What aren't sorc welcomed in endgame competitive?

waitwhat · February 2019

Galarthor wrote: »

waitwhat wrote: »

Galarthor wrote: »

Tasear wrote: »

cpuScientist wrote: »

Sustain is to crap on sorc really is the biggest problem

I don't disagree but why doesn't dark conversion, cost reduction, and cost reduction after blocking help.

Dark Conversion takes too long, restores too little, can be interupted and on top of that takes up a slot when bar space is already and issue for sorcs due to the fact that their abilities are so one-dimensional.

Cost Reduction is simply not enough given the cost, else we wouldn't be having this conversation.

Also if we're talking about cost-reduction after blocking helping sustain, we should note that dark-conversion cannot be block-cast, so a sorc tank or dd is a sitting duck for a cleave or AoE during the cast time.

That and who but a tank is blocking on a sorc? In PvE pretty much nobody. And in PvP you cannot afford to randomly block, lose stamina to then lose even more stamina when using dark deal.

Block can save you from some AoEs, and is mandatory for Mantikora bleeds in vSO, but the reduction doesn't meaningfully contribute to sorc DD sustain.

Shantu · February 2019

I have had no issues running my MagSorc in vet endgame content. As long as I stay alive and contribute a decent dps no one gives seems to mind. But I don't run for scores. The shield loss was a unneeded gut punch and sustain is a pain, but I seem to manage. The rotation is fairly easy and I can deal with boss mechanics and still do some acceptable damage.

Tasear · February 2019

Shantu wrote: »

I have had no issues running my MagSorc in vet endgame content. As long as I stay alive and contribute a decent dps no one gives seems to mind. But I don't run for scores. The shield loss was a unneeded gut punch and sustain is a pain, but I seem to manage. The rotation is fairly easy and I can deal with boss mechanics and still do some acceptable damage.

Yeah I run with sorcs all time, but I don't play endgame competitive. I just want to talk about issue that cause I care about health of gameplay.

The issue does exist. Sorcs don't sustain well with the tools they have compared to others. The cast time on dark conversion results in lower numbers.

Their utilitiy for groupplay isn't useful in raids because concussion uptime is low for sorcs compared to using IA or other sources to get minor vulnerability. This also connects to shock a endgame competitive issue with flame vs shock. Off balance I say it too low too.

Storm anntoach isn't giving enough utilitiy in larger groups with only 1 Ally getting major berserk.

Aoe DPS if far less important than single DPS which makes Sorc fall behind more.

Juhasow · February 2019

Because in "competitive endgame" it's all about number 1 setup for each role even if that number 1 is just 1% ahead over the others. Magsorc is simply not number 1 anymore. Dont get me wrong there are things that sorc could get improved a little but even with that if he wont be number 1 meta setup he wont be popular in end game content.

WuffyCerulei · February 2019

I guess they just don’t do enough damage for those score-pushing people. Go all stamblades/magblades for dps. Not including that one sorc off heals for conduit. But next patch, I’m hoping that changes. Screw the nightblade meta.

Tasear · February 2019

Juhasow wrote: »

Because in "competitive endgame" it's all about number 1 setup for each role even if that number 1 is just 1% ahead over the others. Magsorc is simply not number 1 anymore. Dont get me wrong there are things that sorc could get improved a little but even with that if he wont be number 1 meta setup he wont be popular in end game content.

It's about balance too. There is a lot of issues going on for Sorcs. The fact that they don't give enough to team I think is a gladly issue since overload changes. Not to say dps used it for DPS but now there's not a reason why utilitiy for Sorcs haven't been adjusted.

RebornV3x · February 2019

Where do i begin.
1. Sorcerer is mediocre compared to every other class at every role in the game
simple ask yourself what can a Sorcerer do better than any other class.
are sorcs the best DPS class? no ( not bad but as a raid leader why settle for less) .Are sorcs the best healing class? no. are sorcs the best tanks? debatable but no etc...

The only thing sorcs really had over any other DPS was its survivability and with recent nerfs isn't much now.

Why would anyone take a class into a raid that has a lower dps potential and now has lower survivability compared to other dps classes?
sorc has sustain issues unlike other dps classes...

firedrgn · February 2019

Sorcs can compete with any endgame crafters.

Morgul667 · February 2019

But everybody wants to nerf sorc

Juhasow · February 2019

Tasear wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

Because in "competitive endgame" it's all about number 1 setup for each role even if that number 1 is just 1% ahead over the others. Magsorc is simply not number 1 anymore. Dont get me wrong there are things that sorc could get improved a little but even with that if he wont be number 1 meta setup he wont be popular in end game content.

It's about balance too. There is a lot of issues going on for Sorcs. The fact that they don't give enough to team I think is a gladly issue since overload changes. Not to say dps used it for DPS but now there's not a reason why utilitiy for Sorcs haven't been adjusted.

I actually said it's about the balance. Balance and people mentality. It doesnt matter what improvements sorc will get to a specific role playstyle. if he wont be number 1 at that role he wont be "welcomed in competitive endgame".

Tremors · February 2019

I don't feel like the issue lies in the sorc tbh. They have good utility and a pretty smooth rotation (lack of sustain which the new breton fixes so they could buff Unholy Knowledge from 5 to 10% and their sustain is literally fixed). They have seen some nice little buffs with frags, atro, etc over the last few patches. However, passive minor berserk at an easy 100% up-time is pretty silly when attached to a class spec.

A good question is, why would you bring a sorc into a raid when a nightblade has better sustain, damage, minor berserk, movement speed, self healing AND technically group utility because of the slayer sets. Nightblade is basically a DPS that doesn't require buffs from support (penetration and wpn/spell damage aside).

You bring a sorc or a templar into a raid of Nightblade DPS and you have to use slimecraw, which now you're losing 3k DPS from a monster set. Or you ask your healer to slot a skill for you only (prayer) #removeberserkfromnightbladeisastart

Beardimus · February 2019

The funny thing is most forum warriors still say Sorc OP lol

Signia · February 2019

because most sorcerers are like this

Edziu · February 2019

Signia wrote: »

because most sorcerers are like this

xD

and as to this most sorcs dont know or are ignorants who dont care about control of their pets

in some trials, especially on vmol with boss twins non-controlled sorc pets are most annyoing thing here - as tank is supossed to chain right adds to him with boss so adds whil get burned fast at boss but then someone savage pet is not controlled and this sorc while activating his pet for dps he is also stunning add far away from boss becasue pet was not controlle to attack boss...and ehre he is attacking and stunning single add whiel prventing him to be chained to tank because of cc immunity - this is main reason why even when sorc was in meta sorc still was one of most hated classes on trials

Villaine · February 2019

I wish sometimes that my pet was just a floating orb or something similar to the animation of Inner Light. None of them are appealing to the eye and other players constantly complain about visibility when Matriarch is out. Hysterically and sort of sadly the matriarch caused the death of several group members during various Veteran dungeons because their screen was blocked and they failed to dodge incoming damage. Or so I was told...

Tasear · February 2019

Juhasow wrote: »

Tasear wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

Because in "competitive endgame" it's all about number 1 setup for each role even if that number 1 is just 1% ahead over the others. Magsorc is simply not number 1 anymore. Dont get me wrong there are things that sorc could get improved a little but even with that if he wont be number 1 meta setup he wont be popular in end game content.

It's about balance too. There is a lot of issues going on for Sorcs. The fact that they don't give enough to team I think is a gladly issue since overload changes. Not to say dps used it for DPS but now there's not a reason why utilitiy for Sorcs haven't been adjusted.

I actually said it's about the balance. Balance and people mentality. It doesnt matter what improvements sorc will get to a specific role playstyle. if he wont be number 1 at that role he wont be "welcomed in competitive endgame".

I feel differently. They don't have to be number one is but if their skills offered more group utilities like storm atro should be a Sorc dps asset in trials but why isn't ir enough?

Tasear · February 2019

Villaine wrote: »

I wish sometimes that my pet was just a floating orb or something similar to the animation of Inner Light. None of them are appealing to the eye and other players constantly complain about visibility when Matriarch is out. Hysterically and sort of sadly the matriarch caused the death of several group members during various Veteran dungeons because their screen was blocked and they failed to dodge incoming damage. Or so I was told...

Make an appeal to crown store subsection for pet skins. You have my personal support in it.

Tasear · February 2019

Edziu wrote: »

Signia wrote: »

because most sorcerers are like this

xD

and as to this most sorcs dont know or are ignorants who dont care about control of their pets

in some trials, especially on vmol with boss twins non-controlled sorc pets are most annyoing thing here - as tank is supossed to chain right adds to him with boss so adds whil get burned fast at boss but then someone savage pet is not controlled and this sorc while activating his pet for dps he is also stunning add far away from boss becasue pet was not controlle to attack boss...and ehre he is attacking and stunning single add whiel prventing him to be chained to tank because of cc immunity - this is main reason why even when sorc was in meta sorc still was one of most hated classes on trials

If only we had better controls for pets. I pity console pets.

Edziu · February 2019

Tasear wrote: »

Edziu wrote: »

Signia wrote: »

because most sorcerers are like this

xD

and as to this most sorcs dont know or are ignorants who dont care about control of their pets

in some trials, especially on vmol with boss twins non-controlled sorc pets are most annyoing thing here - as tank is supossed to chain right adds to him with boss so adds whil get burned fast at boss but then someone savage pet is not controlled and this sorc while activating his pet for dps he is also stunning add far away from boss becasue pet was not controlle to attack boss...and ehre he is attacking and stunning single add whiel prventing him to be chained to tank because of cc immunity - this is main reason why even when sorc was in meta sorc still was one of most hated classes on trials

If only we had better controls for pets. I pity console pets.

yes console players have even worse with this to control them but on pc we still can use button to command pet which is using friend since not long ago as he got informed there is option in controls for this and when he remember about this we have no problem with his pet in content

and here on pc we have more or noobs on pet sorcs who dont know about this option or jsut more ignorants who dont care about controling their pets as their total dps is still on same ground so they dont care what their pet is doing...they care just about dps numbers which are fine for them

Galarthor · February 2019

Beardimus wrote: »

The funny thing is most forum warriors still say Sorc OP lol

That's b/c most forum warriors are so bad that they cannot kill a class that is still somewhat playable.

Juhasow · February 2019

Tasear wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

Tasear wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

Because in "competitive endgame" it's all about number 1 setup for each role even if that number 1 is just 1% ahead over the others. Magsorc is simply not number 1 anymore. Dont get me wrong there are things that sorc could get improved a little but even with that if he wont be number 1 meta setup he wont be popular in end game content.

It's about balance too. There is a lot of issues going on for Sorcs. The fact that they don't give enough to team I think is a gladly issue since overload changes. Not to say dps used it for DPS but now there's not a reason why utilitiy for Sorcs haven't been adjusted.

I actually said it's about the balance. Balance and people mentality. It doesnt matter what improvements sorc will get to a specific role playstyle. if he wont be number 1 at that role he wont be "welcomed in competitive endgame".

I feel differently. They don't have to be number one is but if their skills offered more group utilities like storm atro should be a Sorc dps asset in trials but why isn't ir enough?

What is group utility nightblade offers ?

As I said already it doesnt matter will sorc get utility or not. If they wont be number 1 they wont be welcomed in "competitive game end". Storm atro is not enough because group of nightblades will do more DPS without that synergy then group of sorcs with it because whehn magsorcs can have 25% more dmg done for 8 seconds once every 50 seconds nightblades can apply 20% more dmg taken debuff (which is stronger then major berserk because it calculates after previous percentage buffs) with higher uptime. And pushing sorc away from being straight DD spec into some utility based setup will push it further away from "competitive game end" for anything else then just that 1 person providing buffs.

dovakiin5574 · February 2019

I think your issue is running with the wrong end game groups. All the ones I'm a part of allow sorcs and magdens