I guess.1 -
MikaHR✭✭✭✭✭Wow, still some salty altmers that they are being brought ot everyone elses level! carry on!
Orcs need a nerf, should get +1000 stamina instead +2000 and that should be fine.MLGProPlayer wrote: »A stamina passive has no place on an Altmer. It's also only useful in PvP. It's just ZOS being lazy. If they don't want to give them magicka recovery, they can give them a different utility buff, something that is actually useful in both PvE and PvP, and makes sense for a magicka class.
And it's funny you mention that Breton and Altmer are the same when Altmer have much more in common with Dunmer (they have almost identical stats).
Every class can block and dodge.
So Argonian diseae resist passive is useless because it works only when enemy is using disease damage!
Altmer stamina passive is much more useful than agrnian, bosmer.. ... ..utility passive as its ALWAYS active.
Good job ZOS.Edited by MikaHR on February 8, 2019 9:48AM2 -
Lifemocker✭✭✭I think the Almer passive could be something like ”when damaged by elemental damage, restore x amount of magicka, can happen every six seconds”. Would make a bit more sense than restore stamina.
And once again these tests show that people are freaking out too much and the changes really matter only to the top score runs.
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RaptorRodeoGod✭✭✭✭✭It would have been nice to see Argonians in the magicka comparison, as that is the only race I play
Besides Orc, things seem pretty close overall.Add a Scribing skill that works like Arcanist beam.
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Veteran players have been alienated and disengaged from Overland since One Tamriel, due to the lack of difficulty, and pushed into dungeons and trials; the minority of content in the Elder Scrolls Online. We can't take the repetition anymore, fix Overland engagement for Vet players. I don't even care if it's not combat related anymore, just make Overland engaging again.
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Overland difficulty scaling is desperately needed. 10 years. 6 paid expansions. 25 DLCs. 41 game changing updates including One Tamriel, an overhaul of the game including a permanent CP160 gear cap and ridiculous power creep thereafter. I'm sick and tired of hearing about Cadwell Silver & Gold as a "you think you do but you don't" - tier deflection to any criticism regarding the lack of overland difficulty in the game. I'm bored of dungeons, I'm bored of trials; make a personal difficulty slider for overland. Make a self debuff mythic. Literally anything at this point.0 -
Morgul667✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Wow, still some salty altmers that they are being brought ot everyone elses level! carry on!
Orcs need a nerf, should get +1000 stamina instead +2000 and that should be fine.MLGProPlayer wrote: »A stamina passive has no place on an Altmer. It's also only useful in PvP. It's just ZOS being lazy. If they don't want to give them magicka recovery, they can give them a different utility buff, something that is actually useful in both PvE and PvP, and makes sense for a magicka class.
And it's funny you mention that Breton and Altmer are the same when Altmer have much more in common with Dunmer (they have almost identical stats).
Every class can block and dodge.
So Argonian diseae resist passive is useless because it works only when enemy is using disease damage!
Altmer stamina passive is much more useful than agrnian, bosmer.. ... ..utility passive as its ALWAYS active.
Good job ZOS.
I use disease glyph
What if necromancer use disease damage?0 -
MikaHR✭✭✭✭✭So what about that other 99,9999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999% of time you are not in the picture?
Face it, Altmer again got THE BEST utility passive.Edited by MikaHR on February 8, 2019 10:36AM1 -
Seraphayel✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Lifemocker wrote: »I think the Almer passive could be something like ”when damaged by elemental damage, restore x amount of magicka, can happen every six seconds”. Would make a bit more sense than restore stamina.
And once again these tests show that people are freaking out too much and the changes really matter only to the top score runs.
You could build up on this and name it "Racial Versatility" or so:
Whenever you are damaged by an elemental ability, restore X Magicka.
Whenever you are damaged by a physical, disease or poison ability, restore X Stamina.
Whenever you block an ability, restore X Health.
6 second CDEdited by Seraphayel on February 8, 2019 10:31AMPS5EUAldmeri Dominion- Khajiit Arcanist -0 -
MLGProPlayer✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Also, why is Breton > Altmer, but Shadow Altmer > Shadow Breton?
Shouldn't these be the same as neither race benefits more or less from Shadow Mundus?
The only explanation I can come up with is random variation, meaning that their DPS is actually the same in a raid parse.Edited by MLGProPlayer on February 8, 2019 10:35AM1 -
polgarah✭✭✭Thank you for your testing, you are doing a amazing job with this but I think your tests don't reflect the reality in this case. It's likely altmers become the highest dps in a perfect situation but the truth is that those perfect situations are far for most players. I've done my own tests in pts with a magplar and the sustain is just simply awful even with an absorb enchant. I ran vFV a few days ago without healer and the lack of sustain was a pain.
So, if you are an altmer is going to be quite harder run dungeons with 3dps, farm world bosses or just simply do some contest with pugs compared to other races
No sustain no damage.1 -
MikaHR✭✭✭✭✭MLGProPlayer wrote: »
It useful in ALL content and active 100% of the time....opposed to most other races utility passives that are highly situational like Argonian/Bosmer... .. ...
Well done ZOS.Edited by MikaHR on February 8, 2019 10:36AM1 -
MLGProPlayer✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭MLGProPlayer wrote: »
It useful in ALL content and active 100% of the time....opposed to most other races utility passives that are highly situational like Argonian/Bosmer... .. ...
Well done ZOS.
Now I know you're trolling.4 -
MLGProPlayer✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Thank you for your testing, you are doing a amazing job with this but I think your tests don't reflect the reality in this case. It's likely altmers become the highest dps in a perfect situation but the truth is that those perfect situations are far for most players. I've done my own tests in pts with a magplar and the sustain is just simply awful even with an absorb enchant. I ran vFV a few days ago without healer and the lack of sustain was a pain.
So, if you are an altmer is going to be quite harder run dungeons with 3dps, farm world bosses or just simply do some contest with pugs compared to other races
No sustain no damage.
Even in those tests, Altmer only slightly pulls ahead in the Shadow mundus raid test.
Breton is better in non-Shadow raid parses and non-raid parses.Edited by MLGProPlayer on February 8, 2019 10:39AM0 -
MLGProPlayer✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭And you claim you cant dodge/block in PvE.
Who is really trolling here?
What are you even talking about?
You don't dodge/block spam in PvE. You shield and pay attention to positioning. You only dodge/block when a mechanic requires it, and you never run out of stamina since you conserve it for mechanics.Edited by MLGProPlayer on February 8, 2019 10:42AM4 -
polgarah✭✭✭MLGProPlayer wrote: »Thank you for your testing, you are doing a amazing job with this but I think your tests don't reflect the reality in this case. It's likely altmers become the highest dps in a perfect situation but the truth is that those perfect situations are far for most players. I've done my own tests in pts with a magplar and the sustain is just simply awful even with an absorb enchant. I ran vFV a few days ago without healer and the lack of sustain was a pain.
So, if you are an altmer is going to be quite harder run dungeons with 3dps, farm world bosses or just simply do some contest with pugs compared to other races
No sustain no damage.
Even in those tests, Altmer only slightly pulls ahead in the Shadow mundus raid test.
Breton is better in non-Shadow raid parses and non-raid parses.
I don't care if altmers aren't "the bis race" but I'd like they still are competitive in every content with every class and, right now, I can't see that.
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