Time Stop and PvE nonDK tanking

cokkto · February 2019

Psijic Order
Time Stop: Increased the base cost of this ability to 8100 from 4590. Keep in mind that this is before the passive cost reduction from the skill line, or the passive cost reduction from the ability rank up.
Developer Comment:

Time Stop is an incredibly powerful ability that allows large areas to be controlled by the caster, and we’ve noticed that a core contributing factor to the ability’s strength is the low cost and high uptime a single user can have. With this change, we want to ensure Time Stop is still powerful, but incurs a high risk of loss of resources to prevent it from being used too often. The cost is based off our other PvP-based abilities such as Purge or Rapid Maneuvers, as this ability is primarily best suited for PvP environments. We will continue to monitor the performance overall to determine if additional changes are needed in the future.

I am sorcerer tank using Time Stop to control trash groups as Talons do on DK. Except DKs sorcerers (not sure about other classes) have no other such good mob-cc tool, and even this one requires some skill to apply due to stun coming after 3 seconds. Now it costs half of my mana pool, whilst Dks can keep using talons at modest cost.

Guys, again? Stop crushing PvE due to unbalanced PvP. If you want to alter spells for PvP - add adjustments as Battle spirit or whatsoever AvA/Battleground related aura. Please, add a sticky note on your scrumboard like "did I miss a PvE effect on my latest PvP nerf?" Thanks

Trinity_Is_My_Name · February 2019

Yep, once again PVE suffers due to PVP whine.

Aliyavana · February 2019

Its not our fault zos hasnt separated balancing between gameplay styles. Pvpers dont go with the intention to nerf pve

cokkto · February 2019

Everyone has a right to cry and whine and I do not blame anyone. The trouble comes when ZOS listens to one party and not taking the other one into account.

LdoubleTG · February 2019

Timestop is too cheap to cast if you had to deal with the timestop spammers in pvp including myself you would get why there needs to be an adjustment. Be thankful all they are planning to do is a cost increase.

xaraan · February 2019

Sorcs are the only other class that has a CC as good as Talons for tanking. Obviously it's more conal than around you, but you can adjust. I love encase on my Sorc tank, it's even better in certain fights.

Screamo · February 2019

As a sorc you got 2 class skills that kinda do the same as talons
encase and the morphs different aoe and also infront of you so you need to position abit different or just use mines to get the same effect as talons ^^

I mean Templars and NB tanks are still kinda ****** but you should be fine

vesselwiththepestle · February 2019

Templars don't need as much magicka as DK tanks when tanking. So they might be able to still use Time Stop. Although the increase in cost is insane.

Feanor · February 2019

Restraining Prison - the tanking morph of Encase - does exactly what you want and even gives 2s Major Vitality for every enemy hit. PvE complaints about nerfs would be more credible if there weren’t tools available.

spartaxoxo · February 2019

LdoubleTG wrote: »

Timestop is too cheap to cast if you had to deal with the timestop spammers in pvp including myself you would get why there needs to be an adjustment. Be thankful all they are planning to do is a cost increase.

No. Because they could have adjusted through battle spirit.

Feanor · February 2019

spartaxoxo wrote: »

LdoubleTG wrote: »

Timestop is too cheap to cast if you had to deal with the timestop spammers in pvp including myself you would get why there needs to be an adjustment. Be thankful all they are planning to do is a cost increase.

No. Because they could have adjusted through battle spirit.

It’s very clear ZOS doesn’t want an ever growing exception list via Battle Spirit. Battle Spirit implements global changes across every skill, but doesn’t alter specific skills. No matter what, as long as ZOS keeps the design philosophy of a unified game experience for both game modes we’re not going to see Battle Spirit exceptions.

ZeroXFF · February 2019

Feanor wrote: »

Restraining Prison - the tanking morph of Encase - does exactly what you want and even gives 2s Major Vitality for every enemy hit. PvE complaints about nerfs would be more credible if there weren’t tools available.

Please show me those tools on NBs and Templars. Your objection would be more credible if you didn't have to cherry-pick to excuse PvE nerfs done for the sake of PvP.

Kadoin · February 2019

Just a question: what did you all do before time stop existed? Just curious.

Feanor · February 2019

ZeroXFF wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

Restraining Prison - the tanking morph of Encase - does exactly what you want and even gives 2s Major Vitality for every enemy hit. PvE complaints about nerfs would be more credible if there weren’t tools available.

Please show me those tools on NBs and Templars. Your objection would be more credible if you didn't have to cherry-pick to excuse PvE nerfs done for the sake of PvP.

Read the OP. He is a Sorc tank.

aeowulf · February 2019

Kadoin wrote: »

Just a question: what did you all do before time stop existed? Just curious.

I did writs on my NB tank. Time stop was put in to cover the gap some classes had for the CC that has become required (by the community) to perform 'well' in some roles. It's just been changed in a very careless way, without consideration for the classes without CC - Templar & NB.

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO · February 2019

Kadoin wrote: »

Just a question: what did you all do before time stop existed? Just curious.

Just dealt without most time, or rely on caltrops. I still say a bow back bar is quite nice for a tank, bombard is a monster.

cokkto · February 2019

Why can't ZOS just make 2 separate tooltips - one for pvp and second for pve and balance spells separately, i wonder...

cokkto · February 2019

expanding my idea - make spell window of 2 tabs, pve and pvp, and let ppl to have different spell morphs and passives learned for different environments. So when in BG/AvA then PvP preset will be taken to action, otherwise in overland PvE default one is used. ZOS?

DocFrost72 · February 2019

Ice
Staff

How has no one mentioned this thus far?

GrumpyDuckling · February 2019

Feanor wrote: »

PvE complaints about nerfs would be more credible if there weren’t tools available.

For Sorcerer tank (that the OP plays), yes, you can argue that there are other tools available. But the argument from a Templar tank perspective is entirely credible.

Feanor · February 2019

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

PvE complaints about nerfs would be more credible if there weren’t tools available.

For Sorcerer tank (that the OP plays), yes, you can argue that there are other tools available. But the argument from a Templar tank perspective is entirely credible.

I never denied taking the stun from Shards wasn’t a good decision.

Starlock · February 2019

vesselwiththepestle wrote: »

Templars don't need as much magicka as DK tanks when tanking. So they might be able to still use Time Stop. Although the increase in cost is insane.

I basically don't use magicka at all on him outside of Time Stop and maybe Shards. The thing with Time Stop though is that it is kind of slow to go off, which means I'll often miss what I was wanting to hit with it on the first cast. Targeting AoEs on console is also a little harder because of the controls too. Being able to cast int a couple times in succession can be important, and I don't think the casting cost increase will allow for that anymore.

GrumpyDuckling · February 2019

DocFrost72 wrote: »

Ice
Staff

How has no one mentioned this thus far?

I see where you're going, but consider this. Not at all tanks run sword and board + ice staff. Ice staff means committing to an entire weapon skill line to try to achieve what a PVE tank uses Time Stop (one skill) to achieve.

I do think the cost increase to Time Stop is short-sighted and devalues the PVE experience of the skill.

ZeroXFF · February 2019

DocFrost72 wrote: »

Ice
Staff

How has no one mentioned this thus far?

It doesn't have a reliable AoE snare, so it's irrelevant to the issue at hand.

Maybe if the circly dps thingie that applies minor (or was it major?) mangle that nobody uses was reworked to instead (or additionally) snare targets for 4+ seconds, it would be a good argument. But that is not on the radar.

GrumpyDuckling · February 2019

Feanor wrote: »

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

PvE complaints about nerfs would be more credible if there weren’t tools available.

For Sorcerer tank (that the OP plays), yes, you can argue that there are other tools available. But the argument from a Templar tank perspective is entirely credible.

I never denied taking the stun from Shards wasn’t a good decision.

Doesn't matter, I'm referring to your comment. The statement that "PVE complaints about nerfs would be more credible if there weren't tools available" does not apply to all PVE tanks. That means that the complaint is entirely credible.

Nifty2g · February 2019

cokkto wrote: »

Psijic Order
Time Stop: Increased the base cost of this ability to 8100 from 4590. Keep in mind that this is before the passive cost reduction from the skill line, or the passive cost reduction from the ability rank up.
Developer Comment:

Time Stop is an incredibly powerful ability that allows large areas to be controlled by the caster, and we’ve noticed that a core contributing factor to the ability’s strength is the low cost and high uptime a single user can have. With this change, we want to ensure Time Stop is still powerful, but incurs a high risk of loss of resources to prevent it from being used too often. The cost is based off our other PvP-based abilities such as Purge or Rapid Maneuvers, as this ability is primarily best suited for PvP environments. We will continue to monitor the performance overall to determine if additional changes are needed in the future.

I am sorcerer tank using Time Stop to control trash groups as Talons do on DK. Except DKs sorcerers (not sure about other classes) have no other such good mob-cc tool, and even this one requires some skill to apply due to stun coming after 3 seconds. Now it costs half of my mana pool, whilst Dks can keep using talons at modest cost.

Guys, again? Stop crushing PvE due to unbalanced PvP. If you want to alter spells for PvP - add adjustments as Battle spirit or whatsoever AvA/Battleground related aura. Please, add a sticky note on your scrumboard like "did I miss a PvE effect on my latest PvP nerf?" Thanks

Sorcerer has it's own class CC though

FrankonPC · February 2019

DocFrost72 wrote: »

Ice
Staff

How has no one mentioned this thus far?

seriously.

FrankonPC · February 2019

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

DocFrost72 wrote: »

Ice
Staff

How has no one mentioned this thus far?

I see where you're going, but consider this. Not at all tanks run sword and board + ice staff. Ice staff means committing to an entire weapon skill line to try to achieve what a PVE tank uses Time Stop (one skill) to achieve.

I do think the cost increase to Time Stop is short-sighted and devalues the PVE experience of the skill.

it's swapping one weapon and putting in a skill in place of timestop. there's added benefits too, since you now won't stun the ads it will be easier to pull them in with leash.

DaveMoeDee · February 2019

xaraan wrote: »

Sorcs are the only other class that has a CC as good as Talons for tanking. Obviously it's more conal than around you, but you can adjust. I love encase on my Sorc tank, it's even better in certain fights.

Hmmm. I just finished leveling 2 wardens by tanking random daily dungeons, one of them meant to ultimately be a magden healer or dps, and now you make me want to try a sorc tank next. Sounds like fun.

A single set of level 19 tanking gear can go a long way when passed from alt to alt.

NordSwordnBoard · February 2019

My solution from another thread more about cost:

NordSwordnBoard wrote: »

If two (friendly) timestops overlap, the last one cancels out the previous one. Basically like you were the only one casting it. Wouldn't be a PvE problem for tanks - and in PvP it would at least take some skill to land two adjacent time stops instead of just chaining them together.

GrumpyDuckling · February 2019

NordSwordnBoard wrote: »

My solution from another thread more about cost:

NordSwordnBoard wrote: »

If two (friendly) timestops overlap, the last one cancels out the previous one. Basically like you were the only one casting it. Wouldn't be a PvE problem for tanks - and in PvP it would at least take some skill to land two adjacent time stops instead of just chaining them together.

I like this suggestion and would love to see it tested.