Maintenance for the week of May 11:
• PC/Mac: No maintenance – May 11
• PC/Mac: No maintenance – May 11
The maintenance is complete, and the PTS is now back online and patch 12.0.4 is available.
Implosion Changes
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Merlight✭✭✭✭✭Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »That is still not how it works, you still only have a 6% chance per.
You're missing the point; we're not arguing single proc chance, what you originally responded to was about aggregate probability to finish someone off with this passive. Let's say you get your target into execute range. If you hit him once before he heals, you have 6% chance to proc once. If you hit him twice, you have 11.64% chance to proc at least once. The more damage sources you have ticking, the higher your chances are of actually getting a proc in a given time span.
EU ‣ Wabbajack nostalgic ‣ Blackwater Blade defender ‣ Kyne wanderer
The offspring of the root of all evil in ESO by DeanTheCat
Why ESO needs a monthly subscription
When an MMO is designed around a revenue model rather than around fun, it doesn’t have a long-term future. ― Richard A. Bartle
Their idea of transparent, at least when it comes to communication, bears a striking resemblance to a block of coal. ― lordrichter
... in the balance of power between the accountants and marketing types against the artists, developers and those who generally want to build and run a good game then that balance needs to always be in favour of the latter - because the former will drag the game into the ground for every last bean they can squeeze out of it. ― Santie Claws4 -
Merlight✭✭✭✭✭
You are correct. Yet, I believe all clases should be able to achieve roughly the same results, albeit in different ways.
Is it fair that a class can achieve 14-32% more flat damage than other classes ? Because this for example is what warden can achieve. 8% free minor berserk, 6% magic damage (a common damage type that every magicka build uses) and up to 18% from animal companion, few of course have that. 2% spell damage is also not even close as good as 2% damage dealt.
I doubt "fair" is a thing behind a paywall.EU ‣ Wabbajack nostalgic ‣ Blackwater Blade defender ‣ Kyne wanderer
The offspring of the root of all evil in ESO by DeanTheCat
Why ESO needs a monthly subscription
When an MMO is designed around a revenue model rather than around fun, it doesn’t have a long-term future. ― Richard A. Bartle
Their idea of transparent, at least when it comes to communication, bears a striking resemblance to a block of coal. ― lordrichter
... in the balance of power between the accountants and marketing types against the artists, developers and those who generally want to build and run a good game then that balance needs to always be in favour of the latter - because the former will drag the game into the ground for every last bean they can squeeze out of it. ― Santie Claws0 -
LiquidPony✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭LiquidPony wrote: »There is one proposal I would like to make. To make amplitude more consistent and more impactful all over the fight.
If we were to just increase the maximum value, it could become too good in some situations.
But the floor could be raised to prevent it from becoming irrelevant on low health.
100-90%: 10% damage
89-70% : 9% damage
69-50% : 8% damage
49-30% : 7% damage
29-10% : 6% damage
9-0% : 5% damage
This way the damage would be more consistent, without raising its potential and without making the loss of Implosion seem so impactful on low health.
It also would not be too strong. Because some other classes for example get 8% damage all the time.
But that "8% all the time" is a Minor buff that can be had from other sources.
And the sacrifise for doing so makes you loose out elsewhere.
Slimecraw is the least intrusive way of gaining it. But don't you feel like a fool, using 2 set pieces to gain a buff that other classes get for free and knowing, they could slot 2 true damage sets there, thus still outperforming you ? I do.
The only other way is using a healing staff with combat prayer, which costs you elsewhere.
You must admit, gaining minor Berserk on your main nuke that everyone uses, which at the same time is the hardest hitting burst ability in the game, is very convenient and quite ridiculous at the same time if you think about it.
From a PvE perspective, everyone is already getting Minor Berserk in most content and adding a constant 5%+ damage modifier to sorcs would be ridiculously OP.
I understand where you're coming from in PvP but I don't think this suggestion works for general game balance. It's far too strong.2 -
Vapirko✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I think every pvp Sorс wants to return to the implosion because the new amplitude is very weak,it is practically nothing in pvp when the enemy is not full HP,Sorс is not a ganker
It’s actually great for up front pressure where as implosion, while occasionally great, was unpredictable. And mag sorcs have a great execute (minus the fact that it can literally be dodged at two different times). Stam sorcs on the other hand need a lot of work and while implosion is a loss, the fact is if they’re ever going to be brought up to the range of other classes they’ll need their own execute and spammable and then implosion isn’t matter.1 -
WuffyCerulei✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭I’ve never really been to huge on implosion. It’s 6%, and my endless fury generally takes care of execute. It’s like overkill. The new change gives me more damage at first, and then finish em off with endless fury, or Executioner/Poison Injection/S(p)in2win for the stamsorcs. And it’s a great dps boost for sorcs.Edited by WuffyCerulei on January 28, 2019 12:51PM"Buzz Lightyear toy isle shot" Stormcalling/Animal Companions/Assassination PVP build hater
Bring Back Pure Class Build Power2 -
SaintSubwayy✭✭✭✭✭
✭
You are correct. Yet, I believe all clases should be able to achieve roughly the same results, albeit in different ways.
Is it fair that a class can achieve 14-32% more flat damage than other classes ? Because this for example is what warden can achieve. 8% free minor berserk, 6% magic damage (a common damage type that every magicka build uses) and up to 18% from animal companion, few of course have that. 2% spell damage is also not even close as good as 2% damage dealt.
It doesn't feel too good playing a class and knowing, another class gets so much more damage for free.
And this isn't just a comparison between Sorcerer and Wardens.
With the new passive, the gap is no longer as shocking.
and still magden is lowset ranking magicka DD, because zos decided to make frostdmg not a viable option in PVE DPS, and rather made it tanking oriented.
OFC its kinda "unfair" that classes like NB get free acces to minor berserk, only by using a skill...actually they shoul dbuff that passive to effect 6 allies nearby aswell, therefore eliminating the need for Combat prayer entirely when having 2 NB in your trial
or maybe they'll remove this buff from NB anyways and give it to Necros as their Minor groupbuff skill...who knows
PC EU
vAA HM / vHRC HM / vSO HM / vMoL HM / vHoF HM / vAS HM / vCR HM / vSS HM / vKA HM
Flawless Conqueror / Immortal Redeemer / Dawnbringer / Griphon Heart / Master Angler / Spirit Slayer1 -
Dracane✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭LiquidPony wrote: »LiquidPony wrote: »There is one proposal I would like to make. To make amplitude more consistent and more impactful all over the fight.
If we were to just increase the maximum value, it could become too good in some situations.
But the floor could be raised to prevent it from becoming irrelevant on low health.
100-90%: 10% damage
89-70% : 9% damage
69-50% : 8% damage
49-30% : 7% damage
29-10% : 6% damage
9-0% : 5% damage
This way the damage would be more consistent, without raising its potential and without making the loss of Implosion seem so impactful on low health.
It also would not be too strong. Because some other classes for example get 8% damage all the time.
But that "8% all the time" is a Minor buff that can be had from other sources.
And the sacrifise for doing so makes you loose out elsewhere.
Slimecraw is the least intrusive way of gaining it. But don't you feel like a fool, using 2 set pieces to gain a buff that other classes get for free and knowing, they could slot 2 true damage sets there, thus still outperforming you ? I do.
The only other way is using a healing staff with combat prayer, which costs you elsewhere.
You must admit, gaining minor Berserk on your main nuke that everyone uses, which at the same time is the hardest hitting burst ability in the game, is very convenient and quite ridiculous at the same time if you think about it.
From a PvE perspective, everyone is already getting Minor Berserk in most content and adding a constant 5%+ damage modifier to sorcs would be ridiculously OP.
I understand where you're coming from in PvP but I don't think this suggestion works for general game balance. It's far too strong.
My main concern is indeed pvp.
Sorry if I was unclear. I want to compare classes in a vacuum, without allies helping them out.Auri-El is my lord,
Trinimac my ward,
and Magnus my mind.0 -
gepe87✭✭✭✭✭
✭Give stam sorc a burst (like warden subassult) and we give up on implosion.Gepe, Dunmer MagSorc Pact Grand Overlord | Gaepe, Bosmer MagSorc Dominion General
If you see edits on my replies: typos. English isn't my main language3 -
Ranger209✭✭✭✭✭There is one proposal I would like to make. To make amplitude more consistent and more impactful all over the fight.
If we were to just increase the maximum value, it could become too good in some situations.
But the floor could be raised to prevent it from becoming irrelevant on low health.
100-90%: 10% damage
89-70% : 9% damage
69-50% : 8% damage
49-30% : 7% damage
29-10% : 6% damage
9-0% : 5% damage
This way the damage would be more consistent, without raising its potential and without making the loss of Implosion seem so impactful on low health.
It also would not be too strong. Because some other classes for example get 8% damage all the time.
I agree with this wholeheartedly. When comparing burst to sustain, especially in pvp, they can not just be equal amounts of damage to consider them equal. Sustain should be overall more damage than its burst counterpart to be equal in value. Especially when that burst is at the 20% health threshold or less for the mob being attacked.1 -
Ranger209✭✭✭✭✭LiquidPony wrote: »LiquidPony wrote: »There is one proposal I would like to make. To make amplitude more consistent and more impactful all over the fight.
If we were to just increase the maximum value, it could become too good in some situations.
But the floor could be raised to prevent it from becoming irrelevant on low health.
100-90%: 10% damage
89-70% : 9% damage
69-50% : 8% damage
49-30% : 7% damage
29-10% : 6% damage
9-0% : 5% damage
This way the damage would be more consistent, without raising its potential and without making the loss of Implosion seem so impactful on low health.
It also would not be too strong. Because some other classes for example get 8% damage all the time.
But that "8% all the time" is a Minor buff that can be had from other sources.
And the sacrifise for doing so makes you loose out elsewhere.
Slimecraw is the least intrusive way of gaining it. But don't you feel like a fool, using 2 set pieces to gain a buff that other classes get for free and knowing, they could slot 2 true damage sets there, thus still outperforming you ? I do.
The only other way is using a healing staff with combat prayer, which costs you elsewhere.
You must admit, gaining minor Berserk on your main nuke that everyone uses, which at the same time is the hardest hitting burst ability in the game, is very convenient and quite ridiculous at the same time if you think about it.
From a PvE perspective, everyone is already getting Minor Berserk in most content and adding a constant 5%+ damage modifier to sorcs would be ridiculously OP.
I understand where you're coming from in PvP but I don't think this suggestion works for general game balance. It's far too strong.
You're not simply adding it, you are replacing implosion with it. Subtract the typical implosion damage from what you expect this damage increase to be and tell me what you have. Being you are replacing execute burst with sustain you should be left with a somewhat significant number.0 -
Faulgor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »Implosion was a full random.
When I playing sorc my implosion fire once at month. When others sorc just heroic slash me their implosion hit 12k when I am 23k Hp build. Screw it, new passive much better
It was only random if you decided not to use it. I had a 36% chance to proc it. It was glorious combined with VD. With the changes, both of the inofficial class spammables (Steel Tornado and Blood Craze) are more effective if used by other StamClasses.
No idea how you think you had a 36% chance but you might think that since you had 6 different sources of damage that you had a 36% chance. That is not how percentage chance works. You still had a only 6% chance per source.
If you have 6 damage ticks per second, then each second you have roughly 31% chance to proc at least once (assuming the target's HP remains within range).
Anyway, didn't like the old implosion. Free damage coming out of nowhere. Not fun for the victim, not fun for the sorc (me). The new passive made me sigh, but for geeky reasons rather than player reasons. Why discrete function with branching?
That is still not how it works, you still only have a 6% chance per.
Of course. But we aren't looking at individual hits, we're looking at time intervals (in the execute phase) with a certain number of hits, or sets of hits.
If you roll a dice 6 times, you can calculate how often to expect any given number to show up at least once. If we think of a 1 as our Implosion proc, the chance for a miss with any individual dice is 5/6, or 0.83. 0.83^6 gives us the odds of not rolling a 1 in 6 throws of the dice, which is 0.335, or 33.5%. If we subtract this from 100%, we now know that when we roll a set of 6 dice, 66.5% of those sets containt at least one ... 1.
Likewise, if 6 hits that can proc Implosion hit the target, the odds for not getting a proc are 0.94^6, or 0.69, which means in 31% of these 6-hit attacks, Implosion procs at least once.Alandrol Sul: He's making another Numidium?!?
Vivec: Worse, buddy. They're buying it.2 -
LiquidPony✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭LiquidPony wrote: »LiquidPony wrote: »There is one proposal I would like to make. To make amplitude more consistent and more impactful all over the fight.
If we were to just increase the maximum value, it could become too good in some situations.
But the floor could be raised to prevent it from becoming irrelevant on low health.
100-90%: 10% damage
89-70% : 9% damage
69-50% : 8% damage
49-30% : 7% damage
29-10% : 6% damage
9-0% : 5% damage
This way the damage would be more consistent, without raising its potential and without making the loss of Implosion seem so impactful on low health.
It also would not be too strong. Because some other classes for example get 8% damage all the time.
But that "8% all the time" is a Minor buff that can be had from other sources.
And the sacrifise for doing so makes you loose out elsewhere.
Slimecraw is the least intrusive way of gaining it. But don't you feel like a fool, using 2 set pieces to gain a buff that other classes get for free and knowing, they could slot 2 true damage sets there, thus still outperforming you ? I do.
The only other way is using a healing staff with combat prayer, which costs you elsewhere.
You must admit, gaining minor Berserk on your main nuke that everyone uses, which at the same time is the hardest hitting burst ability in the game, is very convenient and quite ridiculous at the same time if you think about it.
From a PvE perspective, everyone is already getting Minor Berserk in most content and adding a constant 5%+ damage modifier to sorcs would be ridiculously OP.
I understand where you're coming from in PvP but I don't think this suggestion works for general game balance. It's far too strong.
You're not simply adding it, you are replacing implosion with it. Subtract the typical implosion damage from what you expect this damage increase to be and tell me what you have. Being you are replacing execute burst with sustain you should be left with a somewhat significant number.
Not really.
The existing Amplitude, as-is (10%-1% damage bonus from 100%-50% health) is intended to replace Implosion. So for the sake of simplicity let's call that an average damage modifier of 2.5% over the course of a fight.
I'm looking at a Ra Kotu parse here (58k single target) where Implosion did ~1250 DPS. I don't know what is typical ... ~2% of DPS? Less?
If you scale from 10% to 5% over the course of the fight as outlined in this suggestion, you've got half the fight averaging 8% and the other half averaging 6%, so a total average damage modifier of 7%. That is really strong. That's essentially a free unique Minor Berserk that stacks with Minor Berserk. IMO that's way too strong. Maybe scaling from 10% to 5% from 100% health to 50% health would work, but having 5%+ all the time is out of control.Edited by LiquidPony on January 28, 2019 3:45PM0 -
katorga✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭LiquidPony wrote: »LiquidPony wrote: »LiquidPony wrote: »There is one proposal I would like to make. To make amplitude more consistent and more impactful all over the fight.
If we were to just increase the maximum value, it could become too good in some situations.
But the floor could be raised to prevent it from becoming irrelevant on low health.
100-90%: 10% damage
89-70% : 9% damage
69-50% : 8% damage
49-30% : 7% damage
29-10% : 6% damage
9-0% : 5% damage
This way the damage would be more consistent, without raising its potential and without making the loss of Implosion seem so impactful on low health.
It also would not be too strong. Because some other classes for example get 8% damage all the time.
But that "8% all the time" is a Minor buff that can be had from other sources.
That is really strong. That's essentially a free unique Minor Berserk that stacks with Minor Berserk. IMO that's way too strong. Maybe scaling from 10% to 5% from 100% health to 50% health would work, but having 5%+ all the time is out of control.
Oh please. How many classes have passives to increase damage? Warden, 2% every skill, 6% frost plus minor berserk. Nightblade have minor berserk 100% of the time as well as minor force. Amplitude on a Sorc actually brings them up to par.
Five bucks says Necromancer is getting "implosion".0 -
Teeba_Shei✭✭✭✭✭
✭There is one proposal I would like to make. To make amplitude more consistent and more impactful all over the fight.
If we were to just increase the maximum value, it could become too good in some situations.
But the floor could be raised to prevent it from becoming irrelevant on low health.
100-90%: 10% damage
89-70% : 9% damage
69-50% : 8% damage
49-30% : 7% damage
29-10% : 6% damage
9-0% : 5% damage
This way the damage would be more consistent, without raising its potential and without making the loss of Implosion seem so impactful on low health.
It also would not be too strong. Because some other classes for example get 8% damage all the time.
Even if they didn't buff it as much as this guys suggestion they should at least make it so its a minimum of 5% damage when target is below 50%.1 -
BaylorCorvette✭✭✭✭✭Implosion as it sits on live right now is a little OP for it being free. However at the same time it certainly isn't reliable execute for PvP. I like the idea of the new change, however the damage boost it brings in PvP after Battle Spirit isn't as great as it would appear.
The way StamSorc sits on live right now is pretty good (My main PvP class has been StamSorc for 2 years), what it is missing is half of its class passives not even being applicable to StamSorc. Furthermore StamSorc has a serious lack of Buffs/Debuffs compared to other classes. I'd really like to see Bound Armaments give your next light attack major fracture, or maybe Minor Brutality / Minor Berserk. Take your pick, but most StamSorcs I know (myself included) still do not use Bound Armaments.Supreme Leader Corvette - StamSorc
Founder of Dominion Special Forces
YouTube - ESO & Automotive Racing
DC Zerg Busting2 -
Dracane✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
Oh please. How many classes have passives to increase damage? Warden, 2% every skill, 6% frost plus minor berserk. Nightblade have minor berserk 100% of the time as well as minor force. Amplitude on a Sorc actually brings them up to par.
Five bucks says Necromancer is getting "implosion".
Actually, Warden gets 3% damage even for every companion ability slotted.
We have to push those cashshop classes afterall.
I can't wait to see Necromancer..... It will probably reach a new level of jawgaping.Edited by Dracane on January 28, 2019 6:30PMAuri-El is my lord,
Trinimac my ward,
and Magnus my mind.0 -
Wuuffyy✭✭✭✭✭
✭Just know it was the only execute my WW could have but thanks guys! Hope everything you play gets nerfed tooWuuffyy,
WEREWOLF FINALLY GOT A REWORK AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH (sorry I mean... NERF WW, one-bar BAD, DESTROY one-bar builds)
ESO player since 2014 (Xbox and PC for PTS)
-new players, feel free to DM for guidance!1 -
LiquidPony✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭
Oh please. How many classes have passives to increase damage? Warden, 2% every skill, 6% frost plus minor berserk. Nightblade have minor berserk 100% of the time as well as minor force. Amplitude on a Sorc actually brings them up to par.
Five bucks says Necromancer is getting "implosion".
Actually, Warden gets 3% damage even for every companion ability slotted.
We have to push those cashshop classes afterall.
I can't wait to see Necromancer..... It will probably reach a new level of jawgaping.
@katorga Nightblades don't "have" Minor Force, though? Minor Force = Trap, Accelerate, Guard, Twilight Remedy, Medusa, Gryphon's Ferocity, and that new set on the PTS right now. Nightblades do have Minor *Savagery*, but sorcs have Minor Prophecy and Minor Intellect.
And what's missed here is that while Wardens have bonuses to Damage Done (and Magic Damage), they have no passive bonuses that affect weapon damage or spell damage or max magicka/stamina.
Somehow the implication here seems to be that the Warden bonuses are OP, which is laughable considering that Magicka Wardens have largely been considered the worst DD spec in the game for their entire existence. Even stamwardens were mostly trash for half the time they've been around. If ZOS is trying to drum up cash by making DLC-locked classes OP, they're doing a horrible job of it.
And Wardens have to eat up 2 bar slots now for that 100% Minor Berserk uptime. Using those same 2 bar slots on a sorc for Bound Aegis/Bound Armaments gives you an 8% max stat pool increase and either +11% LA damage or Minor Ward and Minor Resolve.
Has anyone here actually tested magsorcs on the PTS? They are hitting extremely hard.1 -
Dracane✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭LiquidPony wrote: »
Oh please. How many classes have passives to increase damage? Warden, 2% every skill, 6% frost plus minor berserk. Nightblade have minor berserk 100% of the time as well as minor force. Amplitude on a Sorc actually brings them up to par.
Five bucks says Necromancer is getting "implosion".
Actually, Warden gets 3% damage even for every companion ability slotted.
We have to push those cashshop classes afterall.
I can't wait to see Necromancer..... It will probably reach a new level of jawgaping.
@katorga Nightblades don't "have" Minor Force, though? Minor Force = Trap, Accelerate, Guard, Twilight Remedy, Medusa, Gryphon's Ferocity, and that new set on the PTS right now. Nightblades do have Minor *Savagery*, but sorcs have Minor Prophecy and Minor Intellect.
And what's missed here is that while Wardens have bonuses to Damage Done (and Magic Damage), they have no passive bonuses that affect weapon damage or spell damage or max magicka/stamina.
Somehow the implication here seems to be that the Warden bonuses are OP, which is laughable considering that Magicka Wardens have largely been considered the worst DD spec in the game for their entire existence. Even stamwardens were mostly trash for half the time they've been around. If ZOS is trying to drum up cash by making DLC-locked classes OP, they're doing a horrible job of it.
And Wardens have to eat up 2 bar slots now for that 100% Minor Berserk uptime. Using those same 2 bar slots on a sorc for Bound Aegis/Bound Armaments gives you an 8% max stat pool increase and either +11% LA damage or Minor Ward and Minor Resolve.
Has anyone here actually tested magsorcs on the PTS? They are hitting extremely hard.
I have already told you that 2% spell damage is miles away from 3% damage done.
It's not even close. So if you think 3% damage per skill is fair, it's not.
Warden may not be so great in pve dps which is due to their abilities exclusively. In pvp it's a different story. The soul assault of my warden deals 28% more damage only thanks to their overtunes passives.Auri-El is my lord,
Trinimac my ward,
and Magnus my mind.2 -
Wuuffyy✭✭✭✭✭
✭Well it’s not rng. So that’s something.
Yea now it’s just trash but you know. Guaranteed trash.Wuuffyy,
WEREWOLF FINALLY GOT A REWORK AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH (sorry I mean... NERF WW, one-bar BAD, DESTROY one-bar builds)
ESO player since 2014 (Xbox and PC for PTS)
-new players, feel free to DM for guidance!3 -
LiquidPony✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭LiquidPony wrote: »
Oh please. How many classes have passives to increase damage? Warden, 2% every skill, 6% frost plus minor berserk. Nightblade have minor berserk 100% of the time as well as minor force. Amplitude on a Sorc actually brings them up to par.
Five bucks says Necromancer is getting "implosion".
Actually, Warden gets 3% damage even for every companion ability slotted.
We have to push those cashshop classes afterall.
I can't wait to see Necromancer..... It will probably reach a new level of jawgaping.
@katorga Nightblades don't "have" Minor Force, though? Minor Force = Trap, Accelerate, Guard, Twilight Remedy, Medusa, Gryphon's Ferocity, and that new set on the PTS right now. Nightblades do have Minor *Savagery*, but sorcs have Minor Prophecy and Minor Intellect.
And what's missed here is that while Wardens have bonuses to Damage Done (and Magic Damage), they have no passive bonuses that affect weapon damage or spell damage or max magicka/stamina.
Somehow the implication here seems to be that the Warden bonuses are OP, which is laughable considering that Magicka Wardens have largely been considered the worst DD spec in the game for their entire existence. Even stamwardens were mostly trash for half the time they've been around. If ZOS is trying to drum up cash by making DLC-locked classes OP, they're doing a horrible job of it.
And Wardens have to eat up 2 bar slots now for that 100% Minor Berserk uptime. Using those same 2 bar slots on a sorc for Bound Aegis/Bound Armaments gives you an 8% max stat pool increase and either +11% LA damage or Minor Ward and Minor Resolve.
Has anyone here actually tested magsorcs on the PTS? They are hitting extremely hard.
I have already told you that 2% spell damage is miles away from 3% damage done. It's not even close. So if you think 3% damage per skill is fair, it's not.
Warden may not be so great in pve dps which is due to their abilities exclusively. In pvp it's a different story. The soul assault of my warden deals 28% more damage only thanks to their overtunes passives.
Comparing single skills or passives 1:1 is naive and pointless. You have to look a the classes holistically.
I could say that Sorcerers are clearly superior to Wardens because Sorcerers have an execute and Wardens do not, but that would obviously be silly.2 -
Dracane✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭LiquidPony wrote: »LiquidPony wrote: »
Oh please. How many classes have passives to increase damage? Warden, 2% every skill, 6% frost plus minor berserk. Nightblade have minor berserk 100% of the time as well as minor force. Amplitude on a Sorc actually brings them up to par.
Five bucks says Necromancer is getting "implosion".
Actually, Warden gets 3% damage even for every companion ability slotted.
We have to push those cashshop classes afterall.
I can't wait to see Necromancer..... It will probably reach a new level of jawgaping.
@katorga Nightblades don't "have" Minor Force, though? Minor Force = Trap, Accelerate, Guard, Twilight Remedy, Medusa, Gryphon's Ferocity, and that new set on the PTS right now. Nightblades do have Minor *Savagery*, but sorcs have Minor Prophecy and Minor Intellect.
And what's missed here is that while Wardens have bonuses to Damage Done (and Magic Damage), they have no passive bonuses that affect weapon damage or spell damage or max magicka/stamina.
Somehow the implication here seems to be that the Warden bonuses are OP, which is laughable considering that Magicka Wardens have largely been considered the worst DD spec in the game for their entire existence. Even stamwardens were mostly trash for half the time they've been around. If ZOS is trying to drum up cash by making DLC-locked classes OP, they're doing a horrible job of it.
And Wardens have to eat up 2 bar slots now for that 100% Minor Berserk uptime. Using those same 2 bar slots on a sorc for Bound Aegis/Bound Armaments gives you an 8% max stat pool increase and either +11% LA damage or Minor Ward and Minor Resolve.
Has anyone here actually tested magsorcs on the PTS? They are hitting extremely hard.
I have already told you that 2% spell damage is miles away from 3% damage done. It's not even close. So if you think 3% damage per skill is fair, it's not.
Warden may not be so great in pve dps which is due to their abilities exclusively. In pvp it's a different story. The soul assault of my warden deals 28% more damage only thanks to their overtunes passives.
Comparing single skills or passives 1:1 is naive and pointless. You have to look a the classes holistically.
I could say that Sorcerers are clearly superior to Wardens because Sorcerers have an execute and Wardens do not, but that would obviously be silly.
I compare what matters to me. And for my build, playstyle and environment, Warden does everything better. If that is pointless for you, I understand. For me however it's the only argument that matters, as I have to reach the maximum potential for myself.
And it's not just soul assault. Everything is better on Warden.Edited by Dracane on January 28, 2019 7:45PMAuri-El is my lord,
Trinimac my ward,
and Magnus my mind.2 -
katorga✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I think every pvp Sorс wants to return to the implosion because the new amplitude is very weak,it is practically nothing in pvp when the enemy is not full HP,Sorс is not a ganker
It’s actually great for up front pressure where as implosion, while occasionally great, was unpredictable. And mag sorcs have a great execute (minus the fact that it can literally be dodged at two different times). Stam sorcs on the other hand need a lot of work and while implosion is a loss, the fact is if they’re ever going to be brought up to the range of other classes they’ll need their own execute and spammable and then implosion isn’t matter.
This. Magicka doesn't have that much consistently ticking damage to really leverage implosion in pvp. Stam sorc does, and generally builds to maximize that. On magicka, amplitude is a buff, not as much on stam. But as a buff, I think it only moves the bar closer to other classes, not exceeding them.0 -
katorga✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭LiquidPony wrote: »
Oh please. How many classes have passives to increase damage? Warden, 2% every skill, 6% frost plus minor berserk. Nightblade have minor berserk 100% of the time as well as minor force. Amplitude on a Sorc actually brings them up to par.
Five bucks says Necromancer is getting "implosion".
Actually, Warden gets 3% damage even for every companion ability slotted.
We have to push those cashshop classes afterall.
I can't wait to see Necromancer..... It will probably reach a new level of jawgaping.
@katorga Nightblades don't "have" Minor Force, though? Minor Force = Trap, Accelerate, Guard, Twilight Remedy, Medusa, Gryphon's Ferocity, and that new set on the PTS right now. Nightblades do have Minor *Savagery*, but sorcs have Minor Prophecy and Minor Intellect.
Ok, NB and Templar have 83% of the minor force buff as a passive, which can stack with minor/major force, if you want to be that particular.
Like I said, amplitude is not outside the bounds of what other classes get.
0 -
LiquidPony✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭LiquidPony wrote: »
Oh please. How many classes have passives to increase damage? Warden, 2% every skill, 6% frost plus minor berserk. Nightblade have minor berserk 100% of the time as well as minor force. Amplitude on a Sorc actually brings them up to par.
Five bucks says Necromancer is getting "implosion".
Actually, Warden gets 3% damage even for every companion ability slotted.
We have to push those cashshop classes afterall.
I can't wait to see Necromancer..... It will probably reach a new level of jawgaping.
@katorga Nightblades don't "have" Minor Force, though? Minor Force = Trap, Accelerate, Guard, Twilight Remedy, Medusa, Gryphon's Ferocity, and that new set on the PTS right now. Nightblades do have Minor *Savagery*, but sorcs have Minor Prophecy and Minor Intellect.
Ok, NB and Templar have 83% of the minor force buff as a passive, which can stack with minor/major force, if you want to be that particular.
Like I said, amplitude is not outside the bounds of what other classes get.
Hemorrhage and Piercing Spear are the same value as Miinor Force: +10% critical damage done.
And you're right, Amplitude is not outside the bounds of what other classes get. However, the proposed changed to it would be the most OP passive in the game because it has no requirements. Wardens need to load their bars with Animal Companion skills to stack the % Damage Done modifiers.0 -
Dracane✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭LiquidPony wrote: »LiquidPony wrote: »
Oh please. How many classes have passives to increase damage? Warden, 2% every skill, 6% frost plus minor berserk. Nightblade have minor berserk 100% of the time as well as minor force. Amplitude on a Sorc actually brings them up to par.
Five bucks says Necromancer is getting "implosion".
Actually, Warden gets 3% damage even for every companion ability slotted.
We have to push those cashshop classes afterall.
I can't wait to see Necromancer..... It will probably reach a new level of jawgaping.
@katorga Nightblades don't "have" Minor Force, though? Minor Force = Trap, Accelerate, Guard, Twilight Remedy, Medusa, Gryphon's Ferocity, and that new set on the PTS right now. Nightblades do have Minor *Savagery*, but sorcs have Minor Prophecy and Minor Intellect.
Ok, NB and Templar have 83% of the minor force buff as a passive, which can stack with minor/major force, if you want to be that particular.
Like I said, amplitude is not outside the bounds of what other classes get.
Hemorrhage and Piercing Spear are the same value as Miinor Force: +10% critical damage done.
And you're right, Amplitude is not outside the bounds of what other classes get. However, the proposed changed to it would be the most OP passive in the game because it has no requirements. Wardens need to load their bars with Animal Companion skills to stack the % Damage Done modifiers.
Even with just 2 animal companions, Warden has more average damage than what the current version of Amplitude does. With 3 animal companions, Warden has more average damage than Amplitude after the proposed change.
Afterall, I merely proposed. If Amplitude remains as it is, I will still be grateful. It's been 2 years since Sorcerer got something else than nerfs. We are starved for it and will take even the smallest of things at this point. Nightblades and Wardens will no longer surpass as greatly.Edited by Dracane on January 28, 2019 9:45PMAuri-El is my lord,
Trinimac my ward,
and Magnus my mind.1 -
Valrien✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭I like the concept, but I think it needs to either decrease half as fast, or add twice as much bonus damage for it to be a good buff to SorcerersValrien Dravic -- Level 50 Dunmeri Sorcerer (EP)
Garahel Dravic -- Level 50 Bosmeri Nightblade (EP)Tamriel Unlimited was a mistake. One Tamriel was a bigger mistake3 -
Tannus15✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I think the new passive is significantly better than the old one.
The only change I would make is to make the 10% buff be from 100% - 95% and then scale everything accordingly so the 1% buff is only the last 5% of health.
With 3 blood thirsty as the passive drops off into uselessness BT should kick in to compensate.1 -
Dracane✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Since today's pledge was Falkreath Hold, I decided to visit my friend Domihaus the Bloody-Horned for assistance.
I will try to show you, why the new Amplitude passive is going to be a buff for all Sorcerers, of any role, any allegiance.
I was fighting him and his adds on veteran Hard Mode from 100% to 0%, which resulted in a great long term test. This was done on my tank build with 40k health and 40k magicka. Implosion only scales with my own maximum health, so this test is actually in favor of Implosion. Implosion tooltip on my tankbuild is pretty much 26k, while the tooltip on an average 16k health DD is 13k. Very convenient as you will soon see.
Over the entire 10 minutes fight, Implosion proced 38 times. Which is far beyond what a DD will see in any competitive scenario. Thus, it dealt 555k damage. If I would have done this on a traditional DD Sorcerer, the damage would have been pretty much halfed because Implosion is only half as strong with 16-18k health.
If we take away those 555k damage, we are left with 13,271,00 damage afflicted, roughly. The new Amplitude passive will grant us an average of 5% as it stands at the moment where I am making this post. We can just add those 5% and are left with 13,934,550 damage or 663k more damage in total or 108k more damage than what Implosion dealt in this Implosion favored scenario. Keep in mind, a DD who would have fought this exact same battle, would have only dealt 277,500 damage with Implosion. In theory anyway.
So yea, I am pretty excited for this change and am glad that Implosion is gone. It was annoying for everyone who this was used against and also a wasted/niche passive for many Sorcerers.
Auri-El is my lord,
Trinimac my ward,
and Magnus my mind.2
