Galen15 wrote: »

Does anyone here have any historical background who could tell us if any armor IRL ever had such hip flaps? Does it have any functional basis?

Actually yes, many armors used to have "sideskirts" and they did serve important purpose: to protect your hip joint and pelvis from shattering damage (imagine an axe hit from the side, for example). Even today, those are extremely difficult fractures to mend - and back in medieval times, when the medicine was a lot lousier than today, such an injury meant that you will never walk again.



Don't get me wrong, I do appreciate the realism. I just don't consider it strictly necessary, considering that many other aspects of the game are very much non-realistic (for example, most ESO bow designs would be more useful as a blunt weapon).

Most of the time those hip flaps float way off the body. I can't even count the number of sets and costumes I won't use because it looks so dumb. The least they could do is hug the hips not have six inches of air between them and our characters bodies. The ones that don't float off the body are usually so big they look absurd.

Faulgor wrote: »

No. Don't you touch my tassets! Without them, all armor would look like spandex suits or body paint.
You can run around naked if you hate protection so much!

No problem.
Flip your 'Keep/Omit' switch to 'Keep', and you (ta-daaaa) get to 'keep' them.

While some/many of us will elect to make them invisible.

The sideskirts on the armour above are not like ESO hip flaps, though:
- They're not floating (of course).
- They're attached to the armour, not separate pieces hanging around. Even if we accept that the floating issue is caused by the constraints of the game, take a look at Khajiit/Dro m'Athra/Militant Ordinator chests. Those ... things are definitely not part of the chest armour but tacked on somehow.
- They don't protrude outwards with sharp edges. For a surprising amount of armour, letting your arms hang loosely by your side would result in cutting your wrists.

Was not gonna comment on this, since this too is something that has been brought up many many many times in the past, and it's clear at this point that the stupid flaps are here to stay.

The armor in ESO is flawed on so many levels that it is not even funny at this point. There are ergonomic issues, physically impossible designs, impractical set ups, as well as armor that does not actually cover anything vital. And am not talking about the skimpy fantasy tropes barbarian type leather nonsense, where the stupendous muscles of the fellow wearing it deflects incoming blows, not the actual bits of worn armor. No, am talking about armor that has big bulky plates, accoutrements of maille, and various bits of lamellar or brigandine protecting various bits of the wearers body, but which are placed in such a fashion, that they leave huge gaps in the design totally unprotected. Why wear all that bulky nonsense if it doesn't actually protect your body?!?!

And to top it all, some of the designs are dangerous to wear - and one of the common culprits are those silly side flaps. I remember back when I crafted my first set of Xivkyn armor, only to realize that the side flaps had stupid spiky protrusions on their top that clipped with my characters wrists. Every time I moved my arms, it looked like I was trying to commit suicide by cutting my wrists on those spikes. Talk about stupid design...

Personally I just stick to costumes, or the very few semi sensible armor styles, that do not feature them, or where their presence can be mostly ignored. Makes most of the motifs in the game useless as far as the chest pieces go.

With that out of the way, let me get to the point that prompted me to comment, and that is all this talk about tassets...

THOSE THINGS ARE NOT TASSETS! They are an abomination of stupidity and bad design born from minds that have zero understanding about the practical working of actual armor. To put it bluntly, the people who come up with these designs either don't give a flying *** about sensible design, or are just utterly ignorant.

Proper tassets are not affixed at the side of the waist! They are a continuation of whatever form the lower portion of your cuirass takes. Tassets are typically affixed to the faulds, and are something one would wear instead of a full length skirt of plates. They are affixed with hinges or straps at the point where your torso and legs meet. The idea is to protect the upper portion of your thighs and to cover up the gap that forms between your cuirass assembly and whatever sort of greaves you happen to be sporting. And to do it in a manner that impairs leg movement as little as possible.

Tassets are also a fairly late development of armor design, and constitute a compromise design where you sacrifice a bit of protection that the skirt of plates offers, for greater mobility and ease of movement. Later designs had the faulds, tassets, and thigh plates merge into one continuous whole, but those design would look a bit out of place in the world of Elder Scrolls, and most such designs would have them even more closely associated with thighs, not have them flap about at the waist.

Another reason for the emergence of tassets was that they were more accommodating for sitting on a saddle than previous armor designs. Well, more accurately, standing in your saddle, since in a medieval saddle you placed a lot more weight on your legs than on your bum, but I digress... Besides, this point is mostly moot in ESO, since those stupid groin and butt flaps make for a really uncomfortable riding experience in armor anyway.

ESO hip flaps are just those - hip flaps. They are affixed at the side and pivot on a point located on your waist. Many of them do not even cover the gap between torso and leg in any meaningful manner, especially from the front. And the bulkier bits will get in the way of your arm movements, or in the case of some of the designs, would actually injure you in real life.

It is quite possible to design cool fantasy armor designs that are also practical and functionally possible. I for one find armor that actually works as more interesting and a lot cooler than the random nonsense designs we get in ESO. Note that I do not want to have real world designs, this is a fantasy world after all, but I would prefer to have armor that does not scream "This thing is impractical and uncomfortable to wear, will hinder your movements, and wont really protect you either, and will quite possibly get you killed or at least gravely injured should you put it on."

But yeah... Anyway... Hip flaps stupid! Give us more designs without them! Or at least let us hide them.

eklhaftb16_ESO wrote: »

Galen15 wrote: »

Does anyone here have any historical background who could tell us if any armor IRL ever had such hip flaps? Does it have any functional basis?

Actually yes, many armors used to have "sideskirts" and they did serve important purpose: to protect your hip joint and pelvis from shattering damage (imagine an axe hit from the side, for example). Even today, those are extremely difficult fractures to mend - and back in medieval times, when the medicine was a lot lousier than today, such an injury meant that you will never walk again.

Thank you!

Perhaps the art designers ran out of decent ideas and started making the tassets and shoulder pieces outrageous. For example, the Ancient Elf shoulder pieces that Razum Dar wears -- they look more likely to get the wearer lifted off the ground by a two-handed sword attack than to protect anything. Some of the later designs are even sillier and less functional than those. How many different ways can you draw these things?

On the other hand, some of the later shoulder pieces are almost invisible. I look for those and use them when I am crafting armor for new characters. The preview ability is quite valuable in this respect. I used to have to craft something cheaply to see it before making it in final form before this preview system came out.

I find that the number of armor pieces I find to be even "acceptable" is disappointingly small.

colossalvoids wrote: »

Lots of armor styles will look like cheap x-man latex costumes without tassets attached to them, but thats me liking late/post medieval plate armors and stuff. Some should be fixed that's for sure but complete removal? Lol.

Maybe it should be limited to the heavy armor. In any event, it surely should be re-designed to be more realistic.

If one insists on realism, then I'd suggest that we definitely don't need tassets on mage robes or those little cloth jerkins that Bosmer wear.

Faulgor wrote: »

BretonMage wrote: »

If one insists on realism, then I'd suggest that we definitely don't need tassets on mage robes or those little cloth jerkins that Bosmer wear.

There are plenty of light armor styles without tassets, though.

Abah's Watch
Ashlander
Bloodforge
Breton
Bosmer 1
Buoyant Armiger
Dark Brotherhood
Ebony
Elder Argonian
Fang Lair
Fanged Worm
Mazzatun
Minotaur
Order of the Hour
Pyandonean
Ra Gada
Redguard 1
Sapiarch
Silver Dawn
Soul-shriven
Trinimac
Worm Cult

Breton is my favourite for a classic mage look. Many other styles have really tiny tassets, or ones that fit well with the overall design of the armor.
I have the feeling people mostly have issues with very specific styles that have floating armor pieces, not armor elements as a whole. I certainly don't see anyone complaining about the tassets on Ebony or Silken Ring, for example. It's always light Khajiit or something similarly cartoony.

There may be a few, but then they may not be our preferred style... I really like the Ancient Elf robes, but I really feel that those enormous boats sitting on our hips spoil the look of what would otherwise be a very elegant mage outfit.

I agree that it's not the armour elements as a whole that are objectionable, but I would add that shoulder and hip armour do in general look entirely out of place on light armour - whilst, on the other hand, pauldrons and tassets might look fine with heavy armour.

Perhaps redesigning the shoulder and hip pieces on light armour would be an acceptable compromise if ZOS are unwilling to go the route of hiding armour pieces for whatever reason.

As mentioned more than once above - reinforcements on the hip can serve a practical purpose.

But not the way ESO does its hip flaps. Those things are often downright dangerous to the wearer, provide protection only from very specific angles while reliably guiding most blows towards the body, and would be impossible to move in if you think about them for a moment.

You're not wearing tassets when you dangle two frying pans from your belt.

It's not that tassets would be wrong. It's about the ridiculously overblown, floating monstrosities that ESO slaps at the sides of the character's legs.

Wildberryjack wrote: »

Most of the time those hip flaps float way off the body. I can't even count the number of sets and costumes I won't use because it looks so dumb. The least they could do is hug the hips not have six inches of air between them and our characters bodies. The ones that don't float off the body are usually so big they look absurd.

Yeah. I actually made an outfit for one character. Simple stuff: DC heavy. But his hips are naked. Silly.

Just remove them.

I feel like many of the newer motifs do a lot better. Many have small pouches or spell books instead. Even those with hip protection are sitting on the character better. It is mainly the older motifs that are the worst offenders. Case in point, khajiit style the hip decoration is a half circle floating sevral inches from the body. These are the ones that need a redesign.

Crotch flaps are ubiquitous in Tamriel for some reason.

Maybe because pants are made to make your crotch look like you're wearing some undergarment for incontinence.