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Orc should not get 2k stamina and 250 weapon damage. Period.
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Lughlongarm✭✭✭✭✭Toc de Malsvi wrote: »Lughlongarm wrote: »IDK what the all fuss is about, orc is the stamina mirror race of Altmer , they both get the max 2000 stat and the max weapon spell damage. They both some utility, Orc is getting the health small health back+noticeable speed run+ sprint cost reduction, Altmer gets a noticeable stamina sustain+damage reduction on channeling.
So we have several posts on forum declaring Orc is OP and Altmer is trash, kinda ridiculous.
So you are going to completely ignore the health bonus?
Actually forgot about that. It that case I agree that Orc passives value is a little bit over tuned.1 -
IronWooshu✭✭✭✭✭
✭
My entire post went right over your head, believe what you want.Toc de Malsvi wrote: »IronWooshu wrote: »
I dunno about you but with resists in PVP you can cut that damage Orcs get in half, now they have to build for sustain and resists which doesnt allow them to build for more damage unless they are going class canon Orc which means that if you can sustain thru their initial burst, you can chase the Orc down and kill him spamming spin to win all day because weapon cost is next to nothing while getting stamina return because it counts as direct damage.CurvedSwords123 wrote: »The_Yellow_King wrote: »CurvedSwords123 wrote: »The Redguard snare reduction buff is going to be a nothing, unless u stack it with warden snare reduction. It's annoying to see everyone get the 2k Stam as well.
All in all I think the last patch did orcs wrong and this patch is good, but max Stam was a Redguard thing. This is weird.
I agree, that totally killed the unique feeling about playing redguard.
I mean adrenaline rush is good, but u can really get that sustain without feeling the trade with orc, and actually still gain more dmg.
The "unique feeling" being redguard was just being far and away the most dominant stam pve race, anything else you were just missing out. I have a launch day orc stamDK. Best in slot everything so I put the time in not caring that it wasn't meta. I am really anxious to see what DPS bump I get fr actually doing bow damage with my Maelstrom bow. Its almost like people forget already orc was completely hamstrung for years in pve and redguard was the top dog basically forever. Sorry I just don't feel bad for people especially since redguard is still probably top dog when you factor in sustain. Dark elf has zero sustain, I have one of those too. The gap is just closing on redguard, but if anyone race changes a stam dps from redguard to something else they are completely overreacting and IMO wasting a token.
Meanwhile argonian tanks are getting crushed, and the newest notes they buffed healing even more, basically saying every argonian in the game will be a healer. I will be 100% using a token on my argonian warden tank to roll it imperial or nord.
You're just speaking towards your bias now. You are a Pver who has resentment towards Redguards. Orc has always been an apex Stam PvP race. What I care about is PvP. The max Stam made Redguards attractive in that regard. Now the other races are catching up PvE wise and Redguards remain static. If you want to work the equality angle, give Redguards some goodies that will bring us in line with Orcs in PvP. That snare reduction is a joke that no one is going to feel. The WEP reduction passive is way too limiting, classes with skills won't event want to touch Redguard. Notice I'm not screaming for nerfs for ur preferred race, or speaking on residual jealousy from PvE performance; how about you pay us the same courtesy?
Resists apply equally to everyone, Orc is not some special category that has their damage mitigated more. 8% is not going to make Steel Tornado cost next to nothing.
8% reduction off the cost of tornado + 950 stam return makes the cost 2,254 instead of 3410 and with other sustain options as well means you can get more tornados than an Orc alot cheaper.
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IronWooshu✭✭✭✭✭
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Oh no? Please show me your PVP skills with no sustain.Haashhtaag wrote: »Here is the kicker, you don't need sustain lol
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Haashhtaag✭✭✭✭✭
✭Lughlongarm wrote: »IDK what the all fuss is about, orc is the stamina mirror race of Altmer , they both get the max 2000 stat and the max weapon spell damage. They both some utility, Orc is getting the health small health back+noticeable speed run+ sprint cost reduction, Altmer gets a noticeable stamina sustain+damage reduction on channeling.
So we have several posts on forum declaring Orc is OP and Altmer is trash, kinda ridiculous.
It's because magicka and stamina classes play different and how damage is calculated for each.0 -
Toc de Malsvi✭✭✭✭✭
✭IronWooshu wrote: »
My entire post went right over your head, believe what you want.Toc de Malsvi wrote: »IronWooshu wrote: »
I dunno about you but with resists in PVP you can cut that damage Orcs get in half, now they have to build for sustain and resists which doesnt allow them to build for more damage unless they are going class canon Orc which means that if you can sustain thru their initial burst, you can chase the Orc down and kill him spamming spin to win all day because weapon cost is next to nothing while getting stamina return because it counts as direct damage.CurvedSwords123 wrote: »The_Yellow_King wrote: »CurvedSwords123 wrote: »The Redguard snare reduction buff is going to be a nothing, unless u stack it with warden snare reduction. It's annoying to see everyone get the 2k Stam as well.
All in all I think the last patch did orcs wrong and this patch is good, but max Stam was a Redguard thing. This is weird.
I agree, that totally killed the unique feeling about playing redguard.
I mean adrenaline rush is good, but u can really get that sustain without feeling the trade with orc, and actually still gain more dmg.
The "unique feeling" being redguard was just being far and away the most dominant stam pve race, anything else you were just missing out. I have a launch day orc stamDK. Best in slot everything so I put the time in not caring that it wasn't meta. I am really anxious to see what DPS bump I get fr actually doing bow damage with my Maelstrom bow. Its almost like people forget already orc was completely hamstrung for years in pve and redguard was the top dog basically forever. Sorry I just don't feel bad for people especially since redguard is still probably top dog when you factor in sustain. Dark elf has zero sustain, I have one of those too. The gap is just closing on redguard, but if anyone race changes a stam dps from redguard to something else they are completely overreacting and IMO wasting a token.
Meanwhile argonian tanks are getting crushed, and the newest notes they buffed healing even more, basically saying every argonian in the game will be a healer. I will be 100% using a token on my argonian warden tank to roll it imperial or nord.
You're just speaking towards your bias now. You are a Pver who has resentment towards Redguards. Orc has always been an apex Stam PvP race. What I care about is PvP. The max Stam made Redguards attractive in that regard. Now the other races are catching up PvE wise and Redguards remain static. If you want to work the equality angle, give Redguards some goodies that will bring us in line with Orcs in PvP. That snare reduction is a joke that no one is going to feel. The WEP reduction passive is way too limiting, classes with skills won't event want to touch Redguard. Notice I'm not screaming for nerfs for ur preferred race, or speaking on residual jealousy from PvE performance; how about you pay us the same courtesy?
Resists apply equally to everyone, Orc is not some special category that has their damage mitigated more. 8% is not going to make Steel Tornado cost next to nothing.
8% reduction off the cost of tornado + 950 stam return makes the cost 2,254 instead of 3410 and with other sustain options as well means you can get more tornados than an Orc alot cheaper.
You don't get 950 with every cast, omg please go re-read the passives.Legendary Archer of ValenwoodBosmer Dragon Knight Archer. XBox One. (Flawless Conqueror Bow/Bow)Bosmer Nightblade Archer. Xbox One. (Flawless Conqueror Bow/Bow)Bosmer Sorcerer Archer. Xbox One. (Flawless Conqueror Bow/Bow)Bosmer Warden Archer. Xbox One. (Flawless Conqueror Bow/Bow)Templar's are evil..2 -
ccmedaddy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭This is why I didn't want Orcs to be buffed in the first place. -_- Orcs were perfect the way they were on the 1st week of PTS.
Orcs better get their healing back if ZOS is going to nerf their offensive stats.2 -
Toc de Malsvi✭✭✭✭✭
✭https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/455092/raid-buffed-dps-comparison-of-each-race-by-class-tests-graphs-interpretation-and-final-score/p1
Based on this testing Orc and Dunmer were top two for DK's and NB's. Since that post Bosmer and Reguard gained nothing.
Dunmer gained 625 stam and lost 600 health.
Orc's gained 1500 stam and 500 health while losing 380 stam every 4 seconds.
They were already TOP 2 and they both got damage buffs. Orc got buffed to have more damage stats than the other race in the top 2 and to have 1k more health. It is not a giant leap of faith to see that they are now top dog.Edited by Toc de Malsvi on February 5, 2019 7:28PMLegendary Archer of ValenwoodBosmer Dragon Knight Archer. XBox One. (Flawless Conqueror Bow/Bow)Bosmer Nightblade Archer. Xbox One. (Flawless Conqueror Bow/Bow)Bosmer Sorcerer Archer. Xbox One. (Flawless Conqueror Bow/Bow)Bosmer Warden Archer. Xbox One. (Flawless Conqueror Bow/Bow)Templar's are evil..4 -
Haashhtaag✭✭✭✭✭
✭IronWooshu wrote: »
Oh no? Please show me your PVP skills with no sustain.Haashhtaag wrote: »Here is the kicker, you don't need sustain lol
With 2 damage sets, BS, and 1 recovery glyph on my nord I get about 1450 recovery in cp and about 1350 in no cp which is more than enough2 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭To be fair OP has listed what is essentially half racial bonuses that add up to one. Not saying the entire picture is balanced but to suggest 1k max health is a full passive is very misleading. It is very clear it and the small heal requiring specific actions by the player are one full passive.1 -
technohic✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Orcs are really over the top.
In general, I am worried since all powerhouse races are dc now. This will attract many new Players to dc, who do not have any race Upgrade.
Ep got tanky and hybrid races which allow advanced players to make interesting Builds.
Ad got scuffed imo from a pvp perspective.
DC attracting more players has to be the least compelling argument I have seen. You mean the faction that usually doesnt pop lock for an hour or 2 after the other 2? Going to get some new players that don't know how to use those EP classes?
Scary.2 -
casparian✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Orcs are really over the top.
In general, I am worried since all powerhouse races are dc now. This will attract many new Players to dc, who do not have any race Upgrade.
Ep got tanky and hybrid races which allow advanced players to make interesting Builds.
Ad got scuffed imo from a pvp perspective.
DC attracting more players has to be the least compelling argument I have seen. You mean the faction that usually doesnt pop lock for an hour or 2 after the other 2? Going to get some new players that don't know how to use those EP classes?
Scary.
Agreed, and don't forget that AD is likely to see an influx of new cats, as well as EP getting some new people excited about Nord.7-day PVP campaign regular 2016-2019, Flawless Conqueror. MagDK/stamplar/stamwarden/mageblade. Requiem, Legend, Knights of Daggerfall. Currently retired from the wars; waiting on performance improvements.0 -
jaws343✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Dunmer also have 2K stam and the same amount of weapon damage. Redguards have 2K stam and superior sustain. PVE diversity is alive and well for stam DPS.
Orc will continue to be very good in PVP, but it also got a couple of nerfs, and Khajiit and Nord both got big buffs for PVP. The sky isn’t falling.
I would even argue that Dunmer is a far better option for a Stamden. The extra mag and spell damage will allow you to cast the mag support skills more and allow you to more effectively run a mag based heal if needed.0 -
TheInfernalRage✭✭✭✭✭Ragnaroek93 wrote: »What race will you play next patch? Breton or Orc?
Am I the only one who plays them all regardless of the blah blah about the meta and bis?0 -
Juhasow✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Lord_Dexter wrote: »Lord_Dexter wrote: »Twohothardware wrote: »The 500 stam was a joke indeed, even tho 256 is much more in terms of damage, but still, i'd give orc nothing more than 1.2k stam.
Orc lost the stamina sustain that was helping the dps they showed first week of pts. Without that 2K stamina now there's no reason to choose them over Dark Elf or Khajiit or Redguard.
There is a reason, Orc will really perform excellent on Stam Sorc DPS
We'll se about that. Before those changes orc was even slightly behind redguard in terms of DPS due to how many weapon abilities stam sorc is using so it is still remains to be seen if gaining more max stam will compensate for loosing sustain passive. You'll have to do more heavy attack on orc then on redguard that is certain.
Let PTS get up and players do testing, Orc will still not left behind in DPS, they have best max stamina 2000 stat + higher weapon damage and 1k health.
Giving sustain back mean no better option than Orc
They are really in good position now.
I am not saying they're not good I think You misintrepretated my comment. I am just saying it's too early to say orc will be excelent on stamsorc because previously in my tests redguard was performing better so we'll see how it'll go now.0 -
CurvedSwords123✭✭✭IronWooshu wrote: »
I dunno about you but with resists in PVP you can cut that damage Orcs get in half, now they have to build for sustain and resists which doesnt allow them to build for more damage unless they are going class canon Orc which means that if you can sustain thru their initial burst, you can chase the Orc down and kill him spamming spin to win all day because weapon cost is next to nothing while getting stamina return because it counts as direct damage.CurvedSwords123 wrote: »The_Yellow_King wrote: »CurvedSwords123 wrote: »The Redguard snare reduction buff is going to be a nothing, unless u stack it with warden snare reduction. It's annoying to see everyone get the 2k Stam as well.
All in all I think the last patch did orcs wrong and this patch is good, but max Stam was a Redguard thing. This is weird.
I agree, that totally killed the unique feeling about playing redguard.
I mean adrenaline rush is good, but u can really get that sustain without feeling the trade with orc, and actually still gain more dmg.
The "unique feeling" being redguard was just being far and away the most dominant stam pve race, anything else you were just missing out. I have a launch day orc stamDK. Best in slot everything so I put the time in not caring that it wasn't meta. I am really anxious to see what DPS bump I get fr actually doing bow damage with my Maelstrom bow. Its almost like people forget already orc was completely hamstrung for years in pve and redguard was the top dog basically forever. Sorry I just don't feel bad for people especially since redguard is still probably top dog when you factor in sustain. Dark elf has zero sustain, I have one of those too. The gap is just closing on redguard, but if anyone race changes a stam dps from redguard to something else they are completely overreacting and IMO wasting a token.
Meanwhile argonian tanks are getting crushed, and the newest notes they buffed healing even more, basically saying every argonian in the game will be a healer. I will be 100% using a token on my argonian warden tank to roll it imperial or nord.
You're just speaking towards your bias now. You are a Pver who has resentment towards Redguards. Orc has always been an apex Stam PvP race. What I care about is PvP. The max Stam made Redguards attractive in that regard. Now the other races are catching up PvE wise and Redguards remain static. If you want to work the equality angle, give Redguards some goodies that will bring us in line with Orcs in PvP. That snare reduction is a joke that no one is going to feel. The WEP reduction passive is way too limiting, classes with skills won't event want to touch Redguard. Notice I'm not screaming for nerfs for ur preferred race, or speaking on residual jealousy from PvE performance; how about you pay us the same courtesy?
Our Stam Regen is going to be good, I'm not refuting that. I think you're over simplifying what Orc vs Redguard encounters are going to be like. Again, I'm happy where orcs are as all of their passives are versatile and useful. For Redguards that 15% snare reduction will be inconsequential and the WEP skill reduction is miopic and limiting. Those are my points of contention.0 -
CurvedSwords123✭✭✭Orcs are really over the top.
In general, I am worried since all powerhouse races are dc now. This will attract many new Players to dc, who do not have any race Upgrade.
Ep got tanky and hybrid races which allow advanced players to make interesting Builds.
Ad got scuffed imo from a pvp perspective.
DC attracting more players has to be the least compelling argument I have seen. You mean the faction that usually doesnt pop lock for an hour or 2 after the other 2? Going to get some new players that don't know how to use those EP classes?
Scary.
We dominate non cp, we dropped the ball in cp about a year ago. I blame EP population mostly. Good point man.0 -
Dr.NRG✭✭✭✭Technically Orcs only get 4 passives cause you really cant count speed and run cost reduction as passives when no one can move anyways. Its at this point no differnt than the swim fast passive lolz.1 -
wsmith97ub17_ESO✭✭✭wow, very nice, my orc is very very over-powered now and just perfect!
Thank you zos, i'll buy more crowns to celebrate!It is the mind, that is the mind, confusing the mind. Do not leave the mind, oh mind, to the mind.0 -
nsmurfer✭✭✭✭✭Technically Orcs only get 4 passives cause you really cant count speed and run cost reduction as passives when no one can move anyways. Its at this point no differnt than the swim fast passive lolz
Wut? Sprint is not their flavour passive, it is their utility passive. Speed is the strongest passive for PvP.1 -
Ragnarock41✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭I dislike these new Orc passives as much as anyone, and would happily let ZOS revert them to their 4.3.0 iteration.
Orcs were already perfectly competitive for PvE, and from a PvP perspective I much preferred their more well-rounded bonuses back then.
I'm mostly sad about the lose of %4 healing received and the stamina sustain(really hurts my Dk, the new proc heal is not as good), I also preferred the 4.3.0 Orc, but this new one isn't bad either. This whole change happened because everyone QQ'd about only 500 stam/hp, while ignoring the fact that orc also had sustain , healing received, and weapon damage to make up for lack of stats.
Honestly expected them to push stamina to 1000 and leave it at that , but it seems like they feel different about it.
So all in all I think the changes gave us a weaker orc for PvP purposes, but its still hella better compared to the live server.Edited by Ragnarock41 on February 5, 2019 10:51PM0 -
Thevampirenight✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Orcs are fine please leave the poor orcs alone they get enough hate already. Lets show them love and support instead.Edited by Thevampirenight on February 5, 2019 11:06PMPC NA
Please add Fangs to Vampires.0 -
technohic✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭CurvedSwords123 wrote: »Orcs are really over the top.
In general, I am worried since all powerhouse races are dc now. This will attract many new Players to dc, who do not have any race Upgrade.
Ep got tanky and hybrid races which allow advanced players to make interesting Builds.
Ad got scuffed imo from a pvp perspective.
DC attracting more players has to be the least compelling argument I have seen. You mean the faction that usually doesnt pop lock for an hour or 2 after the other 2? Going to get some new players that don't know how to use those EP classes?
Scary.
We dominate non cp, we dropped the ball in cp about a year ago. I blame EP population mostly. Good point man.
If EP wanted the presence there, they could. They just seem to be in Vivec and Shor.
Here's a thought though. With CP scaling being assumed in calculations for these; anyone testing no CP?0 -
Skander✭✭✭✭✭
✭Ragnaroek93 wrote: »What race will you play next patch? Breton or Orc?
To be honest at least breton doesn't have a mundus with spell damage in itI meme, but my memes are so truthful they hurt
-Elder Nightblades Online
Want competitive pvp while being outnumbered? Tough luck, the devs clearly said you have to die in those situations0 -
usmcjdking✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭For Orc/Dunmer/Khajiit to be balanced, ZOS would have to turn around and nerf the sustain gains we've had since Morrowind patch dropped.
That or buff Kena to go give like Crit & Dmg.
0331
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Forztr✭✭✭✭What I don't understand is they spend months coming up with the race changes then after one week of feedback drastically change their initial numbers. Were they really that far out on the first pass? Just makes it look like they either made up the initial numbers without much thought or would rather cave into player pressure rather than stick to their design choices, both situations look bad IMHO.
I can understand small fine tuning, but the Orc changes are pretty big for just one iteration from the original changes.Edited by Forztr on February 6, 2019 1:27AM3 -
Minalan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Give an altmer 250 spell damage and 2K Magicka and players complain it's too little.
Give an orc 250 weapon damage and 2K stamina, and everyone loses their minds!6
