The world has not ended. Stop crying about the Altmer change.

validifyedneb18_ESO · February 2019

Before you post some salty comment, READ.

I woke up this morning with basically every thread crying about something. The servers arent even up, yet in the great wisdom of the playerbase, people seem to already be up in arms about a patch note on the test server.

Wait for the servers to go up. Test your theory. If the data supports your claim, come back, write a sensible forum post about the issue and hope that ZOS listens. This is why we have the PTS. Grow the *** up.

Everyone else feel free to ignore this post, it only concerns a small but vocal group within this subforum.

Seraphayel · February 2019

The thing is, 99.9% of the players can't even test it, either because they are not willing to put some effort into it or just because they're never capable of doing so much DPS (flawless execution, lag etc.) that the changes really affect them.

We have seen this during the first round of patch notes where everyone was freaking out and saying how ZOS destroyed race xyz. In the end almost all races were closer together and the differences between top parsing Stamina/Magicka races were negligible. It will be the same now and people still are freaking out about almost nothing.

TheInfernalRage · February 2019

I'm still building my High Elf Templar and there's nothing Zenimax can do or @ZOS_GinaBruno can write, to stop me!

Kadoin · February 2019

TheInfernalRage wrote: »

I'm still building my High Elf Templar and there's nothing Zenimax can do or @ZOS_GinaBruno can write, to stop me!

My high elves are all templars. Got 3 and wont be changing them

Vapirko · February 2019

Seraphayel wrote: »

The thing is, 99.9% of the players can't even test it, either because they are not willing to put some effort into it or just because they're never capable of doing so much DPS (flawless execution, lag etc.) that the changes really affect them.

We have seen this during the first round of patch notes where everyone was freaking out and saying how ZOS destroyed race xyz. In the end almost all races were closer together and the differences between top parsing Stamina/Magicka races were negligible. It will be the same now and people still are freaking out about almost nothing.

Hence the threadpocalypse. Anyone testing stuff can realize the world won’t end.

clocksstoppe · February 2019

But muh 1% dps

Morgul667 · February 2019

Yeah cause a magicka toon that gets stamina regen needs testing....

DarkPicture · February 2019

You dont need to test things which u already see they are absolute pointless. If u tested altmer on pts before and u know the results wasnt huge compare to breton/khajiit and now you have to read this changes, u will immediately know its a nerf.

John_Falstaff · February 2019

@Browart , and now it becomes apparent that you didn't read the changes. ^^ Because one of biggest changes is CP's 20% max stat boost affecting all flat buffs, including previously unaffected food buffs, 5pc buffs, and passives. Which means altmer's 2k max magicka turns into 2.4k with new patch even without other bonuses.

DarkPicture · February 2019

@John_Falstaff all races will get buff so start think a bit more before u will write something, so altmer is still a useles race now

WoppaBoem · February 2019

I do feel my world is falling apart. Dont assume from your privileged position

FrancisCrawford · February 2019

It's pretty clear that the passive change is a nerf of a few percentage points in overall damage or (which matters less) healing.

The magicka sustain loss can be straightforwardly estimated, to within a factor of 1.5 or less. (The only part that's in doubt is how close the proc rate of the passive is to its theoretical maximum.)
There's a direct tradeoff between magicka recovery and spell damage jewelry glyphs. The DPS and other consequences of lessened spell damage are straightforward to estimate for everything except pets and shields.
The benefits of the new stamina sustain feature are, in most PvE contexts, zero, except for the convenience that you can sprint a little longer. (It's very rare to run out of stamina in an Altmer build, certain specific contexts perhaps excepted.)

Whether one cares a lot about those few percentage points differs wildly by individual tastes and situations.

FrancisCrawford · February 2019

John_Falstaff wrote: »

@Browart , and now it becomes apparent that you didn't read the changes. ^^ Because one of biggest changes is CP's 20% max stat boost affecting all flat buffs, including previously unaffected food buffs, 5pc buffs, and passives. Which means altmer's 2k max magicka turns into 2.4k with new patch even without other bonuses.

That's relevant to how easy or hard it will be to complete certain content.
That's irrelevant to the Breton vs. Altmer comparison.

Some people care more about one of those things; some care more about the other.

eso_nya · February 2019

Its not surprising. u have 3 types of player on that topic:

#1 ppl who only care for the stats and dont give a damn about the looks. they'd play a steaming pile of dung if alcast tells them to. their complain will be about racechange tokens.

#2 ppl who only care about the looks and dont give a damn about the stats. they wont care about the changes that much. minor complains because "racial balance, so that every race get something for every role" as advertised by rob gave them hopes to maybe get something cool.

#3 ppl who care about looks and stats equally. they will be po'd no matter what.

The only thing achieved with messing around with the passives is a (prolly vast) majority of the playerbase being unhappy and vocal about it.

JonesFPS · February 2019

Wow now we got a race with a huge amount of spell damage but like 0 sustain from the race passives and those who play as Altmer now have to switch from spell dmg glyphs back to recovery ones.... and WMB or CCF as food gets mandatory.

And as a breton you just can run with blue food, apply some buffs and you'll be able to outplay every Altmer in both areas DPS and sustain.

I bet the difference will be less than 1-2% #sarcasm

tbh i dont care that much i will change the race of my toon anyway but honestly that passive is just useless.

John_Falstaff · February 2019

@FrancisCrawford , max stat is included into formula for calculating weapon/spell power (with coefficient of 10.41 if memory serves) though, so boost to altmer's max stat is a direct boost to damage.

ATomiX96 · February 2019

for pvp: good change you can utilize your stam pool there
for pve: dogsh!t change, less sustain than breton, less damage than breton (breton can run blue food + berserker glyph instead of clockwork + absorb magicka), just straight up putting breton over altmer in any situation in pve.

John_Falstaff · February 2019

@ATomiX96 , what makes you think that absorb magicka is that much weaker than berserker? On live, fire glyph hits less than 30% harder than absorb, and it beats berserker on single target.

ATomiX96 · February 2019

John_Falstaff wrote: »

@ATomiX96 , what makes you think that absorb magicka is that much weaker than berserker? On live, fire glyph hits less than 30% harder than absorb, and it beats berserker on single target.

yeah on the dummy its similar, but if you look at realistic boss encounters with adds now and then you cant always control on who your absorb magicka glyph is gonna proc, because glyph procs on the closest enemy to the initial point of the blockade (also a problem for tanks with crusher on backbar w. lightning staff but thats not the point of this thread)
And berserk just gives you stats and you can tab target the boss etc. defo gonna pull more dps in raids with breton, especially since you dont need to give a flying *** about sustain with that 7% reduce cost. Thats like almost back to one tamriel level of cp reduce cost powercreep.

Ragnaroek93 · February 2019

Seraphayel wrote: »

The thing is, 99.9% of the players can't even test it, either because they are not willing to put some effort into it or just because they're never capable of doing so much DPS (flawless execution, lag etc.) that the changes really affect them.

We have seen this during the first round of patch notes where everyone was freaking out and saying how ZOS destroyed race xyz. In the end almost all races were closer together and the differences between top parsing Stamina/Magicka races were negligible. It will be the same now and people still are freaking out about almost nothing.

Testing around DPS parses only is the worst thing which you can do because endgame PvE builds aren't even close to be balanced or well rounded builds.

JinMori · February 2019

The world has not ended, but, patch by patch, nerfs after nerfs, and you can see how it turned out, this is not just a 1 time mistake, this happened a lot of times, yea, on it's own it's not that bad, but if we take in account how many things have been nerfed more than buffed over the years, and you can see why people are so damn pissed.

In this game we have backwards progression, each patch they add something, and then they nerf it, or they just nerf something, everything that makes the gameplay actually enjoable, instead of addressing the power creep by creating new things, they just nerf everything.

So, you can keep up this bs argument, all you want, it's not gonna help you in a few years when the game is deserted, after repeated nerfs and refusal to make the game actually better.

Good *** luck zos.

Muh 1 %, like gtfo.

wheem_ESO · February 2019

The Altmer passive may end up being strong in PvP, since Stamina pool/sustain is critically important for Magicka builds, but it's a straight nerf to PvE sustain, and you don't need any in-depth testing to see that.

John_Falstaff · February 2019

@ATomiX96 , if you really want to run berserk a-la Breton, you can run berserk on back bar (where it'll proc from WoE) and absorb front where it'll be proccing from your weaving (and will be targeted where you aim it). At least you have full glyph. ^^ Look at stamina side of things - races with poor sustain will be forced to run absorb on bow bar (and suffer from same targeting issue), because absorb now doesn't do much to sustain when placed on the freshly nerfed DW.

ATomiX96 · February 2019

@John_Falstaff then you lose even more damage, and you dont wanna do that.

flame > berserk > absorb magicka

John_Falstaff · February 2019

@ATomiX96 , I wouldn't be that hasty about assuming that berserk is stronger than absorb, for one. But you're also forgetting that altmers get 258 spell damage on top, so while breton run berserker + fire, altmers may run berserker + absorb + 258 SD from passives.

Turelus · February 2019

I mean testing is great but is it going to tell us anything we don't know, which is that you're gaining the opposite resource of the one you will primarily be using (and wanting).

It's an odd change because there doesn't seem to be any logic to it other than ZOS wanted to give them resources, but they were too good having returns for whatever they focused, so now they get returns for what they don't focus because they thought that was an idea.

However it's an idea people don't understand because it's not something many people really want, they want their primary stat to the the focus of the racial gains.

I do see this being something PvP players might make good use of but even then the returns are not great.

albesca · February 2019

eso_nya wrote: »

The only thing achieved with messing around with the passives is a (prolly vast) majority of the playerbase being unhappy and vocal about it.

I agree with everything save for this, because I think that the vast majority of the playerbase are in the second group (care for the looks, not much for the stats)

Rake · February 2019

ok

Rake · February 2019

Must love these self proclaimed voices of reason

Seraphayel · February 2019

For PvP I really like the change. As a Magicka player I lack more Stamina in PvP than I lack Magicka. For PvE it might be not the best passive but it mustn't be to begin with.

VaranisArano · February 2019

The world has ended.

We failed.

Nocturnal took control of Crystal-Like-Law, rewrote reality in her own image, and in an act of petty revenge made the Altmer slightly less good at magical DPS as they were before compared to the other races

Hmm, now that I think about it, Nocturnal taking revenge on the players who tried to beat her would explain an awful lot about #Nerfmire too...