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Can ZOS explain why Altmer is the lowest magicka DPS?
MLGProPlayer
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@ZOS_BrianWheeler
@ZOS_Gilliam
The current state of the Altmer race seems to contradict your philosophy on them being the "magicka damage" race. As paying customers, I think we are owed an explanation. Maybe you guys can share your internal builds that are outparsing everyone else's.
@ZOS_Gilliam
The current state of the Altmer race seems to contradict your philosophy on them being the "magicka damage" race. As paying customers, I think we are owed an explanation. Maybe you guys can share your internal builds that are outparsing everyone else's.
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MLGProPlayer✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Even before today's massive nerfs to Altmer, Altmer were the third highest magicka DPS race, but at least they were competitive. They are no longer competitive. Dunmer were never competitive and today's small buffs don't help.
What does the lore say about Khajiit and Breton being the top magicka DPS? With rumours that Lawrence Schick is leaving, it seems ZOS is already throwing lore out the window.
Also, Altmer are now a hybrid race. I'm pretty sure the lore doesn't support this either.Edited by MLGProPlayer on February 10, 2019 1:15PM14 -
MLGProPlayer✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭The two top magicka DPS races from live just dropped to the bottom. Altmer was at least competitive with Breton and Khajiit before these changes, but now they drop to uselessness along with Dunmer.
They've now ensured that literally 95% of magicka DPS players have to race change. At least the Altmer players were safe before. This is such an obvious cash grab it isn't even funny.Edited by MLGProPlayer on February 4, 2019 9:35PM11 -
John_Falstaff✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Don't forget that their max stat bonus will now also scale by 20% with CP bonus, so more max stats - bigger buff. Granted, didn't expect them to rework the sustain mechanism in such an odd way.2 -
MLGProPlayer✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭John_Falstaff wrote: »Don't forget that their max stat bonus will now also scale by 20% with CP bonus, so more max stats - bigger buff. Granted, didn't expect them to rework the sustain mechanism in such an odd way.
Breton and Khajiit get the same buff. Anyway you slice it, they will not be used in endgame content.1 -
zvavi✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭how are 2000 magicka and 258 spell damage hybrid? also class ability for stamina gain if you are stamina, please, stamina toons dont use that many class abilities, it is literally useless on them.
and the tests i have seen were mostly balanced (with bretons and altmers > dunmer and khajit). so enlighten me with your source.Edited by zvavi on February 4, 2019 9:47PM2 -
MLGProPlayer✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭how are 2000 magicka and 258 spell damage hybrid? also class ability for stamina gain if you are stamina, please, stamina toons dont use that many class abilities, it is literally useless on them.
and the tests i have seen were mostly balanced (with bretons and altmers > dunmer and khajit). so enlighten me with your source.
Extensive testing was done on racial balance already: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/455092/raid-buffed-dps-comparison-of-each-race-by-class-tests-graphs-interpretation-and-final-score/p1
Altmer and Dunmer were behind Breton across the board and behind Khajiit in templar and NB tests.
These nerfs just widen the gap.
The biggest reason why is that Breton get to use Berserker glyph while Altmer have to use a magicka recovery glyph. The spell damage from berserker glyph (452) is higher than the Altmer's SD passive (258). This results in Breton have more damage. Khajiit outparse them because crit is simply stronger than SD in the current meta.
They are a hybrid race because their Spell Recharge passive restores stamina as of today.Edited by MLGProPlayer on February 4, 2019 9:54PM4 -
MLGProPlayer✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭TheInfernalRage wrote: »Yeah, I'm also surprised with this post.
They had the lowest DPS in the first round of PTS. Altmer were just heavily nerfed today, dropping them down even further. Dunmer were slightly buffed, but are still last place.
Following today's nerfs, Altmer no longer regenerate magicka, but regenerate stamina instead (your lowest resource).Edited by MLGProPlayer on February 4, 2019 9:55PM8 -
Kalle_Demos✭✭✭✭✭The same can be said of Bosmer, Orc and other changes to Breton and Khajiit. Many of these changes just don't make any sense, the greatly undermine lore and do not achieve balance. This is all just more of the same: Heavy handed Nerfs while not listening to the players.
"If I am to be Queen, I must look fear in the face and conquer it. How can I ask my people to have faith in me if I don't have faith in myself?" - Queen Ayrenn7 -
MLGProPlayer✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Kalle_Demos wrote: »The same can be said of Bosmer, Orc and other changes to Breton and Khajiit. Many of these changes just don't make any sense, the greatly undermine lore and do not achieve balance. This is all just more of the same: Heavy handed Nerfs while not listening to the players.
I'm now confident more than ever that ZOS is only doing this to sell race change tokens.
They took the two top magicka DPS classes on live, knowing that 95% of players use them, and nerfed them into utter oblivion.
Rather than buy race change tokens though, I'm going to take a break from this game. I'm also not pre-ordring Elsweyr since the Khajiit overbuffs seem to be a ploy to sell that ***. This game is a joke.14 -
MLGProPlayer✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Now we know why Lawrence Schick is leaving. He wasn't going to waste his time arguing with ZOS why Altmer and Dunmer shouldn't be the worst magicka classes.23 -
TheInfernalRage✭✭✭✭✭I actually like the changes. But they do need to increase the spell damage in the Altmer in order for them to standout.
It's difficult to balance vis-a-vis the lore because in Tamriel, you become good at something by training and not just through passive abilities. I already pointed out that Imperials like Abnur Tharn or Varen Aquilarios are very powerful mages. This cannot be seen in the passive abilities of Imperials.
I think, if we are to be closer to the lore, passive abilities should not in any way affect damage dealing, healing and tanking. Lorewise, there are many battlemages in Tamriel. Even that high elf woman in the Summerset trailer is using spells while using a sing-handed weapon instead of a staff.Edited by TheInfernalRage on February 4, 2019 10:14PM3 -
Cloudless✭✭✭✭✭MLGProPlayer wrote: »Now we know why Lawrence Schick is leaving. He wasn't going to waste his time arguing with ZOS why Altmer and Dunmer shouldn't be the worst magicka classes.
Yeah, that has to be why. Clearly.7 -
MLGProPlayer✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭TheInfernalRage wrote: »I actually like the changes. But they do need to increase the spell damage in the Altmer in order for them to standout.
This is a must. They currenly have less spell damage AND less sustain than Breton. There is zero reason to use Altmer.0 -
JJBoomer✭✭✭✭✭MLGProPlayer wrote: »TheInfernalRage wrote: »I actually like the changes. But they do need to increase the spell damage in the Altmer in order for them to standout.
This is a must. They currenly have less spell damage AND less sustain than Breton. There is zero reason to use Altmer.
that completely sucks. they were out to make it so altmer stood out with magicka, now they're worthless with it. seems very counterproductive to their initial goal with the racial passive changes. this convinces me they have no idea how their own game works.5 -
MLGProPlayer✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭MLGProPlayer wrote: »TheInfernalRage wrote: »I actually like the changes. But they do need to increase the spell damage in the Altmer in order for them to standout.
This is a must. They currenly have less spell damage AND less sustain than Breton. There is zero reason to use Altmer.
that completely sucks. they were out to make it so altmer stood out with magicka, now they're worthless with it. seems very counterproductive to their initial goal with the racial passive changes. this convinces me they have no idea how their own game works.
It's far more likely they are trying to sell race change tokens/Adventurer Packs. Altmer were only slightly behind Breton and Khajiit before today. It was so close that you didn't need to race change from Altmer. After today, you'll definitely need to race change if you are an endgame player. Dunmer needed to race change from day 1. Dunmer and Altmer were the top magicka DPS races on live, so knocking them both out of the meta seemed to be their goal, forcing the maximum number of player to race change.Edited by MLGProPlayer on February 4, 2019 11:23PM2 -
ll_Rev✭✭✭✭Altmer definitely needs to be changed, Dummer should stay the same they don’t need to be bis for magicka and Stam, but strong enough for both. Khajiit should be changed to match dunmer right now they are a little too strong for both mag and Stam.Edited by ll_Rev on February 4, 2019 11:42PM1 -
MartiniDaniels✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭MLGProPlayer wrote: »TheInfernalRage wrote: »I actually like the changes. But they do need to increase the spell damage in the Altmer in order for them to standout.
This is a must. They currenly have less spell damage AND less sustain than Breton. There is zero reason to use Altmer.
that completely sucks. they were out to make it so altmer stood out with magicka, now they're worthless with it. seems very counterproductive to their initial goal with the racial passive changes. this convinces me they have no idea how their own game works.
Just look at FO76.. bethesda is dead as a company for players. Probably after no financial success with previous high-quality games like Prey and Wolfenstein, sales department runs the show. Free tokens is probably masked way to force people buy adventurer upgrade. I mean if you dont have token, you'll probably will stick with your race if you are not in top guild, 3000 crowns is not a small sum to sacrifice your character. But now as person get "free" tokens, all that left is just to buy adventurer pack which applies to ALL 3 tokens, so looks as a good deal -> clever cash grab.5 -
validifyedneb18_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭Can you explain how you came to this conclusion? Especially without the PTS having been up since the 4.3.2 notes.EU: Magden, Magknight, Stamsorc(*2), Magsorc
NA: Magplar, Magden, PotatoBlade3 -
MLGProPlayer✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭FlamingBeard wrote: »It's not, Dunmer is. lol
The difference between them is virtually non-existent now. They're both in the gutter.6 -
MLGProPlayer✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭validifyedneb18_ESO wrote: »Can you explain how you came to this conclusion? Especially without the PTS having been up since the 4.3.2 notes.
They were already slightly behind Breton and Khajiit on the last PTS. They just got hit with nerfs. That stands to reason they can only drop further behind.Edited by MLGProPlayer on February 5, 2019 10:54PM10 -
validifyedneb18_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭MLGProPlayer wrote: »validifyedneb18_ESO wrote: »Can you explain how you came to this conclusion? Especially without the PTS having been up since the 4.3.2 notes.
They were already slightly behind Breton and Khajiit on the last PTS. They just got hit with nerfs. That stands to reason they can only drop further behind.
Right. And how did the CP change factor into this theory of yours?EU: Magden, Magknight, Stamsorc(*2), Magsorc
NA: Magplar, Magden, PotatoBlade2 -
MLGProPlayer✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭validifyedneb18_ESO wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »validifyedneb18_ESO wrote: »Can you explain how you came to this conclusion? Especially without the PTS having been up since the 4.3.2 notes.
They were already slightly behind Breton and Khajiit on the last PTS. They just got hit with nerfs. That stands to reason they can only drop further behind.
Right. And how did the CP change factor into this theory of yours?
Breton got buffed just as much as Altmer so no net change. Breton is still abead.
Khajiit also got direct buffs and the Shadow buff which should keep them ahead.11 -
LiquidPony✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭MLGProPlayer wrote: »validifyedneb18_ESO wrote: »Can you explain how you came to this conclusion? Especially without the PTS having been up since the 4.3.2 notes.
They were already slightly behind Breton and Khajiit on the last PTS. They just got hit with nerfs. That stands to reason they can only drop further behind.
Didn't they also get a small buff from the CP +20% max stat bonus applying to their +2000 max magicka?
In the context of the solo or duo-buffed parses people have posted, did Altmer *need* the additional sustain from the Spell Recharge passive? As far as I'm aware people were running the same setup on Altmer as they were on Dunmer and Khajiit (an Absorb Magicka glyph).
Khajiit are probably "BiS" on magplars and magblades (but not by much), but what about classes that don't have the +10% critical damage bonus built-in?0 -
grannas211✭✭✭✭✭
✭LiquidPony wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »validifyedneb18_ESO wrote: »Can you explain how you came to this conclusion? Especially without the PTS having been up since the 4.3.2 notes.
They were already slightly behind Breton and Khajiit on the last PTS. They just got hit with nerfs. That stands to reason they can only drop further behind.
Didn't they also get a small buff from the CP +20% max stat bonus applying to their +2000 max magicka?
In the context of the solo or duo-buffed parses people have posted, did Altmer *need* the additional sustain from the Spell Recharge passive? As far as I'm aware people were running the same setup on Altmer as they were on Dunmer and Khajiit (an Absorb Magicka glyph).
Khajiit are probably "BiS" on magplars and magblades (but not by much), but what about classes that don't have the +10% critical damage bonus built-in?
Breton has the same 2000 magicka. No?12 -
MLGProPlayer✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭LiquidPony wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »validifyedneb18_ESO wrote: »Can you explain how you came to this conclusion? Especially without the PTS having been up since the 4.3.2 notes.
They were already slightly behind Breton and Khajiit on the last PTS. They just got hit with nerfs. That stands to reason they can only drop further behind.
Didn't they also get a small buff from the CP +20% max stat bonus applying to their +2000 max magicka?
In the context of the solo or duo-buffed parses people have posted, did Altmer *need* the additional sustain from the Spell Recharge passive? As far as I'm aware people were running the same setup on Altmer as they were on Dunmer and Khajiit (an Absorb Magicka glyph).
Khajiit are probably "BiS" on magplars and magblades (but not by much), but what about classes that don't have the +10% critical damage bonus built-in?
Breton gets the same CP buff as Altmer, so they stay ahead.
And Khajiit got direct buffs this patch in addition to Shadow mundus being buffed. That should keep them ahead.Edited by MLGProPlayer on February 5, 2019 11:06PM7 -
Ragnaroek93✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭MLGProPlayer wrote: »FlamingBeard wrote: »It's not, Dunmer is. lol
The difference between them is virtually non-existent now. They're both in the gutter.
Somehow all elven races are trash now. Maybe Wrobel was the genius in the team who prevented the worst...I used to think that PvP was a tragedy, but now I realize, it's a comedy.20 -
bardx86✭✭✭✭✭
✭LiquidPony wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »validifyedneb18_ESO wrote: »Can you explain how you came to this conclusion? Especially without the PTS having been up since the 4.3.2 notes.
They were already slightly behind Breton and Khajiit on the last PTS. They just got hit with nerfs. That stands to reason they can only drop further behind.
Didn't they also get a small buff from the CP +20% max stat bonus applying to their +2000 max magicka?
In the context of the solo or duo-buffed parses people have posted, did Altmer *need* the additional sustain from the Spell Recharge passive? As far as I'm aware people were running the same setup on Altmer as they were on Dunmer and Khajiit (an Absorb Magicka glyph).
Khajiit are probably "BiS" on magplars and magblades (but not by much), but what about classes that don't have the +10% critical damage bonus built-in?
Dunmer has 1875 magicka very little difference in the them now.Edited by bardx86 on February 5, 2019 11:06PM0
