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stamina vs magica dps
Edziu
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so with new change to just enchants how stamina dps would be worse than magica dps?
even for now if we dont use atleast relequeen we have big difference between stam and amg dps
so how worse would stamina dps with this patch even without relequen than magica dps?
what are your thoughs as I see it in very bad spot now
Edited by Edziu on January 29, 2019 2:57PM even for now if we dont use atleast relequeen we have big difference between stam and amg dps
so how worse would stamina dps with this patch even without relequen than magica dps?
what are your thoughs as I see it in very bad spot now
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John_Falstaff✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Needs to be noted that current magicka meta - Siroria and Spell Strategist - is also very restrictive and picky about the specific kind of fight, much like Relequen. But I do have certain worries too.
(And no, the argument that stamblades still hit higher than magicka is definitely not a good one, because that implies that stamina is represented by stamblades alone and the rest is pretty much rubbish. ^^)5 -
Edziu✭✭✭✭✭
✭yeah hahah I dont even care about stamblades
as my question is for overall which mostly isnt stamblade and this stamblade could be just separated from rest at all in threads like this0 -
royo✭✭✭When we tested earlier this patch, magsorc, magblade, and magplar were 65-70k on Zhaj in maw. Stamwarden and stamblade were both over 78k. Stam will continue to destroy mag on full length trials after the upcoming 2k nerf.5
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John_Falstaff✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭@royo , stamblades and stamwarden are already the hardest hitting specs as of Murkmire. What about other stamina? How does it stack?2 -
susmitds✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Take away vMA Bow and Relequen, even StamNB and Stamden will have a hard time, consistently outforming their mag counterparts. The truth is that stamina DPS is carried by gear a lot.12 -
Edziu✭✭✭✭✭
✭When we tested earlier this patch, magsorc, magblade, and magplar were 65-70k on Zhaj in maw. Stamwarden and stamblade were both over 78k. Stam will continue to destroy mag on full length trials after the upcoming 2k nerf.
yes and what about other classes?
what aboout content/trials where stamina melee dd have not much play like vAS +2 etc where boss and emchanics are to mobile for melee dd and range dd have better place here so every magica build except magdk1 -
John_Falstaff✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭what aboout content/trials where stamina melee dd have not much play like vAS +2 etc where boss and emchanics are to mobile for melee dd and range dd have better place here so every magica build except magdk
I fear that upcoming patch won't make that case any more hopeless than it already is. ^^ I only have glimmering hope that stamdk/stamsorc/stamplar won't drop below the "not worth it, bring magicka" point.2 -
susmitds✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭John_Falstaff wrote: »what aboout content/trials where stamina melee dd have not much play like vAS +2 etc where boss and emchanics are to mobile for melee dd and range dd have better place here so every magica build except magdk
I fear that upcoming patch won't make that case any more hopeless than it already is. ^^ I only have glimmering hope that stamdk/stamsorc/stamplar won't drop below the "not worth it, bring magicka" point.
Stamplars are mostly welcome in all trial groups. Minor penetration debuffs are part of their rota2 -
John_Falstaff✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭@susmitds , mm-m, well that's something, I guess; being taken for debuffs is better than not being taken at all.Edited by John_Falstaff on January 29, 2019 4:11PM0 -
kojou✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭The argument should really be ranged DPS vs melee not Magicka vs Stamina.
Trial boss mechanics should take melee into perspective instead of making it almost impossible to do on melee so players just use ranged. There should be a legitimate roles and consideration for both in every fight.
Hopefully the new trial will be like this...Playing since beta...2 -
John_Falstaff✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭@kojou , it's what most imply by magicka/stamina dichotomy (since only magDKs are caught in the middle) - that stamina equals melee and magicka equals ranged. But yes, vCR and vAS design is a whole separate story of its own... not a pretty story either. The talk, though, is about pure damage contribution, and whether stamin (omitting the outliers - stamblade and stamden) will still be hitting higher than magicka this upcoming patch, and whether the difference will be enough to justify including squishier melee stamina into anything. In other words, whether that "risk vs. reward" thing still holds.Edited by John_Falstaff on January 29, 2019 4:19PM1 -
Edziu✭✭✭✭✭
✭The argument should really be ranged DPS vs melee not Magicka vs Stamina.
Trial boss mechanics should take melee into perspective instead of making it almost impossible to do on melee so players just use ranged. There should be a legitimate roles and consideration for both in every fight.
Hopefully the new trial will be like this...
yes but as @John_Falstaff mentioned...at all every stamina dps is melee dps and every magica is range dps except magk which is melee
so if you see something on forum magica vs stamina etc you should see it as range vs melee dps
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kojou✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭The argument should really be ranged DPS vs melee not Magicka vs Stamina.
Trial boss mechanics should take melee into perspective instead of making it almost impossible to do on melee so players just use ranged. There should be a legitimate roles and consideration for both in every fight.
Hopefully the new trial will be like this...
yes but as @John_Falstaff mentioned...at all every stamina dps is melee dps and every magica is range dps except magk which is melee
so if you see something on forum magica vs stamina etc you should see it as range vs melee dps
Except that discussions of this sort then tend to focus on stamina gear and skills which have no effect on the magicka DK. Also, melee magicka Templar used to be a thing...
My point is that DPSwise you can do all content with 40k DPS, so any thing above that is just gravy for getting a higher score. What keeps builds out of trials is making mechanics totally melee unfriendly.Playing since beta...0 -
John_Falstaff✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭@kojou , yes and no. Sure score running is a thing. But higher damage also means faster and less painful clears; it's a currency you can invest directly to burn stuff faster, or trade surplus away for tankiness while still keeping decent damage. In any content, the more you have, the better. 10k extra may mean dozens of seconds during which something can kill you. Or it may mean same damage but with more sustain, more health and/or resistances to help your healer. So yes, while new mini-trials are atrocious when it comes to melee builds, there ain't no such thing as too much damage.1 -
kojou✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭John_Falstaff wrote: »@kojou , yes and no. Sure score running is a thing. But higher damage also means faster and less painful clears; it's a currency you can invest directly to burn stuff faster, or trade surplus away for tankiness while still keeping decent damage. In any content, the more you have, the better. 10k extra may mean dozens of seconds during which something can kill you. Or it may mean same damage but with more sustain, more health and/or resistances to help your healer. So yes, while new mini-trials are atrocious when it comes to melee builds, there ain't no such thing as too much damage.
In a hypothetical situation where I can choose between a player that does 70k dps and one that does 35k DPS on a team then sure I am going to take the 70k player.
In most groups I run with though, we are taking the 35k players too, because we have 7 more spots to fill and despite popular belief on the forums not everyone plays a Stam Nightblade that does 70k and fills every spot on every raid.Playing since beta...1 -
Edziu✭✭✭✭✭
✭John_Falstaff wrote: »@kojou , yes and no. Sure score running is a thing. But higher damage also means faster and less painful clears; it's a currency you can invest directly to burn stuff faster, or trade surplus away for tankiness while still keeping decent damage. In any content, the more you have, the better. 10k extra may mean dozens of seconds during which something can kill you. Or it may mean same damage but with more sustain, more health and/or resistances to help your healer. So yes, while new mini-trials are atrocious when it comes to melee builds, there ain't no such thing as too much damage.
In a hypothetical situation where I can choose between a player that does 70k dps and one that does 35k DPS on a team then sure I am going to take the 70k player.
In most groups I run with though, we are taking the 35k players too, because we have 7 more spots to fill and despite popular belief on the forums not everyone plays a Stam Nightblade that does 70k and fills every spot on every raid.
and this reminder me times before morrowind where jsut stamina dd was really dead and I was playing this stamina dd as I like it whiel doing enough damage in my friendly trial guild and with it doing better dps than many other "meta slaves" as they was gicing everythin on meta *** as they was just unskilled or mindless players who though meta setup is enough to do well
and well...that was this...maybe they was unskilled *** to dps but meta setup was this thing which was making them enough for dps on veteran content on which I as stamina needed to have very high xp to do this0 -
royo✭✭✭Stamplar in war machine was our lowest, and it still hit the same as a magblade in architect. Stam is far ahead.
And people keep saying relequen carries stam dps, and there are certainly cases that it does, but score groups run 8 stam in vHoF and you don't even wear relequen for bosses 3-5.
8 stam dps is the highest dps comp in every full length trial, and yes, mag is easier in the mini trials, but highly skilled stam players can put up competitive numbers in those trials. It's just harder.
A dk off tank in sword/board can out dps every mag class on Zhaj. Stam is insanely strong and people need to stop saying otherwise.Edited by royo on January 29, 2019 6:09PM1 -
LiquidPony✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭A ~2k loss or whatever from the enchant changes, if that's what it ends up being, is not a big deal.
I think stam is going to be OK ...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=caernrtGxbI 0 -
Edziu✭✭✭✭✭
✭Take away vMA Bow and Relequen, even StamNB and Stamden will have a hard time, consistently outforming their mag counterparts. The truth is that stamina DPS is carried by gear a lot.
ehh I would really buy huge nerfs to releqen and vMA bow to get proper buffs for overall stamina dps to not by carried by these sets that much like nowEdited by Edziu on January 30, 2019 11:40AM2 -
SaintSubwayy✭✭✭✭✭
✭Take away vMA Bow and Relequen, even StamNB and Stamden will have a hard time, consistently outforming their mag counterparts. The truth is that stamina DPS is carried by gear a lot.
agreed, relequen give you DPS like there's no tomorrow...but keep in mind, ZOS decided to nerf fun and synergy out of staminas, by nerfing Sunderflame and Nightmothers Gaze into useless ness.
else you'd still have 2 or even 3 ppl runnning stam support sets, and the rest would benefit from their sacrifice in terms of DMG...but nooo nerf the sets, get everybody to run Lover and Relequen for free DPS
And to OP, stam still rules if it comes down to flat DMG, in a stationary fight, nothing gets past sNB or Stamden atm.
They got nerfed a little bit, but those 2k dps are meaningless, as long as the gap is as big as it was pre nerf Edited by SaintSubwayy on January 30, 2019 2:05PMPC EU
vAA HM / vHRC HM / vSO HM / vMoL HM / vHoF HM / vAS HM / vCR HM / vSS HM / vKA HM
Flawless Conqueror / Immortal Redeemer / Dawnbringer / Griphon Heart / Master Angler / Spirit Slayer0 -
Vertilvius✭✭✭Stam is harder to stay alive on so they should hit higher. I just wish it was more balanced between the classes however, really when we are talking stam we are really talking about stamblade and in some cases stamden. As for the rest of the stam classes they are pretty on par with mag or at least magblade.0
