Orc should not get 2k stamina and 250 weapon damage. Period.

amir412 · February 2019

This change literally killed all other races in terms of stamina and DPS, also for PVP.
ZENI went pretty great with the balance, but after this seems like they fail to learn.
There is no reason a stamina race, will gain 250 weapon dmg and 2k stamina on top of that + 1k HP and some healings + 10% speed boost, LIKE wat the actual ****?
ORC literally shines more than every other race now after this.

Current passives, Please show me a race that has 6 passives that are actually usefull as much:

10% buff speed
2k stam
1k hp
256 weapon damage
Healing each 4 seconds
10% redcue cost of sprint

Ya, go ahead and play bosmer.

Here is a post showing that ORC is no.1 in DPS:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/455092/raid-buffed-dps-comparison-of-each-race-by-class-tests-graphs-interpretation-and-final-score/p1
And thats before the 2k stamina buff

Key points:
* Orcs has alot of stats that scales very well with other buffs + CP modifier changes
* All of the buffs are usefull for PVP
* Was best DPS race according to the test above, before the 2k stamina buff
* Bad to balance health

Here is alcast opinion:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u1iXKjHY5u0&feature=youtu.be&t=504

[Edited for conspiracy theories/misinformation]

Baz · February 2019

More deeps, no sustain. looks good to me.

casparian · February 2019

Dunmer also have 2K stam and the same amount of weapon damage. Redguards have 2K stam and superior sustain. PVE diversity is alive and well for stam DPS.

Orc will continue to be very good in PVP, but it also got a couple of nerfs, and Khajiit and Nord both got big buffs for PVP. The sky isn’t falling.

Baz · February 2019

You play a redguard right ?

Orc will be a real strong alternative to Redguard right now. Maybe 2k stam is a bit overtuned
Remember they ditch out the 20% health regen, so small nerf to Troll King builds (and mostly why people play Orc over Redguard right now).
As of now, I play stamplar, both redguard and orc, and you have to drop a ton of damages on orc if you want a bit of sustain (I easily play with 1k5 on redguard, need around 1k9/2k on my orc, but can't say about pts tho).

Orc is just for orc army RP & fanbois or a meme race. They will be fine (strong in pvp).
Don't forget they add 15% snare reduction to redguard, which is FAR to being nothing actually.

amir412 · February 2019

casparian wrote: »

Dunmer also have 2K stam and the same amount of weapon damage. Redguards have 2K stam and superior sustain. PVE diversity is alive and well for stam DPS.

Orc will continue to be very good in PVP, but it also got a couple of nerfs, and Khajiit and Nord both got big buffs for PVP. The sky isn’t falling.

Sorry dude, but u are forgettig all the others passives they gained.
10% buff speed
2k stam
1k hp
256 weapon damage
Healing each 5 second
10% redcue cost speed

Does it seem normal for one race to recieve that much while others get much less?

Thats a face of someone who knew his race got rigged a f

https://youtu.be/zExyMieUb3s?t=11100

Ragnaroek93 · February 2019

What race will you play next patch? Breton or Orc?

John_Falstaff · February 2019

@Ragnaroek93 , khajiit. ^^

Now, I'd have been playing khajiit whichever way things have turned. The only difference would be, if they nerfed khajiits, I'd have been way more grumpy while playing one...

Olupajmibanan · February 2019

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

What race will you play next patch? Breton or Orc?

Khajit. Every 0,00001% dps matters

dogman · February 2019

shut up, leave my orcs alone you joyless creature

CurvedSwords123 · February 2019

The Redguard snare reduction buff is going to be a nothing, unless u stack it with warden snare reduction. It's annoying to see everyone get the 2k Stam as well.

All in all I think the last patch did orcs wrong and this patch is good, but max Stam was a Redguard thing. This is weird.

amir412 · February 2019

CurvedSwords123 wrote: »

The Redguard snare reduction buff is going to be a nothing, unless u stack it with warden snare reduction. It's annoying to see everyone get the 2k Stam as well.

All in all I think the last patch did orcs wrong and this patch is good, but max Stam was a Redguard thing. This is weird.

I agree, that totally killed the unique feeling about playing redguard.
I mean adrenaline rush is good, but u can really get that sustain without feeling the trade with orc, and actually still gain more dmg.

jcasini222ub17_ESO · February 2019

One of the unique feeling of being an orc was health regen. That's basically gone now.

That 2k Stam will also help alot in active healing. (Vigor/rally). Please keep that in my too when lambasting orcs.

amir412 · February 2019

jcasini222ub17_ESO wrote: »

One of the unique feeling of being an orc was health regen. That's basically gone now.

That 2k Stam will also help alot in active healing. (Vigor/rally). Please keep that in my too when lambasting orcs.

You know whats gonna help u more than 2k stamina?
That 256 weapon dmg which equal to 10.5 stam per 1 weapon dmg.
So 256 already a big boost to ur heals, add that 2k before scaling thats 190 "weapon damage"
First buff is 20% CP so that means 2200 stam, equal to 209 weapon dmg.
And thats before the final scaling of undauted etc.

Just from flat stats, u get:
209 weapon dmg in stam
256 weapon dmg that scale with major brutality etc

And thats really, before calculating the final stats properly...
Who cares about HP recovery with these stats.

CurvedSwords123 · February 2019

jcasini222ub17_ESO wrote: »

One of the unique feeling of being an orc was health regen. That's basically gone now.

That 2k Stam will also help alot in active healing. (Vigor/rally). Please keep that in my too when lambasting orcs.

We're not lambasting orcs. U'r WEP dmg will also help ur healing btw. U'r in a very good spot, I'm advocating for more Redguard love. That is all.

olsborg · February 2019

Orc looking too good from a pvp stamina char perspective, will be making use of my race change if this stays, wich is a shame. Id really like to stay the race ive been these last 2 years because of "what my character is" but combat prowess takes precedence and ...yea..

sionIV · February 2019

Mentioned it in another thread, but I'll say it again.

There is no reason to pick Imperial or Nord, when Orc is better than both of them.

Xsorus · February 2019

Nord isn't bad if you pick Stamina Templar

I see no reason to go Orc vs Redguard on a Stamina DK

Rex-Umbra · February 2019

High Elf gets 2k magicka and 256 spell power... Dark elf gets nearly that for stam and magicka and Cats got some crazy numbers now and Argonian still pvp king.

amir412 · February 2019

Rex-Umbra wrote: »

High Elf gets 2k magicka and 256 spell power... Dark elf gets nearly that for stam and magicka and Cats got some crazy numbers now and Argonian still pvp king.

You cannot compare ORC to High Elf, u simply cannot.
The other passives altmer got compared to orc are a joke and u know it.

The_Yellow_King · February 2019

amir412 wrote: »

CurvedSwords123 wrote: »

The Redguard snare reduction buff is going to be a nothing, unless u stack it with warden snare reduction. It's annoying to see everyone get the 2k Stam as well.

All in all I think the last patch did orcs wrong and this patch is good, but max Stam was a Redguard thing. This is weird.

I agree, that totally killed the unique feeling about playing redguard.
I mean adrenaline rush is good, but u can really get that sustain without feeling the trade with orc, and actually still gain more dmg.

The "unique feeling" being redguard was just being far and away the most dominant stam pve race, anything else you were just missing out. I have a launch day orc stamDK. Best in slot everything so I put the time in not caring that it wasn't meta. I am really anxious to see what DPS bump I get fr actually doing bow damage with my Maelstrom bow. Its almost like people forget already orc was completely hamstrung for years in pve and redguard was the top dog basically forever. Sorry I just don't feel bad for people especially since redguard is still probably top dog when you factor in sustain. Dark elf has zero sustain, I have one of those too. The gap is just closing on redguard, but if anyone race changes a stam dps from redguard to something else they are completely overreacting and IMO wasting a token.

Meanwhile argonian tanks are getting crushed, and the newest notes they buffed healing even more, basically saying every argonian in the game will be a healer. I will be 100% using a token on my argonian warden tank to roll it imperial or nord.

amir412 · February 2019

The_Yellow_King wrote: »

amir412 wrote: »

CurvedSwords123 wrote: »

The Redguard snare reduction buff is going to be a nothing, unless u stack it with warden snare reduction. It's annoying to see everyone get the 2k Stam as well.

All in all I think the last patch did orcs wrong and this patch is good, but max Stam was a Redguard thing. This is weird.

I agree, that totally killed the unique feeling about playing redguard.
I mean adrenaline rush is good, but u can really get that sustain without feeling the trade with orc, and actually still gain more dmg.

The "unique feeling" being redguard was just being far and away the most dominant stam pve race, anything else you were just missing out. I have a launch day orc stamDK. Best in slot everything so I put the time in not caring that it wasn't meta. I am really anxious to see what DPS bump I get fr actually doing bow damage with my Maelstrom bow. Its almost like people forget already orc was completely hamstrung for years in pve and redguard was the top dog basically forever. Sorry I just don't feel bad for people especially since redguard is still probably top dog when you factor in sustain. Dark elf has zero sustain, I have one of those too. The gap is just closing on redguard, but if anyone race changes a stam dps from redguard to something else they are completely overreacting and IMO wasting a token.

Meanwhile argonian tanks are getting crushed, and the newest notes they buffed healing even more, basically saying every argonian in the game will be a healer. I will be 100% using a token on my argonian warden tank to roll it imperial or nord.

And what about PVP?

TheYKcid · February 2019

I dislike these new Orc passives as much as anyone, and would happily let ZOS revert them to their 4.3.0 iteration.

Orcs were already perfectly competitive for PvE, and from a PvP perspective I much preferred their more well-rounded bonuses back then.

CurvedSwords123 · February 2019

The_Yellow_King wrote: »

amir412 wrote: »

CurvedSwords123 wrote: »

The Redguard snare reduction buff is going to be a nothing, unless u stack it with warden snare reduction. It's annoying to see everyone get the 2k Stam as well.

All in all I think the last patch did orcs wrong and this patch is good, but max Stam was a Redguard thing. This is weird.

I agree, that totally killed the unique feeling about playing redguard.
I mean adrenaline rush is good, but u can really get that sustain without feeling the trade with orc, and actually still gain more dmg.

The "unique feeling" being redguard was just being far and away the most dominant stam pve race, anything else you were just missing out. I have a launch day orc stamDK. Best in slot everything so I put the time in not caring that it wasn't meta. I am really anxious to see what DPS bump I get fr actually doing bow damage with my Maelstrom bow. Its almost like people forget already orc was completely hamstrung for years in pve and redguard was the top dog basically forever. Sorry I just don't feel bad for people especially since redguard is still probably top dog when you factor in sustain. Dark elf has zero sustain, I have one of those too. The gap is just closing on redguard, but if anyone race changes a stam dps from redguard to something else they are completely overreacting and IMO wasting a token.

Meanwhile argonian tanks are getting crushed, and the newest notes they buffed healing even more, basically saying every argonian in the game will be a healer. I will be 100% using a token on my argonian warden tank to roll it imperial or nord.

You're just speaking towards your bias now. You are a Pver who has resentment towards Redguards. Orc has always been an apex Stam PvP race. What I care about is PvP. The max Stam made Redguards attractive in that regard. Now the other races are catching up PvE wise and Redguards remain static. If you want to work the equality angle, give Redguards some goodies that will bring us in line with Orcs in PvP. That snare reduction is a joke that no one is going to feel. The WEP reduction passive is way too limiting, classes with skills won't event want to touch Redguard. Notice I'm not screaming for nerfs for ur preferred race, or speaking on residual jealousy from PvE performance; how about you pay us the same courtesy?

Toc de Malsvi · February 2019

CurvedSwords123 wrote: »

The_Yellow_King wrote: »

amir412 wrote: »

CurvedSwords123 wrote: »

The Redguard snare reduction buff is going to be a nothing, unless u stack it with warden snare reduction. It's annoying to see everyone get the 2k Stam as well.

All in all I think the last patch did orcs wrong and this patch is good, but max Stam was a Redguard thing. This is weird.

I agree, that totally killed the unique feeling about playing redguard.
I mean adrenaline rush is good, but u can really get that sustain without feeling the trade with orc, and actually still gain more dmg.

The "unique feeling" being redguard was just being far and away the most dominant stam pve race, anything else you were just missing out. I have a launch day orc stamDK. Best in slot everything so I put the time in not caring that it wasn't meta. I am really anxious to see what DPS bump I get fr actually doing bow damage with my Maelstrom bow. Its almost like people forget already orc was completely hamstrung for years in pve and redguard was the top dog basically forever. Sorry I just don't feel bad for people especially since redguard is still probably top dog when you factor in sustain. Dark elf has zero sustain, I have one of those too. The gap is just closing on redguard, but if anyone race changes a stam dps from redguard to something else they are completely overreacting and IMO wasting a token.

Meanwhile argonian tanks are getting crushed, and the newest notes they buffed healing even more, basically saying every argonian in the game will be a healer. I will be 100% using a token on my argonian warden tank to roll it imperial or nord.

You're just speaking towards your bias now. You are a Pver who has reserntment towards Redguards. Orc has always been an apex Stam PvP race. What I care about is PvP. The max Stam made Redguards attractive in that regard. Now the other races are catching up PvE wise and Redguards remain static. If you want to work the equality angle, give Redguards some goodies that will bring us in line with Orcs in PvP. That snare reduction is a joke that no one is going to feel. The WEP reduction passive is way too limiting, classes with skills won't event want to touch Redguard. Notice I'm not screaming for nerfs for ur preferred race, or speaking on residual jealousy from PvE performance; how about you pay us the same courtesy?

I was with you until the snare reduction part. Snares are the greatest plague to PVP right now and 15% reduction with 100% uptime is a huge buff. DK's and Sorc's have to build around weapon skill lines and both benefit greatly from the Redguard passives. More so the Redguard racial sustain bonuses work 100% while blocking which is quite significant in PVP.

BaylorCorvette · February 2019

The new Orc changes are great and make sense. They are brawlers and heavy hitters so having good max stam and the new added weapon damage makes sense. Redguards have far superior sustain. Their tool tips won't be WAY lower than Orc. I tested Orc on PTS Week One and with 500 stamina and the 258 weapon damage my tool tips went down from what they are on live. I lost 1.2k stamina from live to week 1 pts. In week 3 PTS both Orc and Redguard have the same max stamina so that is a wash. Orc gets 258 weapon damage at the cost of having no stamina sustain. Redguard gets huge sustain passives, so really the two races give a couple VERY solid options. Aside from that, Dark Elf is very close to Orc in the overall damage category.

Since it can be somewhat hard to see the racial passives all together from week 1 and week 3 changes, I made this table which summarizes things nicely.

sionIV · February 2019

BaylorCorvette wrote: »

The new Orc changes are great and make sense. They are brawlers and heavy hitters so having good max stam and the new added weapon damage makes sense. Redguards have far superior sustain. Their tool tips won't be WAY lower than Orc. I tested Orc on PTS Week One and with 500 stamina and the 258 weapon damage my tool tips went down from what they are on live. I lost 1.2k stamina from live to week 1 pts. In week 3 PTS both Orc and Redguard have the same max stamina so that is a wash. Orc gets 258 weapon damage at the cost of having no stamina sustain. Redguard gets huge sustain passives, so really the two races give a couple VERY solid options. Aside from that, Dark Elf is very close to Orc in the overall damage category.

Since it can be somewhat hard to see the racial passives all together from week 1 and week 3 changes, I made this table which summarizes things nicely.

*EDIT*
Just realized in my above table Wood Elf is NOT correct. The penetration isn't there nor is the updated speed after roll dodge. Will fix that now.

Orc and Dunmer got 258 weapon damage because they didn't have 2000 stamina.

Holycannoli · February 2019

amir412 wrote: »

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

What race will you play next patch? Breton or Orc?

Any1 not using ORC will be in disadvantage.

Are you saying my imperial will be in disadvantage? Because you'd be correct. Wtf is the team doing?

Zer0oo · February 2019

Orcs are really over the top.

In general, I am worried since all powerhouse races are dc now. This will attract many new Players to dc, who do not have any race Upgrade.

Ep got tanky and hybrid races which allow advanced players to make interesting Builds.
Ad got scuffed imo from a pvp perspective.

BaylorCorvette · February 2019

sionIV wrote: »

Orc and Dunmer got 258 weapon damage because they didn't have 2000 stamina.

The 500 max stamina for Orc on week 1 of PTS was laughable and definitely needed to be buffed up. Maybe 2k is slightly too much but 1.2-1.5k should be where it's at bare minimum. ZoS also got rid of the stamina return/sustain from Orc in the first week of PTS, so giving more max Stam is a nice trade off. I'll gladly take 1k-1.5k max stamina if they give back the stamina return/sustain.

VeiledCriticism · February 2019

Meanwhile, Magicka Altmers have stamina regen as their race identity. Sound like a legit balancing imo.

Azyle1 · February 2019

BaylorCorvette wrote: »

sionIV wrote: »

Orc and Dunmer got 258 weapon damage because they didn't have 2000 stamina.

The 500 max stamina for Orc on week 1 of PTS was laughable and definitely needed to be buffed up. Maybe 2k is slightly too much but 1.2-1.5k should be where it's at bare minimum. ZoS also got rid of the stamina return/sustain from Orc in the first week of PTS, so giving more max Stam is a nice trade off. I'll gladly take 1k-1.5k max stamina if they give back the stamina return/sustain.

Also... Orc isn't going to be super OP. Khajiit, Orc and Dunmer will all be in good spots. So will Red guard.