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Some Blunt Advice for Zos I don't expect to be taken.
RubyTigress
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A word to your financial decision makers, ZOS.
You need to stop verifying accounts with the full subscription cost immediately.
I say this as someone who made a conscious choice to not activite her account at go live because I know MMO launches are dodgy things, and stuff happens. I wanted to see how you all handle the inevitable cluster____. What I am seeing doesn't make me think I'm going to be making a long term investement at this point.
On the technical side, I think you're doing as well as can reasonably be expected.
On the financial side, you need to have your heads examined. I don't care if every other MMO does it this way (and I don't know they do), you are bleeding good will at the very beginning of what should be a honeymoon.
I know, you want to lock people in early. You're afraid that "free" month will be up, and folks will have burned through. You're looking at that month the wrong way. It's not free, it's LEAD time to get folks to fall in love with what is, candidly, an amazing game.
And you're burning it with blowing up your customer service lines and community with that validation charge, which you don't actually need to know what revenue stream to project.
I don't expect this advice to be taken, frankly. This topic may very well get locked. I tried to think of any other less public way to offer this advice to make it more easily digested, but I got nothing.
So, in a desperate attempt to stop the fevered lunacy, I'm posting. And waiting to see if there's a game left worth subscribing to in a few weeks.
You need to stop verifying accounts with the full subscription cost immediately.
I say this as someone who made a conscious choice to not activite her account at go live because I know MMO launches are dodgy things, and stuff happens. I wanted to see how you all handle the inevitable cluster____. What I am seeing doesn't make me think I'm going to be making a long term investement at this point.
On the technical side, I think you're doing as well as can reasonably be expected.
On the financial side, you need to have your heads examined. I don't care if every other MMO does it this way (and I don't know they do), you are bleeding good will at the very beginning of what should be a honeymoon.
- Verify accounts with the smallest possible transaction amount, simply confirm they are valid.
- Add days to the 30 for anyone who got their transaction bounced. however many days they lost, make good on them.
I know, you want to lock people in early. You're afraid that "free" month will be up, and folks will have burned through. You're looking at that month the wrong way. It's not free, it's LEAD time to get folks to fall in love with what is, candidly, an amazing game.
And you're burning it with blowing up your customer service lines and community with that validation charge, which you don't actually need to know what revenue stream to project.
I don't expect this advice to be taken, frankly. This topic may very well get locked. I tried to think of any other less public way to offer this advice to make it more easily digested, but I got nothing.
So, in a desperate attempt to stop the fevered lunacy, I'm posting. And waiting to see if there's a game left worth subscribing to in a few weeks.
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Xexpo✭✭✭✭✭You are comical.
Maybe you should apply for a job at ZOS so you can more readily share your wisdom.Kiki Dickson ~~~ Dixmanian Devil ~~~ Cornelius Buckshank Jr.
Histy-Fitz ~~~ Boozemer ~~~ Chace X'expo
Lluvia De'Fuego ~~~ Shakes Spear
Macro and Cheese NA/PC1 -
KidKablam✭✭✭I'm not being facetious or sardonic here. I really don't understand what the issue is unless you're really not able to pay? Aren't you able to still cancel at the end of the month and not be charged for the month? I'm not getting it. I'm trying to, though.1 -
RubyTigress✭✭✭The issue is that they do need to verify the account being used on the subsciption is valid. Similar to what happens say at the gas pump when you use a card to authorize a fillup.
Before the gas is dispensed, a message is sent to the account with some minimal amt to verify it's valid .
The problem here is, instead of using a minimal amt, the ZOS verification is for the full amt of the subscription-for a 6 mon subscriber (which I presume they'd LIKE to see a lot of) that's quite a large hit.
It is supposed to be reversed once approved, but it is causing some folks very big issues, and it's not something they actually need to do at this stage.
They've already been paid for this first month when folks bought the game.1 -
RubyTigress✭✭✭Also a relevant factor is that they are bringing in, hopefully, a fair number of folks who may be new to mmos, and the subscription model.
It's possible that it's not as big an issue as it appears from the posts we're seeing, but it's big enough they had to publically state how folks should handle it if they get their charge rejected, so probably big.
And very high profile.Edited by RubyTigress on April 8, 2014 3:51PM1 -
I've had this charge on my account for both myself and my wife for 2 days now, so $30 on top of the $160 we already forked over. This is an issue because we literally need this money to eat as payday approaches, and it is inaccessible for no good reason.3 -
epoling✭✭✭✭Because of the threads on here a lot of people suddenly became aware of a very common business practice. The totally over-the-top reaction to the pre-authorization thing has turned normally calm, rational people into rabid animals. They still don't realize that many transactions they do every day with their credit card or debit card have a pre-auth. Most of these folks would not have known about this, entered their information and actually had fun with the game if they hadn't read these foaming at the mouth type posts. The internet is great at generating hysteria. Now look at all the crazy misinformation in them - somehow not getting a sub set up right now denies use of the 30 free days, that Zenimax is somehow profiting off this, that there is theft, scamming, "shady business practices", etc going on. The litany of exaggerated junk going on in these threads scares me. What does it say about the human race when a simple thing like this can have such a horrible effect on people? And of course, it really hasn't hurt too bad. You still can't move through Daggerfall without seeing tons of people anytime I log in.3 -
Epoling, I am completely aware of this practice, but I have never, ever seen a transaction authorization for the full amount of a purchase that you did not even make, let alone one that hangs around for DAYS.0
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RubyTigress✭✭✭Validating the account-perfectly understandable business practice.
The full amt being taken out IS unusual, if not completely unprecedented.
|And that decision is hurting the launch at a critical time.3 -
sotonin✭✭✭The problem with using the gas analogy is there's a huge difference here. In the gas scenario you are consuming the product immediately that you will be paying for. Thats not the case with ESO you've ALREADY paid for the first 30 days, so they are validating our account for nothing. They should not require you to setup a subscription and validate until they are actually going to charge your card. It's kind of silly on their part too. Merchant accounts are required to validate cards and there are limits in place etc, it's not just free and they can willy nilly validate all the cards they want. I'm sure they have a huge limit, but still. it's just sillyness.RubyTigress wrote: »The issue is that they do need to verify the account being used on the subsciption is valid. Similar to what happens say at the gas pump when you use a card to authorize a fillup.
Before the gas is dispensed, a message is sent to the account with some minimal amt to verify it's valid .
The problem here is, instead of using a minimal amt, the ZOS verification is for the full amt of the subscription-for a 6 mon subscriber (which I presume they'd LIKE to see a lot of) that's quite a large hit.
It is supposed to be reversed once approved, but it is causing some folks very big issues, and it's not something they actually need to do at this stage.
They've already been paid for this first month when folks bought the game.
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_chase_✭The problem I had was the requirement to setup the subscription in order to play, even though my original pre-order included 30 days of game time. For me it wasn't a matter of funds, or GTCs, or full amount being used for the auth. They tried to force me to do something that shouldn't be required at all. It's like some cult making you do pointless, meaningless things in order to break you, to show you you're not in control. I don't like that.
That's why I uninstalled the game, requested a refund, and will never touch anything with ZeniMax label ever again.5 -
RubyTigress✭✭✭I think it is common and standard practice in MMOs to validate the account when a sub is set up. It's a pain, yes, but a reasonable precaution against fraud imo.
But, as you and I pointed out-this month has already been paid for. So only a minimal validation should really be needed.0 -
Chase, what you are describing is a common, almost universal tactic for subscriptions of any type. You get a free month, but in order to get your free month you must first set up a subscription and then manually cancel it to avoid charge.
The only difference between what usually happens and what is happening here is the ridiculous pre-authorization charge that sticks to your account.0 -
RubyTigress✭✭✭The problem I had was the requirement to setup the subscription in order to play, even though my original pre-order included 30 days of game time. For me it wasn't a matter of funds, or GTCs, or full amount being used for the auth. They tried to force me to do something that shouldn't be required at all. It's like some cult making you do pointless, meaningless things in order to break you, to show you you're not in control. I don't like that.
That's why I uninstalled the game, requested a refund, and will never touch anything with ZeniMax label ever again.
I believe it's standard for subscription only MMOs, though I haven't done that many.
Once the account is activated, it is possible to cancel the subscription. (Well with great difficulty if you're dealing with SWTOR, which is one reason I'm not subscribing to it ever again) and get the time already paid for.
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Kaiem✭✭Because of the threads on here a lot of people suddenly became aware of a very common business practice. The totally over-the-top reaction to the pre-authorization thing has turned normally calm, rational people into rabid animals. They still don't realize that many transactions they do every day with their credit card or debit card have a pre-auth. Most of these folks would not have known about this, entered their information and actually had fun with the game if they hadn't read these foaming at the mouth type posts. The internet is great at generating hysteria. Now look at all the crazy misinformation in them - somehow not getting a sub set up right now denies use of the 30 free days, that Zenimax is somehow profiting off this, that there is theft, scamming, "shady business practices", etc going on. The litany of exaggerated junk going on in these threads scares me. What does it say about the human race when a simple thing like this can have such a horrible effect on people? And of course, it really hasn't hurt too bad. You still can't move through Daggerfall without seeing tons of people anytime I log in.
Whilst lots of businesses put through authorizations to check the validity of a payment method very few put through the full amount, most just out a nominal on through. Putting on the full amount ties up those funds until the authorization is either manually removed by zenimaxs merchant bank or drops off manually 1-2 weeks later.
People's issue is that holding a full subscription amount is unnecessary and potential costly for them. I selected a 6 month subscription plan on Sunday and Zenimaxs put in an authorisation for the full amount which is still currently on there. Happily I got paid on the Monday else when my phone bill went out today I wouldn't have had the money to cover it. This would have meant I was charged by my bank for bouncing a direct debit and charged by my phone company for missing a payment, all because zenimax haven't followed standard practice of using a nominal amount to authorize a payment method.
You are correct that many people don't understand about authorizations and how common they are but I worked for 6 years within the banking system and understand very well how they work. The only times I have ever seen authorizations for the full amount on peoples account are when something or someone has messed up half way through a transaction and it has never completed.4 -
Its quite simple really... The credit charge is made then immediately canceled. But because of automated systems and the ever so constant and stagnating bank systems they often "hiccup".
If the charge does not go away then simply call your bank, not ZOS. The bank is the only one that can lift the auth, since ZOS do not get this money as several people claim... However they normally just tell you to wait it out...
The problem with the gas analogy is that the validation can be anywhere between 1-100$ no matter the final price.
Same with restaurants... They normally authorize about 20% more then what the meal costs because they always expect tips. What goes out of the account is normally less...
Im guessing that using the authorization method is cheaper because once its authorized a reauthorization can be made within 115% of the original amount for the actual payment within a certain timelimit which is 30 days i believe...0 -
Kaiem✭✭Spawnsplitter wrote: »Its quite simple really... The credit charge is made then immediately canceled. But because of automated systems and the ever so constant and stagnating bank systems they often "hiccup".
If the charge does not go away then simply call your bank, not ZOS. The bank is the only one that can lift the auth, since ZOS do not get this money as several people claim... However they normally just tell you to wait it out...
The problem with the gas analogy is that the validation can be anywhere between 1-100$ no matter the final price.
Same with restaurants... They normally authorize about 20% more then what the meal costs because they always expect tips. What goes out of the account is normally less...
Im guessing that using the authorization method is cheaper because once its authorized a reauthorization can be made within 115% of the original amount for the actual payment within a certain timelimit which is 30 days i believe...
When an authroisation is put on an account it technically can be claimed at any point up until the time the merchant cancels it. Whilst some banks may cancel authorizations for a customer others won't as they can't be sure the company won't then claim that money making the bank liable as they authorised it.
It is up to zenimax and their merchant bank to cancel an authorisation they have placed.
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Hidey0shiSoul ShrivenSpawnsplitter wrote: »Its quite simple really... The credit charge is made then immediately canceled.
The bank is the only one that can lift the auth, since ZOS do not get this money as several people claim...
I don't care if ZOS gets the money or not, or if it's up to the bank to return the money in a specific time.
In the end IT WAS ZOS that issued the authorization for a full amount (when they specificaly said I would be charged exactly 0.00$), the money disappeared from my account on friday and it still hasnt been returned.
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Kiwi✭✭✭✭they also need to reverse all the money they have taken from everyone and not returnedA large rectangle
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AntiParadox✭✭I'd love to know who thought it'd be brilliant to allow people to buy the game directly and then not consider the choice of payment as "verified". I bought the digital Imperial Edition over a month ago... surely they've figured out by now if my card was valid or not. *facepalm*04/10/14 - Bought digital Imp Edition directly on 3/5/14. Hadn't been able to play since launch.
Finally got a callback email after 62+ hrs. Asked for a refund. Got a 1-day code instead. -_- Heh.
Pending decision: one more chance or go stuff yourselves.2 -
Daverios✭✭✭✭I wonder how stupid OP will feel when he realizes that a) this is common place and b) its his bank adding the verification and not zenimax.
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RubyTigress✭✭✭I wonder how stupid OP will feel when he realizes that a) this is common place and b) its his bank adding the verification and not zenimax.
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Less stupid that you will if you actually read with comprehension and realize the response you gave has nothing to do with the scenario involved.
But thanks for playing anyway.
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MaximumCat✭✭I'm not being facetious or sardonic here. I really don't understand what the issue is unless you're really not able to pay? Aren't you able to still cancel at the end of the month and not be charged for the month? I'm not getting it. I'm trying to, though.
A major issue for many of us:
Not everyone is ok with signing up for a recurring subscription on a credit card. I pay my bills myself, the old fashioned way. I am in complete control of where my money is spent, and when.
I have played MMO games for over a decade, initially using subscriptions, and then transitioning to game-time cards when I realized that, for someone like me, who cannot realistically play for more than a couple months per year due to the type of career I have, it is far cheaper for me to do so.
I simply will not ever use a credit card to pay a sub. for a game, ever again. Not even for a game as fun as ESO.
We are required to either enter into a recurring sub., or purchase an additional game-time card (They are not available, yet... likely to attempt to lock people into recurring subs) BEFORE we can make use of the game time we have already paid for. This is ridiculous, and it has a lot of people VERY angry.
For my part, I will either:
Be allowed to play the 30 days I have paid for, and then continue playing using the game-time cards.
Or, I will demand a refund for services not rendered... and spend my time doing something else.
I will NOT support ESO if Zenimax insists on forcing me to pay for another month via game-time card, or acquire a subscription BEFORE I can access game time which I have already paid money for.
It's quite simple, really.4 -
MaximumCat✭✭The problem I had was the requirement to setup the subscription in order to play, even though my original pre-order included 30 days of game time. For me it wasn't a matter of funds, or GTCs, or full amount being used for the auth. They tried to force me to do something that shouldn't be required at all. It's like some cult making you do pointless, meaningless things in order to break you, to show you you're not in control. I don't like that.
That's why I uninstalled the game, requested a refund, and will never touch anything with ZeniMax label ever again.
Precisely my issue. I haven't completely given up on the possibility of receiving my 30 days and playing onward, paying as I go. However, Zenimax MUST grant me the 30 days, beginning on the next day I am able to log in, and allow me to play them out, BEFORE I am required to pay another cent, or subscribe to anything. Otherwise, I'll be following the exact same course of action you have detailed here.2
